Dole Waster

K.O.T.R

Can any one tell me how many workers are sick of the DOLE WASTER who have never done a days work in the lives but yet can spend all day every day in the bookies and the pub. When I myself have being working for the past 17 years and can't even go out 1 night a week. I look at my pay slip every week and see how much tax I pay and for what a load of waster to get money. Which must of these live with there girlfriens who have a concil house and around 2 to 5 kids. Does this not look wierd a single women (well there thats what they the the socailwlfare) with all thes kids. 2 question should be asked of them 1. ARE they on the game 2. do they sleep with any one how buys then a drink.

Don't get never wrong here the local concil know this is going on and do notting about it. Why do you ask cause if they did It would make there lives and work a bit harder.

I say its about time that the workes and Tax payers say no more to this.
Do you know that if a worker lose there job and there partner is working that you will only get around half of what the dole is and your partner will have to pay more taxes aslong as you are on the dole that's if you get it.

What does every one else think of this?????

Kevin
K.O.T.R
knights_of_the_republic@hotmail.com

Goodshape

I think we're very fortunite in this country to have such a good social welfare system. While I don't agree with those who abuse it for the sake of an 'easy life' (which, in fairness, I doubt it is in many cases) I wouldn't ever want to do away with it entirely.

I also think it's a very easy target for the 'my tax is too high' brigade, and I'd doubt that the actual dole itself is all that much of a strain on your paycheck. It's just never nice to see (or think you see) the other guy getting the easy ride.

Hobbes

Try living on the dole for a while I think you will find that its not as lovely as you make it out to be.

Also try looking into what you can claim back off the tax man.

K.O.T.R

I do understand that there are some poeple on the dole who don't want to be there and yes I do feel sorry for them as they once might have had a job. But what I don't argee with is these people that leave school and dont work a day in there life's. Why should they get the same amount every week and in some cases even more that a worker who is force to go on the dole.

Why I go on about this partis quite simple, You lokk at any Local Concil and they will tell you that they are in the RED due to rent not being paid. How the hell can some one on long term dole who only pay's around 20 to 35 euros not afford to paid this. If the goverment spend the same amount it does going after workers who might have a second job doing the door of your local nite club or driving you home after it to pay taxs. They might find that lot of these poeple or better of than you or even me.

And no I have never being on the dole or never will. There is plenty of work out there but if I did ever lose my job I would have to talk nicely to the bank about my house and car.

Yes this country is to good for social walfare, a women on single mothers allowance with 3 kids and her boy friend living with her on the Q.T have a total of around 27,000 each year in pay out's and thats before we add the medical cards.

How much do you make after TAX for working 39hrs a week and can you go to the bookis and the pub every night of the week.

Hobbes

K.O.T.R wrote:

Why should they get the same amount every week and in some cases even more that a worker who is force to go on the dole.

If you were paying your dues in your wages then you will get more money then the average joe who has never done a toss of work.

They might find that lot of these poeple or better of than you or even me.

If they are then they are getting money through other means or you have a very low expectation of how much money to make.

And no I have never being on the dole or never will.

I've been on it twice. First time for nearly a year and ended up on a FAS course, the second time for 2 months. It is not a way to live. If you plan right you could probably survive but you wouldn't be able to do anything the extra cash could bring in.

a women on single mothers allowance with 3 kids and her boy friend living with her on the Q.T have a total of around 27,000 each year in pay out's and thats before we add the medical cards.

Try having three children. I'd love to see you try and go drinking every night with three children and 27,000. Heck I make much more then that and I have one child and he gets a fair chunk of my pay and then you have to factor in babysitter, etc.

Zombrex

K.O.T.R wrote:

Yes this country is to good for social walfare, a women on single mothers allowance with 3 kids and her boy friend living with her on the Q.T have a total of around 27,000 each year in pay out's and thats before we add the medical cards.

Actually they would earn around €25,000 and if you think that is a lot of money to support 2 adults and 3 children with a load left over for living it up with drinking and gambling you know very very little about the cost of living in Ireland.

You simply will not be able to survive on that money alone, so if you are unfortunate enought to find yourself unemployed with 3 kids to support you better hope to God you can get some support from your family or friends.

http://www.welfare.ie/publications/sw19/sw19.html

K.O.T.R wrote:

How much do you make after TAX for working 39hrs a week and can you go to the bookis and the pub every night of the week.

This is nonsense. If you know someone who is going to the bookies and pub every night of the week blowing loads of money they aren't on social welfare. I am an IT professional, I make more than €25,000 and I don't have 3 kids to support and I can't got to the pub more than once a week.

BuffyBot

I suggest you get a better job then

Zombrex

BuffyBot wrote:

I suggest you get a better job then

I'm trying, I'm trying :v:

rubadub

Wicknight wrote:

This is nonsense. If you know someone who is going to the bookies and pub every night of the week blowing loads of money they aren't on social welfare.

It is not nonsense, just means they may be doing nixers. The dole is so high in this country that you only have to do a little extra work on the side to get the same as minimum wage. The guys who can be on the dole and in the pub every night may have some nice little earner. I know guys who came around looking to chop tops off trees quoting €600 for the job (2 guys to take a 1/2 day and dispose of all waste). All these labouring jobs pay an absolute fortune these days. Plumbing, painting, carpentry, tiling etc. I just look at the window cleaners that come around our industrial estate, €50-60 a pop, then the place across the road sees them and gets it too. Say they do 2 windows a day, 5 days a week, thats €500 cash in hand, the equivalent of €30k+ in a normal taxed job, then the extra dole money and they are doing very well.

Zombrex

rubadub wrote:

It is not nonsense, just means they may be doing nixers.

Thats what I am saying, they are getting the money somewhere else. And thats a different issue.

I'm sure the drug dealers on the dole are probably driving around in Mercs, but that isn't really a reflection of the value of the dole.

The dole itself is not "so high", it is barely enough to survive on, before you bring in the issue of children. It is only a bit of extra money if you are illegally screwing the system in some other way.

You can't really say (I mean in general, not saying you are saying this) that people on the dole are all going to have illegal side jobs so we should lower the dole cause its too high when you factor in this illegal money.

The dole itself does not allow a couple with 3 kids to support to head down the pub every night and blow it all on drink. Unless they are happy to let the 3 kids starve the next week.

BuffyBot

Wicknight wrote:

I'm trying, I'm trying :v:

I meant our esteemed OP who seems to have very little to do :v:

rubadub

Wicknight wrote:

The dole itself is not "so high", it is barely enough to survive on, before you bring in the issue of children.

It is relatively high compared to other countries. I agree it is barely enough to survive on. What I mean by so high is that many will not bother to work, esp. women who may only be able to work part time due to kids. I think the gap is more these days, but a few years back the dole and the min wage was not much different, and min wage is no longer taxed.

Wicknight wrote:

You can't really say (I mean in general, not saying you are saying this) that people on the dole are all going to have illegal side jobs so we should lower the dole cause its too high when you factor in this illegal money.

Agreed. But illegal nixers should be clamped down on. The illegal working dole scrounger is stealing MY money that I paid in tax.
Sitting at home all day is boring as hell, I think a lot will do some little job now and then out of sheer boredom. I do not believe in money for nothing. There should be some jobs the government could set up.

Snickers Man

I think the OP should be forced to watch a DVD of Alan Bleasdale's series 'Boys from the Blackstuff' so that he/she could see another face of people trying to survive on the dole in a recession.

As somebody else said: if you think it's that cushy, off you bloody go. I was on the dole myself for nearly a year in the 1980s, following which I emigrated. But I'm all better now.

Taught me one thing. Many immigrants,in fact I would say most, are reluctant ones. so when they get faced with the 'Why don't they become more Irish than we are within six months of arriving without a word of English?' argument favoured by the 'integrationists' it only builds up resentment.

Just be glad you are paying your own way and paying off your house too.

The dole is a horrid place to be.

Zombrex

K_O_T_R wrote:

First off all I have being married for the past 14 years, 3 kids ranging from 5 to 12. I have two cars and a new 4 bedroom house.
So I doubt you are struggling to raise your 3 kids on €25,000 a year now are you. But that means notting as I have worked for every think I have, so don't tell me how much it cost to raise a kid in this Ireland where we are screwed by every one.. :mad:

If you have enought money to raise 3 children, have two cars and a 4 bedroom house and you still think it is hard going, imagine what it is like to have to support 2 adults and raise 3 children on €25,000. Because I would imagine you make a lot more than that.

K_O_T_R wrote:

But this is my point the minute some one stands up and states the facts about waster and people you bleed our state they try to shut them up.

You stated that a couple on the dole with 3 children earning approx €25,000 (you claim €27,000) have enough money to be going down the pub every night of the week and blowing it all in the bookies. As I said before, this is nonsense. €27,000 a year would be barely enought to feed and clothe 3 children, before you get onto feeding and clothing yourself and your partner.

K_O_T_R wrote:

But what I won't stand for is people telling me How bad the dole is.

If you have children to support the dole is bad. In fact it is horrible. But if you don't want people telling you how bad the dole is maybe you shouldn't come on a discussion board spouting nonsense about how great being on the dole is.

K_O_T_R wrote:

If it's that bad why is there some many still on it and don't even look for job's and this is o.k.

There are hardly anyone still on the dole. Long term unemployment is at record lows in this country (2% I think). The only people on the long term dole at the moment are people with serious soical or mental problems and the chronically unemployable. That an single parents who cannot work and raise young children. I am sure there are some wasters claiming the dole because it is easier than working, (drug addicts spring to mind) but I have never seen any evidence that this is more than a handful or that it is in anyway a serious drain on the resources of the benefit system

K_O_T_R wrote:

I have lived in the North Side of Cork city for must of my life and see it every day. People on the dole going to the pub and bookies every day. O.K I know that not every one does this but what does the social do about the ones that do. Not a thing even if you go in a give a statement they will still look the other way.

Well firstly I would point out that someone on the dole can do what ever the feck they want with the money. If they don't want to eat that week and would rather blow it all on the horses I really don't give a crap. You can't stop people being stupid. If they are spending the babies food money on drink or gambling report them to the police for child abuse.

Secondly I am a bit tired of these "Sure I saw it with my own eyes" type stories of social welfare abuse. That is how the ridiculous stores of the asylum seekers driving new cars and getting mobile phones and hair cuts of the social welfare started, all of which were nonsense. Do you even know if these random punters were actually on the dole in the first place? Or that they actually placed massive bets when they went into the bookies?

K_O_T_R wrote:

Will at least one thing I do now I have hit a soft spot and this is I would say my last posting as my old log on has being banned because some one does not like what I write.

You fight the power!

TerrorFirmer

Yes these people are out there. Not as common as you think and by and large most of them don't live glamourous lifestyles as you suggest but there are alot of them taking the state and the tax payers for a ride.

Funny story, I was in work (I work in community services) and I happened to see records of a woman I know. She's down as a single, unemployed mother with a kid. I know for a fact she has a boyfriend for over 5 years, lives in a nice house, has plenty money and was even planning buying a house abroad.

And she's still claiming from the state.

Some people are *****. unfortunately. But trust me, one look at the majority of the people on the dole and by god I'm glad I am not them.

The dole is alot of money for doing nothing but at the same time not alot of money to do anything.

Sleepy

MobileInfantry wrote:

Funny story, I was in work (I work in community services) and I happened to see records of a woman I know. She's down as a single, unemployed mother with a kid. I know for a fact she has a boyfriend for over 5 years, lives in a nice house, has plenty money and was even planning buying a house abroad.

And she's still claiming from the state.

Did you report her?

TerrorFirmer

Sleepy wrote:

Did you report her?

Nope, I know her way too well unfortunately...... And yes, I know by not reporting stuff like this I'm letting slip the very things I'd be giving out about. But this case, just can't....:o

biko

At least say something to her. That's your pension she is using up!

Zombrex

MobileInfantry wrote:

you suggest but there are alot of them taking the state and the tax payers for a ride.

Define "a lot" ... so far you seem to know of one.

MobileInfantry wrote:

She's down as a single, unemployed mother with a kid. I know for a fact she has a boyfriend for over 5 years, lives in a nice house, has plenty money and was even planning buying a house abroad.

She owns the house? She is buying the house abroad? Are you sure about that, you sure it isn't the boyfriend is doing this. Where does she get the money, because you can't buy a house abroad no the dole?

MobileInfantry wrote:

And she's still claiming from the state.

If she isn't working and has a child she is entitled to claim the dole. Because he boyfriend is a bit well off doesn't change that.

TerrorFirmer

Wicknight wrote:

If she isn't working and has a child she is entitled to claim the dole. Because he boyfriend is a bit well off doesn't change that.

It is illegal when she's claiming one parent family allowance and claims she is single for the pat 5 years when she quite frankly hasn't.

Hobbes

MobileInfantry wrote:

It is illegal when she's claiming one parent family allowance and claims she is single for the pat 5 years when she quite frankly hasn't.

Not illegal anymore, or wont be soon.

Still quite a jump from that to out boozing every night.

magpie

Presumably in these days of economic boom there are very few people who want to work who cannot get a job of some description? The services industry is crying out for staff (hence the need to import them from abroad).

The dole is about €134 a week for a single male? No offence, but you can live quite comfortably on that, especially as has been suggested, if you top it up with an occasional nixer. I was on the dole briefly in the UK in the 90s and got £35 a week, and that was hard to stretch to anything beyond pretty basic food. And it had the desired effect of making me get off my arse and find a job in order to get a decent lifestyle.

The problem with the dole is that you need to have it in place for those who actually need it when they are faced by hard circumstances beyond their control, and this unfortunately leaves it open to abuse by dossers and scroungers.

The same applies to the system of Council Housing - there are people who absolutely require the assistance of the state owing to family problems, disability, nursing aging relatives etc, but I would question the requirement for able-bodied people who have good jobs to be provided with heavily subsidised housing by the state because of their perceived "class" or background (Working Class) while those who are deemed to be "priviledged" are left to fend for themselves.

The old fashioned definitions of working class, middle class and upper class are redundant as in modern Ireland money talks - a "Working Class" builder can probably earn considerably more than a "Middle Class" accountant. We need to re-examine how the state carries out its social duties and make sure that only those who need support receive it, while those who can make their own way are expected to do so.

Zombrex

MobileInfantry wrote:

It is illegal when she's claiming one parent family allowance and claims she is single for the pat 5 years when she quite frankly hasn't.

Well the One Parent Family Payment isn't the dole, but I am surprised she would be granted this is she is living in a house that isn't her own, since one of the rules of the OPFP is that you cannot co-habiting. I mean what address does she put down on the form? Was she not means tested for the OPFP?

Anyway, this is largely immaterial since it isn't he dole and she is cheating the system rather than living it up on the system

It is important to distinguise between what you actually get and what you get if you are illegally cheating the system.

simu

Wicknight wrote:

Well the One Parent Family Payment isn't the dole, but I am surprised she would be granted this is she is living in a house that isn't her own, since one of the rules of the OPFP is that you cannot co-habiting. I mean what address does she put down on the form? Was she not means tested for the OPFP?

You can't be cohabiting with the child's father but it might be different if it's another man - you could pretend he was your landlord? (not sure)

Hobbes

magpie wrote:

The dole is about €134 a week for a single male? No offence, but you can live quite comfortably on that

If you live at home with your parents maybe.

magpie

If you live at home with your parents maybe.

Or if you live in subsidised Council Housing or if you receive rent allowance.

€134 is quite a lot of money if you don't have to pay rent.

Zombrex

magpie wrote:

Or if you live in subsidised Council Housing or if you receive rent allowance.

€134 is quite a lot of money if you don't have to pay rent.

Not really, unless all you do is sleep and eat.

sovtek

I'm sorry but €134 is crap even if you aren't paying rent.
I think it's funny when people bitch about "dole moles".
Next someone will gasp because some immigrants might be collecting the dole.
That always reminds me of millionare tax loopholes and offshore corporations...oh yeah and business subsidies.

sovtek

simu wrote:

You can't be cohabiting with the child's father but it might be different if it's another man - you could pretend he was your landlord? (not sure)

My ex once got denied because I was living with her and my salary was too high. It didn't matter that we weren't married and that I only had a work permit to remain in Ireland.

magpie

Not really, unless all you do is sleep and eat.

What else do you suggest you should be subsidised to do on the dole? A night at the opera perhaps? :rolleyes:

Round my way its common enough to see guys queuing for the post office at 9.00 then going stright into the early house, so presumably there's a few quid left over after buying gruel.

I'm sorry but €134 is crap even if you aren't paying rent.

How much do you think the dole should be then?

Hobbes

magpie wrote:

What else do you suggest you should be subsidised to do on the dole? A night at the opera perhaps? :rolleyes:

Well the orginal poster was claiming with the dole they could go drinking every day. Certainly not the case.

Round my way its common enough to see guys queuing for the post office at 9.00 then going stright into the early house, so presumably there's a few quid left over after buying gruel.

Somewhat question this as well because if they had an ounce of cop on they would know they could buy much more drink at the off license then bring thier friends back to the subsidised housing.

How much do you think the dole should be then?

It should be enough to live on and thats it. It should not allow you to go drinking every night and currently doesn't. The objective is to give incentive to get back to or to keep looking for work. Not to sit on your ass.

Again this is getting changed to stop people dossing.

BuffyBot

Round my way its common enough to see guys queuing for the post office at 9.00 then going stright into the early house, so presumably there's a few quid left over after buying gruel.

Well then, it must be representative of the masses...

TerrorFirmer

It's actually more then 134. It's 148.10 or something very similar, dependant of your situation and family obviously though. the OPFP is a bit higher, 168 or so, again dependant on your family make up.

And for those that say its crap, its alot for doing nothing. IMO it should be way lower - just barely enough to pay rent and buy basic foodstuff. As it is, it's generous for what it is - doing nothing. It's considerably lower in the UK.

Although in fairness I definately don't think anyone on the dole is out drinking every night and if they are, it certainly isn't dole money they use

gurramok

Maybe it's not relevant but i do know of one man who was one of about 400 odd who after working 25 yrs in a factory job was let go when the factory shut its gates and is now on the dole.
He and at least 50% of his former colleagues are all over the 50yr age bracket, most still on the dole for about 4 yrs now.

What has happened is that many drifted into alcohol, gambling, whatever as they got depressed at losing a job after such a length of time, opportunties for retraining were not offered from FAS/etc due to their age profile plus many employers would not touch them due to their perceived old age and lack of experience as their old occupation was made redundant.

It doesnt help that most of these guys couldn't avail of basic qualifications such as leaving cert before it was made complusory back in the 60s, they joined the local factory once they turned at working age!
Just an example of many a case where the once 'employable' were turned into 'unemployable' by neglect, rather sad really.

Zombrex

MobileInfantry wrote:

And for those that say its crap, its alot for doing nothing.

Coming from a family that at the start was a single parent family, I had a big long rant about the OPFP and your term "doing nothing", After I calmed down a bit I decided I should give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you were not talking about single parents who claim OPFP....

Anyway...

MobileInfantry wrote:

IMO it should be way lower - just barely enough to pay rent and buy basic foodstuff.

In my opinion it is, though with out knowing you personal circumstances I don't know what your cost of living is like. I know I certainly spend a lot more than €7000 a year on food and clothes (and I shop in Penny's ffs)

MobileInfantry wrote:

Although in fairness I definately don't think anyone on the dole is out drinking every night and if they are, it certainly isn't dole money they use

I think everyone can agree on that.

magpie

In my opinion it is, though with out knowing you personal circumstances I don't know what your cost of living is like.

20 fags a day = €30
Case of 20 bottles of beer for consumption while watching Richard & Judy = €20
Pot Noodle, White Bread, Beans, Sausages and Milk to last a week = €40

This leaves you €44, or 11 pints, to be consumed over the course of the week.

Anyone who's on the dole in 2006 is probably not that concerned about clothes shopping, be it Penney's or elsewhere.

Zombrex

magpie wrote:

20 fags a day = €30
Case of 20 bottles of beer for consumption while watching Richard & Judy = €20
Pot Noodle, White Bread, Beans, Sausages and Milk to last a week = €40

This leaves you €44, or 11 pints, to be consumed over the course of the week.

Anyone who's on the dole in 2006 is probably not that concerned about clothes shopping, be it Penney's or elsewhere.

There must be a lot of clothesless, scurvy suffering, jaundice unemployed people around your parts.

Freelancer

Wicknight wrote:

There must be a lot of clothesless, scurvy suffering, jaundice unemployed people around your parts.

Not to mention cold, and how can they watch richard and judy without electricity?

magpie

There must be a lot of clothesless, scurvy suffering, jaundice unemployed people around your parts.

Not to mention cold, and how can they watch richard and judy without electricity?

Whereas in your world the unemployed are all noble Alan Bleasdale types battling the tide of progress with their pride and belief in the Trade Union system that will inevitably let them down yada yada yada. People on the Dole don't tend to be too concerned about their 5 portions of fruit and veg per day. Its more a chips and cereal kind of diet.

As I said in my first post (if you bothered to read it) YES there are some people who require the assistance of the state. There are also people who choose to be on the dole who have quite a comfortable existence living at home with their parents in a Council House - presumably their parents pay the 'leccie - and who have €134 a week to spend on booze/fags or whatever they want.

As for clothing, tracksuits are pretty cheap AFAIK and if you don't have to dress for work what more do you need?

I'm kind of losing track of this argument, as on the one hand the OP was a rabid "shoot all doleys" type and on the other hand you have the forces of righteous indignation led by Wolfie Smith... I mean Wicknight.

I tried to steer a sensible middle ground in my first post (again, try reading it) but this was interpreted by the Binary-Minded PC brigade as "If you're not 100% with us you're 100% against us", and there's no arguing with that logic, is there?

Hobbes

magpie wrote:

20 fags a day = €30
Case of 20 bottles of beer for consumption while watching Richard & Judy = €20
Pot Noodle, White Bread, Beans, Sausages and Milk to last a week = €40

This leaves you €44, or 11 pints, to be consumed over the course of the week.

Anyone who's on the dole in 2006 is probably not that concerned about clothes shopping, be it Penney's or elsewhere.

Oh ok, and that is comfy how exactly? Maybe we have different expectations of what comfy is.

Freelancer

magpie wrote:

Whereas in your world the unemployed are all noble Alan Bleasdale types battling the tide of progress with their pride and belief in the Trade Union system that will inevitably let them down yada yada yada. People on the Dole don't tend to be too concerned about their 5 portions of fruit and veg per day. Its more a chips and cereal kind of diet.

As I said in my first post (if you bothered to read it) YES there are some people who require the assistance of the state. There are also people who choose to be on the dole who have quite a comfortable existence living at home with their parents in a Council House - presumably their parents pay the 'leccie - and who have €134 a week to spend on booze/fags or whatever they want.

As for clothing, tracksuits are pretty cheap AFAIK and if you don't have to dress for work what more do you need?

I'm kind of losing track of this argument, as on the one hand the OP was a rabid "shoot all doleys" type and on the other hand you have the forces of righteous indignation led by Wolfie Smith... I mean Wicknight.

I tried to steer a sensible middle ground in my first post (again, try reading it) but this was interpreted by the Binary-Minded PC brigade as "If you're not 100% with us you're 100% against us", and there's no arguing with that logic, is there?

Horsemanure. You've come here and said "its actually pretty easy to be on the dole and be happy as a pig in sh*t", presented maths to back this up, that took two seconds to destroy, and are now whinging that "I'm the voice of reason"

magpie

Oh ok, and that is comfy how exactly? Maybe we have different expectations of what comfy is.

My mistake, I didn't realise the dole was supposed to provide a comfy existence. I thought it was supposed to stop you dying of starvation if you were unable, though no fault of your own, to find work.

magpie

that took two seconds to destroy,

I must have missed that bit? Was that where Wicknight was suggesting that people on the dole would suffer jaundice if they didn't get the 5 portions of fruit and veg, wheatgrass juice shakes and 25 minutes down the gymn every day?

Have any of you people been on the dole? Have you ever met anyone on the dole?

Frankly your moral highground is teetering on the verge of being patronising to the very people you claim to be defending.

People who choose to be on the dole in 2006, which is any able bodied person without mental infirmity who is capable of any sort of work, choose to hang around the pub and the bookies.

Zombrex

magpie wrote:

I tried to steer a sensible middle ground in my first post (again, try reading it) but this was interpreted by the Binary-Minded PC brigade as "If you're not 100% with us you're 100% against us", and there's no arguing with that logic, is there?

Saying unemployed people only eat chips and ceral, wear tracksuits, and are quite happy and comfortable to live day to day like that with no long term plans for the future is taking the "middle ground" .... ok then ... :rolleyes:

magpie wrote:

My mistake, I didn't realise the dole was supposed to provide a comfy existence.

Its not, so why are you obsessed with saying it does?

magpie wrote:

Frankly your moral highground is teetering on the verge of being patronising to the very people you claim to be defending.

Thats a joke right ...


"People on the Dole don't tend to be too concerned about their 5 portions of fruit and veg per day. Its more a chips and cereal kind of diet."

"tracksuits are pretty cheap AFAIK"

Yes, we are being patronising ...

Freelancer

magpie wrote:

I must have missed that bit? Was that where Wicknight was suggesting that people on the dole would suffer jaundice if they didn't get the 5 portions of fruit and veg, wheatgrass juice shakes and 25 minutes down the gymn every day?

Well on your suggested diet where they don't get any, yes actually they will. And with all those carbs and no protein, malinutrion cold easily set in. Seeing as they haven't been any scurvy outbreaks reported at St James, I'll have to take a punt and suggest they aren't following the Magpie dole diet.

Not to mention your abject failure to account for utilities, or clothes. Pennys and Moore st may be cheap, but in order to not be naked they'll have to spend some money on clothes.

Have any of you people been on the dole? Have you ever met anyone one the dole?

Oh FFS, you're wandering into that Frost report, "I'm middle class and I look down on him", "I know my place". Yes I have been on the dole, I've been made redundant and spent six months off work. Because I was living with my partner I couldn't even claim full benefits. It was pretty grim, and plenty of friends have spent years on the dole.

Frankly your moral highground is teetering on the verge of being patronising to the very people you claim to be defending.

Did I claim the moral highground? I'm just pointing out the rampant absurdity of many of the claims here.

People who choose to be on the dole in 2006, which is any able bodied person without mental infirmity who is capable of any sort of work, choose to hang around the pub and the bookies.

Again a wide sweeping generalisation, without substance or anything to support it. First hand personnally the person I know who is long term unemployed is a teetotalling crusty, unlikely to go to the bookies

TerrorFirmer

Hobbes wrote:

Oh ok, and that is comfy how exactly? Maybe we have different expectations of what comfy is.

It's not comfy as such but it gives you an existance that meets and exceeds your basic needs - which it really shouldn't. It should meet your needs and end there.

The defination of comfortable varies from person to person but money for all your basic needs with a bit left over for whatever you will is what I would call comfortable money for doing nothing to earn what you are receiving.

Of course though as mentioned there are people who through bad luck end up on the Dole and have no wish to remain on it indefinately.....but there are also those that choose to live on the Dole and are happily to remain on it for the forseeable future, and they have that choice because the Dole in Ireland is very generour compared to other states.

And it's alot of these sort of people that wear the tracksuits and eat crappy food. People who end up unemployed through unfortunate circumstances are used to a high living and as such won't fnd it easy to live on the dole.

The people who choose to live on the dole, and are happy with it, do indeed in alot of cases buy cheap food, poor food at that, and wear cheap clothes.

Magpie has some valid points. It's different being someone who was on the dole short term through lack of employment and being someone who chooses to live on the dole.

I know plenty of people on the dole simply because its free money and they arent bothered working. Nice people as they are, their diets are terrible, and their clothes are cheap.

I can't speak for every single person on the dole in Ireland and I know that, I'm just saying nobody here is making 100% correct facts, it all depends on circumstance.

magpie

Its not, so why are you obsessed with saying it does?

Your friend Hobbes said that €134 "hardly provided a comfy existence", I responded by saying "I didn't realise it was supposed to". Once again, try reading all the posts - it might make it easier for you to follow what's going on.

I've been made redundant and spent six months off work. Because I was living with my partner I couldn't even claim full benefits

Well then through no fault of your own were forced to rely on Unemployment Benefit, whereas the people we are discussing here are on Unemployment Assistance, which is a different kettle of fish.

Yes, we are being patronising

You don't seem to have reached the understanding that in the current economic environment of almost 100% employment anyone who has any aspirations to make something of themselves is already in the process of doing so.

Anyone left on the dole is either mentally or physically infirm, in which case they require the state's support, or has made a conscious decision to drop out and lead a life consisting of cans of Dutch Gold, the odd Rasher Sandwich a few rolies adn going to the pub Friday and Saturday nights.

I'll repeat my previous question Wicknight - have you ever been on the dole, or met anyone who was long term unemployed?

I have both been on the dole and led a FÁS Community Employment scheme - all the members of which were quite content to come in to work at 9.30, clock off at 12.00, have a couple of pints on the way home and not have any stress or strain in their life.

Saying unemployed people only eat chips and ceral, wear tracksuits, and are quite happy and comfortable to live day to day like that with no long term plans for the future

You left out the key bit of information which is "people who choose to be unemployed". As a matter of interest what do you think the proifle of the average unemployed person is?

Zombrex

magpie wrote:

Your friend Hobbes said that €134 "hardly provided a comfy existence", I responded by saying "I didn't realise it was supposed to". Once again, try reading all the posts - it might make it easier for you to follow what's going on.

My "friend" Hobbes was responding to this -

magpie wrote:

The dole is about €134 a week for a single male? No offence, but you can live quite comfortably on that
...
€134 is quite a lot of money if you don't have to pay rent
...
so presumably there's a few quid left over after buying gruel.

What was that about reading all the posts .. :rolleyes:

The dole isn't supposed to provide a wonderfully comfortable quality of life and guess what it doesn't.

magpie

What was that about reading all the posts ..

Touché

Once again (I'm starting to feel like Jeremy Paxman here) I'll repeat my previous question Wicknight - have you ever been on the dole, or met anyone who was long term unemployed?

pete

magpie wrote:

Well then through no fault of your own were forced to rely on Unemployment Benefit, whereas the people we are discussing here are on Unemployment Assistance, which is a different kettle of fish.

Yeah it's different kettle alright - UB isn't means tested, UA is.

Anyone left on the dole is either mentally or physically infirm,

Wrong.

Unfit / unable for work = instant disallowance from scratcher. (Three qualifying conditions = available for, fit for & genuinely seeking work)

Unless you're considering people on UA / UB / DB / InvP as being one and the same and all "on the dole", which really isn't very helpful at all.

Zombrex

magpie wrote:

Touché

Once again (I'm starting to feel like Jeremy Paxman here) I'll repeat my previous question Wicknight - have you ever been on the dole, or met anyone who was long term unemployed?

I have never been on the dole (touch wood), and I have known 2 people who were long term unemployed.

Is there a point?