No more Hook, McGurk and Pope.

CJhaughey · 22-01-2006 8:04pm #1

I am sorry to say we have seen the last of these guys commentating on Heineken Cup rugby.
As the IRB has sold the rights for the RWC 2007 to Setanta and the ERC and Derek McGrath has sold the HEC to the same crowd we will no longer have the trio on our screen any longer.
This is a sad day for Irish rugby and I for one intend to write the the above to vent my displeasure.
It is not only a disgrace but ultimately selfish and short-termist many young players grow up watching their heroes and ultimately emulating them.
Where will these future sportsmen and women get their inspiration now?
To the IRB and the ERC, I salute you in your blind devotion to money.

Crash · 22-01-2006 8:30pm

er, i dont think you can blame the IRB or the ERC, i think you can blame RTE for not copping that they should actually have the sense to try and compete as opposed to just letting these things go - its their own stupidity and not either of the above.

RuggieBear · 22-01-2006 8:44pm

RTE has been underpaying for the sports rights for years. It's their own meaness and ineptitude that has lost the rights

Sangre · 22-01-2006 9:02pm

So we can still watch them on Setanta though right? Tbh the IRB should ensure games go to as a wide as audience as possible even at a reduce cost. Its better for the growth of the game.

MrSinn · 22-01-2006 9:11pm

i will be glad to see the back of hook anyway,what an auld bo?|ix

casanova_kid · 22-01-2006 9:12pm

Ah come on now, he's pure entertainment with his mazzive overstatements, better than Guscott or anyone form BBC anyway.

22-01-2006 9:17pm

correct me if i'm wrong, but they each have contracts with RTÉ

Snickers Man · 22-01-2006 9:41pm

I quite agree. The Hook & Popey double act is the most entertaining, as well as being the most illuminating in TV rugby. God the Sky analysts are tediously dull and just do not have the charisma of Hook.

I think RTE should have put its money into backing local coverage of local talent and have put whatever money it has to shell out for 'The premiership' into ensuring that the Irish Rugby fan is facilitated in watching their own teams at the highest level. If you MUST watch highlights of Unoited, Orsenal and the 'pool, there is always the Beeb or ITV.

Of course we could still have Giles and Dunphy talking about internationals and the world cup, but as an Irish tax payer I say keep British soccer on free to air British TV.

Even so, I think Derek McGrath is repeating an old mistake that English rugby made a few years ago by restricting its game to pay per view. I don't think he's thinking straight at all.

Too many 'Pink Bellies' while in St Michael's, I reckon.

Sangre · 22-01-2006 9:46pm

St Michael's don't do 'pink bellies'

Snickers Man · 22-01-2006 11:04pm

They did in the 70s.

Bunch of little perverts, the lot of them.

seabee · 23-01-2006 10:02am

I wonder can the government use that special broadcasting legislation to get some of the games shown on rte again?...It worked for soccer internationals.

Dempsey · 23-01-2006 10:06am

George Hook is the Murray Walker of Rugby.

Its a combination of RTE not doing enough and IRB and ERC selling out to anyone with the money

CJhaughey · 23-01-2006 10:09am

AFAIK the RWC games are designated by the EU as " must be on terrestrial TV" so RTE, TV3 and TG4 will be negotiating for the rights from setanta.
What I am angry about is not the fact that RTE through poor negotiation managed to lose the games but the fact that several members of the IRB charged with promoting the best interests of Irish Rugby actively have in fact damaged it in my opinion.
If you look at the facts, what is the percentage of the population with access to setanta? what is the percentage of the population with access to RTE?
It just doesn't make sense to me.

ruck-it · 23-01-2006 1:43pm

You see I agree that it's best for the game to be on RTE, but I don't buy into the RTE spin that they do what's best for the game. They have no interest in showing any rugby except for the big games. They could be showing AIL, Celtic League or whatever if they were really into improving the profile of the game in Ireland. They are meant to be a public service broadcaster but instead they act like a commerical outfit, just showing big rugby and big foreign soccer. They ignore the Eircom League and spend so much money on showing a highlights package that's aired on UK television the same evening. I think they do a good job with their coverage but I take huge issue with them taking the high moral ground on this one.

As far as I'm concerned, Sky for better of for worse made the HC what it is today, without them we'd get about 1 game on TV every weekend. Whether you like them or not they do a fantastic job of covering sports.

There'll be HC delayed coverage next year on RTE and they have the right to show home and away games next year, so it's not all doom and gloom. RTE are quite happy to show premiership highlights so being able to show full HC games delayed they should be happy with.

ruck-it · 23-01-2006 1:45pm

Oh CJ, RTE lost the WC too because they weren't doing anything to promote the game, Setanta do great coverage of the CL, Top 14 and schools rugby, RTE attempted to come up with a plan to show some of the Women's WC to show they were `committed' to showing the game, but it didn't work.

At the end of the day I wish it was on RTE, but they've no one to blame but themselves.

RuggieBear · 23-01-2006 1:51pm

Quoted for truth!

Excellent post

Crash · 23-01-2006 2:19pm

The only issue i have these days with Setanta is their ****e commentators - seriously, they drive me nuts.

Amz · 23-01-2006 2:24pm

One would hope that they improve their whole package for this though. I generally listen to Newstalk, or RTE's radio commentary. RTE's is generally funny, for the wrong reasons.

Hehe "package".

RuggieBear · 23-01-2006 2:31pm

Yeah the commentators are piss poor but ast least they are showing the games.

DMC · 23-01-2006 2:58pm

As a seasoned watcher of TV sports rights, I feel that Rugby (whoever the administators of the competition) is looking to get more money, and because of this, it is their want to sell to whomever they want, and not care what rugby is left on FTA television. They will look after their own little competition.

RTÉ have to judge what the value of the sporting right is. RTÉ did very well to get one HC match per weekend, after the BBC left them high and dry when they stalled on their contract with ERC before Sky came in and knocked them out. Tournaments which are exclusive to Sky Sports are not normally seen on live elsewhere in these lands, so be thankful we had that!
Sky obviously pulled out all the stops to get all HC games in the new contract, and bugger RTÉ with crumbs.

Like it or not, Rugby is getting more popular, and what has happened in the past tells us that it will return to normal telly in the future. England learned this the hard way in the mid-90's when all England games, and Premiership and Cup went on Sky, and not a whiff of anything to anyone else. What happened? Viewers agitated that a tournament wasn't on the one channel (6 Nations) and the other home unions equally miffed by England doing a solo run.

There is no replacement for audience size, and I find that putting it on Setanta is akin to putting it in limbo.

Remember that the CL was on TG4 at first. It got popular, and then went to Setanta. Its small but dedicated audience was made even smaller when it went to Setanta. I don't know of too many who have Sky Digital who also subscribe to Setanta as well. Once you subscribe to Sky Sports, for me anyway, Setanta and NASN is a luxury I can't afford. As its a freebie on NTL, some people take it for granted that it can be readily watched. If Setanta became a fully pay channel, its appeal, I think, is limited.

The Six Nations are going nowhere either, the BBC and RTÉ have a long term deal there. The autumn internationals, though, I'm not sure about.

Also, the games involving Ireland in the Rugby World Cup are protected under the Designation of Major Events, so that alone, those games may still be put on RTÉ.

DMC · 23-01-2006 6:11pm

Report on the new HC TV rights coming up on the news on RTÉ 1 within the next 30 mins.

yamo · 23-01-2006 6:32pm

is it not the case that RTE's hands are tied on this one?

I mean, how many games can they realistically show? Already people complain that there is too much sport on Radio and TV. If RTE were to start showing Celtic League and AIL games, as well as Friday night Eircom League games and whatever other sporting events you could care to mention then it would be accused of having an unfair bias towards sport - to say nothing about the cost involved in running all the outside broadcasts that would doubtless be used as another club to beat our national broadcaster with.

as for Sky making the Heineken Cup what it is today? That's a fairly farcical suggestion. They've only had the rights to the competition for two years now. They bought into the Heineken Cup because it was already so successful and popular, not because they thought they could raise its profile even further. If anything, the profile of the competition will likely suffer over the coming seasons as fewer people are able to watch the matches live. There's no doubt that Sky do a good job covering games, but not everyone has the ability to access that coverage, and that's a shame.

As for the World Cup in 2007 - I have to admit that the decision to sell the rights to Setanta is a baffling one. John O'Sullivan's piece in the Times last week talked about RTE's plans to effectively turn RTE 2 into a rugby station for the duration of the tournament, guaranteeing a shedload of coverage which would be available to the masses. Instead, they have sold the rights to a niche station (at best), which few people have free access to, and even fewer feel compelled to pay for. The lure of the euro obviously proved too much for the IRB, who get a sweet deal thanks to the corporation tax in this country (as do the ERC). both companies have sold their 'host nation' down the swanee. for shame.

At least the Irish games and the final will be on free to air tv, but will the commentary be as Gaeilge (which I would have no problem with), or will TV3 provide us with some substandard commentator who would turn the experience into an ordeal. As it is, Setanta's commentators are rubbish...to say the least.

daveirl · 23-01-2006 6:47pm

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DMC · 23-01-2006 7:01pm

Dave, as much as it is a peculiarly Irish thing that there are more fans of English Premiership teams than Rugby fans, I do understand that, in reality, RTÉ shouldn't be covering it like they do.

In saying that, the Premiership is relatively cheap, in that there is no huge cost to RTÉ to produce the programme, i.e. no OB's, its all studio based.

RTÉ seemed to make a news story out of George's black armband on Saturday. And he was right to do so.

But its the sports organisers fault for rushing headlong for the Murdoch shilling, and not caring for the fans who cant afford the high rate that Sky charges. I think thats also a fault of Rugby too.... too many organisations running the sport, without a coherent plan.

Oh yes, if it has been forgotten, it shouldnt be.... the Rugby World Cup will be on UTV/ITV1.

yamo · 23-01-2006 7:02pm

what games would you like them to screen that clash with the the Premiership? which is, after all, only a highlights program

and isn't it only every second week or so that RTE show live premiership games? which, in fairness, are matches that a lot of people seem to want to watch...

daveirl · 23-01-2006 7:23pm

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yamo · 23-01-2006 9:37pm

but they don't show multiple matches every week. every fortnight or so, they show a game (maybe twenty games a season), one champions league match a week when they're on, and the Premiership highlights program. throw in the occasional Eircom League game, and the Internationals, and fair enough, the games add up.

however, I never said that showing a rugby match or two would be too much sport on tv. you're clearly misunderstood - my point is that if RTE were to show more games, be they Celtic League or otherwise, then they would be pilloried for having too much sport on air. not by me - i'd love to see RTE show way more sport - but by liveline-calling punters who are unhappy at missing out on the Fair City omnibus....

i'm not sure when rte made out that they were all about promoting the game?

and as for people not watching the leinster/bath or man u/liverpool games yesterday - how many people would you have spoken to today who would have been ranting about how crap the latter game was, and how great the former game was had they been able to watch the game for free on a terrestrial tv station?

DMC · 23-01-2006 10:00pm

I do think RTÉ give a damn. Whatever price RTÉ put on it, it was outbid by Sky. RTÉ have a public service obligation, that Sky certainly doesn't have, and RTÉ have to spend the licence fee and other income responsably, to all, rugby fan or not.

Sky do this. They issue knockout bids to eager sports adminstrators, and more often that not, money talks. Cricket is a huge case in point. The ECB knew that there is a huge audience for Test Cricket on free-to-air TV, but they completely went against their own words, when Channel 4 bid £76m for what they wanted, but Sky bid £220m for 4 years, for every piece of live coverage.

Also, Niall Cogley, the ex-head of sport at RTÉ and son of Fred, is now works as a high-up bloke for Setanta.

[Jackass] · 23-01-2006 10:09pm

Tis an awful shame alright

The rugby coverage is the strongest production by RTE sport also, with games coverd, quality of commentators and panel and so on...

I wont get into the politics of it, but at least the home games should always be free to air...as someone said, possibly this can be coverd by that "free-to-air sport" law the government passed? if it can be used for footy matches and possiby ryder cup, why not Heiniken cup?

ronbyrne2005 · 23-01-2006 11:58pm

setanta will sign up hook and pope unless rte threaten not to renew their contracts for international games,mc guirk will stay at rte with his big contract,

DMC · 24-01-2006 8:40am

I don't think so, as Hook put up a stout defence of RTÉ on Saturday. He realises that RTÉ produce the sport well, and he has a, dare I say.... captive audience for his views

At the end of the day, he'll stay for the six nations. Its the biggest rugby show. You could say, RTÉ made him what he is today.

BangBeater · 24-01-2006 8:44am

George Hook... legend really. Gonna b missed for the HC.

Snickers Man · 24-01-2006 11:33am

From Gerry Thornley's piece in the Irish Times today (Items in bold are my own emphasis):

I reckon those figures should be branded into Derek McGrath's forehead with a hot iron.

Or given that he's an ex-St Michael's boy, into his stomach, and rubbed in with toothpaste.

KerranJast · 24-01-2006 11:40am

Surely the sponsors of Irish Rugby must be majorly pissed off that the audience viewing their ads during matches will now (taking Snickers Mans figures as an example) be 1/10th of the size.

DMC · 24-01-2006 2:13pm

There is no substitute for exposure. They will learn, in time.

legspin · 25-01-2006 3:56am

Disappointed that RTE won't have HC for next season. ERC have lost one veiwer at least. Why?

Because I will not give any money to that evil little creep who owns Sky. Not one cent do I give willingly.

I won't watch the cricket anymore either for this reason:mad: :mad: :mad:

daveirl · 25-01-2006 6:43pm

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Chucky the tree · 25-01-2006 8:13pm

Disappoint to see hook go, he was always entertainging. Popey was good aswell.

As for the rest of it, ****ing muck. mcgurks a ****n clown. after the munster sale match in the hightlights at the end where he was going on about how sale did badly.

1st clip, "the scrum totally disintergrates" - No it didnt you twat. Shouting it over hook aswell. The second one is a real true mcgurk gem.

"Look, there passing the ball backwards" - oh god lord.

Then we have ryle nugent. Another grade A gob****e who has no clue about rugby what so ever.

Sky sports coverage is excellent, not only plenty of live games but a good highlights show aswell.

legspin · 25-01-2006 8:26pm

I would have to disagree about the quality of Sky's coverage. It may be technically more (angles, interactive, whatever).... but I find the commentators lame and most of the analysis is vapid, insubstantial, and generally exceptionally boring, and the advertisers and sponsors are more important than the fans. That goes for all of their sports coverage.
And now I don't even get to see one match a week, but like I said "not one cent".

Snickers Man · 26-01-2006 10:22am

Amen to all that.

DMC · 26-01-2006 1:33pm

Not to mention that Miles Harrison and Stuart Barnes think the sun shines out of the English RFU's arse.

MisterAnarchy · 26-01-2006 1:49pm

This is very bad news for people in general.
RTE and terrestrial Tv in general is being stripped of its top sporting events by Setanta.
I primarily have Sky for the sports channels but there is no way I will fork out a cent more for that cowboy channel Setanta.
If this trend continues it will be worrying.

legspin · 26-01-2006 2:44pm

Seconded

Not only that but the Sky commentators/analysts/talentless nobodies are exceptionally condesending when dealing with anything that could be seen as being 'provincal'. I caught a wee bit of the revue of Munster/Sale on Sky and sure we're only bog men, Sale are aristocrats of rugby and we have no hope. Stop pretending to bring Irish sport to Irish people if you are going to give us morons with no knowledge of the local traditions.

I bet you next year in TP, Sky will try to give you the same mass marketed media fodder they bring to all of "their" sports. The pre-match entertainment will consist of septic-style cheerleaders and if they keep 'Stand up and Fight' it will be sung by some idiotic pop band.

daveirl · 28-01-2006 12:39pm

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Sangre · 28-01-2006 2:02pm

The commentators on the Bath v Leinster match never stopped praising the Leinster backs.

RuggieBear · 28-01-2006 2:04pm

i totally agree dave....although i do believe Barnes thinks munster can do no wrong

DMC · 29-01-2006 10:43am

But you will hear more criticism of the IRFU from Hook and Pope than from Harrison and Barnes of the RFU.
BTW, thats opinion, not fact. There is a difference.

Dont forget, Sky is dear. Not everyone can afford it. A lot of the boards.ie demograph (18-25) if they live away from home; those at college or working in their first jobs, do not have Sky as €65 is a huge amount per month. I'm fervent anti-Sky when it comes to matters of sports rights, but I recognise that they cover sports very well, some better than others. But there is no point commenting on it if you dont watch it, and I always think of the guy who can't afford it when it comes to my opinions of sports rights.

My comment about Harrison and Barnes is more born out when they cover England internationals games live on Sky, and maybe a touch too much of the diddle-de-idles when visiting Ireland (tho they/broadcasters are not immune to that.) I think its amazing to hear a ceili soundtrack in the background when rugby is as far removed from an accordian as you can get

What sport would you like to discuss next?

daveirl · 29-01-2006 4:28pm

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RuggieBear · 29-01-2006 4:39pm

what a desperate bloody game that was.

Lucky the ref was so ****e that he wouldn't give the welsh any of the tries they scored;)

daveirl · 29-01-2006 4:57pm

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DMC · 29-01-2006 5:06pm

LOL, leave the cheerleaders to the US and the Aussies.... they can do those.. you can get away with it in warmer climes.

I agree with your cheerleading comments. When Sky Sports started showing the Premier League, the snobs in the media at the time turned their noses up at the cheerleaders Sky thought would "jazz" up their coverage. Some wet Monday night in Selhurst Park and their were gone... but they were awful and right to be dropped. But people still remember those bad days, and still think they can use it as a stick to hit Sky with. Its not like that at all anymore. I think the only sport that you see cheerleaders on a Sky Sports production at home is Rugby Super League, but as opposed to the soccer back in '92/'93, its the rugby league clubs that provide that "entertainment", its their cheerleaders, not Sky's.

No more Hook, McGurk and Pope.

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