M1/A12 Westlink upgrade in Belfast

Maskhadov

I think they have just started this and its part of the plan for the upgrade of roads in Northern Ireland. I think it will take them three years to finish the westlink. I wouldnt want to be a commuter working in Belfast



Is there any futher information around?

murphaph

From the horses mouth!

MrPudding

murphaph wrote:

From the horses mouth!

Christ. I think I was still living in the North when they announced this. That would be over 5 years. I was wondering when they were going to start.

That is going to be serious work. Most of the westlink is bordered on both sides by big fcuking walls. Not much room to expand. It will be nice though. I'll get on the M1 at Sprucefield and I shouldn't have to stop until Ballymena.....Nice.

MrP

murphaph

MrPudding wrote:

I'll get on the M1 at Sprucefield and I shouldn't have to stop until Ballymena.

Nope, there will still be an at grade juntion between the A12 and York Street, just before you cross to join the on slip to the M2. It is signal controlled and will remain so even following these works.

MrPudding

Ah well. Still not too bad. That small section of road could be quite irritating.

MrP

neilled

Nothing for us in the west I see!
I belive that when the UTA took away the railways they promised that the new motorways would cover all of northen ireland.........

DMC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4577020.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4620460.stm

murphaph

neilled wrote:

Nothing for us in the west I see!

Except a new 370m high quality dual carriageway from Derry to the east of Dungiven! How quickly people forget. Lots of the motorway schemes proposed by the NI government in the 40s/50s/60s were crazy and way OTT to begin with-the Westminster government pulled the plug on most of them as soon as direct rule was imposed. If the NI government had proceeded the Belfast Orbital Notorway would have been one of the worst examples of an urban motorway anywhere in the world.

The only really viable bits that were dropped were the M11 to the border at Newry and some other small schemes. Even the M11 was to be a weird motorway, branching off the M1 just west of Belfast, heading north around Lisburn then turning south and crossing over the M1 before heading towards Newry. Totally OTT.

spacetweek

murphaph wrote:

Nope, there will still be an at grade juntion between the A12 and York Street, just before you cross to join the on slip to the M2. It is signal controlled and will remain so even following these works.

That's right, here's a map. It would be hard to create a free-flow junction here, as you'd have to connect the Westlink, the M2 and M3, and provide access to surface streets. It would require underground slip lanes to avoid visual blight. But I think, all things considered it will be pretty much essential in the long term.

murphaph

spacetweek wrote:

That's right, here's a map. It would be hard to create a free-flow junction here, as you'd have to connect the Westlink, the M2 and M3, and provide access to surface streets. It would require underground slip lanes to avoid visual blight. But I think, all things considered it will be pretty much essential in the long term.

The Roads Service reckon something like 75% of the traffic arriving northbound at the Westlink from the M1 leaves the Westlink before it reaches York street (ie, it heads to West belfast and the city Centre, down Grosvenor Road). Long term they might need to freeflow part of that junction but probably not provide freeflow movements in all directions. The propsed improvements alone will be impressive.

MT

This is a much needed upgrade. The situation at Broadway has been ridiculous for years with traffic pouring off the M1 onto a signalised roundabout. You counldn't have designed a better bottle-neck.

The problems in NI's road network are the result of chronic underinvestment during the decades of the troubles. State funds were instead directed to security. Furthermore, the move away from large-scale road building in the rest of the UK has put paid to any truly ambitious plans here: see the lack of a motorway to the border. As for dualing all the way to Derry, I think that's unlikely to ever happen.

If anything, the squeeze on finances for transport projects up here will probably increase in the coming years. With Brown's profligate spending and stealth taxes over the last decade the Treasury will be looking to ring as many cut backs out of the public sector as possible to avoid the pain of further big tax rises. Northern Ireland is an obvious target. Firstly, due to our raving politicians and failure to establish devolution we're viewed in the rest of the UK as a bunch of undeserving spongeing lunatics. And secondly, as we only vote for parochial tribal nutters there's no risk to Labours majority in punishing us financially. So all the cushy civil service jobs are going to go up here, the favourable subsidies for lacklustre businesses will be cut, military numbers will be slashed, rates will be forced up, water charging's going to arrive and anything else the government can think of will be clawed back.

And that includes major pieces of public expenditure, including transport plans and the like. Time to tighten our belts I think.

Maskhadov

Tighten surely. There is a massive over capacity in the system between the local autorities (what we call county councils) and the top level of the system (i.e the government). That entire middle part (called the civil service) needs to be eliminated for efficiency.

A high quality motorway to the border with the Republic would be a smart idea but its not happening any time soon.

Dual carriage way to Londonderry / Derry would be another smart idea but who will actually pay for it remainds to be seen(and connect on to the Western Atlantic corridor). Maybe a toll could help pay for it.

After that I would recommend better links (2+1) from Dungannon to Enniskillen (and connect on to the Western Atlantic corridor).

That would be enough dual carriage way/motorway. Proper rail services should be of the main focus.

I would love to see some of those grandiose motorway plans

murphaph

Maskhadov wrote:

I would love to see some of those grandiose motorway plans

You can make some of them out from the existing network....
M3 was supposed to continue to Bangor roughly along the line of the existing A2
M2 was supposed to be motorway all the way to Coleraine
M22 was supposed to continue to Derry
M4 was supposed to come in to belfast from the south/southest and connect near Ormeau Park to the Belfast Orbital motorway which would have basically consisted of the existing M3 and Westlink (a full motorway version of Weslink!) together with another two sections of motorway destroying even more of Belfast forming a ring around the city centre-quite awful really.
M5 was supposed to continue to Carickfergus
M8 was supposed to go to Larne
M11 was supposed to branch off the M1 and go to Newry

If they had actually completed all that it would have left NI with the best motorway network of any part of the UK! A lot of it was showboating by the NI government and simply not justified economically.

spacetweek

murphaph wrote:

You can make some of them out from the existing network....
<snip>
If they had actually completed all that it would have left NI with the best motorway network of any part of the UK! A lot of it was showboating by the NI government and simply not justified economically.

While bored in work one day I patched together a map based on Wesley Johnston's info on his site. A truly phenomenal number of motorways for such a small province! Of course some of them made sense (Belfast-Newry, Belfast-Derry) but most of what you would have had in the Belfast area was pretty OTT.

Maskhadov

wow :P thats a lot of motorways there, Belfast - Derry and Belfast - Border (Dublin) are the only real need.

Slice

we're viewed in the rest of the UK as a bunch of undeserving spongeing lunatics

When you consider that NI's economy is 30% fuelled by the public sector compared to 20% average for the Britain and Ireland then obviously cuts have to be made somewhere and suddenly the above statement seems to be very true, especially when that public sector is mostly funded by British taxpayers

Pfungstadter

Here are some web pages to look at. They show pictures of what the Belfast Motorway Ring would have looked like and where it would have gone.



http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/roads/belfasturbanmotorway.html

This one show the propoesed NI motorway network

http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/roads/historymotorwayplans.html

spacetweek

Pfungstadter wrote:

Here are some web pages to look at. They show pictures of what the Belfast Motorway Ring would have looked like and where it would have gone.
http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/roads/belfasturbanmotorway.html

Very interesting.

But what a wasteland Belfast would have become if the urban motorway sections had been built. *shudder*.

darkman2

Pfungstadter wrote:

Here are some web pages to look at. They show pictures of what the Belfast Motorway Ring would have looked like and where it would have gone.



http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/roads/belfasturbanmotorway.html

This one show the propoesed NI motorway network

http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/roads/historymotorwayplans.html

I honestly cant believe they thought the British would pay for such an insanely brilliant motorway network. What they did build is going to rack and ruin now:rolleyes:

John R

Pfungstadter wrote:

Here are some web pages to look at. They show pictures of what the Belfast Motorway Ring would have looked like and where it would have gone.



http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/roads/belfasturbanmotorway.html

This one show the propoesed NI motorway network

http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/roads/historymotorwayplans.html

Who was supposed to use these roads? up until the last decade or so most of the roads they did build were desolate wastelands most of the time.

MrPudding

Good roads are handy for the security forces to get around quickly and reduce the need to use small backroads which are easy to lay ambushes on.

MrP

Victor

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7489006.stm

A new motorway underpass at Broadway in Belfast has opened to traffic.

It is part of the multi-million M1/Westlink upgrade and opens one year ahead of schedule.

The underpass is expected to improve journey times for thousands of commuters, as well as between the M1, M2 and M3 motorways.

From Friday, two lanes will operate in each direction through the underpass, but this will increase to three when work is completed.

"The transfer of traffic to the Broadway underpass is the most significant milestone to date in the £104m upgrade of the M1/Westlink," said Roads Minister Conor Murphy.

"With two thirds of the traffic now using the underpass this will improve access across Broadway for pedestrians and will provide the opportunity to improve access to and from the Royal Group of Hospitals."

DWCommuter

I was only up there last week and the traffic was crap, but the road looked close to being finished. Just needed a final surface. This project will bring great benefits and really open up Belfast in terms of through traffic and access. If only we were that brave down south. But I guess the environmentalists would go crazy.

Slice

If bravery is building a big massive motorway through the city centre then I'm only glad we're not that brave

murphaph

Slice wrote: »

If bravery is building a big massive motorway through the city centre then I'm only glad we're not that brave

Arguably they already built the 'motorway' (in fact A12, all purpose road) in the early 80's and the mistake they made at the time was including so many at-grade junctions. This upgrade will make the Broadway Roundabout area a nicer place to be as through traffic is now dropped down away from city traffic and as congestion should be reduced so should noxious emissions. I wouldn't advocate a NEW motorway through a city centre but I believe fixing a badly built one is generally a good idea.

xabi

Anyone know what they are doing at the York street junction, where the West Link meets the M2? Is it going to be freeflow?

X.

murphaph

xabi wrote: »

Anyone know what they are doing at the York street junction, where the West Link meets the M2? Is it going to be freeflow?

X.

Wesley Jonson's site says it's a while off yet but in the pipeline. In comparison to the shortsighted authorities down here who allowed building all sorts as tight as possible to the M50 junctions, the Northern Ireland authorities have been steadily buying up the land in and around the York Street Junction so any future upgrade will be possible without extortionate site aquisition costs.

L1011

This means that I can now get to the Tescos in Coleraine with less traffic lights to pass through than to the Tescos in Maynooth...

DWCommuter

Slice wrote: »

If bravery is building a big massive motorway through the city centre then I'm only glad we're not that brave

I've heard the same thing said about the N25 SRR in Cork. While not in the actual City Centre, (but not that far away) people in places like Douglas were steadfastly against it on environmental and community grounds. If Im not mistaken similar objections were made to the grade seperation of the Kinsale road roundabout. But what state would Cork be in without these developments. Personally Dublin could learn a thing or two from Cork.

ardmacha

Personally Dublin could learn a thing or two from Cork.

Like how to beat Kerry!!

Cork seem to have some good things going.

spacetweek

murphaph wrote: »

In comparison to the shortsighted authorities down here who allowed building all sorts as tight as possible to the M50 junctions,

Care to give examples? I can't think of any. The M50 junctions are all being increased in size seemingly without any problems.

DWCommuter wrote: »

I've heard the same thing said about the N25 SRR in Cork. While not in the actual City Centre, (but not that far away) people in places like Douglas were steadfastly against it on environmental and community grounds. If Im not mistaken similar objections were made to the grade seperation of the Kinsale road roundabout. But what state would Cork be in without these developments. Personally Dublin could learn a thing or two from Cork.

It boggles the mind that anyone could be against upgrades as essential as Kinsale Flyover, but here we are I suppose. Yes I agree that Cork generally has good infrastructure, when Midleton etc. is complete and the Northern Ring, N25 Roundabouts and Ringaskiddy are complete Cork will arguably have better transport infrastructure than Dublin.

L1011

spacetweek wrote: »

Care to give examples? I can't think of any. The M50 junctions are all being increased in size seemingly without any problems.

Notice how close the N4/M50 gets to that little chalet like building, for instance, and the leisure centre will soon be INSIDE the N3/M50 junction...

There was still demolition to allow the Belfast Westlink grade seperation at Grosvenor Road, though.

murphaph

spacetweek wrote: »

Care to give examples? I can't think of any. The M50 junctions are all being increased in size seemingly without any problems.

Total Fitness at M50/N3
Ibis hotel/apartments/Fiat in and around N7/M50
You say "without any problems" and I disagree. The convoluted designs required to make these junctions freeflow (or just partially freeflow!) illustrate clearly that the tight spaces created by the development encroachment limit the type of junction which can be built. The loops are incredibly tight on all the M50 upgrade junctions-reducing their througput significantly. As said above, the fact that Total Fitness will end up in the middle of the (hideous) N3 upgradeed junction shows clearly that it was built too close!

DWCommuter

murphaph wrote: »

Total Fitness at M50/N3
Ibis hotel/apartments/Fiat in and around N7/M50
You say "without any problems" and I disagree. The convoluted designs required to make these junctions freeflow (or just partially freeflow!) illustrate clearly that the tight spaces created by the development encroachment limit the type of junction which can be built. The loops are incredibly tight on all the M50 upgrade junctions-reducing their througput significantly. As said above, the fact that Total Fitness will end up in the middle of the (hideous) N3 upgradeed junction shows clearly that it was built too close!

Accept that the above post is totally and utterly correct. Any fool can see that encroachment along the M50 was driven by stupidity and greed, the two factors that have transport in Ireland stuck in the **** its in.

Slice

when Midleton etc. is complete and the Northern Ring, N25 Roundabouts and Ringaskiddy are complete Cork will arguably have better transport infrastructure than Dublin.

Cork's public transport infrastructure is, relatively speaking, pretty crap though