Ikea proposal will create transport chaos

dts

Ikea proposal will create transport chaos
Issued: 07 December 2005

Green Party councillors on Fingal County Council yesterday proposed to amend the North Ballymun Local Area Plan to ensure that the proposed Ikea store does not lead to further traffic chaos on the M50.

The three core proposals put forward by Cllrs David Healy, Joe Corr and Robbie Kelly were as follows:

The store should be beside the proposed Metro station on the Ballymun road.
The store should provide for free deliveries.
Parking at the store should be limited and charged for so as to encourage people to come by public transport.


ARE THESE PEOPLE STUPID?

The whole point in IKEA is that you drive there pick up your bulky items like bed ect and drive away. How are you going to take a bed on the metro?
Free deliverys? I dont want to wait and with Irish roads thats impractical.

Pay for parking, now that just p@##es me off!

Maskhadov

you going to take a bed on the metro?

someone might try:D

seriosuly though.. the whole IKEA store thing is going to really add to the whole congestion problem with the M-50.

I think if the government pressed ahead with multi-story car parks at all of the interchanges on the M50 and bus/public transport into the city it might help to get cut down on the congestion in peak times.

MorningStar

dts wrote:

ARE THESE PEOPLE STUPID?

The whole point in IKEA is that you drive there pick up your bulky items like bed ect and drive away. How are you going to take a bed on the metro?
Free deliverys? I dont want to wait and with Irish roads thats impractical.

Pay for parking, now that just p@##es me off!

Why do you have to pick up the stuff yourself? I mean in most Ikea stores they have a delivery service. Go into the store pick up everything and then give it to the delivery service which deliver it later that day or the next day.

The whole point of Ikea is to sell you furniture not that you must drive in yourself and bring it home yourself. Flat pack is for cheap shipping not easy of the customer getting it home.

What do you think they should do to stop traffic problems in the area getting
worse?

Now to call somebody stupid becasue they forsee a problem and come up with a way to prevent it is stupid in my eyes.

You don't need to use a car everywhere, Argos, Clearys, Arnotss etc... sell furniture and you don't have to drive in to do it.

MrPudding

You just have to look at what the new store did in London. It was total chaos. That said, apparently once the initial madness is over the vast majority of purchases are of small items which it would not be impossible to transport by bus or metro.

MrP

ballooba

They should build it in Balbriggan or one of the other towns on the M1. I'm sure they would be delighted with the jobs.

Plus I'm sure people are not going to be setting off for Ikea at rush hour.

dts

I agree that the best solution is to build it somewhere way out of town. I would like it at the lake point in Mulingar, just off the new N4. That would be great for an up and coming town like Mullingar and great for me as it would be just ten mins down the road.
As for comparing it to Argos, the whole point is you want to see before you buy, but once you have seen you don’t want to wait for days to have it delivered. No you want it now!
I agree that most people won’t be going there in rush hour so what’s the problem.
Oh and I didn’t call them stupid for foreseeing a problem, it was the solutions that were stupid.

corktina

a bed on the metro?


ooo sleeping cars making a return to irish railways......be handy if there was a delay a guess....

I dont think IKEA will buiild the place if they cant have a massive car park...having said that they do have an efficent shipping service, i know that you can go to one of the UK stores and order your stuff and it all arrives in a container....

Maskhadov

IKEA wont open till 10am remeber so the whole rush hour thing might be totally irrelevant

MrPudding

ballooba wrote:

They should build it in Balbriggan or one of the other towns on the M1. I'm sure they would be delighted with the jobs.

Plus I'm sure people are not going to be setting off for Ikea at rush hour.

Did you see the footage of the opening in London? They opened it at night. Punters actually abandonded their cars on the North Circular road. It was outside rush hour but still chaos.

Granted, once the initial rush is over things will calm down somewhat. Still, it will be a fairly misserable few weeks.

I think a lot of people would use public transport to go there any way. Most of the stuff sold would be small enough to carry. At the other end things will be too big to take in the car so would need to be delivered. It is the in between stuff that will cause most trouble.

I think the idea of free delivery is a good one. I 40 foot fixed bed delivery lorry could carry the same amount of gear as dozens of family cars. I know for sure I would use public transoirt and free delivery if it was an option.

MrP

BigCon

When is it scheduled to open?

dbnavan

dts wrote:

The whole point in IKEA is that you drive there pick up your bulky items like bed ect and drive away. How are you going to take a bed on the metro?
Free deliverys? I dont want to wait and with Irish roads thats impractical.

Pay for parking, now that just p@##es me off!

Bulky, in a flat pack store? *wonders*

jimmycrackcorm

When B&Q opened up in Liffey valley there was road chaos on the first weekend and it has been grand ever since. I think the claims of M50 problems due to Ikea are vastly over exagerated. Of course it will be popular for the first two weeks or so but then it will settle down.

Bluetonic

ballooba wrote:

They should build it in Balbriggan or one of the other towns on the M1. I'm sure they would be delighted with the jobs.

Yes we can fit it in beside the new Port, excellent. Also the new incinerator and dump proposed for the area can be used for waste disposal.

Excellent idea.

Still as there isn't a mass workforce of unemployeed people lots of people will have to quit their job to so they can take up jobs in IKEA but your right the people will and should be delighted.

Excellent idea.

MorningStar

dts wrote:

I agree that the best solution is to build it somewhere way out of town. I would like it at the lake point in Mulingar, just off the new N4. That would be great for an up and coming town like Mullingar and great for me as it would be just ten mins down the road.
As for comparing it to Argos, the whole point is you want to see before you buy, but once you have seen you don’t want to wait for days to have it delivered. No you want it now!
I agree that most people won’t be going there in rush hour so what’s the problem.
Oh and I didn’t call them stupid for foreseeing a problem, it was the solutions that were stupid.

It is being built where they have so that is no longer an option so that has no relevance to what is actually going to happen now.

Whether you want to wait or not is kind of pointless. Who says you get to do what you want when you feel like it if it effects other people?

There are massive traffic problems around Ikea stores in many areas regardless of rush hour. So to say it won't be a problem is actually missing the point that it is believeed that if it is just left there will be a traffic problem.

I know you called them stupid for coming up with a solution after noting there was a problem. The solution is valid and you have not come up with a way to solve the problem. IN other words you are just moaning and haven't thought about it enough to even offer an alternative. You also made up a mattress story even though that is massively unlikely.

As said most things sold by Ikea is small stuff. Maybe you should think first and moan later.

murphaph

The Balbriggan area would have been better for everyone. Build it between the railway (which will be DART) and m-way and the best of both worlds can be had. IKEA will not be interested in going too far from Dublin or too far from the North-they know that loads of northerners will shop there and so any thoughts of a store in Athlone are crazy-the vast bulk of the population of the island lives from Dublin north along the east coast to Belfast (metropolitan population of app. 800k).

IKEA don't do free delivery in any stores I've ever been in and many people do buy things that are just too much for public transport but fine in a car. Many others buy stuff that could easily go on public transport.

Ballymun isn't a bad place in theory, but only in the context of full freeflow interchanges along the M50 Northern Cross and also with the metro present. If IKEA opened in the morning there would indeed be sustained traffic nightmares-imagine all the northerners coming down the M1 to 3 sets of traffic lights to get onto the M50!

MorningStar

If you really want to talk about good places it should have been out of dublin closer to Rosslaire. The Ikea goods would therfore come from the European market as opposed to the UK.

UK prices are higher in Ikea stores, as a result of the location we will get goods from the UK which means we will pay more again. That is the main reason our goods are more expensive here contray to popular beleif that Ireland si just expensive out of greed. Most business see Ireland as the UK for marketing and sales and charge extra for shipping and all other costs just to get it into ireland. Neither Europe of the UK

masterK

Maybe the solution lies with IKEA themselves to come up with some innovative ideas as regard parking/public transport and delivery. What about free/discounted delivery for customers who can prove they used public transport to get there? Or a low delivery cost across the board.

It's in their own benefit to encourage car-less people to their store. The also don't want to get the reputation as somewhere that's too much as hassle to get to for those who do drive due to traffic problems. I know I stay clear of certain shopping centres in Dublin because of the trouble getting in and out and finding parking.

dts

morning star we used to live in Winsford just down the road from the Warrington Ikea store. The only time it is going to create major traffic problems is running up to Xmas and the sales. As Ikea is normally open until 20:00 there is plenty of opportunity to travel there out of the peak hours.

My original point stands that the comments were stupid as Ikea is an out of town wherehouse that you go to bulk buy in your car. That is how Ikea make money yet sell so cheap. It is not the shopping mall that you tootle off to have coffee and meet friends.
I like my car and personal space and don’t want to share it on public transport. If the traffic is so bad people won’t go and it will close. It’s called supply and demand. As I see it there is a huge demand for out of town shops like this and so give us what we want. Planning the road system so we can get there with ease is a must. But don’t agree to build somewhere like this then try to force people onto public transport.

MorningStar

dts wrote:

morning star we used to live in Winsford just down the road from the Warrington Ikea store. The only time it is going to create major traffic problems is running up to Xmas and the sales. As Ikea is normally open until 20:00 there is plenty of opportunity to travel there out of the peak hours.

I work with retailers, I have nbeen in over 40 Ikea stores and been around them for days. I have seen the protest material from locals and read the infor on traffic problems. Ikea stores are not out of town warehouse businesses for consumers.

dts wrote:

My original point stands that the comments were stupid as Ikea is an out of town wherehouse that you go to bulk buy in your car. That is how Ikea make money yet sell so cheap. It is not the shopping mall that you tootle off to have coffee and meet friends.

That is not their design. How you think it works does not mean it has to work this way.

dts wrote:

I like my car and personal space and don’t want to share it on public transport. If the traffic is so bad people won’t go and it will close. It’s called supply and demand. As I see it there is a huge demand for out of town shops like this and so give us what we want. Planning the road system so we can get there with ease is a must. But don’t agree to build somewhere like this then try to force people onto public transport.

Your wants and desires mean nothing to me. It is obvious that people are selfish as your above statements can easily be taken. You want to drive and cause congestion unnessarily then I am with anybody that makes you have to pay a premium. You call them stupid for suggesting something you don't like not something that is impracticle. Your great response and answer to what should be done is? Nothing,you are just moaning becasue a selfish desire may be prevented actually not even may be just the mear suggestion it will be prevented makes you call them stupid.

I generally think of stupid people who moan about workable solutions, offer nothing in it's place and bark on about their desires being important.

dts

If I was in the minority when it came to wanting to use my car then places like Ikea would fail and so would feel the need to change there ways. Supply and demand.
As it is I think you will find the majority of people would like to see more of this kind of shopping environment and would like the roads sorted out to do so. This majority does not want to sit on a bus or train and so as the majority in a democracy we should get priority and not be forced to pay more for the privilege.
The problem today is that a small bunch of people think they know best for the rest and try to nanny us into a society that we dont want. If we dont want to toe the line then they hit us in the pocket.

ballooba

Bluetonic wrote:

Yes we can fit it in beside the new Port, excellent. Also the new incinerator and dump proposed for the area can be used for waste disposal.

Excellent idea.

Still as there isn't a mass workforce of unemployeed people lots of people will have to quit their job to so they can take up jobs in IKEA but your right the people will and should be delighted.

Excellent idea.

Well it can't be much worse than Wavin. What else does Balbriggan have at the moment? Sonopress? or is that in Swords. Not much to shout about anyway.

Excellent idea.

MorningStar

dts wrote:

If I was in the minority when it came to wanting to use my car then places like Ikea would fail and so would feel the need to change there ways. Supply and demand.
=

Just because people want something doesn't mean they get it.
Getting people to agree doesn't make them right. What is right is to create something sustainable that doesn't favour those who would be selfish.

Supply and demand is a consumer topic for prices to apply it to wants and desires is irrelavant.

Stupid people are not people who plan forward stupid people are those who ignore the obvious and want their desires aover others.

Idbatterim

As has been said Ikea only opens at ten, secondly they are going to be providing hundreds of jobs, i think we should be able to put in place some sort of decent freeflow interchange place! The problem is the whole mess of the roads system, not IKEA!

markpb

dts wrote:

As it is I think you will find the majority of people would like to see more of this kind of shopping environment and would like the roads sorted out to do so. This majority does not want to sit on a bus or train and so as the majority in a democracy we should get priority and not be forced to pay more for the privilege.

Sometimes what the majority want and what is realistic are two opposing things. Public transport exists to look after students, poor people, old people and car hating hippies. Mass transport is much more important - it's about making maximum use of a finite resource.

If everyone drove all the time, like you want to do, there's no way we could build enough road and junctions to support it. Congestion would be (and is) rife, productivity would disappear, services which can only be done by road (local product distribution) would suffer, emergency services would be hindered and as a result the general standard of living would drop.

'Sorting out the roads' to look after people who have no idea of the long term and wide-scale impact of their desires would destroy a city.

dts

Supply and demand is relavant to this. If there was no demand then Ikea wouldnt want to setup to supply. Cost will come into it but that taks us down the ripoff Ireland and we dont want to get into that on this thread.

You say just because people want something they shouldnt get it. Why? If the majority make up there minds that this is the way they want to go foward then why not? It is up to those people to put in power people who will strive to meet those goals and if they dont then they dont stay in power.

Any way if they think that this is the wrong place to put Ikea because of the traffic then surly the solution is dont put it there. Not charge for parking and improve public transport.

D'Peoples Voice

An ideal place would be Blanchardstown.

Well lets be honest, at any time of year, it's a nightmare trying to get in & out of any of the shopping centre/retail parks,
and with the growth of clonee/clonsilla/Corduff,
how could adding a few thousand more commuters make it noticebly worse!

I know I have decided to avoid Blanchardstown for shopping ever since Christmas 2002!

I just love the way Fingal County council decided to not put in bus lanes around the shopping centre, that was such good forward thinking on their behalf! So good that Dun Laoighaire/Rathdown copied it on the Drummartin Link road to Dundrum shopping centre.
But fingal coco's idea to NOT insist on shuttle buses being run to the local ARROW station, that was class.

dowlingm

Ikea in northern Toronto is very near the local subway station on the Sheppard line and have a free shuttle bus. Ikea are committed to assisting public transport solutions *if there are any to assist*. Sadly if there hadn't been political messing and RPA dithering a LUAS could have been through Ballymun by now and passing the front door.

Ikea is not all about beds etc, even though they do sell them.

cil_aine

Ikea are also looking into having city-centre shops, but much smaller. They're opening such a shop in coventry, apparently. Whether it would work in dublin, i don't know.

Metrobest

I think Ikea will be good for Ballymun and it will be good for the metro. I'm not sure what the effects on M50 traffic will be, but not as dire as the Green Party is warning. Rush hour volumes probably won't be affected; it will be all-day Saturday and Sunday. Ikea is for buying household furniture, not window shopping. That's gonna mean lots of cars, but a lot of people will use public transport where possible.

A Dub in Glasgo

My experience of IKEA in Britain is an absolute knightmare for driving to it. I see the situation as no different for the M50 interchange to IKEA. Funnily enough, I cannot see what all the fuss is about with buying from IKEA

MorningStar

dts wrote:

Supply and demand is relavant to this. If there was no demand then Ikea wouldnt want to setup to supply. Cost will come into it but that taks us down the ripoff Ireland and we dont want to get into that on this thread.

Supply and demand of retail is still retail as I said. Desires of selfish wantan use of cars is not supply and demand. Car traffic is a social problem as much as an economic one.

dts wrote:

You say just because people want something they shouldnt get it. Why? If the majority make up there minds that this is the way they want to go foward then why not? It is up to those people to put in power people who will strive to meet those goals and if they dont then they dont stay in power.

People want drugs and child pornography but we don't give it to them. Just becasue you are the majority it gives you no right. A group of people who have not studied the situation want something that is why they shouldn't get it.
Note unpopular decisions proved right have been the tabbaco ban and plastic bag charge. Dundrum shopping cente already has charge parking and people complained like you. There isn't a problem with traffic there as a result. Look at Blanch and look at the traffic problems on the motorway as a result of providing for the car.

Saruman

I second the mullingar option, does not even have to be there, somewhere outside the city on the N4 or N7 or N11 or one of the main roads. far enough outside the city for it not to be an issue for dublin people to get to and also making sure people outside dublin do not have to come in to dublin.
I mean Mullingar is about 35 - 40 mins away from Lucan (toll road) depending on traffic.

Bluetonic

ballooba wrote:

Well it can't be much worse than Wavin. What else does Balbriggan have at the moment? Sonopress? or is that in Swords. Not much to shout about anyway.

Excellent idea.

Sonopress is in Balbriggan and Swords.

There is also Bridgestone Ireland and the Passport Office (production), Jack Murphy, Tayto distrubtion centre.... Thats a few off the top of my head. There are many medium sized business based in Fingal Bay too and a lot more will be up the road in the M1 Business Park.

Anyhow Balbriggan is a commutor town to be honest and I don't think it'd have the local workforce for IKEA to source at the moment, gone are the days of the working mills in Balbriggan. Maybe give it ten years.