being fair to celtic poker

jem

Most of you know me at this stage and that I have no connection whatever with celtic poker tour.

I went last night to the game in Thurles.
232 player sat down to play @50+5, Guaranteed prize fund €12k
max 3 buy backs +1 top up.
3k in chips to start, 5k for rebuy, 10k for topup,
ticket punched for rebuys and topups didn't see or hear of anyone geting more.
Blind levels:
50/100-25min
100/200, 150/300, 200/400, 300/500 all 25min levels
30min break topup , food- chips onion rings& sausages.
500/1000-30min, 1000/2000- 30min.
Then duration reduced to 20min, 1500/3000, 2000/4000, 4000/8000, 5000/10000, etc etc
dealers for final 3/4 tables cant remember( wasn't in)
paid out 16k in prizes, loads of spot prizes were given out.
I have to say that I thought it was well run, tables were rebalanced/broken quickly, a lot of players are following them around, having played in naas/newbridge(dont know which) earlier this week.
Value for money- ok, they made a reasonable amount on the night,a few friends of mine were at one before christmas that had only 60 there and they still paid out €12k.
have to say that the cards I got were ****, and went out 20min after break when my a/10 hit a flop of a105 went all in and met a lad with pocket 5's for trips, this was after my pk 8's were cracked by a/3 off ace on river .
One of those nights, later my pocket 10's were cracked by 7/3 off in a stt. one of those nights.

All in all I enjoyed the night and was a lot better than I was expecting ,fair play. I decided to make this post to balance things up a bit.

Culchie

Jebus, 232 players !

How many rebuys though, you need to know that before drawing firm conclusions.


On a similar note, I played a very good Vegas Nights Scalp tourney last Friday night which was €25 including reg fee, and one €25 top up or rebuy.

A scalp was worth a fiver, so just €5 of the max €50 spend was going to the house, all the rest was in the prize fund.....which I think is very fair....and you can't beat a few pints along with a game of cards:v:

As you say, credit where credit is due.

bohsman

232 runners with an average spend of 150 is a prizepool of 34800 - 5k would be too much of a reg fee. More than 50% is theft.

Expenses - food and spot prizes. No hotel in their right minds would charge someone offering 200 plus customers on a regular basis, wouldnt be surprised if they even offered to do the food for free

span

Jem, do you know what the blinds were like at the later stages. A mate of mine played in a couple of these before christmas but said the blinds were rediculous.

20000/40000 25000/50000(pointless increase) 50000/100000 100000/200000 200000/400000 there was 1 million chips on the table so at this level you had 60% of the chips in blinds, crazy.

There was alot of complaints about the size of the jumps, just wondering if they did anything about it? I was thinking of playing on sunday in Carlow but only if they sorted this.

jem

i wouldn't think the average spend was 150 in fact if that was the case everyone woould havee used the max possible rebuys and top ups 6 at my table didn't buyback at all for example at my table the was - €1000 spent exc redg fee- I know some tables would have had a lot more but that was our table.
Also I dont know were u got the €5k redg fee- it works out at €1160.
With regard to the hotel both hotels in Roscrea wanted to be paid for the food, because of the charity event one agreed to waive it one didn't/couldn't
In fairness one can only have it one way or the other - a minimum pot -which they guarantee @12k, or just % of the take with their costs which are high I am sure . and in the end of the day they are a business, out to make money for the two owners
I have nothing to do with this crew at all. I just felt that they deserved a comment from someone who has no link whatever, has posted here for a good while. It is the best regular tourney in the midlands, covering, offaly, tipp, laois, carlow, kilkenny etc.
I would point out however that we are going a different way with our tourney.
we are not going the same way. we have said that we are giving 75% of every €20 paid in. ie €15 of every €20 will go in prizes.
full details are here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054873911

jem

span,
I did pick up one of the sheets which were left out for people to look at before the tourney,
level 15 25k/50k anye 5k bear in mind this is after 51/2 hours of play andafter a 30min and a 10min break,
then went 50k/100k- a 10k, 100k/200k- ante 20k etc,
I didn't hear of anyone complaining but there is always a few.
I let at 1.30 am and there was 4/5 player left. bear in mind play started at 6.15 7 hours later.
there was paly at the final tables not all in every hand.

bohsman

Max spend was 250?
Top up of 10k means anyone with half a brain has to top up.
So say 125 average spend - 29000

I mentioned 5k as a just about acceptable amount to take from a 34800 prizepool I hadnt noticed that they had already taken 1160

ionapaul

jem, you are trying to be fair, I know, but if they are taking in €20k, €25k, €30k or even €35k on a good night and only paying out €12 plus spot prizes, they are making a mint and it is pretty brutal. Fair play to them for pulling it off, if I could I certainly would. Anyone else read the report and think about setting up something similar, now that Ireland is poker crazy...? If 232 people are happy enough to live with a 50% reg, why would any operator change their structure?

jem

they didn't pay out 12k + spot prizes, they paid out 15k + spots, 4 k more than advertised.
they have 14 working for them at say a 12 hour day, transport, advertising , tables, etc etc, you must allow for the losses some nights, and the grand final with prize fund of 100k, u cant buy into this tourney tickets have to be won, there was a ticket each for 1st and 2nd last night.
They are making good money, I dont have a problem with this they havn't/ aren't making as much as one would think.

jem

bohsman wrote:

Max spend was 250?
Top up of 10k means anyone with half a brain has to top up.
So say 125 average spend - 29000

I mentioned 5k as a just about acceptable amount to take from a 34800 prizepool I hadnt noticed that they had already taken 1160

Bohsman,
the max spend is (50+5)+(25*3)rebuys+25 top up.
max spend = 150+5 redg.
I would sugest that 5k wouldnt cover their costs or would just about.
I know for sure that the hotels are charging them for the hall,food etc, 14 staff, transport, tables, adv, the 100k game , allowance for loss nights etc etc

I would again point out that they are nothing to do with me, in any way. I am going to stop defending them now. I just felt that someone should give the other side of the story for balance. I wonder how many from boards actually play their event.

NickyOD

Jem did you pay a reg fee? Has anyone ever asked CPT what the reg fee is for exacrtly.

Any tournament that pays out less that less than 80% of what it takes in and has no dealers on ALL tables is a disgraceful rip off.

A top up that is more than 3 times the starting chips is beyond ridiculous and is clearly aimed to generate more profit.

Their blind structure is complete ass.

OilBeefHooked2

NickyOD wrote:

A top up that is more than 3 times the starting chips is beyond ridiculous and is clearly aimed to generate more profit.

Their blind structure is complete ass.

I agree and think its just bollix to be able to rebuy/top up with more chips.

I've played in some local tourneys and it seems to be the norm to have rebuy and top-up chips more than starting chips and the reason given is that the blinds have gone up.

Nicky you've played in some larger buy in rebuy tourneys and is it the same in them with regard to top up/rebuy chips been more than starting chips?

Also you never see this in online tourneys. rebuys and top ups chips are always the same as starting chips.

POKERKING

i no your only giving your view jem and this is not aimed at you but that is a ridiculus tournament and anyone willing to play really deserves to be robbed...25€ for topup of 10k is stupid everyone is going to have to top up so you work hard build your stack up 3 fold and then someone topups and has more than you?they are just robbing people..those blind levels are also crazy..what exactly have they got 12 staff for?pokerevents is an ideal comparison they have around 12 staff or less and that includes dealers and they can run the biggest tourney in the country by only adding a reg fee and paying 100% back...give me a break if they can do it why cant cpt do it??
ps cant believe there gettting so many runners even the quality tournaments in dublin dont get that!!
culchie-your spot on vegas nights are running decent tournamnets now rake much more acceptable and is great to be able have a few drinks in local and play fair play vn!

Culchie

david-k wrote:

I agree and think its just bollix to be able to rebuy/top up with more chips.

I've played in some local tourneys and it seems to be the norm to have rebuy and top-up chips more than starting chips and the reason given is that the blinds have gone up.

Nicky you've played in some larger buy in rebuy tourneys and is it the same in them with regard to top up/rebuy chips been more than starting chips?

Also you never see this in online tourneys. rebuys and top ups chips are always the same as starting chips.

That's not quite true either, if it's a re-buy tourney, you do have to allow for the blinds increase in some respect, otherwise why would anyone rebuy or top up, as it would represent poor value?

There should be a happy medium though. 10K is ridiculous.

jem

I feel a bit on the defensive here.
in our tourney the pay out will be 75% the scouts geting 25% the redg fee is to cover costs etc ace high are not paying wages etc to anyone.
the bottom line is that CPt offer the best tourney in the midlands.
that is a fact.
Therefore they are geting the numbers.
The players are happy othwerwise they wouldn't be back.They have 2 events in North Tipp alone, thurles and nenagh.

I hope that we will have the crowd for ours .

Coillte_Bhoy

you must allow for the losses some nights, and the grand final with prize fund of 100k

This 100 K grand final prize fund - 200 players i believe and all win their €500 tickets at cpt events i.e. taken from prize pool so don't use this as a legitimate expense.
I cannot believe how they are still getting the numbers. I run small pub tourneys in Mayo and we pay out 87.5% yet still get people moaning, ironically the same people who will drive 100 miles to play a cpt event where the payout on a good night might top 50%. Go figure.

NickyOD

david-k wrote:

I agree and think its just bollix to be able to rebuy/top up with more chips.

I've played in some local tourneys and it seems to be the norm to have rebuy and top-up chips more than starting chips and the reason given is that the blinds have gone up.

Nicky you've played in some larger buy in rebuy tourneys and is it the same in them with regard to top up/rebuy chips been more than starting chips?

Also you never see this in online tourneys. rebuys and top ups chips are always the same as starting chips.

Its normal for the top up to be a little bigger but not considerably bigger. The reason for this is the blinds have increased so the later the tournament you rebuy the less value the rebuy has. In the 100+R at the macau I think the top up is usually 33% more. i.e. 3K starting, 3K for a rebuy, 4K for a top up. This is perfectly fine. The top ups on pokerstars are usuallly 2K whereas teh starting chips and rebuys are 1.5K. so 25% more for the top up. But in the cvase of the CPT the top up is over 3 times the starting stack! wtf?

NickyOD

jem wrote:

The players are happy othwerwise they wouldn't be back

`
Because they don't know any better.

mewso

The fact that we are speculating about how much they take for themselves is the whole problem here. I will never support any of these guys unless they state the percentage they take and on the night annouce the payout and percentages etc. All I can do and I do it whenever I can is explain to people they are getting robbed because I talk to quite a few folks these days who say they have played a pub game. To them it's like a quiz or a race night being on. They don't question the organisers so when this comes up in conversation I warn them. All we can do really. I don't say fair play to them nor would I do it myself if I could. Anyway bottom line if it requires speculation then it's not transparent enough and not worth your support.

jem

I do know that we will , as we did the last time, announce the number of players, teh nubmer of top ups and the number of rebuys, we will then announce the prize money and the amount to scouts.
this keeps everyone happy IMHO.
Our topup is double the starting chips.

bohsman

jem wrote:

I do know that we will , as we did the last time, announce the number of players, teh nubmer of top ups and the number of rebuys, we will then announce the prize money and the amount to scouts.
this keeps everyone happy IMHO.
Our topup is double the starting chips.

You shouldnt be mixing your own tournaments good name in a thread about the scum that is the celtic poker tour

jem

bohsman wrote:

You shouldnt be mixing your own tournaments good name in a thread about the scum that is the celtic poker tour

I will take that as a complement, thank you.
I hope you will be comming down for it.

bohsman

Hopefully, as a dealer I find it soul destroying to play in a self deal tournament but Ill see if anyones up for a road/train trip, some more of those cash in pocket cash games should be fun aswell

jem

I hope u do, I will again tell u which games to go into and more importantly which not to get involved in.
Bring cash though There will be a few who will carry a decent posket full.
james

Degag

I was at a cpt event in tralee last thursday night (3rd time that i' ve been at one) First of all we got 5000 chips to begin with (and a 1000 bonus chip if you registered before 7:45) so to get only half the chips that we got was not great, concidering the blind levels were the same. Therefore i feel that the top up ammount of 10000 was about right due to the fact of the increased blinds. What they are doing wrong though is really in relation to the blinds... (and in fairness they have tried to rectify this to some degree) They simply go up too quickly. Its fine before the freezeout, as you have plenty of play and if you're beaten you can buy back, but afterwards its a different story. In my first cpt event blinds went from 1000/2000 to 8000/16000 in the space of an hour which means that there is no time to sit back and wait for premium hands, you have to continiously on the go. Ante's were also introduced at the 4000/8000 level so therefore if you didn't win a decent hand every round, you were going to be in serious trouble. My conclusion is that luck is much more a factor than skill. They have increased the time between blinds for the first 2 levels after the freezeout which is a start but it soon reverts back to normal. In relation to the payouts, well i have defended them in the past and will continue to do so, as there is a business to run etc....When it comes down to it though i rather to play my own local game for low stakes, have a few pints and play my own style instead of having to play hands you know will lose just because of the blind structure.

jem

tackle ,
i far prefer our home game as well.
with regard to the ante, that is after 3 hours 45 min of play. In saying that I am against ante's , I just don't like them, I prefer higher blinds than ante's but that's just the way I am.
20 min blind levels seem to be standard enough.

NickyOD

Tackle69 wrote:

In relation to the payouts, well i have defended them in the past and will continue to do so, as there is a business to run etc

"They have a business to run....."? Is that your only reason for defending them?

Dub13

Tackle69 wrote:

Therefore i feel that the top up ammount of 10000 was about right due to the fact of the increased blinds. What they are doing wrong though is really in relation to the blinds... (and in fairness they have tried to rectify this to some degree) They simply go up too quickly. Its fine before the freezeout, as you have plenty of play and if you're beaten you can buy back, but afterwards its a different story..

Of course they will have a better structure before the freezeout faze starts,as they want you to lose your chips and rebuy loads of times,they are milking all the punters of there cash.Then when you cant spend anymore they want you out a.s.a.p.


Also 1/5 of the starting stack for a early bonus if far to much....they just want you in early so they can milk more money from you.

Culchie

I don't see why anyone put their credibility on the line and try and defend an organisation that won't defend themselves.

Tackle69, if you have nothing to do with these guys, don't waste your time defending them.

If you do, declare your interest and fight your corner.

SandyVN

232 players (im just jealous) 30min blinds, 3rebuys, 10000 top up??
Final table chips would be about 2630000
How long did this tournament go on for!!! a week!!

Degag

As i have previously stated, i have no connection whatsoever with the cpt.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but are there people here who believe that poker tournaments should only take the registration fees and pay out everything else in prize money? I know figures such as 75% and 87.5% have been thrown about but not that....

Anyhow if the cpt held a tournament with 200 participants who each bought back the maximum ammount of times they would generate revenue of €31000. Taking away prizes of €15000, they would have revenue of €16000 which is definatly too much. A prize pool of between €20000 and €25000 would definatly be more appropriate (around 75%) Anything going above that would be too much in my opinion

However one also has to take into account that most people do not buy back the maximum number of times nor is there always 200+ people at these events. I estimate that there were about 140 people at tralee last thursday night... if they all left €105 cpt only generated €14700 with a prize pool of €12000 which from my estimates, may not even have covered emplyee wages for that day, concidering that they work 12+ hour days.

Sure they make a killing in the big tournaments, but if they had too many nights like the one in tralee........

JustMac

I've been to 3 of these events in Tralee and Killarney and have since vowed not to return. It looks like the structure seems to have changed but still descends into a crapshoot just a little later maybe. The lack of transparency combined with their massive take from the events are my main problems. Also I did a head count at one of the events in Killarney and I am certain that on their website they indicated a lower number of players compared to what I had counted. Some people mentioned that their Grand Final could not be 'bought into' though there is actually 100 euro satellites for it so they are generating some money for it. I have not been to any of the other events run by different operators but if they can run their events on a registration fee and be transparent about it then there is no reason why CPT can't.

The Ace Face

After all this debate ( mainly one sided ) I am now definitely going to event in Wicklow next week to workout if these CPT guys are really cleaning up, I hope the fu@k its not a crap shoot. Nothing worse. I will go in with an open mind and update the site next Sunday night.

Ray

Bp!

They were in Longford for the 1st time last night, starting chips was €5,000 though they gave everyone €6,000 as there was a mix up with early bird chips, but same rebuys was €5,000 and top up was €10,000

EDIT: I had no intentions of playin in it and intentionally went down at 20 past 8 to miss registration but it still hadnt started to i swiped the banklink and joined up with intention of not rebuying, but I have to agree with Tackle, by the break i was one of the chip leaders with €40,000 and after top up was on 50, but before i knew it the blinds were so big i dropped down into the pack and the utter crapshoot became obvious, and was lucky to make it to 29th place,was very tempted to chat to them about their structure , payout etc but just left it

hope they dont come back TBH

Hitman Actual

Bp! wrote:

They were in Longford for the 1st time last night, starting chips was €5,000 though they gave everyone €6,000 as there was a mix up with early bird chips, but same rebuys was €5,000 and top up was €10,000

EDIT: I had no intentions of playin in it and intentionally went down at 20 past 8 to miss registration but it still hadnt started to i swiped the banklink and joined up with intention of not rebuying, but I have to agree with Tackle, by the break i was one of the chip leaders with €40,000 and after top up was on 50, but before i knew it the blinds were so big i dropped down into the pack and the utter crapshoot became obvious, and was lucky to make it to 29th place,was very tempted to chat to them about their structure , payout etc but just left it

hope they dont come back TBH

Hey BP, you were at the very first one in Mullingar I think? Is there much improvement in organisation, chip races, balancing tables, etc, or is it the same old s***e.

Bp!

lenny_leonard wrote:

Hey BP, you were at the very first one in Mullingar I think? Is there much improvement in organisation, chip races, balancing tables, etc, or is it the same old s***e.

I was Lenny yeh, last night was my second time at them, mullingar was their first night i think, it has changed, i think i was moved 5 times in the freezeout stage which made it all the harder to get a feel for the players, nah it has improved since mullingar (they still dont race chips though) but it still is 100% "whose the luckiest person here tonight" tournament without a doubt, once the freezout starts , players who ammassed chips earlier arent rewarded and y
our edge goes out the window very fast...they have introduced antes since i played before, i honetsly cant recommend going to them...the value just is not there regardless of feckin spot prizes etc. (a set of chips? thanks ill add them to the pile :v: )

They offer to many rebuys and blinds increase too fast, they start at 25 min blinds which just about makes up for the self dealing but they drop the blinds clock down to 20 minutes once antes are introuduced (whos all in a rush to get home once all the money has been takin it???)

spectre

Clearly the 10K toup is there to generate more money. However, there is worse elsewhere and I'm talking about the Fitz. There is a Wednesday 20+5 rebuy tournament, max 3 rebuys or 2 rebuys+ 1 topup. The starting stack is 1000 (1200 if you are on time). The topup is 2500!!! Therefore unless you have miraculously amassed an ignorantly large stack, you are obliged to topup.

I am guessing that a higher percentage of the prizepool in the Fitz goes to the players, but at the same time, I have no idea what this proportion is. It is not advertised.

SPECTRE

RoundTower

spectre wrote:

I'm talking about the Fitz. There is a Wednesday 20+5 rebuy tournament.

I am guessing that a higher percentage of the prizepool in the Fitz goes to the players, but at the same time, I have no idea what this proportion is. It is not advertised.

When you wrote "20+5 rebuy tournament", what exactly did you mean by the "+5"? If you didn't know, this is the money that does not go to the players. All of the money from rebuys and topups, plus 20 euro from each initial buy in, goes to the prize pool.

Lafortezza

spectre wrote:

Clearly the 10K toup is there to generate more money. However, there is worse elsewhere and I'm talking about the Fitz. There is a Wednesday 20+5 rebuy tournament, max 3 rebuys or 2 rebuys+ 1 topup. The starting stack is 1000 (1200 if you are on time). The topup is 2500!!! Therefore unless you have miraculously amassed an ignorantly large stack, you are obliged to topup.

I am guessing that a higher percentage of the prizepool in the Fitz goes to the players, but at the same time, I have no idea what this proportion is. It is not advertised.

SPECTRE

100% of all entries in the Fitz go to the prize fund (minus €20 for the bubble tournament). The Fitz just takes the reg fees.
Luke or whichever tourney director is there always gives out a full break down of the money taken in and what each prize is before the final table starts.
Afaik the first rebuy is 1500, 2nd is 2000 and the last rebuy/topup is 2500 which is reasonable given the blind structure increases and the fact that people will have bigger stacks since the tourney began.

I haven't played a CPT tournament ever,or a Fitz €20 game in a year or more. But I know which I'd trust to be a fair and value game.

spectre

I had assumed that the 5 reg was the only taking for the Fitz but was unsure. Thanks for clearing that up.

Don't get me wrong, I have played the Wednesday game ten times and have done well, I am really enjoing this tourney. I just feel that calling it a 20+5 tournament is a little misleading since almost every player is obliged to topup and is therefore committed to spending 45 at the very least. Of course if 100% of the buyins, rebuys and topups are going to the prizepool, I don't really mind. I just remember feeling annoyed the first time I played this tourney as I had worked hard to double my stack, only to find that I could topup to double my stack again. It feels as though the period before the break is irrelavent.

Dub13

spectre wrote:

I just feel that calling it a 20+5 tournament is a little misleading since almost every player is obliged to topup and is therefore committed to spending 45 at the very least. Of course if 100% of the buyins, rebuys and topups are going to the prizepool, I don't really mind. I just remember feeling annoyed the first time I played this tourney

Its called a 20 euro rebuy game,its not misleading at all.

spectre

Ok, perhaps misleading is the wrong word. What I'm trying to say is that as a newbie, I was under the impression that it was possible to get away with spending 25 quid for a 20+5 rebuy tournament. This is not the case, it is almost impossible to be in a situation where one has a sufficient chipstack and doesn't have to topup. My understanding of a rebuy tournament is that the topup is there for those who have not already done well in the tournament. This Wednesday game appears to be an exception as in my opinion, you are obliged to topup in order to be in with a fighting chance.

SPECTRE

okidoki987

Based on the points made above, the take for the organisers from this tournie was at least 10k (minimum) after all expenses were paid.
NICE nights work if you can get it :eek:

The reason so many people play must be due to at least the following
(a) Winner or Pool 12K (for a small stake, people get interested)
(b) Only 50+5 to enter (but we all know you'd have to spend at least another 50, more
likely another 100 to have any chance.

ArmaniJeanss

spectre wrote:

Ok, perhaps misleading is the wrong word. What I'm trying to say is that as a newbie, I was under the impression that it was possible to get away with spending 25 quid for a 20+5 rebuy tournament. This is not the case, it is almost impossible to be in a situation where one has a sufficient chipstack and doesn't have to topup. My understanding of a rebuy tournament is that the topup is there for those who have not already done well in the tournament.
SPECTRE

I think this is a very fair point. Most pub tourneys I've seen advertised have 'ENTRY FEE €25' in big capital letters and 'and rebuys' beside it in small print. Topups are often not mentioned. I'd suspect that it would probably fall
foul of advertising standards at some level, especially as it is almost impossible to progress in the tourney without taking the topup.
I know people in my job who've gone to these pub games, knowing the basics of the game but genuinely not having a clue wtf 'rebuys' and 'topups' are. They think they can enjoy a nights poker for €25 with a possibility of winning a few quid and end up being disillusioned and not bothering playing again, which isnt good news for anyone.
I'm not sure what exactly the solution is, merely pointing out that it is a problem.
AJs.

OilBeefHooked2

okidoki987 wrote:

The reason so many people play must be due to at least the following
(a) Winner or Pool 12K (for a small stake, people get interested)
(b) Only 50+5 to enter (but we all know you'd have to spend at least another 50, more
likely another 100 to have any chance.

the reason so many people play imo is that outside of the main population centres there is little or no organised poker on a regular basis so its simply a matter of choice and i'd like to think that once people become aware of what an organised and fair tourney is that they simply stop going, sadly i doubt that will happen anytime soon.

Personally I've never gone a cpt event and never will thanks to boards and the informed way in which they dissect the tourney i.e. blinds,levels and buy-in/payout ratio. Although I did contemplate going to one last year I'm glad I didn't and would like to thank the guys here for exposing the rip off that is CPT.

5starpool

spectre wrote:

It feels as though the period before the break is irrelavent.

It is if you play like a rock. All their posters (littered around the club, and on their website) says how many rebuys/topups available.

Bp!

5starpool wrote:

It is if you play like a rock.

Dont agree Starpool, there was 2 players at my table who went broke on the last hand before the break who rebought and toped up at the same time giving them €15,000 in chips!!!! I had not rebought and had 40,000, doesnt make it seem worthwhile...Hence the play before the break does feel irrelevant, one of these players was still init when i was walkin out the door

5starpool

Bp! wrote:

Dont agree Starpool, there was 2 players at my table who went broke on the last hand before the break who rebought and toped up at the same time giving them €15,000 in chips!!!! I had not rebought and had 40,000, doesnt make it seem worthwhile...Hence the play before the break does feel irrelevant, one of these players was still init when i was walkin out the door

I was referring to the Fitz 20+5 rebuy tournaments only. I have never, and will almost certainly never attend a CPT event.

Bp!

5starpool wrote:

I was referring to the Fitz 20+5 rebuy tournaments only. I have never, and will almost certainly never attend a CPT event.

My bad , sorry:)

DeVore

Nah, all the rebuys and topups are paid into the pool in the Fitz. Its all there and examinable any time you like. I've also done the prize pool in there for that tournie a number of times and it was all above board.

The rebuys are 1000,1500 2500. This it to stop the situation when we you are rebuying 1k when the blinds are 50/100, chips will have downgraded in value by then so you should get a few more at that time. Getting 10k on a 2500 starting stack is silly and it was the one flaw in the recent trip to tipp imho.

DeV.

spectre

Nah, all the rebuys and topups are paid into the pool in the Fitz. Its all there and examinable any time you like. I've also done the prize pool in there for that tournie a number of times and it was all above board.

That's fine but how can they make money on tournaments like this? There is usually five tables so they earn about E250 in registration. I don't see how this could even cover their costs. I'm estimating the dealers knock up about 15 manhours. There's also the food provided as well as numerous overheads.

Fair enough, they are getting people into the club, many of whom will end up playing on the gaming tables and cash games. I'm guessing that this is where most of their profit comes from?