Combatives, Self Defence, Etc

Millionaire

Hi All

Here is a good link that explains real , and tried and tested and still used techniques from Combatives, CQC Close Quater Combat, for RBSD.

This link explains it real well.

As some of you know I do Krav Maga (only Irish instructor that was trained in Israel). KM is excellent , but its not the secret death touch system its made out to be! Its escapes from grabs, bear hugs etc are excellent, its military applications are excellent and weapon defences. (though military stuff is nice to know for training, I do a bit but unless I am going to Iraq which I am not....ya get the picture). and then there is the usual punches and kicks,like thai or Kickboxing with dirty tricks.

I decided to really simplify what I am training it, something that is to the point, no BS, simple and works on the street.. and this is the answer

http://message.geoffthompson.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000611

Throw out all the fancy stuff and work on this. OK I do believe that you got to back up this CQC stuff, with hard training in something like Thai, or boxing with some grappling etc. if ya want to be the best!

For example a palm shot is a brilliant technique, easy to learn, and remember, IMO more effective than a punch. and i have very successful used a Palm Shot/Tigers claw in a real live situation.

other great RBSD resources is

www.senshido.com this stuff is great I got most of the DVDS.

www.urbancombatives.com I am a big admirer of Lee Morrissions teachings. got his DVD Fight Back here is Thailand with me and I use it to train solo.

there is a load more stuff, but this is the cream of the crop.

may not be everyones cup of tea. however this stuff would mirror my training ideals. and the instructors are all operation in the self protection industry, so that techniques are being used live all the time.

I find with KM, too much hype, BS and politics are being associated with it.


As Bruce Lee said "Absorb what is useful and discard the rest!"

Peace!

G

so what ya all think of it??

Musashi

Hey Millionaire, off topic but do you know anyone supplies either RedMan, FIST or Bulletman suits? Hoping to bring more contact scenarios into training at some stage,without getting battered to feck myself

Millionaire

Hi Musashi

I do have the links but if you google Red Man suit in UK , there is a company that sells them and does training courses for them to the cops and all in london and they have a rep in Navan or something and they cost like 1800 euro!!

so you can make your own Bulletman Helemet if your are handy with stuff

here is a link and go down to slackbladders post and he has a link that will tell you how to make a bulletman helemet. also on the www.senshido.com forum, there was a post re this too.. i think!
http://message.geoffthompson.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=14;t=000095

Speaking of Senshido did you ever see that Shredder technique, it got to be the ultimate equalizer in RBSD and i have done plenty of drills on it myself. I think Rich Dimitri from senshido is doing seminars in london in March.. only regret I have about coming to thailand is missing that seminar!! got all his DVD her with me to keep my RBSD fresh!

This stuff is at the cutting edge!

Musashi

I've read about the Shredder on other boards Geoff Thompson rates Rich Dmitri which is a good sign!

Sounds like Sammy Franco does something similar he calls "Razing" in his seminars?

See here for Lee Morrisons' review of a seminar with Rich.

Just noticed Lee has a review of John Brawns DVD "Power Punching" up on his site also!

Millionaire

Yeah I got sammy franco the widow maker, which is basically the shredder, but explained a different way. then franco released a follow up to the Window Maker and it is essentially the same thing!!! I was a bit mad at that as it was expensive!! and sammy talking about silly stuff like putting mad hot chilli sauce on your fingers and rubbing it in peoples faces if you have no mace.

Would like to see John Brawns punching dvd though I imagine it similarto geoff thompson.

Also getting urbancombatives curriculum dvd..looking forward to getting that!

Musashi

Looks like Geoff Thompson is serialising his book "Watch My Back" for free via e-mail if you sign up on his site!

Millionaire

cool ill do that! I read it beofore and ist great, would come in handy..I am a big reader and books a bit thin on the ground here.

what you think of lee morrissons stuff, i like this teachings and the way he goes to other people to learn and adds it into his stuff.

i got his Fight Back DVD.. its real good, nothing new to me on there ,but I use it as a training aid. my last KM classes , 50% of it was combatives I taught,is great stuff!

Is there any other DVDS worth getting from other teachers. ( I got most of geoffs stuff).

Musashi

SouthNarcs Reverse Edged Methods is supposed to be good for offensive knife work, if you wanted to learn that? He's an ex-Army Ranger (U.S) and a serving Narcotics Undercover officer in southern US so his stuff is taught to firearms teams etc. in his PD.

Other than that Kelly McCann (aka Jim Grover) has a series which is again supposed to be worthwhile, I've not seen it myself yet. He's ex Secret Service working as an Independent Contractor at the minute.

What about Melissa Soalts "Fierce and Female" ? Aimed at SD for women but should have good info on it for anybody?

Millionaire

Yes I am thinking of getting some Kelly McCann stuff...the unarmed stuff is my main interest and of course defence against knife and stick etc.

I think denis martin has something else something coming out.

"combatives is a one sided assualt" I think morrisson or denis said that, and thats a great way of looking at it. someone tried it on, you strike first , fast and Fookin Furious, put attacker down and escape! great!!

If it gets into a "match fight" thats when stuff like the muay thai and clinch work (mixed with dirty tricks) comes into play!

pma-ire

christ lads!!

get a room !!

padraic mchale

Millionaire wrote:

cool ill do that! I read it beofore and ist great, would come in handy..I am a big reader and books a bit thin on the ground here.

what you think of lee morrissons stuff, i like this teachings and the way he goes to other people to learn and adds it into his stuff.

i got his Fight Back DVD.. its real good, nothing new to me on there ,but I use it as a training aid. my last KM classes , 50% of it was combatives I taught,is great stuff!

Is there any other DVDS worth getting from other teachers. ( I got most of geoffs stuff).

Hi Millionaire / Musashi

What would you recommend as being the top 3 RBSD instructional dvds available (not including the Krav Maga 1-5 series as I already have that). I looking to purchase but there are just so many on offer.

Millionaire

Hi Padraic

KM is great however there is alot better stuff out there...

This is what I recommend

You have for want of a better word the UK based guys...these guys are good and have and do work in real live situations..so they know their stuff...geoffthompson lee morrison www.urbancombatives.com and there is Dennis Martin and a few others. some are CQC combatives and others have their own sources.

Then there is Rich Dimitri in www.senshido.com he is real good, though his DVDs are offten more the concept rather than specific technique

www.sammyfranco.com is good

there is also Kelly McCann aka Jim Grover and Carl Celesti


if you look on the forums on geoffthompson.com and interact with the lads you will got lots of info.

RBSD is all great but to excel you need to back it up with other training. I recommend Muay Thai..PM Paddy Clint on the boards, he is starting a new class soon and is a top instructor and was teaching me through 2005, ...I still got the scars to prove it!! LOL!

Millionaire

Re reading your question

Ok specific DVDS

Not in any order

Geoff Thompson... 3 second fighter, sniper option, the fence, real punching series...all worth getting.

Lee Morrisson...Fight back ... great stuff too.

Senshido Rich dimitri Shredder Delux set DVD

Sammy Franco Widow Maker Part I do not get part II it is a re hash.

that should me enough to get ya going!!!

main thing is to train hard, hit hard and hit first!!

padraic mchale

Millionaire wrote:

Re reading your question

Ok specific DVDS

Not in any order

Geoff Thompson... 3 second fighter, sniper option, the fence, real punching series...all worth getting.

Lee Morrisson...Fight back ... great stuff too.

Senshido Rich dimitri Shredder Delux set DVD

Sammy Franco Widow Maker Part I do not get part II it is a re hash.

that should me enough to get ya going!!!

main thing is to train hard, hit hard and hit first!!

thanks a lot for this gerry, there are so many guys now producing self defense instructionals that it gets very confusing as to which ones are the best. Anyhow i'll check these out and let you know.

Musashi

Others I've seen recomended are the Kelly McCann Combatives tapes from Crucible available through Paladin Press.

"Fierce and Female" or "Dr. Ruthless" by Melissa Soalt.

I think Peter Consterdine has a tape out also?

And I believe Lee Aldridge of RBFC was filming a DVD but it may have been shelved when the old Self Defense Forums imploded? I'll try find out if it ever came out as his stuff was pretty no-nonsense as well.

Mikel

from

http://www.urbancombatives.com/brawnreview.html


John boxed for over ten years, is a second Dan Kyokushinkai, worked the doors for fifteen years and is the hardest puncher that I have ever met.

You haven't met many boxers then.
And for once and for all, can we dispense with the notion that since somebody "worked the doors" that they know what they are talking about??
What is it about being a doorman that someone becomes the fount of all knowledge??

pma-ire

Mikel wrote:

What is it about being a doorman that someone becomes the fount of all knowledge??

This also annoys me! But having done it myself for 3 years and worked in that environment for about 10years in all, you do realise that the simple things work the best.

Cut the sh!t and get straight down to ending the situation. Be that physically or verbally.

Mikel

But having done it myself for 3 years and worked in that environment for about 10years in all, you do realise that the simple things work the best.

I don't dispute that, it just seems that guys often say "from working x no of years on the doors......" as if that makes what they say any more valid.

pma-ire

Mikel wrote:

I don't dispute that, it just seems that guys often say "from working x no of years on the doors......" as if that makes what they say any more valid.

Ya! I totally agree with you man!!

I see it on MA sites all the time!!

X instructor Xdan in Kickin'-You-A$$-Do and X years working the doors of X city/town etc etc etc.

I've had friends who worked on Sir Henry's in Cork City through the 90's and man did they see some sh!t!! But it never made them into superhero's. Just practical thinkers which I really respected. Though they would'int be going on about it. It was something I noticed when training with them.

Musashi

Actually member Scramble has Carl Cestari Seminar DVD? for sale. The Fairbairn and O'Neill seminar dealing with their methods and drills for training same. I'd have it myself but I've commited to a few seminars here that are taking spare funds atm. Drop him a PM if interested!

Baggio...

Hi All,

Great to see there are a few people out there into Combatives. I'm going for my black belt in Kenpo, but I have had a keen interest in Combatives for a few years now, as I believe it's the best system out there for live situations (personally). I worked as a bouncer for 3 years and never had a chance to use my Kenpo skills, I always relied on more CQC methods.

As mentioned earlier, any of Lee Morrison's stuff is great, also Carl Castari's stuff is really good (he's from the old school of Combatives, and was trained by the late Charlie Nelson). But the best series of vids I have by far, are by Jim Grover AKA - Kelly Mccann (available from Paladin Press), you will see Lee Mention him many times on the "Fight Back" or "At close Quarters" DVDs. One set I would stay well away from personally are the "Widow Maker" programs by Sammy Franco - by far the worst DVDs I have purchased (very over priced too). Also, his "Webbing Strike" strike looks like to me a rip off of W.E. Fairbairs double heel palm. Also cant really see that "Razing" stuff working in a real fight myself, as there is no body weight behind the strikes. Also, any thing by Geoff Thompson or Peter Consterdine is well worth picking up. I'd recommend:

Three second fighter
The Fence
The Pavement Arena

Hope it helps, good talking to y'all,

Baggio.

Millionaire

Hey Baggio

Welcome! Nice to see some CQC people here.
I shall order the Kelly McCann DVD soon. Just waiting the arrival of Lee Morrision curriculm dvd and also a KM curriculum DVD too.

While I was a kickboxer, who became a KM instructor, who also started Thai boxing..(alot of KM strikes are stolen from Thai anyway), for a street situation I would much prefer CQC strikes (they are in KM anyway) just as palm(tiger claw) or slap (cupped hand strike) mixed with the fence stuff.

Baggio...

Hey Millionaire,

Thanks for the responce. I'd totally agree with you there, cupped hand blows, tiger claws etc. Sounds like we've been very much influenced by the same people. Lee has had a huge influence on my training - it was from him where I first heard of Combatives.

On the Kelly McCann side of things I have picked up:
Jim Grover's Combatives series Volumes 1,2 and 3. (all on 2 dvds - Brilliant!!)
Jim Grover's "self-offense" - also, very cool!
Inside the Crucible Volume 3 - situational Combatives and knife fighting (although all the other Crucible DVDs are aimed toward guns and rifles etc.).

Do you know if there are any CQC Combatives schools over here at all?, I'd really like to get training.

Catch you later,

Bagg.

Millionaire

I was doing it, until I decided to move to Thailand, to do more Muay Thai (and for other reasons).

There is no CQC schools or training groups as far as I know.

Muashi who posts on here too, is a CQC man too, and I think he trains alone.

I think from looking at posts on Lee Morrision sites and Geoff thompson etc, it seems alot of CQC guys train in small private groups or train alone, and then hook up at seminars.

look at www.senshido.com

Denis Martin has seminars each few months in Liverpool...which is not too far.

I have someone hold pads for me and I practice the CQC stuff alone. plus do my KM stuff with a partner. and of course I train daily at the Thai camp.

Going to be moving to bangkok in 12 months, so will start MMA training there, continue thai, and may start to teach some KM.

fianna.5u.com

Yo!

How's it going? Could you explain how someone "trains alone" for CQC and real life situations? Is it like shadow boxing, jogging on the spot, working the heavy bag, or what?

Thanks

Peace

Baggio...

Hey M,

Cheers for the info...I guess that's prolly the best thing to do. Try and catch a few seminars in the UK. There is a place here that's "suposed" to train in CQC here, I went for a quick private training session. It was awful...the guy had no knowlege of Combatives what so ever (better not mention any names). So I'm sticking with my DVDs for now.

Catch you later,

Bagg.

Baggio...

Hey Fianna,

Some of the best ways to train for a "live" situation in Combatives, is Scenario based Training, agression Therapy, heavy impact work and non-compliant training partners. Also, if it's your thing, get into some full contact sparring. Some great stuff if you can get to try it out is "Bullet man" scenario training, where your pretend agressor is kitted out in protective gear, and you can strike him with full contact blows. It's a great way to get used to controling your fear and adrenaline responces.

Cheers,

Bagg.

PS - sorry for my crap spelling

Some of the best ways to train for a "live" situation in Combatives, is Scenario based Training, agression Therapy, heavy impact work and non-compliant training partners. Also, if it's your thing, get into some full contact sparring. Some great stuff if you can get to try it out is "Bullet man" scenario training, where your pretend agressor is kitted out in protective gear, and you can strike him with full contact blows. It's a great way to get used to controling your fear and adrenaline responces.

I think Fianna was asking how one would train alone as in without a partner and without the ability to spar and have some one to beat up on.

Musashi

Colum,
Do you need someone to "beat up on" to train MMA or BJJ? It's hard enough to train without one or other training partner getting injured or fecking off due to constant beat downs...........no?

You train in the same manner one would have when starting out in MMA before there were any clubs doing it. You get a couple of mates who are also into it and run through training drills you've picked up from books, the net or word of mouth.

I would imagine the biggest difference is in the mindset of sport rather than CQB training.
I've heard it described as sport MAs being an end in itself, where CQB is what you do to make space as you transition to a Hardware based solution.

Of course I feel this is an unhealthy and tool obsessed way of training, so I focus mainly on spirited athletic competition with other willing participants :rolleyes:

Baggio...

Hey,

It's a tough one, as you really need someone to help you out with that type of scenario training. You could even use a mate - even if he/she's not into martial arts. Failing that, get yourself a Century BOB (anatomical body opponent bag), get your mitts on some of the DVDs we've spoken about, learn the basics and practice your pre-emptive strikes.

Later,

Baggio

Mikel

Millionaire wrote:

I have someone hold pads for me and I practice the CQC stuff alone.

Fianna.5u.com wrote:

Could you explain how someone "trains alone" for CQC and real life situations? Is it like shadow boxing, jogging on the spot, working the heavy bag, or what?

I'm interested in this too. Also,

I've heard it described as sport MAs being an end in itself, where CQB is what you do to make space as you transition to a Hardware based solution.

what is a "hardwire based solution"?

Musashi,

I was referring in a touch-in-cheek way to the idea of being able to let loose on a Red Man or Bullet man suit as I though that this was fundamental to be able to train some of that RBSD stuff.

I thought that for many RBSD practitioners there was often a dummy partner that would get battered when wearing a suit. This generally isnt the case in MMA training as its sport based though I appreciate and in some ways agree with the RedMan/etc. concepts.

You train in the same manner one would have when starting out in MMA before there were any clubs doing it. You get a couple of mates who are also into it and run through training drills you've picked up from books, the net or word of mouth.

I agree and Its probably one of the purest ways. Two gum shields, two pairs of 16oz gloves and a copy of Rodney King's street boxing

fianna.5u.com

Oh I see, I thought you meant "train alone" as in actually train on your own. So you dont train alone you train with someone. Thats okay I know how to train with someone, i just thought you guys might have some special way of training alone.

Thanks

Peace

Millionaire

Train alone on my BOB dummy, for full out strikes to vital spots.
Train full out with partner with special modified head gear for full contact strikes.

and of course...

many years experience sparring hard, train hard on heavy bags, all the usual stuff. oh yes certain am familar with the Rodney King Dirty boxing and crazy monkey stuff,,and practice it too. (10 oz gloves or lighter much better) and i ve done full contact CM in the corner, with 3 guys attacked full blast at same time with only 8oz gloves, many times.

and now trainig and very hard in top Muay Thai camp in Thailand, which I ll be doing here for aleast 12 - 18 months.

its all very exciting really!

And planning to learn some ground stuff later in year. (just in case!)

I think some of the boys on here so quick to comment are well...
very uninformed and assumptive, when it come to how some of
us train. so now its time to tell them.

do some of you think, that we throw a few palm shots, and then
do Irish dancing or play snakes & ladders for training???

Do you not think, that maybe we might have years and years
for hard training, hard sparring, and oh yes...even did that
sport martial art thing (my god I must be "healthy" after all..sorry
matt fo taking your expressions in vain!),even fought full contact
for ireland, back in 95 I did.

so some of us moved on, and now like through freedom of choice,
like to do are own thing...
but do not assume for 1 sec, we do not do the basics over and over.
I suppose I must be ok at "Stand Up" as good old punches and kicks
and knees is called now.

So for by Pearse here as I see his web site and know he trains hard, and his background.

What sort of training do you boys do?

I notice 2 of you are very keen to ask me questions. so now you know what i do...

What training does Mikel and Colm OK do, tell me all about it, how many years you training? where ?

Musashi

what is a "hardwire based solution"?

Mikel, what I wrote was a hardware based solution. Some people do RBSD solely as a stop gap as they transition to Pepper spray, expanding baton, knife or firearm.
This is generally in a military or law enforcement context, though some areas are so lawless that it's generally accepted that an assault could be fatal and you should respond in kind. Ask Rodney King about how it is at the moment in Jo'Burg if you'd like? I've cousins out there and it's like the wild west at times.

The "training alone" would be the calisthenics, weights, bag work etc. that everybody does. We all know you need an actual moving human partner target to get sharper on range, movement and timing as well as working against resistance.

I'd see the Red Man suits type training as more suited to raising the confidence level in a beginner.
You dress up in padding and "aggress" them in a very gentle way first, allowing them to throw the shots they've learnt and get comfortable with actually hitting someone.
Not everyone is happy with the idea of hurting someone so the padding is as much for their benefit as it is mine. Once they are happy to throw shots we can increase the speed and level of resistance shown by the "Bad Guy".
You can also add in "woofing" where you'd throw abuse or just roar at soeone to raise their adrenaline level and get them used to the tunnel vision and loss of fine motor control that comes with the adrenal dump.

Fighters get used to it by entering tournaments, not everyone wants to be a "fighter" but would like to learn something just in case. Of course running would be the best bet, but again, if someone has decided they want to learn a bit of SD without commiting to a style or club then what can you do? You try to give the highest percentage and easiest to learn and retain techniques. Hopefully the few moves will complement or build on each other to be a very basic "toolbox" to be used if needed.

Obviously someone like John Kav. or other well trained Martial Athletes would be like General Contractors of fighting. Each would have a specialty like Plumbing or Carpentry, but would have a working knowledge (or better) of other aspects of the business.
Some people want nothing more than to be Hobbyist DIY level with a basic set of skills to try manage with, not perfect but better than nothing?

I wouldn't see a Spar Pro, BOB or Red Man suit as essential to RBSD type training? I started with a few mates from TKD club getting big old boxing gloves and gum shields and going for each other. We'd all sparred semi contact in class but wanted to push the contact and learn to block/slip punchs better for Tournaments. Every so often we'd be sparring away and one of the lads resting would decide it'd be fun to jump in so you got clipped in the ear and had to fight two of the hoors So we'd just play with it like that, maybe we'd add in a training knife or stick and see how that went, or mostly didn't go!

These days I spar in class with Ten oz. gloves or the dipped foam mitts if I want to be able to grab as well as strike.
I've got a pair of Harbs. but I dunno how our instructor would feel about me wearing those Liability wise, and it's his Insurance Premium so I'll respect that.

Sorry about the long reply, just wanted to show that it's not a replacement for training, more an add-on. Some people don't want to learn any more than that bare bit. That's ok once they're not being ripped off by a one weekend course at crazy prices to be taught stuff that'll get them killed!
If your going to teach something at least let it be high chance of success, simple and using gross motor skills. Easy to learn and retain and make sure no-one thinks they are now invincible!

Mikel

I see, my confusion was because you wrote "hardwire" the first time, didn't know what you meant.

To answer your question millionaire, i don't train ma, i spent years playing football and gaa, not bad at the football. I would love to box, or do mma/bjj but my body won't let me, both my knees are fecked.
I have never been in a fight in my life, i do watch mma, i have plenty of experience of training other things, i do have a little "common sense".
I am also curious about the whole ma thing, how certain elements creep into something which is just a physical pursuit really.
I don't see where i made assumptions about how you train, i did ask you though, how else is one to become un-uninformed?
At least you're not defensive about what you do :rolleyes:

Michael O Leary

Mikel wrote:

I see, my confusion was because you wrote "hardwire" the first time, didn't know what you meant.

To answer your question millionaire, i don't train ma, i spent years playing football and gaa, not bad at the football. I would love to box, or do mma/bjj but my body won't let me, both my knees are fecked.
I have never been in a fight in my life, i do watch mma, i have plenty of experience of training other things, i do have a little "common sense".
I am also curious about the whole ma thing, how certain elements creep into something which is just a physical pursuit really.
I don't see where i made assumptions about how you train, i did ask you though, how else is one to become un-uninformed?
At least you're not defensive about what you do :rolleyes:

I have to say Mikel that over the past few months of loging onto this forum you have made some of the strongest and I feel ignorent statements. You only seem to ask loaded questions. For someone who does not do MA or has never done MA I would suggest that you adopt a more diplomatic approach or as another contributer put it, "go and see a therapist".

Am I in breach of rules here Colm O'Reilly?

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

Yes Millionaire some of us are very quick to ask questions. Its a discussion forum and a discussion forum filled full of people without questions wouldnt go very far.

But.... to answer your questions I'll tell you about myself. I think many people on the boards here know me and train with me and I've explained my background many times but you know what I'll fill you in with the updated version.

What training does Mikel and Colm OK do, tell me all about it, how many years you training? where ?

Well now I dont think one has to qualify to ask a question but here goes...

Played six years of Rugby in my school and a little bit in a club during university.

Started training in Aikido in 2001? and trained for around 3 years with the irish aikido federation. during that time i trained a wee bit of go ju ryu karate with a friend of mine and cross trained in many martial arts.

2 and a bit years ago I had my first bite of Sub Wrestling in UCD with Colm O'Reilly and I havent looked back since. I've trained mainly in the UCD club and then a lot in Colm's Two Kings MMA club in Firhouse. Trained with JK a few times but it was a harder trek to get to. Fought in the MMA League 4 times in 2004 learning some good lessons from some top blokes. At the time my standup was weak but over the course of my MMA-Leaguing I tried to get to a survival level which I feel I did. would have competed in the 2005 National Submission Championships but I had exams at the time and was fat and crap so I refereed instead.

Before I moved to Edinburgh in September I did a 4 week boxing course at SBG Harolds Cross which really woke me up to a love of striking. I tried to train (by sparring ) in different ways since from fighting Willy Hammil (body shots ) on sunday mornings to fighting my flat mate (an american freestyle wrestler) in body shots fights every now and then. Didnt do much proper training at the end of 2005 but Im back full on now. Training BJJ Mondays and Fridays with a cool bunch of guys and learning loads. Doing some clinch aswell. Hoping to make it over to SBG Scotland in Glasgow one of these days. I try and do bagwork three days a week along with some running and cycling.

Theres two thai boxers and a bunch of boxers Im training with so I'm sparring with those lads as much as possible and Crazy Monkeying into a ball when Im not getting kicked in the head. In general at the moment Im training 5 days a week.

But to be honest none of that means anything. I ask questions cause Im interested. If your not interested in answering tbh then dont jump onto an internet forum.

No offence intended.:)

Millionaire

good keep up the training. learn from everyone. be opened minded. as Bruce said absorb what is useful.

of course I answer questions no probs. and I ask them too cause I want to learn and keep improving. ie next project is to master ground fighting basics.

I just I get peed off when people keep criticizing what some of us do these days in training, but do not seem to get it, that some of us, have years and years of real hard training, and still train, and improve, on top of the SD stuff.

For example in 2007 god willing when I move to bangkok (i m setting up a recruitment agency there...anyone want a job LOL!!!) there is some MMA schools there, and I ll be the first down to learn the bjj stuff. naturally I will be keeping up the Thai, and if I got time may teach KM too.

suppose point I am trying to make, some of us, with many years experience in many different systems, if we feel somelike like say in my other thread like THE Shredder will work. I am not picking up a DVD, getting a horn about it, and jumping around saying I got a new Holy Grail in SD. for example I have drilled it many times, from full contact CM with 3 attackers on me. and I suppose with years of training in punching, strikes, etc etc, I am very qualified to evaluate it, fit it into my tool box, etc etc. when I pick up, try and test a new tool, its based on 22 years of MA experience.

Man, if I was in Dublin, I d show ya how this stuff works, let you practice it yourselves, then ya can decide if its good or crap.

suppose point I am trying to make, some of us, with many years experience in many different systems, if we feel somelike like say in my other thread like THE Shredder will work. I am not picking up a DVD, getting a horn about it, and jumping around saying I got a new Holy Grail in SD. for example I have drilled it many times, from full contact CM with 3 attackers on me. and I suppose with years of training in punching, strikes, etc etc, I am very qualified to evaluate it, fit it into my tool box, etc etc. when I pick up, try and test a new tool, its based on 22 years of MA experience.

And conversely you have to get that many of us have been fooled many times before and personally I apply skepticism to absolutely everything I hear about including CM before I saw it in action and tried it for myself.

Someone tells me something, whether its Pendekhar William Sanders, John Kavanagh, Bruce Lee's ghost or Matt Thornton I'll be skeptical until I can use it myself.I think that's important. So its not a mark of my thoughts about you that makes me not believe anything instantly rather its a mark of my absolute skepticism for ALL martial arts related stuff.

Baggio...

Hey Millionaire,

I hear what you are saying, I've heard a lot of stuff like “well... that wont work in a street fight etc.”. However, as I was saying that I worked as a doorman in the UK for for 3 years, and I found that mostly it's only that type of savage stuff that will work. Please don't think I'm bragging about "doorwork" or anything like that, I only used it as a means to put me through college - but it did give me a wake up call regarding traditional Martial Arts)

Also, I have seen a demonstration of the shredder in action (Vid Clip) – and I gotta say I would not like to be on the receiving end of it, and by all accounts that I've heard from well respected CQC dudes it's very very effective. Although please don't mistake what I said about Sammy Franco's “Razing”, I see the shredder as totally different and well workable, but I fear that Mr. Franco has missed the mark by a long shot.

Good talking to you again,

Baggio.

Millionaire

If you look at any of the top UK CQC Reality chaps, say Lee Morrison, they al from Trad Karate backgrounds, found out what really worked in real situations of many years, OK the practicer CQC stuff , but also traing, Thai, or Boxing, and Wrestling also. and these are guys whose butt are in the firing line, on doors or bodyguard work etc.. and indeed some training military units too.
If those guys endorse, say a tool like the shredder, its good enough for me, these guys are very experienced, can fight in all ranges, train full time and know what works.

For example, I asked Geoff Thompson once, what way he trained when he was working rough doors full time, and he emailed me back say they trained full time, daily for the door, in Thai, wrestling, boxing, and judo, mixed with Animal Days and RBSD secnario training, and a heavy weights session too.


I got the window maker DVD, and yeah it is basically a different take on the Shredder.

Mikel

Michael O Leary wrote:

I have to say Mikel that over the past few months of loging onto this forum you have made some of the strongest and I feel ignorent statements. You only seem to ask loaded questions. For someone who does not do MA or has never done MA I would suggest that you adopt a more diplomatic approach or as another contributer put it, "go and see a therapist"[/url]

What ignorant statements have i made?
How is a question "loaded"?
Like Colum says, if you don't like questions asked, perhaps discussion forums are not the place for you.
I also didn't realise you needed qualifications to ask a question....
And as for ignorant, what is wrong with asking someone to justify claims that they make?
I have asked those questions of J Kavanagh, C o'reilly, Fianna, Columok and others, most people answer in a calm way and are willing to discuss them.
They don't resort to quasi scientific mumbo jumbo like some people, and then throw their toys out of the pram when they get taken apart.
Go ahead and do what you do, but don't throw a tantrum just because someone asks you to explain it.:rolleyes:

I would like to see an example of these "ignorant statements" i keep making though.

Millionaire

Asking questions is a great thing, if you are asking questions with the goal of learning, seeking more knowledge, or trying to improve your experience.

For example, I have asked alot of real basic questions about wrestling, ground fighting and BJJ, becuase I know very little on this area, and i want to ask the experienced BJJ lads, and I really respect their skills, and I want to learn. In fact I reading a basic BJJ book by Eddie Bravo here, and it is real confusing to me, but I am learning and moving forward.

If you are asking questions, to try and critize and prove us experienced guys wrong, and you have no martial arts experince, that that is just being a prick. if came into a class I was teaching and was continually mouthing, what I was teaching did not work, or in their vast10th Dan experince of very little MA experience kept pontificating , I would have no problem ponitficating the technique on them full blast, then I would stand back and see were they so willing to dis believe my experience.

As Bruce Lee said once in one of his classes when some one was being disrespectful "if this school was in hong kong, alot of you guys would be missing you front teeth my now"

Even though I am a modern MA person, I when it comes to respect I am a traditionalist MA man.

Baggio...

Here here.... You gotta' still respect your roots, no matter what RBSD system you do. Virtually all the best CQC dudes have all been trough the TMA training, and that's why I still train in Kenpo.

Cheers,

Bagg.

Baggio...

Here here.... You gotta' still respect your roots, no matter what RBSD system you do. Virtually all the best CQC dudes have all been trough the TMA training, and that's why I still train in Kenpo.

Cheers,

Bagg.

Baggio...

Hi y'all,

I was wondering if any of you guys know if there is any where I can get either a B.O.B or a Spar-Pro over here in Ireland? Alas, the one I currently have is not too well at the mo', and was originally bought while I was living in the U.K. Now that I'm back home I don't really want to by a new one from England with the exchange rate and all. Any one got any ideas?

Appreciate the help,

Baggio.

Millionaire

Mikel wrote:

They don't resort to quasi scientific mumbo jumbo like some people, and then throw their toys out of the pram when they get taken apart.

Mikel

I am very curious re your statement above...

When an experienced martial arts person makes a point or shares some knowledge or their experience...

How on earth can you take their points apart...

Sure you know nothing about Martial Arts.. ( and i can quote your post on here where you said you have no experience and wanted to do 1 night a week boxing).

Thats like me trying to "take apart" points made say... an experinced Rower (eg Stephen Redgrave)... I know SFA about rowing, so I would not be qualified to "take apart" his comments, nor would I be such a disrespectful arrogant mouth to even atempt to.

Go get some experience, train hard, earn your place, do some blood sweat and tears, and then come back and us experienced guys will take you seriously.

I disagree Millionaire. I dont think anyone should have to qualify to ask questions especially on a discussion forum.
If somebody presents an element of their training in a scientific manner then anybody may inspect the science behind what that person is saying.

I may not always agree with Mikel but I believe that everybody 10th dans, pride world champions and non-training people have a right to discuss martial arts. If someone wants to say to me that armbars are a load of BS i'm not going to get upset. If someone said the same to Kav, he wouldnt get upset. If someone said the same to Rickson. Rickson by armbar

We're all equals here. There is no place for not being able to question MA masters or fighters.

So if you want to challenge a rower's opinion on mechanics, physics or general training methods then fair enough.

Mikel

Millionaire wrote:

How on earth can you take their points apart...

Sure you know nothing about Martial Arts.. ( and i can quote your post on here where you said you have no experience and wanted to do 1 night a week boxing).

Thats like me trying to "take apart" points made say... an experinced Rower (eg Stephen Redgrave)... I know SFA about rowing, so I would not be qualified to "take apart" his comments, nor would I be such a disrespectful arrogant mouth to even atempt to.

I can "take them apart" when they make no sense, or they are based on incorrect reasoning, or when they present mumbo jumbo as scientific fact.
If i am wrong they can say so.
Yes i know nothing abot ma's that is why i ask questions.
I do however have a lot of experience at a reasonable level of other sports.
What is so special about ma's??
Asking questions does not make me an "arrogant mouth". Accomplished athletes who are secure in what they do don't react like babies when they're asked a question.
I know this because i have asked training questions of international tennis player, badminton players, a friend of mine is a semi professional triathlete. I'm interested in how people do things and why.

Go get some experience, train hard, earn your place, do some blood sweat and tears, and then come back and us experienced guys will take you seriously.

I'm sorry, i didn't realise i needed to earn my stripes before being deemed worthy of questioning anyone. How might i prove my worthiness to you?
Us experienced guys?? Are you speaking for others now?
If you are so experienced, you should be able to handle a question without getting defensive, or patronising, or calling someone a prick because you don't think they have enough respect for you.

pma-ire

Baggio... wrote:

Hi y'all,

I was wondering if any of you guys know if there is any where I can get either a B.O.B or a Spar-Pro over here in Ireland? Alas, the one I currently have is not too well at the mo', and was originally bought while I was living in the U.K. Now that I'm back home I don't really want to by a new one from England with the exchange rate and all. Any one got any ideas?

Appreciate the help,

Baggio.

Even if they are available in shops over here??

It might still be better to get it in from the UK talk to the lads at pad-up.com

Or Argos are doing a basic model of the BOB??