banend from for sale for requesting a ticket

ianmc38

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054873594

there's the thread in question.

These tickets cannot be bought and were given on a 1st come 1st server basis. Surely this should be my choice as to whether i want to pay money to go or not. I'm not encouraging touting and i'm not dealing off thread as it's my post so therefore someone replying to it by pm makes it easier for me as a first point of contact.

At his discretion he seemed to overlook a similar style thread and let the user off with a warning:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054873889

He somehow equates "any reasonable price" to €0.

I thought off thread dealing was pming somebody in order to hijack a sale. Fair enough in the for sale section, but this is the wanted section...

Talliesin

Jeez, only two weeks? Lemming must be going soft.

RuggieBear

ianmc38 wrote:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054873594

there's the thread in question.

These tickets cannot be bought and were given on a 1st come 1st server basis. Surely this should be my choice as to whether i want to pay money to go or not. I'm not encouraging touting and i'm not dealing off thread as it's my post so therefore someone replying to it by pm makes it easier for me as a first point of contact.

At his discretion he seemed to overlook a similar style thread and let the user off with a warning:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054873889

He somehow equates "any reasonable price" to €0.

I thought off thread dealing was pming somebody in order to hijack a sale. Fair enough in the for sale section, but this is the wanted section...

You were encouraging touting...you were offering 20 euro for something that costs zero. lucky it was only 2 weeks.

ianmc38

I'm not encouraging touting. It costs nothing and tickets are extremely hard to come by. It's cash out of my own pocket, so i'm prepared to spend €20 of my own money for this once off opportunity to see Noam Chomsky.

The whole thing is just ridiculous tbh.

stevenmu

If people start paying money for tickets like these, then in future touts will snap them all up instead of them being made freely available to genuinely interested people.

RuggieBear

So what's the difference between me offering someone 300 euro for a ticket to the ireland v Wales rugby international. It only costs 20 euro but the tickets are extremely hard to come by. It's cash out of my own pocket, so I'm prepared to spend €300 of my own money for this once off opportunity to see a Grand Slam winning Wales.

Your whole argument is ridiculous tbh

ianmc38

Touting is when a seller offers tickets at an extortionate price. A tout would post in the for sale section. I'm posting in wanted, saying i'm prepared to pay x euro to see this. people should be allowed spend their money as they please. If someone wants to say i'll pay €x for this, then so be it. We all earn our own money and shouldn't have the moderators of a forum dictate how we choose to spend it.

I agree that people shouldn't be allowed advertise goods for sale at anything more than cost price, but if a potential buyer wants to pay more than the going rate for an item then so be it. That's his choice. It's not encouraging anyone to advertise tickets for more than cost price,a s that's banned in the charter and all potential sellers are aware of this and therefore, will refrain from doing it.

Doctor J

Surely someone selling a free ticket for €20 is touting. It's like, a million percent more expensive than being free, yeah? :v:

ianmc38

stevenmu wrote:

If people start paying money for tickets like these, then in future touts will snap them all up instead of them being made freely available to genuinely interested people.

Somehow i don't think Amnesty International are going to give all their tickets to touts.

TerrorFirmer

ianmc38 wrote:

Touting is when a seller offers tickets at an extortionate price. A tout would post in the for sale section. I'm posting in wanted, saying i'm prepared to pay x euro to see this. people should be allowed spend their money as they please. If someone wants to say i'll pay €x for this, then so be it. We all earn our own money and shouldn't have the moderators of a forum dictate how we choose to spend it.

I agree that people shouldn't be allowed advertise goods for sale at anything more than cost price, but if a potential buyer wants to pay more than the going rate for an item then so be it. That's his choice. It's not encouraging anyone to advertise tickets for more than cost price,a s that's abnned in the charter and all potential sellers are aware of this and therefore, will refrain from doing it.

In fairness that is a valid point. He was offering his own money willingly and on a small scale in return for a ticket, as opposed to demanding outrageous prices for a ticket....

Still though, only two weeks, could be worse.

stevenmu

ianmc38 wrote:

Somehow i don't think Amnesty International are going to give all their tickets to touts.

What makes you think that ticketmaster or the FAI or IRFU do either ? They don't walk up and say "Hello I'm a tout, I'd like to buy all your tickets please" :v: I don't know how they do it, but whatever systems they have they always manage to get around the rules of limited tickets per customer in place and get signifigant numbers of tickets for every concert/game.

edit: they probably bribe people somewhere along the ticketing chain

WizZard

Nah, the rules state if the seller or buyer incite touting then it's a ban. Unless it's just extra for postage costs. And €20 isn't postage costs.
It's fairly simple really.

I could offer Lemming €20 to extend your ban if you'd like?? He'd probably do it for free though

RuggieBear

Besides i'm really going to enjoy going to the talk....

ianmc38

stevenmu wrote:

What makes you think that ticketmaster or the FAI or IRFU do either ? They don't walk up and say "Hello I'm a tout, I'd like to buy all your tickets please" :v: I don't know how they do it, but whatever systems they have they always manage to get around the rules of limited tickets per customer in place and get signifigant numbers of tickets for every concert/game.

edit: they probably bribe people somewhere along the ticketing chain

Because Amnesty allocate one ticket per member and obviously priority on tickets is given to people who've paid the annual membership fee. Maybe we'll see a newspaper headline in the not too distant future that reads "Ticket touts make up majority of Amnesty International members". That way they can get a monopoly on the tickets for Amnesty gigs and flog them on for whatever price they like.

whiskeyman

Turn the tables round...
Say I have a ticket, but can't go.
I post on FS Tickets offering it for €20 = Instant bannage.

The whole supply and demand theory doesnt operate here on boards in relation to tickets.
The same was in operation for O2 in the Park etc..
Best you look elsewhere if you're willing to put a price on it.

ianmc38

RuggieBear wrote:

Besides i'm really going to enjoy going to the talk....

And so you should, he's an excellent public speaker.

Doctor J

Ahhh look man, technically you were touting. You've been here a year now, you should know how it goes. The FS mods have a poxy task to do and I couldn't blame them for reacting that way. If you invite sales and offer more than face value, it's classed as touting here. It cuts out a lot of the crap that would make the FS boards useless if it weren't so. Two weeks is nothing, it'll be over and done in no time.

ianmc38

whiskeyman wrote:

Turn the tables round...
Say I have a ticket, but can't go.
I post on FS Tickets offering it for €20 = Instant bannage.

The whole supply and demand theory doesnt operate here on boards in relation to tickets.
The same was in operation for O2 in the Park etc..
Best you look elsewhere if you're willing to put a price on it.

Big difference, see reasons outlined above, ie. i'm willing to pay and noone is posting in the for sale section.

Also note the thread i've linked to where someone else has done the same and the moderator hasn't banned them, even though we've both done the exact same thing.

ianmc38

Can i please edit my post.

Here's my new one:

"Chomsky ticket wanted. Can't collect. WIlling to pay the €20 cost for couriered delivery to D16."

ianmc38

Doctor J wrote:

Ahhh look man, technically you were touting. You've been here a year now, you should know how it goes. The FS mods have a poxy task to do and I couldn't blame them for reacting that way. If you invite sales and offer more than face value, it's classed as touting here. It cuts out a lot of the crap that would make the FS boards useless if it weren't so. Two weeks is nothing, it'll be over and done in no time.

OK, i guess you're right. Rules are rules even if they're applied in different ways to different people.

Gordon

ianmc38 wrote:

Can i please edit my post.

Here's my new one:

"Chomsky ticket wanted. Can't collect. WIlling to pay the €20 cost for couriered delivery to D16."

That won't work.

WizZard

Anyway, you were banned for two things. Off thread dealing (PM me), and encouraging touting. The other user you speak of did not specify a price and as such Lemming stated

Lemming wrote:

Any reasonable price = free

stating what he would accept/see as reasonable. He pre-emptively discouraged touting on that thread.
You, on the other hand quoted a price you were willing to pay (which seemed above and beyond postage costs), thereby encouraging touting.

So you can't genuinely complain that the touting rule was applied differently for you and someone else in this case.

whiskeyman

BTW,

Amnesty International is filming the lecture and will make it available in due course

from here

ok ,so you won't get the see him "live", but I doubt it'll make much of a difference...

ianmc38

WizZard wrote:

Anyway, you were banned for two things. Off thread dealing (PM me), and encouraging touting. The other user you speak of did not specify a price and as such Lemming stated stating what he would accept/see as reasonable. He pre-emptively discouraged touting on that thread.
You, on the other hand quoted a price you were willing to pay (which seemed above and beyond postage costs), thereby encouraging touting.

So you can't genuinely complain that the touting rule was applied differently for you and someone else in this case.

Yes, the average man's interpretation of "any reasonable price" is of course free. How could anyone think differently? I think it's a reasonable assumption that €0 is exactly what the OP meant by any reaosnable price. Don't think there's any uncertainty on that.

ianmc38

whiskeyman wrote:

BTW,
from here

ok ,so you won't get the see him "live", but I doubt it'll make much of a difference...

Yes it will. Seeing him live and hearing him live are two totally different experiences and i wouldn't mind asking hima question or two either.

honru

ianmc38 wrote:

I agree that people shouldn't be allowed advertise goods for sale at anything more than cost price, but if a potential buyer wants to pay more than the going rate for an item then so be it. That's his choice. It's not encouraging anyone to advertise tickets for more than cost price,a s that's banned in the charter and all potential sellers are aware of this and therefore, will refrain from doing it.

Posters who state they are willing to pay over face value do encourage touting, as it provides touts an easy outlet to which they can offload tickets to sold-out events. It would also convince more and more people to make a quick buck out of their tickets, which would harm the good nature of boards.

There's nothing worse than having to suck up to a tout. No one wants to see that kind of action here.

I know you're situation was rather tame, and unassociated with gigs that touts would take advantage of (and touts in general.) But the rules stand I suppose. You're just going to have to try elsewhere.

WizZard

ianmc38 wrote:

Yes, the average man's interpretation of "any reasonable price" is of course free. How could anyone think differently? I think it's a reasonable assumption that €0 is exactly what the OP meant by any reaosnable price. Don't think there's any uncertainty on that.

I wasn't talking about an average man, I was talking about Lemming. And at this stage of your boards.ie life, you should know that what a mod says, goes. Especially in relation to that modding hell of FS...

sceptre

ianmc38 wrote:

people should be allowed spend their money as they please

You are. Just not on this forum site. Go out into the street where there are fewer rules and offer whoever the devil you like all the money you like for any ticket you please while that's still legal. Coming up with wacky ways to evade the rule isn't going to endear you to anyone either - you've been here quite long enough that you know where the forum charter is to be found.

Talliesin

ianmc38 wrote:

I'm not encouraging touting. It costs nothing and tickets are extremely hard to come by.

LOL.

Cerdito

Doctor J wrote:

Surely someone selling a free ticket for €20 is touting. It's like, a million percent more expensive than being free, yeah? :v:

Actually it's Undetermined% more expensive than being free

20/0 * 100/1

oh yeah...:v:

ianmc38

Talliesin wrote:

Originally Posted by ianmc38
I'm not encouraging touting. It costs nothing and tickets are extremely hard to come by.

LOL.

Lol, you have to admit, a convincing argument.

Zombrex

ianmc38 wrote:

I'm not encouraging touting. It costs nothing and tickets are extremely hard to come by. It's cash out of my own pocket, so i'm prepared to spend €20 of my own money for this once off opportunity to see Noam Chomsky.

The whole thing is just ridiculous tbh.

What part of that is not encouraging touting?

If anyone replied to your post they would be banned for a touting a ticket for more than the sale value (considering the sale value was €0). Just because you are on the other side of the exchange doesn't matter.

Same thing applied for everything like this on Boards.ie.

If you request someone tells you where to download the latest episode of Lost, if you ask request someone tell you where you can buy illegal DVDs or Games etc you are as banned as anyone who is foolish enough to reply to you.

ianmc38

Wicknight wrote:

What part of that is not encouraging touting?

If anyone replied to your post they would be banned for a touting a ticket for more than the sale value (considering the sale value was €0). Just because you are on the other side of the exchange doesn't matter.

Same thing applied for everything like this on Boards.ie.

If you request someone tells you where to download the latest episode of Lost, if you ask request someone tell you where you can buy illegal DVDs or Games etc you are as banned as anyone who is foolish enough to reply to you.

Thanks for that valuable input.

WizZard

ianmc38 wrote:

Thanks for that valuable input.

Sarcasm and smarm are the best ways for overturning a mod's decision.


You go girl!

Orion

ianmc38 wrote:

Yes it will. Seeing him live and hearing him live are two totally different experiences and i wouldn't mind asking hima question or two either.

I'm gonna just jump right in here and say "Tough $hit". I've been a member of Amnesty for about 8 years - I got a ticket because I put my name down two months ago. You said you joined too late which means you joined within the last 4 weeks - anyone with their name down before 11/12/05 got a ticket afaik - [aside]was that just to get a ticket?[/aside]. The tickets weren't allocated on a length of service basis - is was on a first come-first served basis in putting your name down (as a member).

Also, your sense of injustice is unwarranted. I gave you a little warning about paying more than the face value and you actually replied saying "I know they were free, but I'm very keen on going and would pay €20" - that's the post I reported and Lemming was very quick off the mark I have to say. The other poster got a friendly warning too and he hasn't replied yet so maybe he was just ignorant of the rules. Lemming has given the benefit of the doubt there - whereas you removed all doubt with your reply to my post. If I was in your position I would accept a 2 week ban as lenient and just shut my yap before you enourage a permanent ban from Lemming.

Talliesin

ianmc38 wrote:

Lol, you have to admit, a convincing argument.

I wasn't trying to make an argument of any sort, just pointing out that your saying you weren't encouraging touting and then pretty much defining touting in your explanation of what you were doing is pretty funny.

ianmc38

Macros42 wrote:

Also, your sense of injustice is unwarranted. I gave you a little warning about paying more than the face value and you actually replied saying "I know they were free, but I'm very keen on going and would pay €20" - that's the post I reported and Lemming was very quick off the mark I have to say. The other poster got a friendly warning too and he hasn't replied yet so maybe he was just ignorant of the rules. Lemming has given the benefit of the doubt there - whereas you removed all doubt with your reply to my post. If I was in your position I would accept a 2 week ban as lenient and just shut my yap before you enourage a permanent ban from Lemming.

Thanks for the warning. I'm glad to see that you're doing your job as a moderator well. Oh wait, just noticed you're not a moderator. So therefore, your comments carry as much weight as the words of a sack of <insert word here> Perhaps you should consider setting up your own vigilante group as well. That way you can patrol both the boards forums and the streets to ensure that everyone is abiding by the rules. I'd join up, but unfortunately, i don't have the time to sift through and report other people posts that i deem inappropriate.

WizZard

Dig up, not down. Up!

ianmc38

Talliesin wrote:

I wasn't trying to make an argument of any sort, just pointing out that your saying you weren't encouraging touting and then pretty much defining touting in your explanation of what you were doing is pretty funny.

I know man, i was laughing at what you quoted because my argument was so bad. Ban was justified based on the charter...

ianmc38

WizZard wrote:

Sarcasm and smarm are the best ways for overturning a mod's decision.


You go girl!

Thanks Wizz, that's what i thought too.

ianmc38

WizZard wrote:

Dig up, not down. Up!

Lol, probably good advice. Maybe i'll just shut up now.

Lemming

ianmc was banned first and foremost for inviting off-thread dealing. The encouraging touting was just icing on the cake.

As for the other thread, the reason I didn't ban was due to post-count and the fact that no actual offers had been made. You have a far higher post count and quite frankly, should know better at this stage.

That is all.

ianmc38

Lemming wrote:

ianmc was banned first and foremost for inviting off-thread dealing. The encouraging touting was just icing on the cake.

As for the other thread, the reason I didn't ban was due to post-count and the fact that no actual offers had been made. You have a far higher post count and quite frankly, should know better at this stage.

That is all.

I know Lemming, based on the charter i was correctly banned so fully accepted. I was just a little p'd off at the time, but then i reread the charter and noticed all the large underlined writing and thought oh whoops, so it is a bannable offence.

Orion

ianmc38 wrote:

Thanks for the warning. I'm glad to see that you're doing your job as a moderator well. Oh wait, just noticed you're not a moderator.

Correct I'm not - I was pointing out in a friendly way that over face value isn't allowed on the Tickets forum. When you decided to ignore that advice I reported the post to a moderator who then took action. Nobody likes touts and mods can't be online every minute of every day - that's what the report post button is for.

If you do manage to get a ticket we can discuss it over a pint in Crowe's afterwards.

ianmc38

Macros42 wrote:

Correct I'm not - I was pointing out in a friendly way that over face value isn't allowed on the Tickets forum. When you decided to ignore that advice I reported the post to a moderator who then took action. Nobody likes touts and mods can't be online every minute of every day - that's what the report post button is for.

If you do manage to get a ticket we can discuss it over a pint in Crowe's afterwards.

OK.

Gordon

ianmc38 wrote:

Thanks for the warning. I'm glad to see that you're doing your job as a moderator well. Oh wait, just noticed you're not a moderator. So therefore, your comments carry as much weight as the words of a sack of <insert word here> Perhaps you should consider setting up your own vigilante group as well. That way you can patrol both the boards forums and the streets to ensure that everyone is abiding by the rules. I'd join up, but unfortunately, i don't have the time to sift through and report other people posts that i deem inappropriate.

This is a community board. The users in many ways moderate the community. And moderators urge the users to report posts deemed unacceptable or against the community.

I think you're right, you should just shut up now.

Shabadu

ianmc38: Just keep asking yourself "What would Chomsky do?"

He certainly wouldn't eschew the views of a valued member of our online community because he isn't a 'moderator'. One may argue that he would be vehemently outspoken against listening exclusively to those in a slightly more powerful position, even if it is only an imaginary power granted by imaginary people to do a fairly unimportant imaginary job.

Orion

Shabadu wrote:

ianmc38: Just keep asking yourself "What would Chomsky do?"

He certainly wouldn't eschew the views of a valued member of our online community because he isn't a 'moderator'. One may argue that he would be vehemently outspoken against listening exclusively to those in a slightly more powerful position, even if it is only an imaginary power granted by imaginary people to do a fairly unimportant imaginary job.

pwned

Lemming

Now THAT was a smack-down

ianmc38

Macros42 wrote:

pwned

<shudder>

ianmc38

Shabadu wrote:

ianmc38: Just keep asking yourself "What would Chomsky do?"

He certainly wouldn't eschew the views of a valued member of our online community because he isn't a 'moderator'. One may argue that he would be vehemently outspoken against listening exclusively to those in a slightly more powerful position, even if it is only an imaginary power granted by imaginary people to do a fairly unimportant imaginary job.

Yeah too true. Kinda reminds me of Dawsons Creek.