what's the hell is the difference (LCD)

Gilgamesh

I really need help on this one, I am going to be buying a 40" LCD screen and have have put the Bravia screens from sony as my favourites.

the only issue is, I haven't a clue whate the difference is between the KDLS40A12U and the KDLV40A12 except for the looks and a whopping 1000 Euros difference.

coudl anybody help me out, I have been browsing the web for two days and haven't found anything what would explain this difference between them

would also like to know other peoples oppinions or recommendations for LCD screens of this size. Am willing to go up to roughly 3500 EUro for it

cheers

Gilga

Idleater

Gilgamesh wrote:

...the only issue is, I haven't a clue whate the difference is between the KDLS40A12U and the KDLV40A12 except for the looks and a whopping 1000 Euros difference....

Hi, I asked the same question in my local Sony store and the "helpful" sales assistant just told me that essentially they were the same but the components used in the V model (the nice black ones) is of a higher quality than the ones on the S models (the not as nice silver ones). Such a shame because the Black one is much nicer looking than the Silver one. I'd wager that is part of the €1000 premium too though.

A friend of mine is buying the V series 40" soonish and I have invited myself around to have a go of the 360 on it

Price wise, I believe the Sony Centers have the best value for all models. Certainly for the 26" models which I was looking at especially after taking shipping into account.

Personally I was turned away from them because of the location of the inputs on the side (well on the 26" versions anyway). That and the basic "Sony" price tag....

L.

Gilgamesh

thanks for that info nereid, helps a lot.
but as imho a connection is a connection, I don't really care if they are better on the more expensive model, I was just wondering if the specs were different, but from what I saw they weren't.
I know the blck is very nice, but I am fortunate enough to have Silver going in my home layout.

do you know how much they are going for in the sony stores?

pH

Sony BRAVIA LCD TV – Slim and compact

Sony BRAVIA LCD (Liquid Crystal Display) televisions combine slim, flat-screen design with outstanding picture quality. But what makes a BRAVIA LCD set so special? It’s high-resolution image processors ensure that our entire range of BRAVIA LCD TVs match the clarity and the brightness of the very best Cathode Ray Tube (CRT) sets, but without the bulk – an LCD TV can be twice as slim as an equivalent CRT set. What’s more, most of our LCD models are digital switchover compliant with integrated FREEVIEW tuners and also meet the High Definition of ‘HD’ ready standard (in fact, you can watch High Definition TV from 26 inch and above). There are three LCD series to choose from: the big-screen W series, the mid-sized V Series and the flexible S Series.

‘S’ Series BRAVIA LCD. Flexibility Flat

Sony’s flat-panel ‘S’ Series BRAVIA LCD range is designed to be especially slim and compact, so whether you need a large set for the lounge or something smaller for the bedroom, you can be sure there’s an ‘S’ Series for you. Screen sizes range from 23 inch, up to 40 inch.


http://www.sony-mea.com/bravia/html/Vseries.html
http://www.sony-mea.com/bravia/html/Sseries.html

JimmyL

The biggest difference is that one of them has the WEGA engine.

rabbitinlights

Personally if I was going to pay €3500 for an LCD TV, Id want it to be full HDTV capable (1080p), the spec of sonys are all 720p (1366x768)

The Philips Cineos 37"-42" LCD


They are about that price and have a motorised stand and are Full 1080p, Also Ive seen the flag ship models of the sony and philips tested next to each other with different sources and the philips won hands down, especially on sky TV.

The sony are nice but are just not good enough for that money.

Gilgamesh

thanks for the infos guys.

I have seen the cineos screens from philips, but I have two problems with them.

first of all, I will not bee needing the motorised stand as it is going to be hanging anyway.

second of all, I do agree that they can manage 1080p natively, but the issue I have with that is that there isn't going to be a single channel out in europe anway, which will broadcast in that res, so why splash out th money for it.



also, what does the WEGA engine do on LCD screens anyway?

byte

Interesting article here on 1080p V 720p and why they chose 720p.

maco

Just have my 40 samsung M61 and very happy with it. Cost me €2,900 at komplett.ie.

rabbitinlights

Thats a pretty intresting article alright, I doubt broadcasters will go the full 1080p in the near future, But next-gen DVD (Blu-Ray/HD-DVD) are ment to be from the very start. Broadcasters will be using 720 to save bandwidth imo, also alot will be broadcasting in 1080i to save even more bandwidth. If I could get a philips 1080p for the same price as sony 720p, I would. but thats just me. Either way your getting a pretty amazing TV!!

Gilgamesh

I agree with you on the same price thing, but the cineos is a smaller screen and costs more.
I said I am willing to go up to 3500, but if I don't have a good reason, why should I?
and then again the larger cineos screen is way above my budget.
I also looked at the samsungs, but I though the images on the sone S model were more brilliant to look at.

JimmyL

The WEGA engine is an image processor to make SD source look better in HD. Apparently, it is supposed to be quite good.

Got this with a quick search: http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_ViewStatic-Start?page=static%2Farticles%2Fwhywega.isml

JimmyL

Gilgamesh wrote:

I also looked at the samsungs, but I though the images on the sone S model were more brilliant to look at.

Which Samsung did you look at? The LE40M51/61 has the same panel as the Sony and has better spec on paper but I haven't found anywhere in Ireland that has one to demo. If you do, please let us know.

Gilgamesh

am really interested in the samsungs too, have seen the M51 in action (UK though) and was blown away.

tell ya what, if I do end up getting the samsung, then you can come over and have a look

Maxwell

I would think very seriously about spending up to 3,500 on a 40" LCD from Sony and especially in a sony centre in Ireland. You are basically going to pay wellllll over the odds.

Gilgamesh

don't worry, am not intending to buy ANYTHIN electrical in Ireland.
maybe komplett as their prices seem to be okay and correspond with the norm prices of the screens.

I think I will go for the S model Bravia 40" as it seems to be the best option, it doesn't really have anything less than the V model except for the design, it even has the WEGA engine too, so that isn't a put back.
will just pop over to the sony store today to look at it again before I make my mind up.

cheers for the help guys.

now next thing will be a kickass stand for it

Ru

Maxwell wrote:

I would think very seriously about spending up to 3,500 on a 40" LCD from Sony and especially in a sony centre in Ireland. You are basically going to pay wellllll over the odds.

What are you comparing this too?? The Internet??

Unless i'm missing something here the V40 is €3200 in the Sony Centre in D4.
I know because i bought one yesterday. The picture on the V 40 is far superior than both the comparible philips and the LG. I brought U571 on DVD with me to the several shops and got the staff to hook up a dvd player with component cables and play the same scene (depth charges under water). The sony is flawless. The best were the samsung but the Sony was my fav. They have ASTRA HD and hooked up the V 40 so i could see it at it's best.

JimmyL

Gilgamesh wrote:

I think I will go for the S model Bravia 40" as it seems to be the best option, it doesn't really have anything less than the V model except for the design, it even has the WEGA engine too, so that isn't a put back.

I don't think the S has the WEGA Engine but I don't seem to be able to find any reference to it for either the S or the V on both IE and UK Sony website. Checked the specs and manuals and they mention it either.

Maxwell

Ru wrote:

What are you comparing this too?? The Internet??

Unless i'm missing something here the V40 is €3200 in the Sony Centre in D4.
IQUOTE]

The 3,500 price is what was mentioned as the budget

What I am saying is that you can buy much cheaper from Shops in other country's and have them delivered to you for €80euros. Exactly what I did for my 42" HD Plasma - which only cost 2,700 delivered to my door.

Ru

JimmyL wrote:

I don't think the S has the WEGA Engine but I don't seem to be able to find any reference to it for either the S or the V on both IE and UK Sony website. Checked the specs and manuals and they mention it either.

They've changed the name of WEGA Engine to 3D Comb Filter!!

The old sounded better but whatya gonna do............

One strange thing is that the S Series has a PC input and better sound!?!?

Ru

Maxwell wrote:

What I am saying is that you can buy much cheaper from Shops in other country's and have them delivered to you for €80euros. Exactly what I did for my 42" HD Plasma - which only cost 2,700 delivered to my door.

Oh............ sorry i miss understood.
I get pretty pi55ed when i hear about people complaining about prices in shops and then buy off the internet. All they will accomplish in the long run are lesser quality products. I have some dealings with one of the major brand and i know what there profit margins are. They just can’t compete. Internet retailers don't have to train staff, or pay huge rental fees for prime locations nor do they have to pay for main stream advertising, just a warehouse and a PC can run a company. The more people buy from the internet......the worse the products will become in the long run...fact...
Manufacturers will eventually cut costs to compete with the internet as high street retailers will generally uphold a reputation of a brand better than a forum will. You and I will look on sites to see what people think of a product or brand but our parents won't. They head down to the local Peat's or Sony Centre and speak to a person and see the product. But if the manufacture has to cut corner to keep costs down to maintain the retailers (which they do by contract) the telly or hi-fi end up in the scrap heap in a few years.....
I understand that very few people can afford to pay that extra €300 to buy in the shops but its funny how the electrical industry is taking the brunt of our frustrations at being ripped off. Stamp Duty, house prices, car prices, Insurance and cup o soups are all significantly more expensive here than mainland Europe but we put up with it anyway……. The next time you go to buy a pair of Nike Air in champion sports….try the old chestnut “will there much cheaper on the internet” and see what happens.

The Irish electrical industry is in trouble and it’ll be the first casualty. My worry is simply quality of goods. The internet will kill it.

Sorry for the rant…….maybe we should have a ranting thread………

Maxwell

I do understand your frustrations as you work for a retailer, but you do have to face the facts that people are getting more savvy and are checking for the best prices. My example really hit home at the margins in each country. Yes I bought from a German Retailer who had a shop in Dresden, but I did technically buy off the internet because that is where I found them. But they have a shop also:

So, a German retailer with a shop and website can offer me a price delivered to my door for 2,700 while at the same time I went into Harvey Norman's and was quoted 4,500 - now that is a huge,huge difference!! Fair enough, you could say that I didn't get the expert knowledge or expertise of talking to someone in the shop etc etc, but walk into any Curry's, Dixon's Harvey Norman and the person is usally quite rude and lacking in the expertise/service that you are supposedly paying extra for.

Sorry to say it but because you are linked to a Sony Store. I was looking to purchase a Sony Surround System 8-12 months ago and picked up the brochures, had a look and decided what I wanted. I head for the Galway and Limerick Sony Stores and they basically gave me no help and when I asked for a demo of the equipment before I bought (and I DID intend to buy from them there and then - I was told that they couldnt) the lack of service and help (from BOTH the Galway & Limerick stores was truely shocking) - so I then went searchin on the web and got my system delivered to my door and I saved over €250

I will not be paying for the "service" Irish retailer provide in the future.

You say that the Irish Electrical industry is in trouble and I can only agree with you as you are on the front line - but head over to the stores, ask questions and request demo's of products and listen to the answers....you will then witness the reasons why more and more people are buying from the Internet and stores in other country's.

Ru

You’re absolutely right...........if there was competition for NTL on the internet i would use it....... but that's my point........it's a vicious cycle..........
If retailers don't sell as much.....they can't pay staff as much, if they can't pay well they end up hiring monkeys. I don't blame you at all for buying from Germany, they are simply great prices. However you shouldn't paint all salespeople with the same brush......it's the same as calling all priests.....well I’m not getting into that one.
There are retailers who are only still in business because of the level of service.
Internet shopping will always be around..........it's like minidisk!?!
But without retail outlets you’re trusting other peoples opinions and alot of that is from reading someone else’s blog and again that's alot of opinion.
I used to work in a retail store and if someone bought from the internet they were shunned, I’ve never earned commission; it was because we saw it as cheating. If i had a Euro for every time someone bought from the net and couldn’t work it or didn't actually like what they bought.............well i could afford a 50" in brown Thomas.

Gilgamesh

imho, I do look for good service, but then again I am not willing to pay for a good salesperson, that is just completely wrong. I am looking for a good price.
what is the point of having to pay a large bit more for seomthing if you get the same service abroad?

Guy:Incognito

Gilgamesh wrote:

imho, I do look for good service, but then again I am not willing to pay for a good salesperson, that is just completely wrong. I am looking for a good price.
what is the point of having to pay a large bit more for seomthing if you get the same service abroad?

What do Komplett charge for shipping on something like a 40"lcd? Cos theres only €100 in orice difference between them and what the sony centre are doing the s series for.

**EDIT, just saw this.
Delivery methods without COD fee
GLS Ireland (3-4 days) 13.25 inc. VAT
DHL (1-2 days) 671.44 inc. VAT

dhl please.

**EDIT**

Ru

Gilgamesh wrote:

imho, I do look for good service, but then again I am not willing to pay for a good salesperson, that is just completely wrong. I am looking for a good price.
what is the point of having to pay a large bit more for seomthing if you get the same service abroad?

I'm a compete hypocrite OKAY !

Just bought myself a 300GB HDD from Komplett.ie

I just want to get out of this on a neutral note.
I’ve gotten completely caught up in this………. And I’m not completely agreeing with any of the comments made (including mine)……..we’re all right and wrong. We got into the economic and moral side of a situation that is uncontrollable.
This reminds me of JVC being sued by the film companies in the 70’s for creating VHS…….they said it would ruin them. They now make more money from home formats than the cinema. How many kids have been sued and there families destroyed because of illegally downloaded music because the music companies were too stupid to embrace music downloads………..


What it boils down to is the internet is the future…………if it wasn’t I’d be on my bike now to get a stamp so you could read my reply…….


bring on 3D baby................ shopping while on the jacks is the way to go!!!!!!

Maxwell

Good recovery there Ru!

Ru

Have a look at this baby..........

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press_Archive/200302/03-008E/

i say it in action at a trade show last march with a BluRay demo of Charlie's Angels 2.

You can quote me on this one......"it's as good as your own eyes"

but the remote is very delicate, i broke it within 10 seconds of holding in front of the head of Sony Europe.......

Ru

Sorry, that's the uber geek page, try this one and click on 006

http://www.qualia.sony.us/qualia_main.cgi

Guy:Incognito

Gilgamesh wrote:

imho, I do look for good service, but then again I am not willing to pay for a good salesperson, that is just completely wrong. I am looking for a good price.
what is the point of having to pay a large bit more for seomthing if you get the same service abroad?

Only problem with that is that if/when highstreet retailers go under , everything you buy will be sight unseen and without any help.

Plus of course a large percentage of the country will be out of work, straining teh economy.:)

Ru

Stekelly wrote:

Only problem with that is that if/when highstreet retailers go under , everything you buy will be sight unseen and without any help.

Plus of course a large percentage of the country will be out of work, straining teh economy.:)

I don't see that happening for a while yet...... can you see your parents shopping on the internet??

By the time it happens you'll probably have a 3D retail envrionment, but of course that'll put the prices back up..................ah for fcuk sake i'm doing it again.............can someone bar me please.......

Gilgamesh

I never really go and look at the stuff I buy anyway, tbh.
I agree with the point about the highstreet and all, but I do not agree that I have to pay, well in this example, nearly 1000 Euros more, when retailers are aware that there is a competition called internet.
simple request even by the irish politicians. SHOP AROUND
that in my ears doesn't mean, stick to ireland but to look for the best deal available to you.

the problem Ireland does have is that there is no competetion by bigger companies, if these were in place, the manufacturers would be able to ship Products to Irelnd for lower prices, hence bringing the prices down.

Maxwell

Gilgamesh wrote:

the problem Ireland does have is that there is no competetion by bigger companies, if these were in place, the manufacturers would be able to ship Products to Irelnd for lower prices, hence bringing the prices down.

That is very true!

Look at the environment we live in - most people will visit the following shops when looking for a new tv/pc/hi fi:

Dixons, Curry's and PC World


........all owned by the same company

Competition is NOT alive and well in Ireland

Ru

Maxwell wrote:

Competition is NOT alive and well in Ireland

Don't forget the Sony Centre's

The ones in Dublin City Centre, Dun Laoighaire and Tallaght are owned by Peat's, and Irish Company

The rest in Dublin and Louth are owned by Hi-Fi Corner, another Irish company

Guy:Incognito

Gilgamesh wrote:

I never really go and look at the stuff I buy anyway, tbh..

OT but how can you buy things like a tv or clothes without tryign them on/looking at the (not nessecarily in that order )?
The whole point of a tv is pcture quality, so how do you know you like it if you dont see it?

Clothes especially as sizes/fitting etc varies.

JimmyL

Stekelly wrote:

OT but how can you buy things like a tv or clothes without tryign them on/looking at the (not nessecarily in that order )?
The whole point of a tv is pcture quality, so how do you know you like it if you dont see it?

Clothes especially as sizes/fitting etc varies.

Easy. Just send them back. My wife is hooked on internet shopping (I knew I shouldn't have shown her...). Anything she doesn't like/fit is sent back. The hugh saving makes up for the cost of sending them back.

Back to TV's, some internet shops will allow return the stuff within 30 days or some, e.g. Technikdirekt - they even pick the bill. Am very tempted to order two TVs for comparison and return one but would obviously have to pay for both to begin with.

Gilgamesh

Stekelly wrote:

OT but how can you buy things like a tv or clothes without tryign them on/looking at the (not nessecarily in that order )?
The whole point of a tv is pcture quality, so how do you know you like it if you dont see it?

Clothes especially as sizes/fitting etc varies.

I think that clothes is the only exception where I would go to a shop.
but Ireland is actually cheaper in most basic clothing than other countries in the EU at this stage.

the way I buy things online, in this case for example is to browse the web, find opinions of people who bought it, have to say avforums.com is a great place for that, and even boards, when it comes to computers.

I have aprincipal that I don't buy 'no namers' either, I stick to well established brands, like Sony, philips or Samsung as an example.
I have been buying these brands for years on end and know which ones I like and which info I can trust from them, compare that with buyers opinions and you've got yourself a sale.

also, on the other side I have to ask, why do you go into a retailer (with a few exceptions) to buy a TV, when you aren't testing the screen to optimum quality or the optimum environment?

most TVs are connected by signla splitters, where I know for a fact that the picture quality can go haywire.

the only place I know where you can get halfway decent demos is the sony shop in O'connel street and Peats, but both of them are selling for over the average prices.

Maxwell

Ru wrote:

Don't forget the Sony Centre's

The ones in Dublin City Centre, Dun Laoighaire and Tallaght are owned by Peat's, and Irish Company

The rest in Dublin and Louth are owned by Hi-Fi Corner, another Irish company

Didn't know that one!

Thanks for that


.....add's weight to my point that there is no competition in Ireland


The amount of people in Ireland that go to Curry's to see a TV and then go and check Dixon's to compare pricing??? Crazy stuff!

Maxwell

Gilgamesh wrote:

also, on the other side I have to ask, why do you go into a retailer (with a few exceptions) to buy a TV, when you aren't testing the screen to optimum quality or the optimum environment?

most TVs are connected by signla splitters, where I know for a fact that the picture quality can go haywire.

the only place I know where you can get halfway decent demos is the sony shop in O'connel street and Peats, but both of them are selling for over the average prices.

A very,very good point!

The amount of stores I went into and none of them would give me a demo - even though I had 3K burning a hole in my pocket! Pure Lazy selling practices from Irish retailers

Gilgamesh

my point exactly, so the factor of going to a local retailer in Ireland is completely out of the wall too, as for why to go to them

Ru

Gilgamesh wrote:

my point exactly, so the factor of going to a local retailer in Ireland is completely out of the wall too, as for why to go to them

You have to keep in mind that most of the people on this forum don't need to go into an actual retail store because we have both technical knowledge and faith in the internet. The other 99% of the population don't understand or trust the internet. And the other side is "what if something goes wrong" who in Ireland is going to take in your Samsung TV if it develops a fault? Powerscity? Dixons... it's hard enough to get them to repair things you buy from them. Never mind an MP3 player you got from Amazon.
You have to start tracking down receipts and call the manufacturer in englishland. And what if it goes faulty after 13 months and you have a 12 month warranty? The retailers i know "hypothetically" could very easily have it fixed under warranty within reason (i.e. not kicked around).
I know of people who bought an i-Pod in the states when you couldn’t get them here and they went faulty exactly when they were 13 months old………they were given absolutely no choice but to buy a new one, P&P and repair costs were more than a new one…….where is the saving if that happens.

Yes yes I know you’re paying for the product and not the retailer, so it shouldn’t go faulty in the first place, but it happens anyway.

Gilgamesh

and that's why I don't buy in the states.

normally only from UK and germany, where,

1. I have relatives and coudl get it sorted through them

and

2. I know the shipping cost and tie is short enough.

Also, every time I had purchased soemthign in IE, and brought it back to the reteiler, they ALWAYS told me thery had to send it in to be looked at, and the shortest time it took to get something repaired was 6 WEEKS!!!!
with an online shop or even most retailers in the UK or germnay, they provide you with the service or courtesy to either provide a replacement or give you a loner for the time, what do you get here? a huge phone bill for having to call up on them all the time

Ru

Gilgamesh wrote:

Also, every time I had purchased soemthign in IE, and brought it back to the reteiler, they ALWAYS told me thery had to send it in to be looked at, and the shortest time it took to get something repaired was 6 WEEKS!!!!

Good point, however the time frame is actually down to the brand and the engineer being used, in my time with Sony you were looking at between 1 - 6 weeks. That was depending on whether parts were needed and availability of those parts; however the guarantee states that if an in-warranty product is not repaired within 28 working days the customer is entitled to a new machine!
Also it's down to the retailer to offer a loan product, it's not compulsory but some do.
But you’re tarring all Irish retailers with the same brush!!!
Just because the people you have dealt with have been prix doesn't mean that all retailers are the same………. It’s like calling all forum users 30 year old computer geeks who live with their mammy because that’s the stereotype!

Your argument on pricing is completely valid and your right, but when you’re talking about customer service for retailers in IE you’re not….. You’re using your personal experiences in a few shops to complain about all of them.


Maybe there should be a thread on this… if someone has a problem with a retailer the consumers should be warned. In time they should fix their policies or loose business.

Gilgamesh

I haven't been generalising one bit as far as I am aware, I have always been talking about my own experience, and for living on the westside (shannon, Limerick, Ennis) and now in Dublin, I have come to a point of been so badly treated by certain retailers, that I am no longer willing to give any other retailer a new chance.

I don't think it is right to assume that I am flogging off al retailers, as I have had good SALES experiences in this country too, but I am more specifically talking about the electronics sales business and the lack thereof here.


will see if a Mod can move this to consumer thread

Ru

I think we should all be generalising.
If your expected to spend money in any retail environment you should feel it's worth the difference. If their staff are plonkers we should know to avoid them

Let me know what the "powers that be" say for a thread on this matter, you'll have my full support.

Ru

Gilgamesh

Hi guys, just thought I would let you know, I bought myself the KLV-V40A10E from Sony, and amazingly enough , I purchased it at an Irish retailer, not from the web, I do have to admit that they threw in the 350 odd Euro glass stand for half price, which made the whole thing worthwhile.
picking it up today, and am itching to get it setup.

cheers for the help guys.

Gilgamesh

JimmyL

Gilgamesh wrote:

Hi guys, just thought I would let you know, I bought myself the KLV-V40A10E from Sony, and amazingly enough , I purchased it at an Irish retailer, not from the web, I do have to admit that they threw in the 350 odd Euro glass stand for half price, which made the whole thing worthwhile.
picking it up today, and am itching to get it setup.

cheers for the help guys.

Gilgamesh

Goes to show that Irish retailers could be competitive if they want to... So don't forget to haggle.

Gilgamesh, don't forget to let us know what the set is like.

Gilgamesh

tbh it took time to get the price out of them, it only happened when the boss came into the shop that I managed to get the deal.
picking it up today with the stand, can't wait to get it setup tonight.
Pity I am flying to germany for a week this saturday, Schnief.
might post some pics when it is setup

yop

Maco - You dog, how are you finding the Samsung?
That is not a bad price from an Irish Website, they are 2600 on Katronics so I still reckon I will go with them.

Gilgamesh

yop wrote:

That is not a bad price from an Irish Website, they are 2600 on Katronics so I still reckon I will go with them.

if this was pointed at me, just have to say, I didn't get it from an Irisch Website, got it from the sony store in Blanch shopping center.
was considering Katronics, but the problem was, I had already put the 3.5 Grand on to my credit card, and Katronics don't take CC. but I am happy, at least I don't have any waiting times, hehe

yop

Gilgamesh, that is interesting about the CC and Katronics, how are you supposed to pay for it then or did you enquire?

Hope TV setup goes well u lucky spud