Bus drivers on mobile phones

dbnavan

A few months back I was on a bus on which the bus driver used his mobile phone for about 80-90% of the hour long journey, texting, making and recieving calls, driving 1 handed while the other hand was on his phone, when I got off the bus I rang head office and asked about the policy and i was told drivers where not allowed use phones even hands free. And instructed that i was entitled to remind the driver of this.

Yesterday i was on the same route when i noticed the same driver on his phone again, so i told him what I had been told and I was concerned for the safety of the passengers, at this point he said 'fine, ok' pulled the bus over on side of the road and got out to continue his call, bus eireann have said they will look into it, however were not interested in taking my name or number, thus i will never hear what happened.

2 questions, what would u have done? Do you feel I am entitled to know their course of action?

dts

Since one of these said bus drivers ran into the back of my stationary car I have a loathing for all of them. They drive too fast and should be reported to the gaurds if seen using a mobile phone whilst driving. Get a picture of it as evidence next time and I am sure they can be done for driving without due care and attention.

Bluetonic

dts wrote:

Get a picture of it as evidence next time and I am sure they can be done for driving without due care and attention.

A picture would hardly be ideal evidence. How can you prove if the bus was stationary or moving?

A video is what you need. Wear a sombrero and fit it with a hidden video camera.

Alun

I've even seen Ambulance and Fire Engine drivers using mobile phones while driving. You'd imagine that of any group of 'professional' drivers, they'd be the ones to realise how dangerous it is.

dts

Now you are thinking. lol!

C_Breeze

dbnavan wrote:

A few months back I was on a bus on which the bus driver used his mobile phone for about 80-90% of the hour long journey, texting, making and recieving calls, driving 1 handed while the other hand was on his phone, when I got off the bus I rang head office and asked about the policy and i was told drivers where not allowed use phones even hands free. And instructed that i was entitled to remind the driver of this.

Yesterday i was on the same route when i noticed the same driver on his phone again, so i told him what I had been told and I was concerned for the safety of the passengers, at this point he said 'fine, ok' pulled the bus over on side of the road and got out to continue his call, bus eireann have said they will look into it, however were not interested in taking my name or number, thus i will never hear what happened.

2 questions, what would u have done? Do you feel I am entitled to know their course of action?

youre still alive arent you?? ....you got there on time didnt you?

stop moaning!

course of action .....pffff - do something better wit your time

Alun

C_Breeze wrote:

youre still alive arent you?? ....you got there on time didnt you?

stop moaning!

course of action .....pffff - do something better wit your time

So you consider that driving while talking on a mobile phone and driving one-handed with a bus full of passengers is OK then, is it?

dts

What!
With a possible 50 lives in your hands not to mention the people outside of the bus?
I say hang the c@#@s for it.

dbnavan

C_Breeze wrote:

youre still alive arent you?? ....you got there on time didnt you?

stop moaning!

course of action .....pffff - do something better wit your time

Actually was delayed 6 minutes while he chatted on phone off the bus, stopped for no other reason

How I choose to spend my time is my business, I dont spend it telling people how to spend theirs.

Stop Moaning.....didnt ask you to read my post, u choose to.

Yes he was endangering lifes driving that size of a bus one handed while talking,

C_Breeze

dbnavan wrote:

Actually was delayed 6 minutes while he chatted on phone off the bus, stopped for no other reason

How I choose to spend my time is my business, I dont spend it telling people how to spend theirs.

Stop Moaning.....didnt ask you to read my post, u choose to.

Yes he was endangering lifes driving that size of a bus one handed while talking,

fair enough i suppose.
but as long as he fullfilled his obligation off getting you from point a to point b, i dont see why you should report him.
becuase he was a "potential" danger on the road

everyone on the road , even the ones not talking on phones are potnetial dangers to each other.
every time u step out of the house youre risking your life .
take that bus that crashed into a bus stop a while back , he wasnt on a phone was he?

what im trying to say is

just coz a bus driver was on a phone doesnt mean he was less aware , than a bus driver not on a phone .

not focusing on the road is just as bad! how focused do u think a bus driver that drives a bus full time, is actually focused on the road ??? ..probably just as little as the guy on the phone . 90% of the time a bus drivers mind is elsewhere. IT's just that you cant see that the guy isnt concentraing - why not report them too .

guy was using a phone - big whoop .
buses are autmatic anyway, so 1 hand is free .

dbnavan

C_Breeze wrote:

fair enough i suppose.
but as long as he fullfilled his obligation off getting you from point a to point b, i dont see why you should report him.
becuase he was a "potential" danger on the road

everyone on the road , even the ones not talking on phones are potnetial dangers to each other.
every time u step out of the house youre risking your life .
take that bus that crashed into a bus stop a while back , he wasnt on a phone was he?

what im trying to say is

just coz a bus driver was on a phone doesnt mean he was less aware , than a bus driver not on a phone .

not focusing on the road is just as bad! how focused do u think a bus driver that drives a bus full time, is actually focused on the road ??? ..probably just as little as the guy on the phone . 90% of the time a bus drivers mind is elsewhere. IT's just that you cant see that the guy isnt concentraing - why not report them too .

guy was using a phone - big whoop .
buses are autmatic anyway, so 1 hand is free .

1) if it didnt endanger lives it would be legal.

2) the steering wheel on a bus is that big should require too hands

3) Bus drivers are not even supposed to talk to passengers while driving

4) It is against company policy

5) It is against irish law

should i go on......


as for

every time u step out of the house youre risking your life

I am aware of that, i dont need someone to risk it for me.

MiniD

C Breeze, the fact that it's illegal should be enough reason for it not to happen. It just takes a split second for an accident to happen... or be prevented. I wonder would you hold the same opinion if your child or partner were killed or injured as a result of a driver who was chatting on his phone. Every driver has a responsibility to give 100% attention to their driving, if you can't comply with that then you shouldn't be driving, especially a bus.

Victor

Write to the local Garda and the bus company.

Bluetonic wrote:

A picture would hardly be ideal evidence.

It might, but be very careful to not distract the driver in the process, especially with a flash.

How can you prove if the bus was stationary or moving?

The exterior would blur if moving, the interior wouldn't.

Red Alert

yes all buses are automatic, and the correct way to drive them is with two hands. for safety however you only need ONE hand.

the driver of a bus clocks up a **** load more miles than most other people on the road, and almost all have impeccable accident records. if you don't like a bus because the driver's on his mobile, wait for the next or buy a car. don't waste the other passengers time hassling the driver - if they're on the bus still then they obviously don't agree with you

C_Breeze

Red Alert wrote:

yes all buses are automatic, and the correct way to drive them is with two hands. for safety however you only need ONE hand.

the driver of a bus clocks up a **** load more miles than most other people on the road, and almost all have impeccable accident records. if you don't like a bus because the driver's on his mobile, wait for the next or buy a car. don't waste the other passengers time hassling the driver - if they're on the bus still then they obviously don't agree with you

Damn right, *applause*

dts

Couldnt agree with you more MiniD.
C Breeze there is no way you can believe that any part of your argument is correct.
Bus drivers should be on a taco like truckers and also better vetting off the staff might be a good idea. Alot of these drivers have been driving busses on quiet Irish roads for years. Now its time to get rid of all those old timers or get them re trained to deal with the high volumes of traffic you get on the country roads today.
Another good idea would be to put speed limiters on the buses to keep them below say 50kph.

dts

So red alert, if I use my car and the bus driver runs into me that ruins your argument?

C_Breeze

dts wrote:

Couldnt agree with you more MiniD.
C Breeze there is no way you can believe that any part of your argument is correct.
Bus drivers should be on a taco like truckers and also better vetting off the staff might be a good idea. Alot of these drivers have been driving busses on quiet Irish roads for years. Now its time to get rid of all those old timers or get them re trained to deal with the high volumes of traffic you get on the country roads today.
Another good idea would be to put speed limiters on the buses to keep them below say 50kph.

below 50kmh ?? ...you do realise that equals 30mph??? HAHA good one.
and i really dont think getting rid of old drivers is that great of an idea is it? ...i mean if anything a new generation would be more familiar with mobile phones and ipods etc. - thats even more distractions.
but offcourse thats just an assumption

dts

30mph is what I was after. At this speeds it is easy to over take them and they pose a lot less of a threat to other road users while distracted by phones and passengers.

Dub13

dts wrote:

30mph is what I was after. At this speeds it is easy to over take them and they pose a lot less of a threat to other road users while distracted by phones and passengers.

And how long to you think it would take to go from Dublin to Cork at 30mph...?

dts

Is there a bus from Dublin to Cork?
I would think the train would be a better option, or use your car?
The other option would be a coach for that sort of distance.
Buses are for the village to town routes to try to get people out of there cars.

Santa Claus

I saw a garda car this morning on my way into work which was in the bus lanes beside me with both Gardai in the front seats on mobile phones !

dts

Typical!
This is just what you come to expect after living here for a couple of years. There is just no respect for the law or anyone else.

kippy

I've noticed this on buses before-not to the extent of spending 90% of a one hour journey on the phone but using the phone while the bus is in motion.
It does worry me-simply for the fact that it is against the law. There is a reason for this......
Bus drivers and drivers of heavy vehicles have an added responsibility in that, as mentioned already, they can do far more damage to both lives and property in an accident than the standard car driver (I dont condone using phones in cars either by the way)
Some of the comments raised by C Breeze and others above dont make any sense in the whole scheme of things.
The laws are there to protect people. Anyone who goes on the road is going to be a potential danger-just being there means the odds of you causing or being involved in an accident rise considerably. But without the extra stimulus of alcohol,phones, excessive speed your are considered a safe driver. So you are a potential danger-however when you break the law by being drunk,speeding or using your phone then you are negligent and can go to jail for it. The chances of you being involved in an accident rise condiserably. Hence the law is there to keep the chances of a driver being involved in an accident as low as possible.
I dont intend to get into arguments about speed controls or traffic death figures but thats why the law is the law.
I didnt report the bus drivers I noticed on the phone but thinking about it afterwards I am sorry that I didnt mention to them that I was not happy with how they were performing their job.
That is what I intend to do in future and if I get any problems I will mention it to their employer.
Going to the guards would not be something that I would do lightly-the driver should have a chance to change his/her ways before that step is taken.
C breeze if you believe this to be acceptable behaviour do you believe that speeding and drink driving are acceptable for a bus driver just because they have been driving for years?

dbnavan

c_Breeze if its so ok? why would it be against the law, or is irish law a load of c**p too?

Victor

dts wrote:

Another good idea would be to put speed limiters on the buses to keep them below say 50kph.

Busses do have speed limiters. I saw a certificate I think 70mph on a coach.

Legally they ar elimited to 80km/h / 50mph.

Nevyn

It's about 35mph on a double decker dublin bus due to the sheer size and mass of them.

Turner

Its not against the law to drive while talking on your mobile phone, there is no specific law to make it an offence.

If however your driving was erratic like crossing a white line, running a stop light or you ended up having an accident it could be used as evidence to secure a "dangerous driving" or "driving without due care and attention" conviction.

The same as if you crashed while eating a burger or drinking from a can of coke. Your actions at the time of driving could be used to prove you were driving without due care and attention.

Alun

Rather oddly, you're right. The question is why? I found this on the DoT website ...

Mobile Phones
Consideration is being given to ways of addressing the road safety dimension of mobile phone use in the light of the advice from the Attorney General that the present regulations may be ultra vires and that primary legislation may be required to regulate for the use of such equipment by drivers. It is likely that any such legislation will address the principles concerned with the safe use of information
and communication technologies in vehicles.

Any idea what 'ultra vires' means? Is this another one of those 'it isn't constitutional' excuses that get trotted out when discussing random breath tests, for example?

EDIT: Just noticed this was from 2004 ... has anything changed in the meantime, and if not, why not?

John R

Thaedydal wrote:

It's about 35mph on a double decker dublin bus due to the sheer size and mass of them.

The speed limit for a double decker is 40mph, they all should have limiters fitted and set to 5-10mph above the limit.
The limit for single deck buses and coaches is 50mph and the limiters are usually set at around 60mph.

Both limits are far too low IMO, I have many times driven a double decker on motorways at 70mph without any problems.

dbnavan

Chief--- wrote:

Its not against the law to drive while talking on your mobile phone, there is no specific law to make it an offence.

Just rang local Garda station, even though there is no law specific to mobile phones, you can be done for not driving with due care and attention

corktina

i believe the limit for Artics is 56mph (90kph?)..i think this MAY only be an advisory limit though.....i expect coaches are similar...

it isnt illegal specifically.to drive whilst on the phone (yet)

ALL drivers should be banned from using the phone...doesnt make sense to pillory Bus Drivers for it, when a car driver doing 120 k's legally on the Mway could loose it whilst on the phone and wipe out a bus and it's load of passengers.

I think that professional drivers , (PSV or HGV) are the safest group of drivers on our roads.....

mackerski

corktina wrote:

I think that professional drivers , (PSV or HGV) are the safest group of drivers on our roads.....

I'd agree about HGV drivers, but the standard of taxi driving I've seen is every bit as poor (taken as an average) as the norm.

Dermot

parsi

Alun wrote:

Rather oddly, you're right. The question is why? I found this on the DoT website ...


Any idea what 'ultra vires' means? Is this another one of those 'it isn't constitutional' excuses that get trotted out when discussing random breath tests, for example?

EDIT: Just noticed this was from 2004 ... has anything changed in the meantime, and if not, why not?

Ultra Vires means "outside your powers" i.e. the Minister couldn't just add the offence it would have to be debated etc in the Dail. (AFAIK, IMHO etc)

Turner

dbnavan wrote:

Just rang local Garda station, even though there is no law specific to mobile phones, you can be done for not driving with due care and attention

Was his driving affected by him talking on his phone, by this i mean could you give evidence in front of a court showing an instance where he put you or the other passengers in danger.

As long as nothing happens while on the phone the driver has nothing to worry about, but he should accept the punishment if something does go wrong. (i wont call it an accident), lets say he rear ends a car or knocks down a cyclist. And is found guilty in a court of careless driving, evidence of being on the phone at the time would help secure a conviction.

Victor

Thaedydal wrote:

It's about 35mph on a double decker dublin bus due to the sheer size and mass of them.

65 km/h / 40mph unless there is a lower limit in place (50km/h, 30km/h).

shltter

John R wrote:

The speed limit for a double decker is 40mph, they all should have limiters fitted and set to 5-10mph above the limit.
The limit for single deck buses and coaches is 50mph and the limiters are usually set at around 60mph.

Both limits are far too low IMO, I have many times driven a double decker on motorways at 70mph without any problems.

Single deckers or coaches with standing passengers are limited to 65kph (40mph)

pork99

dts wrote:

Bus drivers should be on a taco like truckers and also better vetting off the staff might be a good idea.

I assume this driver was with Dublin Bus or Bus Eireann. There's no chance of any control of this sort on drivers in those companies given the strength of their unions.

This is just one more example of the way trade unions are a job protection scheme for the lazy and the incompetent. Try disciplining or firing him and the industrial relations excrement will hit the fan.

He is paid to drive the bus. By using a mobile while driving or by stopping the bus to chat to his mate he is guilty of misconduct. In any well run company your advice to the employer about the misconduct of their employee should have resulted in a formal warning. After that as far as I remember you get two more warnings then you are shown the door.

People's attitude on this thread seems to be the usual slack "ah sure he isn't doing anyone any harm" f-ckwittery we are partial to in this country. No wonder nothing works! We have low standards!

parsi

pork99 wrote:

I assume this driver was with Dublin Bus or Bus Eireann. There's no chance of any control of this sort on drivers in those companies given the strength of their unions.

This is just one more example of the way trade unions are a job protection scheme for the lazy and the incompetent. Try disciplining or firing him and the industrial relations excrement will hit the fan.

You may have a point.

However on the other side we have threads in the Games forum about the alleged sheer ignorance of a manager of a Game store. The posters there say he treats staff like sh** as well and theres no interest in disciplining him and I doubt he would be in a union. And Ryanair are widely reported as not giving a damn for anyone !

It seems to be the case these days that very few companies care about customer service either through perceived union difficulties or through simply not giving a damn...

pork99

parsi wrote:

You may have a point.

However on the other side we have threads in the Games forum about the alleged sheer ignorance of a manager of a Game store. The posters there say he treats staff like sh** as well and theres no interest in disciplining him and I doubt he would be in a union. And Ryanair are widely reported as not giving a damn for anyone !

I have been a victim of David Brent style corporate management therefore I am a self-employed small businessman. That's my choice.

If I chose to I could still be working for a very big corporation. I do not like such organisations. I do not like trade unions either. Therefore I have as little do with either entity as possible. (I appreciate that a lot of poeple don't have a choice.)

However this does not alter the fact that this driver actions demonstrated an abysmal attitude towards customer service. It reminds me of the time I went to the Olympia's box office to spend a few hundred euro on some tickets. The pleb behind the counter half paid attention to me during the transaction while texting someone on his mobile. The sheer ignorance towards a customer that displays - he was lucky that I didn't snatch the phone from him and feck it out the nearest window. If he was my employee I'd fire him.

BuffyBot

I assume this driver was with Dublin Bus or Bus Eireann. There's no chance of any control of this sort on drivers in those companies given the strength of their unions.

This is just one more example of the way trade unions are a job protection scheme for the lazy and the incompetent. Try disciplining or firing him and the industrial relations excrement will hit the fan.

While the unions have many faults, have you any proof that they would defend someone who in a similar situation has broken the law and potentially put passengers at risk and been the subject of disciplinary action?

pork99

BuffyBot wrote:

While the unions have many faults, have you any proof that they would defend someone who in a similar situation has broken the law and potentially put passengers at risk and been the subject of disciplinary action?

I've no evidence whatsoever - I work entirely in the non-unionised private sector where you do your job and give your clients 100% of your attention all the time. If I went to a client meeting and sat there texting someone while the client was trying to give me their specs for the job I'd be out of business pretty quickly.

I do not trust trade unions - I am suspicious of what sort of covert political agendas some unions might have (I would be thinking more of the NBRU than of SIPTU here).

tj-music.com

Red Alert wrote:

yes all buses are automatic, and the correct way to drive them is with two hands. for safety however you only need ONE hand.

the driver of a bus clocks up a **** load more miles than most other people on the road, and almost all have impeccable accident records. if you don't like a bus because the driver's on his mobile, wait for the next or buy a car. don't waste the other passengers time hassling the driver - if they're on the bus still then they obviously don't agree with you

That is so ridiculous! There were/are plenty of mobile phone related accidents, often fatal, that´s one of the reasons why it is forbideen in some countries. Think before you write crap!!

I can´t believe you exist :mad:

BuffyBot

I've no evidence whatsoever

A bit of a fatal flaw in your argument that "there's no chance" of any action being taken then, isn't there?

Dub13

mackerski wrote:

I'd agree about HGV drivers, but the standard of taxi driving I've seen is every bit as poor (taken as an average) as the norm.

A taxi driver is not a professional driver.

John R

corktina wrote:

i believe the limit for Artics is 56mph (90kph?)..i think this MAY only be an advisory limit though.....i expect coaches are similar...

The limit for trucks (including artics) with a DGVW over 3500Kg is 50mph, the same as single decker buses.

corktina wrote:

it isnt illegal specifically.to drive whilst on the phone (yet)

ALL drivers should be banned from using the phone...doesnt make sense to pillory Bus Drivers for it, when a car driver doing 120 k's legally on the Mway could loose it whilst on the phone and wipe out a bus and it's load of passengers.

I agree, it can be very dangerous. Just the other day I saw a woman driver, phone plastered to her ear cruise through a red pedestrian crossing narrowly missing a woman and buggy.

Of course banning it will make feck all difference anyway, most people already think it is banned so you can see what effect that has. It will just be added to the long list of offences that are broken all the time but aren't enforced.

corktina wrote:

I think that professional drivers , (PSV or HGV) are the safest group of drivers on our roads.....

I believe the accident statistics confirm your opinion. They were posted on a similar thread some time ago if anybody is interested.

shltter

pork99 wrote:

I assume this driver was with Dublin Bus or Bus Eireann. There's no chance of any control of this sort on drivers in those companies given the strength of their unions.

This is just one more example of the way trade unions are a job protection scheme for the lazy and the incompetent. Try disciplining or firing him and the industrial relations excrement will hit the fan.

He is paid to drive the bus. By using a mobile while driving or by stopping the bus to chat to his mate he is guilty of misconduct. In any well run company your advice to the employer about the misconduct of their employee should have resulted in a formal warning. After that as far as I remember you get two more warnings then you are shown the door.

People's attitude on this thread seems to be the usual slack "ah sure he isn't doing anyone any harm" f-ckwittery we are partial to in this country. No wonder nothing works! We have low standards!

Well for a start you have no idea what you are talking about drivers are sacked from DB and BE the same as any other company all the unions can do is ensure that the correct procedures are followed which is any employees entitlement.

On the question of the BE driver using the phone obviously he should not be using a phone whilst driving however AFAIK BE have no radio system for contacting there Drivers so drivers use mobile phones to communicate with control regarding delays, mechanical faults, accidents etc etc
So whilst the driver obviously should not use the phone whilst driving it is quite possible that the call he was on outside the bus was work related.

This might also explain BEs alledged reluctance to take details on the OPs complaint as while the companies official policy is against the use of mobile phones the operation of the company may depend on them so rocking the boat on the companies behalf may not be desirable from their point of view

shltter

pork99 wrote:

I've no evidence whatsoever - I work entirely in the non-unionised private sector where you do your job and give your clients 100% of your attention all the time. If I went to a client meeting and sat there texting someone while the client was trying to give me their specs for the job I'd be out of business pretty quickly.

I do not trust trade unions - I am suspicious of what sort of covert political agendas some unions might have (I would be thinking more of the NBRU than of SIPTU here).

LOL what covert political agenda do you believe the NBRU has. The NBRU has no affiliation to any political party unlike SIPTU which is affiliated to the Labour Party.

Again you have clearly demonstrated that you have no idea what you are talking about congratulations that is twice in the one thread.

corktina

John R wrote:

The limit for trucks (including artics) with a DGVW over 3500Kg is 50mph, the same as single decker buses.



are you sure? the advert placed in the papers outlining the various limits when we went to kmph had a little note at the bottom saying "this limit is advisory and does not constitute a legal opinion" I assume from this that the legislation is not in place as per mobile phone usage......

dbnavan

As far as I am concerned anyone who excuses this behaviour, is wrong. Bus Eireann say so, Dublin Bus say so, and the gardai say so.

It's against law and company policy weather you try to excuse it or not.

Besides the law, alot of work places do not allow phone use, could u imagine going to a bank counter and the teller asking you to hold on while they answered the phone or send a text. It is pure lack of professionalism. They are only supposed to do what they are paid to do on company time, if the call was work related, a delay or something call when ur at the next stop.

Or at least use a hands-free kit, this is still against company policy even if its not breaking law,

And a question for anyone who excused it, do you think the driver would have done it had an inspector been on the bus? if no whats the difference, afraid of being caught?

MrPudding

Dub13 wrote:

A taxi driver is not a professional driver.

So what is the profession of a taxi driver?

www.dictionary.com wrote:

Professional

-Engaging in a given activity as a source of livelihood or as a career:

MrP