Multi-discipline inter-club shoot for Charity

les45

Mark, a proposal , Match to be shoot over 60 Rnds, 30 .177, and 30 fullbore pistol. IPSA will provide both full bore pistols and ammunition and range, Wilkinstown to provide airpistols, pellets and targets. .177 at standard 10 mt distance , full bore to be shot on a agreed target, bulls eye type would be fine with us at 25 mts, on a date to be agreed. What do you think !

Sparks

Sounds downright interesting les (so long as it's bullseye targets anyway ). We'd have to hold it a few months from now though - everyone in WTSC is training and gearing up for the Bisley Airgun Championships in eight weeks time, and we'll be dead on our feet for a good fortnight after that one. But after that, it'd make for an interesting setup allright. I'll have a word with the lads about it. Even as a general principle (an aggregate match shot by the same shooters across several different disciplines), it's got a lot of potential...

Sparks

Actually, now that I've had a few minutes to think about it, there's potential there for a large inter-club, cross-discipline match. 30 shots Air Pistol, 20 shots Air Rifle, 20 shots Smallbore prone, 30 shots Fullbore Pistol, 30 clays, and so on - you could get a reasonable course of fire for a beginner from each discipline and make it into a bank holiday weekend aggregate sort of thing. Saturday in WTSC, Sunday in Newry, Monday in Courtlough and a dinner and presentation of silly prizes Monday night somewheres. Definitely worth a thinking-through. Just need to get past Bisley first!

les45

Certainly, that would be a very interesting proposal, for a kick off we could shoot the Air Pistol , Air Rifle, Full Bore Pistol. Easy enough to organise, two sites only, Friday Evening ,Saturday, with a COF 30 AP, 20 AR , 30 FBP.

Sparks

Friday evening wouldn't really be that easy to sort out though les; people getting off work, going out and so on. Saturday/Sunday might work better. Spoke to one of the lads about it on the phone a few minutes ago and he thought it sounded like a good idea as well.

les45

It should be alot of fun, now what are the odds for a IPSA win!!!!!!!!

Sparks

I dunno les, all we need to do is to do this a few times:

les45

The problem is the "few times",but perhaps a small wager to liven up the match ! and if by chance the IPSA did manage to win !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sparks

les45 wrote:

The problem is the "few times"

Ain't that the truth...

,but perhaps a small wager to liven up the match !

Oooo-er missus
What had you in mind?

and if by chance the IPSA did manage to win !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why do I suspect that even now there's a serious training effort swinging into action on your end?

Gun Shy

Sparks wrote:

Why do I suspect that even now there's a serious training effort swinging into action on your end?

Fail to prepare, prepare to fail

Sounds good to me, hows about calling it the Aussie Rules of shooting Sports

Then again IPSA might be able to poach a few converts perhaps even Sparks:)

Les VERY VERY NICE piece of Kit, hows it working out with the CR Speed Holster, really puts my 14 plus 1 to shame dosent it.

Gun Shy

Sparks or Les

Just been thinking should I root out my old leather jocks from my biker days or will my 5.11 Tactical Thong be ok on the day:D

cantona

Please. you will be giving the kids nightmares with images like that

les45

No need to wear the Thong Gun Shy, we will leave the leather gear to the ISSF boys and girls. Format 50 Rnds full bore, shot in 5 strings with a time stipulation to be agreed, we will use a b27 centre on a plain white A3 card, all rounds outside the 9 to score 5 points. shot at 10 mt ,15 mt, 25mt.
Air Rifle 20 rnds format to be agreed, Air Pistol 30 Rnds shot at 10 Mt. I think this is a fair proposal , and we would propse a wager of say €250.00 per team ,winner to donate to a charity of their choice. Full bore pistol shot on Saturday , air events on Sunday, with teams of 10 best 6 to score.

Gun Shy

sPARKS

Perhaps you could rename the thread as I think more might be interested considering the apparent slant its after going along.

Leave it up to you but perhaps something which may generate interest in the shoot off

Looking forward to a few fun days out

Sparks

Won't rename it GS, there's a few people wondering how much more hassle is involved in air pistols, but I'll split it instead 'cos you're right...

les45

Guys, so far we have interest from Wilkinstown Target Shooting Club and the Northern Ireland Target Sports Club, the format proposed is not written in stone, the weekend should be alot of fun and a chance to meet other shooters. If you or your club is interested then PM me to discuss.

Sparks

There's also some interest from Courtlough, les, so we may actually get all three forms of shooting (rifle, pistol, shotgun) in the match!

seamusgi4szw

HI all,
Count me in, maybe I will get a chance to shoot my Feinwerkbeau .177 pistol somewhere yet. Bought it s/h 2 years ago to shoot postal league and have only shot it in fun so far.
Tell me, where is Wilkinstown ???? ok ok I know I,m stupid but I'm from the norf, I can find Dub and Tullamore so I,m not too bad.


byeeeeeeeeee

cantona

Wilkinstown is 5 miles north of Navan, Co. Meath

Sparks

I'll put up a map and some landmark photos on a webpage later seamus. We've time yet - everyone in WTSC is currently tied up with the team going to Bisley in Febuary, so it'll be after that that we do this (well, it'll be warmer then anyway, right?). Probably over a bank holiday weekend if one presents itself in a timely fashion. Any suggestions as to possible dates?

seamusgi4szw

Cheers,
I can find Navan ok, perhaps you could let me know details of when they shoot etc, not much point having the fwb and not using it.
Was in Gibraltar last week and got a visit to the rifle club there, air & .22lr, proper shooting as they say, and would like to try a bit here before I decide whether to apply to join.Done a wee bit in Campbell collage a while back and enjoyed it, mind you I thought it hard work being restrained with the jacket etc, hard on the arms and joints.

Sparks

The range is open every evening seamus, just call out to Wilkinstown, drop into Tiernan's pub (it's at the crossroads, after the railway crossing as you drive north from Navan) and ask for Geoff. He'll look after you. And you may bump into a few of us training up there as well, depending on the day!

skellig

I think a Charity Shoot is a great idea ie good PR and more importantly providing funds for deserving charities.

I brought this subject up with the lads at Midland Ranges yesterday.
It was explained that in the past ten years the Midlands have actually held numerous Charity events and in the past few years they have raised approx 10,000 to 15,000 euro a year for various charities :all very good causes.
Recently one of the affiliated clubs the Cill Dara Clay and Rifle Club held a Charity Shoot for Crumlin Hospital.
I think its great to see other clubs showing an interest in using our sport to benifit those most in need. Well done and Congratulations to all involved!

THe M.N.S.C.I Ranges are available for charity events.
The Irish Wheelchair Association also avail of these ranges during the Summer Months on Week days.

I think it would be a great idea for N.R.A.I , S.S.A.I and other shooting associations to work together and run a huge Charity Shoot over a long Weekend on the M.N.S.C.I Ranges.
These Ranges would be an ideal venue for such an event as they have a sheltered firing line that can cater for 51 shooters comfortably , a Gallery Range for pistol and gallery rifle in both smallbore and fullbore , another Long range with a new Butt system that can cater for 48 shooters and also a clay pigeon layout.
They also have an Authorisation for several club rifles (.22 only) , experienced Range Officers and most importantly 10 years experience in running Charity Shoots (5 or 6 approx per year!!)

Imagine all in one day the shooters from around the country can gather on the M .N.S.C.i Ranges and compete in a big charity Shoot in all different types of Shooting Sports at the one time ie one hundred and eighty two competing at the one time ; an event to aspire to I think!!!! Why not it would be for charity ,a great meeting of all type of shooters. This would make a great annual event.

The M.N.S.C.I are up for it,those of you interested in this should contact your club or association etc and contact the M.N.S.C.I (call on range no. 0506 54643 or fax no 0506 54618)
I have and I would support such an event all the way!!!!!!

boudica

As someone who shoots clays and rifle the MNSCI GROUNDS are more than suitable for any chairty shoot.
They are wheel chair accessable, they have a heated resturant area which has a large wide screne television which has any time i have been there been playing shooting dvd's, it is very cmfortable, to comfortable some say.
It also has vending machines for minerals, coffe and tea.
the last time i was present at a chairty shoot there it was for our ladys childrens hosiptial and the shoot raised 1300 euro, hot food and sandwhiches where laid on by the club.
the MNSCI grounds do this regulary for chairty. They have the experience

SO WHY NOT GIVE THEM A CALL, THEY HAVE ALL YOU NEED.

les45

Thanks to MNSI for the very kind offer of their Range for this competition, the only difficulty would be in relation to visitors using full bore pistols ,unless the pistols were on a club licence. As far as I know MNSI do not have any full bore pistols on their club permit at the moment, again this could be resolved . The situation that applies in Newry is that any visitor can use any club gun or club members gun. This may be a easier alternative . What we need is a agreed competition format, expressions of interest from the various clubs, and a proposed date for the competition.

What about us air shooters???

les45

In fact Psycho, the orginal match concept was a straightforward comp betwenn the " Practical Pistol Shooters " and the ISSF Pistol, with 50 rnds of full bore pistol shot on a bullseye target, 50 rnds of .177 ,20 rifle and 30 pistol. And perhaps we should stick to this format for year one. It is I hope fair to both teams!

Gun Shy

Yeah
Pistol V Pistol gets my vote

Lets stick to the orignial challenge

BOBTHESHOOTER

Hilltop have facility for indoor pistol shooting, they are fully approved by the Gardai and have pistols on the club authorisation, ideal venue, friendly prople and excellent hospitality, why not give Pat Cooke at Hilltop a call.

skellig

Why not O.P theres lots of room for air rifle / pistol on M.N.S.C.I too.
They have a shed there that could cater for that (indoor)
There is room outdoors also I believe but is that popular with Air Rifle?
What about indoor shooting with Air Pistol , Rimfire Pistol and Centrefire Pistol
Do you need a specific type of Air Ventilation for this practice. Are Air Pistol and Centrefire Pistol considered the same in the line of lead exposure hazards (sincere Question)


Les 45 -- Gun Shy I feel I have intruded on this thread with the wrong formats for the type of charity Shoot you are suggesting. However I think you have started something that could prove to be a good multi-discipline inter-club shoot for Charity. I hope you go with the bigger picture and be involved in all formats of shooting events for charity.

Whats important here is to make as much as possible, why not aim as high as we can and prove to everyone that we can all work together for something very worthwhile

Come on lets do it!!!!!!

Sparks

Wow. Okay, this is growing lots of legs here. So far we have WTSC, Newry, Courtlough, MNSCI, and now Hilltop all offering to take part.

Way I figure it, we've got two options here; either we keep it small and simple (WTSC vs IPSA) or we can change the plan slightly and instead of a single weekend, do a kind of Grand Prix as is done on the continent and in the UK. The idea's simple enough. Pick a few seperate weekends, say one per month, and on each weekend, you shoot at a different range with a different discipline. The aggregate is totalled up over the entire course of the GP and we give out small prizes based on gunscore and on points (win, get ten points, come 2nd, get 9 and so on), and the overall winning team decides on the charity that gets all of the €250s that the teams contribute to the pot.

The downside is that it takes longer; the upside is that we get a few nights out (come to WTSC, shoot the match, and we all go out that night; next weekend, come to Newry, same deal; and so on round all the entering clubs). Obviously, as it's for charity, it's a buy-your-own-dinner idea

Also, while I think the idea of the large teams is cool, I think ten might be a bit large; we've 14 shooters going to Bisley from here, but that's the club almost past its limit for serious training. I'm not sure we could get a team of ten together for the duration of the GP, not with other ISSF matches cropping up How about smaller teams, with clubs able to enter more than one team?

PP1

I Think its agreat ida to have a Large meeting of all differient types of shooting disiplins to be carried out on the ranges of the M.N.S.C.I. Ranges for a worthy cause such as a Charity.A National event like this woould be excellent PR for shooting and charity.
Les45 you are right about the MNSCI authorisations ,one of the things they dont have is an authorisation for Club Pistols in fullbore but are getting one for a few .22 pistols.MNSCI will have to settle for that at the moment.Iam not saying there is anything wrong with .22 pistols, they are good fun to shoot and are equally as challenging as centerfire pistols without the knockdown power and bigger bang.
Personally Iwould like to see such an event to happen and be successful. Upto nowon the grounds fo the MNSCI there have been many charity shoots that i am aware of,shot with fullbore ,shotgun ,and .22rifle (it been the most popular).Why not have all these along with pistols and make a charity shoot using all four disiplens in one day one the one range.
I have made enquiries about this with one of the Range Officers on the MNSCI and he reckons it would probaly be better at a National event like this that only licenced pistol holders compete in this evewnt for obvious reasons,''SAFETY'' which is Paramount,
Maybe our Friends in N.Ireland (NITSC.IPSA.) would and most likely will help out in such an event for the same charity on there range prior to the shoot on the MNSCI and with the funds raised add it to the charity fund on the MNSCI and with all the clubs and Associations etc,could gather for one big ptoto with one of thoes big cheques showing everyone how much was raised by all the shooters in Ireland for a worthy cause,by doing this the credit would be shared evenly.
I for one would and will give this my full committment for this to be a success. Please give this idea some though, after all it is for charity.

Sparks

Seems there's a lot more charity work being done by target shooting clubs than most people know about.

Of course, sometimes you get to be more dignified about it than others...


(Still though, that one raised around €1,800 for the Children's Hospital)

cantona

Dont forget that the bigger this event gets, the more problems it generates.For example the Grand Prix idea means that every club and association that gets involved must now plan all their activities well in advance and with regard to everyone else.This is necessary so as not to have conflicting events on at the same time.Can all clubs, at the moment, be sure of their commitments over the next 6-8 months?

Sparks

Therein lies the weakness of the idea cantona. Each club would only have to plan one weekend, but the shooters would have to go to all weekends. Unless we allowed teams to vary, but that could be abused with the "pinch hitter" approach. And hosting the entire event on one day in one range means that everyone's so busy running from event to event and so tired at day's end, that the social side is lost completely.
*sigh*
Not a trivial problem in logistics, this.

civdef

This match is after suffering "mission creep" in a most dramatric fashion!

It has gone from an ego match between Sparks and Les45 into Liveaid!

Might be an idea to start small, assess feasibility and move on from there....

Sparks

civdef wrote:

Might be an idea to start small, assess feasibility and move on from there....

Nonsense. Just give us your f***ing money, allright?

PP1

The only weakness in this idea is in the commitment from the shooters. Drop the egos lads.The range is there to run this, the people are there to do this properly.This is for charity not for credit.

Sparks

Committment from shooters over a range of several matches isn't necessarily about ego PP1. For example, if you arranged this and had it all running for Feb 18/19, you just wouldn't get any NTSA shooters because all the WTSC shooters are going to Bisley and have been training for it for months, and the other NTSA shooters will be in UCD for their open. Likewise there will be other bad dates for other shooters. And if you're going to pick several weekends in a row... well, it gets difficult to find good dates. Remember, serious shooters will be in long term training programmes as well as having local matches to take care of and other committments as well!

skellig

Loss of social side , local matches , other commitments ,serious shooters, pistol only, tournaments, weekends of shooting , preperations , lots of training etc.
The list goes on,I find all this a bit on the negative side towards running a simple shoot for charity.

Lets just simplify all this!!

---Take a look at all calender of Shooting events so as not to clash with popular events (club, nationally , internationaly)

---Other events such as soccer , GAA ,other popular sports,("mothers Day" believe it or not)
Come on Lads surely there is one Sunday in 2006 that will be suitable. In regard to the serious shooters surely one day of shooting for Charity can be arranged and even if they cant make it this wouldnt be a big financial loss as the National association shoots under the S.S.A.I dont have a lot competing in them. To be honest only a minority of shooters actually compete in National or International Shoots.

My experiences of shooting at Charity Events on the M.N.S.C.I were great crack, nobody takes it serious ,its just a fun shoot for a particular good cause. Its only happened on one occasion at a local charity event where the majority of shooters were non target shooters. All the shooters taking part used Club Rifles and the same Ammo. Unfortunately there was one "serious" target shooter who refused to use a club rifle and Ammo. He used a Target Rifle and his own Ammo and the obvious happened the big hero won,so maybe with this type of Charity shoot we could have a serious section also if it suits.

Charity Shoots are so easy to run especially in this type of event where the majority of shooters are experienced

You dont have to enter every competition on the day either and if you cant make it just send on your entry fee anyhow. Ive seen this done in all the Charity Shoots. Think about it its not about winning or for fun ; only about making money and anything after that is just a bonus.


Lets fix a date and gather a large meeting its as simple as that. Anyone that that has witnessed it in the Midlands will verify that.

What do you think???

PS (corrections pp1 )the I.P.S.A as you stated do not belong to Northern Ireland only. It was formed and financed by the lads in Northern Ireland for both the North and the Republic . I.P.S.A home ground is in Newry and they are the N.G.B for practical pistol

Gun Shy

Various matches held over different weekends would not be suitable to all, for a lot of the reasons Sparks has put up and also from my own personal point by having to work every second weekend, having a one year old at home and the BOSS to contend with.

Really like the principal of an inter club shoot but until we have one range that can meet all the requirements ie centrefire, air etc as club pistols then it will have to be split.

Part of the challenge is (and was never EGO) allowing fellow shooters take part in a style of shooting that they havent tried to before or are unable to do so because of legal requirements and fostering a greater and better understanding between our closest relatives!!!!!!!!!! and hopefully blood will be thicker than water if it ever comes time to circle the wagons. The other parts being the Charity and the Good PR.

Yes I do think it is being turned into Live Aid and although a great idea its too soon and too complicated to run just yet lets come back to it when we can run it on one Range

At present (Please correct me) the only range that I know of that has club pistols (Fullbore) is Newry so that has to be choice number one.

Open to further suggestions on format etc.

Thoughts anyone

Gun Shy

skellig wrote:

PS (corrections pp1 )the I.P.S.A as you stated do not belong to Northern Ireland only. It was formed and financed by the lads in Northern Ireland for both the North and the Republic . I.P.S.A home ground is in Newry and they are the N.G.B for practical pistol

IPSA was formed as the NGB for PP in Southern Ireland and is recognised as such by IPSC in Canada

IPSA is totally independant from Northern Ireland and the UKPSA and likewise NITSA

IPSA would probably not be here but for the Help, Guidance and support of NITSA and we welcome their continued support and are grateful for this , but the lads in Northern Ireland did not finance the formation of IPSA.

IPSA was formed by members of NITSA who were from the south and it was initially financed out of their own pockets as the membership has grown most of these expences have been repaid (NOT ALL) ie affiliation fees to Canada $600 etc

Membership is open to both North and South and it is roughly an even split with roughly 40 from each side of the border.

IPSA is Southern Ireland based and is open to offers as to the location of a home range as we have no home range at present.

IPSA Homepage http://www.ipsc-ireland.org/
IPSA Newsletter check it out on the News Page

Some others might want to join in

Sparks

It is getting a bit too complicated to start from allright!

Okay, so let's take this one step at a time. First off, let's drop air rifle - it would be too difficult to get everyone kitted out and the rifles customised to each shooter. Air pistol, fullbore pistol, and perhaps shotgun if the timing allows - each of those three can be shot without enormous amounts of customisation. No reason we can't have another match later with more events, but let's just try it with this and see how it goes.

Suggestions for dates? Ideally, we'd want a bank holiday weekend I'd think. If that's not possible, we'll just pick a normal weekend and drop shotgun Has to be after Feb 19 or WTSC can't attend Any other constraints?

les45

June Bank Holiday Weekend, Saturday Full Bore Pistol, Sunday Air Pistol!

Sparks

Looks good from here les. Nothing on that weekend for us (well, the Milan World Cup, but no-one's in training for that now, so it's too late already if they wanted to go). Plus, it's far enough out to get some training in between then and now in shooting these pistol thingies
So,

Sat June 3 : Fullbore pistol, Newry
Sun June 4 : ISSF Air pistol, Wilkinstown
Mon June 5 : Shotgun, Courtlough (to be confirmed with our man in courtlough)
Monday Night : Dinner & Presentation of daft prizes somewhere.

Say 30 rounds in each course of fire? That should be long enough to get a bit of a points spread but short enough not to destroy anyone who's not used to the discipline.

les45

Sounds good, and again 30 Rounds is fair to all. It should be great fun for all involved. Teams of 6 best 4 scores to count!

Sparks

Teams of six sounds fine as well. We might even get two teams to enter if we're lucky. Say €30 per head entry fee, all proceeds to the charity of choice of the overall winning team (decided by aggregate gunscore?), all entries to be sorted out a few days ahead of time so someone can go do PR stuff with the papers (bank holiday weekends are dead time for news cycles usually for some reason).

About the scoring - ISSF AP targets are scored from 0 to 10 points. How are your bullseye targets scored? And for the clays, how many points per clay?

Course of fire for the ISSF AP would be:
2 sighting cards, as many sighters as you want;
15 competition cards, two shots per card;

10 mins preperation time prior to the published start time - no air may be discharged but you may dry-fire the pistol;
1 hour total time for the 30 shots (this works out at 15 mins for sighting and 90 seconds per competition shot most of the time);

(The ISSF AP rules are here if anyone's interested)

skellig

MMM A Range to run it on, mmm let me see Gun Shy. At the moment id say the M.N.S.C.I Ranges,fair enough there isnt another range in the Country to match it so why not where its most possible to happen!!
Live Aid? I had no problem with that event it certainly raised a lot of money for those in need.

I understand your valid reasons for in wanting new people in this great sport but it doesnt have to be their first time in a charity event. It can be anytime in Newry or even other ranges in Northern Ireland. Surely you must agree that to turn your back on a possible way to raise a lot of money just because a handful of people without pistols cant partcipate,---sorry this is not a valid reason to split from it Gun Shy!!

Think positive maybe the local superintendent might give a one day authorisation for such an event,if so would you consider the M.N.S.C.I a venue for such an event? Of course you would have to agree that it wouldnt be possible for first time pistol shooters to shot practical pstol with movement etc. It would have to be bullseye shooting with one shooter to one range officer only.

Like you I too am open to suggestions especially positive ones.
I fail to see why you think its too complicated to run,like I said before the lads at the M.N.S.C.I have the required experience in all aspects of the sport that would faclitate an all round charity shoot on a complex that can facilitate several different types of shooting format. Its so simple!!

Just be Gun Shy by name, not by nature (which Im sure is the case)

Sparks

No reason we can't do this every bank holiday or every other bank holiday skellig - and frankly, we've left a lot of disciplines out this time like fullbore rifle, black powder, air rifle, smallbore pistol, and a dozen more I'll bet. But for the first time, keeping it simple would seem to be the key to success. Let's get it to work the first time and make plans for the next time; after all, you rarely see competitive matches on bank holidays for some reason, so why not use them for a good cause - both in terms of raising money for charity and in terms of fostering better inter-community relations?

So for June: Newry, Wilkinstown, Courtlough;
for August 5/6/7: MNSCI and others? (okay, ISSF people are conflicting there with the Comber Open, World Championships and GB Junior International, but you'll still get a good few going)
for October 28/29/30: ?

skellig

Gun Shy
I.P.S.A in not the N.G.B for Southern Ireland id check on that one again if I were you
Contact the I.P.S.A for clarification.

"I.P.S.A open for offers for a location of a home range" that sounds like another rifle Association that was formed without a range behind it.

Seriously I did think the range in Newry was the home range of I.P.S.A --Fair enough I know its in another country not so far away on the same Island and Ive no problem with that at all. Why not Newry as the home Range after all I.P.S.A derived and was founded there.I know they have been very helpful and passed on their experiences also. Im sure as time goes by I.P.S.A will most likely alocate their own range which shouldnt be so difficult on account of size needed. Best of luck in the future I.P.S.A The more ranges built in this country the better and stronger our sport will get.

Imagine Croke Park being the only pitch in Ireland what good would the G.A.A be---get my drift!!

skellig

I dont think so Sparks it couldnt be any simpler.
Why drop Air Rifle or why go through all the hassle of customisation.
The type of Charity Shoot Im familiar with is just a load of fun for all ;that makes good money for Charity
For those that are customised leave that way on the day so that those that havent seen this before can actually watch with interest and Im sure ask questions about this sport to which Im sure they will get welcome answers and advice. It would be a great advertisment for all shooting sports.

A Bank Holiday is not a good choice for a charity shoot going on past experiences of the M.N.S.C.I A lot of people go on family outings on these weekends even Mothers Day believe it or not
Its important to pick the right day in order to maximise the amount of entries especially when its for Charity
Im sure there is a date somewhere in 2006 that this can happen.

Black Powder Id love to see as well Sparks even a welly throwing competition for charity
For Gods sake how simple can I make it .Ive tried my best