Homebrew Beer Howto

bigears

Oh sh1t!!

How was the tax applied? Was it a fixed percentage? It's worth knowing what to factor in if ordering from there.

Was it sent by courier?

oblivious

Sorry to hear about the Tax’s

guildofevil

So you know what the rate is like, the order total was $209.70, which is €164.20. The tax is the tax due is €52.33. I can't remember the shipping off hand.

I know what mistake I made, that caused me to pop up on the tax man's radar. I insured the items.

But, this just gets better and this bit is down to An Post, not Customs and Excise.

As I didn't have €52.33 in cash this morning when they tried to deliver the parcel, (no they won't take a cheque, or VISA) I have to go to the parcel office and collect it. And as the parcel was insured, they didn't bring it to my local post office in Phibsborough, oh no. Séan, who doesn't have a car, has to collect this stuff from the depot in Kilbarrack.

An Post run a wonderful service, don't they? I have no idea why people use couriers.

That's the last time I insure a parcel, I can tell you.

Séan

bigears

Wonderful service.

Can you ask them to deliver it to your door again and pay them the cash then? Normally they will 'redeliver' if you can't come and collect but I'm not sure if this applies where it's gone off to Kilbarrack depot.

The Sweeper

Incidentally, part of the charge incurred through taxes can be an administration fee charged by the courier company for having to do customs administration with your kit.

Getting stung for tax on imports is FAR more likely to happen when purchasing from the US for shipment into the UK or Ireland than it is shipping into Ireland from the UK or mainland Europe. I'm not sure if that's because of the trade barriers within Europe having been dropped, but I suppose it could be.

I have had to pay tax on every single thing I've ever had shipped from the US. If your kit is:

New.
Described and declared on the waybill as being of a certain value.
Insured.

You'll get hit for tax coming through customs. A note on insurance: if you're getting an item sent from the US and the shipper will be putting a description of the goods and their value on the waybill (as they're required to by law I believe), you'll get hit for tax either way so there's no point skimping on insurance to try and dodge a fee from the customs man. All that'll happen is you leave yourself open to risk if the goods go awol (unless you've used your credit card and such things are covered automatically on your credit card insurance).

guildofevil

Trade barriers have been taken down within the EU, so customs have no business charging you tax on an item purchased in another EU country. Even where the VAT rate is different in the country of origin, you pay the VAT there and therefore cannot be asked to pay it here too.

If the vendor does more than about €500,000 per year (figure off the top of my head, so don't quote me on that) of trade with customers in another EU country, Ireland for instance, they have to get a local VAT representative and charge those customers Irish VAT, AT POINT OF SALE. So even in that case, customs have no business charging you extra, once the goods have been shipped.

None of this helps me though, as northern brewer is in the US.

When I had cornies shipped from the US, they did put the item description, value and shipping cost on the airway bill, but I still wasn't hit for tax. That and the fact that insured items appear to be treated differently, makes me a little suspicious of taking out insurance again.

Minesajackdaniels wrote:

unless you've used your credit card and such things are covered automatically on your credit card insurance.

I didn't know that about credit cards. Are you sure that is all credit card companies? If so, I didn't even have to insure the item, as I DID pay with my VISA card.

Séan

The Sweeper

Cool on the clarification on the euro shipping.

Check with your card company regarding your insurance - often times it's in the small print as a value add service, that you don't have to pay for, depending on what sort of card you have (as in gold, platinum, grade A customer or whatever, as opposed to just Visa or Mastercard) and covers you for loss of goods or breakage of purchases in transit etc.

I have a feeling you may have just gotten luckie getting cornies shipped with no customs hit. I get hit every goddamned time I have something shipped - insured or otherwise.

oblivious

Hi all

I just though I would post this article form the BYO, it’s a comprehensive guide to the several of extract home brewing such as concentrated boil, late extract method and Texas two step and there are recipes included.

http://www.byo.com/feature/1510.html

Ceddy

Hi, great to see that there is brew talk alive and kicking over here.

I use to work in a Firkin brewery in London over 10 years ago and we use to produce 1000lts a brew. I have been toying with the idea of starting to do a bit of home brewing for the last year. But after reading this thread this has really twisted my arm.

A friend of mine back in the UK used to use 2 Burca Boilers (1 to boil his liqour, 1 to use as a kettle for hopping) I think these were 50 lt vessels.

He was a great man for using muslin in the mash. He knocked up a sprinkler that could sit on top of his mash tun above the suspended muslin grain bag. He would initially submerge the muslin with 1/3 of the liquor and then sparge (more of a slow drip of water) with the other 2/3 liqour.

He would then boil the wort with hops in his second burca boiler.

He had a modified keg to cool the wort on way to his fermenting tank. The keg had a cooper/aluminimum ring inside which the wort would circulate through. Cold water was constanly piped through the keg to prevent it heating up.

This guy made a great Oatmeal Stout which I have to say was better than an pint of stout I tasted, and I aint saying that cos It was free

He also made a cider from Tesco Apple Juice that was superb but pretty strong.

Sorry for the ramblings or if I have misused terminology.

Hope to be up and running as soon as equipment is acquired.

On another note there is a guy on E-bay who does home brew courses in Brighouse, West Yorkshire. These are weekend courses and he only charges £35. Accomadation & travel extra. Its certainly interest to me.

bigears

Hi Ceddy,

Sounds like you'll have plenty to add to the forum. 50 litre boilers - now that's brewing

oblivious

Nice to see a hardcore brewer on the boards, Charlie Papazian had lot of praise for the Firkin brewery in this new book.

Ceddy

Where is the best place to pick up kit in Dublin ?

I have seen references to Beer Smugglers & Grape and Vine which are both in Dublin.

There use to be a Brew shop in Kingston in Surrey which was great for picking up gadgets and the guy running it was good with advice. By the looks of it very much along the same lines as the Hop Shop in Plymouth that a few of you guys have purchased from.

I say some 250ml Grolsch bottles last week with the porcelain rubber caps. These are great and reusable.

Hendrixcat

Don't use the beersmugglers website, it hasn't worked for a while. Grape 'n' grain are probably best for the basics. The old guy running it will deliver to your door during the day if you can be around to meet him.

oblivious

I agree with Hendrixcat grape and grain are best for most stuff, equipment, liquid extract, base malt (3kg bags) and some limited specialty grains. For more selection of grain and yeast I use http://www.hopandgrape.co.uk/

bigears

The Beersmugglers site worked for me but I haven't ordered online from them - I've always emailed. I find it handy sometimes as he delivers to a local hardware shop where I can pick it up and I can pay them. Grape n Grain I find very helpful and they are willing to order something if they don't have it in stock, however I think they do deliveries only, no postage.

I sometimes use Hop and Grape and find them very good. They have a large range, fresh ingredients and they offer good advice. I would say if you're ordering from the UK to either order light so postage isn't an issue or order a whole load at once. For what it's worth they told me this week that they now have a new deal with their courier - £17 STG for up to 30 KG which isn't bad if you fill your 30KG. I haven't got to the stage where I'm brewing all grain but if you're ordering your 25KG bag of grain it becomes quite cost effective compared to ordering locally. I've ordered small amounts of grain from them before and they will send it uncrushed or crush it 'fresh' just before sending.

oblivious

Although the say the only deliver in Dublin this is for home or business deliveries. They can arrange for people who live out side of Dublin to meet up in an agreed area near the city.

The Sweeper

Ceddy wrote:

There use to be a Brew shop in Kingston in Surrey which was great for picking up gadgets and the guy running it was good with advice.

ooo - is it still there? And if so, where is it? Kingston's just down the road from me, I'm there a good bit.

oblivious

is it the Art of Brewing?

www.art-of-brewing.co.uk

guildofevil

3Kg bags of base malt? Lightweight! I get 25Kg bags off them.

I agree with the posts so far. Grape N Grain are the way to go. Nice, accommodating people. I also use www.hopshopuk.com for lighter but more specialized stuff, like hops, yeast, etc.

If I had the money to spare, I would get a pilot brew system from these people: www.mossbrew.co.uk £2,500 for a very nice 80-90l system.

You can see a pic of one here: http://www.mossbrew.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/images/unclestuart1.jpg

bigears

How much are the 25KG bags? I didn't know they did them and I wonder how the price compares - The 3KG bags are 8.95.

oblivious

I still only do partial mash and 3kg of malt is plenty for a brew, including late addition of extract. I though the only sold their crushed malt in 3 kg bags, so I buy a few at a time, or can they supply larger amounts?

Ceddy

MinesBIGSLUT wrote:

ooo - is it still there? And if so, where is it? Kingston's just down the road from me, I'm there a good bit.

Its on Richmond Road, beside the Grey Horse (Youngs Pub)

Ceddy

oblivious wrote:

is it the Art of Brewing?

www.art-of-brewing.co.uk

thats the one

Ceddy

guildofevil wrote:

3Kg bags of base malt? Lightweight! I get 25Kg bags off them.

I agree with the posts so far. Grape N Grain are the way to go. Nice, accommodating people. I also use www.hopshopuk.com for lighter but more specialized stuff, like hops, yeast, etc.

If I had the money to spare, I would get a pilot brew system from these people: www.mossbrew.co.uk £2,500 for a very nice 80-90l system.

You can see a pic of one here: http://www.mossbrew.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/images/unclestuart1.jpg

Now thats some operation. Although I have to say for that kind of outlay you would need to be selling some of your brew to help with the cost.

Speaking of which does anyone know what the story is with licensing of micro-breweries in Ireland ?

There are some restrictions in the UK but these are pretty basic and relate to health issues, such as storage and condition of your brew facilities.

guildofevil

bigears wrote:

How much are the 25KG bags?

€49.50 not including delivery.

Ceddy wrote:

Now thats some operation. Although I have to say for that kind of outlay you would need to be selling some of your brew to help with the cost.

Yeah, I know, but it's like wanting that really nice car. You don't really NEED it but...

The set-up in question is their entry level rig. They specialize in making microbrewery kit to order. They have their own brew pub and they provide training by taking you into their brew house and getting you to assist. I must say I really like the sound of their operation. It looks a bit rough and ready, but I kind of like that too.

Ceddy wrote:

Speaking of which does anyone know what the story is with licensing of micro-breweries in Ireland ?

There are some restrictions in the UK but these are pretty basic and relate to health issues, such as storage and condition of your brew facilities.

I would love to know this too. It is my ambition to make my obsession a career, so if anyone knows who I could ask about this, please shout out.

oblivious

Are the 25kg bags crushed or whole grain? the 3kg bags are crushed.

guildofevil

The 25Kg bags are also crushed.

bigears

Definitely better value than the 3kg bags. I get the impression you got through them pretty quick but how long do you reckon the crushed grain would last - I have heard previously that crushed grain has a much shorter shelf life and the bags that I have got from GnG are not crushed by them, they've been crushed by Young's before distribution.

Ceddy

The shelf life of the malt has alot to do with the way you store it. If you can keep it in a warm environment rather than the shed it will last alot longer. Sub dividing it into smaller amounts and storing in the sealable sandwich bags will also help.

I was over in Nottingham recently and popped into the VAT & Fiddle which has a brewery built at the back of it. It is owned by the Tynemill group. The guys were very helpful and gave me a list of their suppliers for ingredients & equipment. I will post full when I get a chance. Wee Brewerys like these are worth a visit just to get a bigger picture of whats involved.

The only thing with this again is the postage and delivery to Ireland, which will almost double the price of the Item. One of the suppliers is www.murphyandson.co.uk I have not contacted them yet but they may have a agent in Ireland.

There must be a wholesaler in Ireland who supplies the Guinness, Heineken, Murphy & Beamish brewerys ? I now that none of us are up to this scale yet but I am sure they would sell the 25k bags individually.

Does anyone have contact with any of the mini brewers like the Porterhouse/ Carlow Brew Co/Biddy Early/Hilden Brewery/Whitewater or Strangford Lough breweries as to find where they are supplied from ?

Ceddy

Is there anyone who is doing the full mash do a second run on grains in the mash tun, so that you are producing two sets of wort at different OG's ?

guildofevil

Same with these. They are 25Kg, stitch closed, woven nylon sacks of Young's pale malt. I keep the sack in a large plastic container, to help keep it fresh.

I have heard horror stories about the stuff going off, but I've never had any trouble myself. The best before date on it is usually just under a year in the future, at time of purchase.

guildofevil

Ceddy wrote:

Is there anyone who is doing the full mash do a second run on grains in the mash tun, so that you are producing two sets of wort at different OG's ?

No. Even when I batch sparge I combine the first and second runnings for a single beer.

I would like to give this a try, as it would be a handy way of making a BIG beer and a standard strength beer, but I don't really have the space to have two primaries going at the same time.

bigears

Is there anyone who is doing the full mash do a second run on grains in the mash tun, so that you are producing two sets of wort at different OG's ?

I read about this just recently on Anchor Brewing's website but they state themselves that this was relatively common in English Brewing. They make their 'small' beer by doing a second mash on their barley wine:

http://www.anchorbrewing.com/beers/smallbeer.htm

oblivious

I think it called parti-gyle. I have head of some brew doing big barely wine and there is some much first running, the second running, which have a lower gravity is used to make a brown ale or bitter. I think a small beer in medieval times was the third running with a gravity of around 1.030 or 2-3% alcohol.

Here is a link

http://brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue2.2/mosher.html

Ceddy

oblivious wrote:

I think a small beer in medieval times was the third running with a gravity of around 1.030 or 2-3% alcohol.

We would add some chocolate malt and then re-mash again. Producing a Darker and weaker second brew. Then sell it off as mild, it was a great seller with the OAP's.

oblivious

The late mash addition of chocolate malt is supposed to added a nice flavour with much of hash flavour that can be associated with highly kilned malts aroma or so i have heard.

guildofevil

This is starting to sound pretty good.

Damn it, I need more space for more fermentors!

Ceddy

I was just thinking during the week about making cheap fermenters :

I was passing a chip shop the other day and I noticed that their rubbish was out for collection by the local refuse company. They had both Metal containers I assume they were 5 gallon containers with lids on the tops and also various plastic containers varying in size from 2-5.

As these vessels were used for foodstuffs of some description they would be ideal for brewing after a good degreasing, rinse and sanitise.

By carefully inserting a 2ft polytheon pipe 10mm into a 8-9mm opening with a bull clip/stong clothes peg at the other end of the pipe then this could be used to replicate an airlock. Very little if any air would get in and air could be released by briefly removing the clip/peg for a while.

This gets round the cost of having to buy new fermenters ?

Anyone any views on this ?

guildofevil

That works. I used to use a plastic bucket which originally contained mayonnaise. It was exactly the same as the commercially available plastic fermentation buckets, except that it was made of slightly thicker plastic and the lid sealed tighter, so it was probably better.

Instead of a clip on the tube, why not use a blow-off tube? You just stick the end in a bottle of water, so the co2 bubbles out through the water, but no air can get in. I have done this before and it works really well.

Ceddy

guildofevil wrote:

Instead of a clip on the tube, why not use a blow-off tube?

Is this the same as a polythene tube but summerged in water ?

guildofevil

Yes. It's just a tube coming from the top of the vessel into some water.

Random pic off the net to give you the general idea what I'm talking about:

http://webusers.physics.umn.edu/~nmoore/beer-log/beer_color.2.march13.jpeg

Ceddy

guildofevil wrote:

Yes. It's just a tube coming from the top of the vessel into some water.

Random pic off the net to give you the general idea what I'm talking about:

http://webusers.physics.umn.edu/~nmoore/beer-log/beer_color.2.march13.jpeg

Excellent, cheers for this guildofevil. Assuming that I can get tubes the right width then i can use the water dispender bottles that were mentioned by a previous poster.

oconn

anyone have a rough idea hwo many people brew in ireland ?
is there any ( get togethers ?) eg competitions not for me but they'd be great crack to see / taste other brews !

Hendrixcat

I have wondered this myself. I'm inclined to think it's really not that many. The paucity of decent homebrew suppliers in Ireland points towards the lack of market here. A better appreciation of beer and the growing diversity of good craft beer here will inevitably lead to an increase in homebrewing in Ireland. I hope so, anyway.

Conar

Hey all.
I'm looking to buy myself some pretty basic homebrew kit and see how I get on. I might get into it more and improve the kit but I don't wat to jump straight in without trying it a little first.
I've picked out the following, can anyone advise if this is a good selection for starting or criticise any choice?

BEER BEGINNERS EQUIPMENT STARTER KIT
http://www.art-of-brewing.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss000006.pl?PRODREF=308&NOLOGIN=1

PET PLASTIC CLEAR BEER BOTTLE 1000ml x24 (or should I buy a King Keg top tap barrel????)
http://www.art-of-brewing.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss000006.pl?PRODREF=637&NOLOGIN=1

RITCHIE BEER FININGS SACHET 35g, for 5 gallons x 3
http://www.art-of-brewing.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss000006.pl?PRODREF=1228&NOLOGIN=1

WINE & BEER HYDROMETER
http://www.art-of-brewing.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss000006.pl?PRODREF=879&NOLOGIN=1

CAMPDEN TABLETS - 125
http://www.art-of-brewing.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss000006.pl?PRODREF=1091&NOLOGIN=1

GLUCOSE POWDER - 1Kg x3
http://www.art-of-brewing.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss000006.pl?PRODREF=331&NOLOGIN=1

MUNTONS SANTA'S WINTER WARMER 3.6k
http://www.art-of-brewing.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss000006.pl?PRODREF=1557&NOLOGIN=1

BREWFERM DARK ABBEY (ABDIJ) BEER 9 litres
http://www.art-of-brewing.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss000006.pl?PRODREF=256&NOLOGIN=1

Should I also get a secondary fermentation bucket? I see this mentioned by some people but others don't seem to use it.
Anyway, how does that look to get me started?

beardybrewer

I started with this kit and its okay but was missing a lot of Items. This means unless you're in Dublin you'll feel some pain as you wait to order missing parts.

I would consider the wine starter kit because the fermenter is far superior to the bucket. It allows for a proper seal which the bucket is not capable of. I now just use my bucket when I bottle (I add the priming sugar melted in a pint of water to the bucket and then siphon from my fermenter).

There are some good posts on this thread plus other good threads which give a good list of equipment to get. I'd search myself but then I'm lazy and not the one asking Seriously though you'll want: properly sealing fermenter, bucket with tap, iodophor or other sterilizing agent, hydrometer, thermometer, large stock pot, siphon, bottling wand, brewing sugar, paddle/wooden spoon, large funnel, and 40 bottles. I'm probably forgetting several things so do a search and look thru this thread to find those posts.

Your kit choices look good, although I usually do 2 Brewferms at once. Their Triple is very nice although not available from art-o-brew.

noby

On the other hand, I have never used a proper sealing fermenter, just a bucket with a lid. This works perfectly fine.

For a first time with a basic kit you have more than enough, providing there's some steriliser coming with it. A lot of the equipment newkie lists out you'll probably gather together for subsequent brews

bigears

I've used both the fermenter and the bucket and they both have advantages. For a beginner there's a thrill in using the airlock with the fermenter that you just can't beat. You'll find yourself checking that little bubbler every time you walk past it I've recently switched to using the bucket with lid and I prefer it. For one thing it's easier to clean.

One thing I would recommend is to get a tap added to your fermenter or bucket as it makes things much easier. You can buy the tap and fit it yourself or the homebrew shop might fit it for you for a couple of quid extra. I can't comment on those particular kits as I haven't used them, but if you like the style of beer that the kit is aiming for then go for it.

Conar

Thanks for the advice guys.
I went for that gear anyway and a few extra bits like "A blend of spraydried dextrose and spraydried malt extract" instead of the glucose. Does this make much difference?

Whats the quickest I could have a few beers ready?
Would there be any chance I could have some ready to drink in 3 weeks?
I'm just using the packs and would like to let the beer mature a bit in future but I'd love some before the end of the year.

beardybrewer

Conar wrote:

I went for that gear anyway and a few extra bits like "A blend of spraydried dextrose and spraydried malt extract" instead of the glucose. Does this make much difference?

Whats the quickest I could have a few beers ready?

Sounds like you went for Muntons Beerkit Enhancer. This will give you a bit more body than just plain sugar. As for whether to use sugar/enhancer/malt extract it depends on the beer style and your personal preference. If it was a bock, porter, or stout I would prefer a lot of body and use all malt. Whereas a refreshing bitter, maybe I wouldn't care as much. Take a look at the 3kg kits. These typically only require sugar for priming and are the top of the range kits.

In regards to how soon, 3 weeks isn't very long. In fact I generally let my beer ferment for 3 weeks and then bottle-condition in the hotpress for another 2 weeks (for carbonation). I'd say you could get away with fermenting for 2 weeks if you're certain its done fermenting. Using a hydrometer and knowing the estimated final gravity (FG) will tell you if its done. Also knowing the original gravity (OG) plus the FG can tell you the alcoholic strength. Once its bottled and in a warm place for bottle conditioning you can certainly test them after a week, but you will be rewarded with a better brew with more patience.