Driving on a povisional

Arathorn

Just lookin for peoples opinions on driving on a provisional, im getting my first car soon and and I am on my first provisional. Now I know im only supposed to drive if I have a passanger with a full licence, this is not practical as I assume I will need a lot of practice to pass my test. Is this rule enforced also if I have an accident and im on my own am i screwed with insurance or will they still cover? Also hoping to be able to drive up and down to dublin how long do people think i should be driving before I take on that trip, I live in Limerick...

C_Breeze

evrybody does it. ITs a stupid system and hence the guards dont really enforce it. I got pulled for speeding when i had a provisional and was 17 ( had no full licence driver and no L plates) and not a word was said , same was the case at checkpoints.
as for insurnace , im not sure - as ive never had to find out.
Ive a full now but some of my freinds are still drivin around on provs. and they havent encountered any prolems.
Id say you should be fine!

Litcagral

Arathorn wrote:

Just lookin for peoples opinions on driving on a provisional, im getting my first car soon and and I am on my first provisional. Now I know im only supposed to drive if I have a passanger with a full licence, this is not practical as I assume I will need a lot of practice to pass my test. Is this rule enforced also if I have an accident and im on my own am i screwed with insurance or will they still cover? Also hoping to be able to drive up and down to dublin how long do people think i should be driving before I take on that trip, I live in Limerick...

The rule is not generally enforced and I imagine the vast majority of holders of first and third provisional licences are not accompanied. (The passenger is required to have a full licence in the SAME category i.e. B not just any full licence).

It's difficult to give advice about driving without knowing how competent you are and your knowledge of the rules of the road. If you are going to Dublin you cannot legally use motorways so you will have to find alternative routes via Portlaoise, Kildare Town etc.

Re Insurance - I'm not aware of anyone's insurance being made null and void because they have not been accompanied.

colm_mcm

you should at least get a good few lessons. and have someone with you for a while,

Spitfire666

The only time you'll realy have a problem with the no L-plates or having no full licence driver with you (normal roads) is if your stoped for some other offence and get smart about it with the garda. On thew other hand,on the motor ways you have the Traffic lads to deal with and there notorious even in the job as being utter ***** so you might have a hadder time with them but if your driving is fine you should have no reason to stand out.
What I would say to you is have a set of L-plates with you in case you do get stoped and give some excuse as to why there not up without being cheaky.

Litcagral

Spitfire666 wrote:

The only time you'll realy have a problem with the no L-plates or having no full licence driver with you (normal roads) is if your stoped for some other offence and get smart about it with the garda. On thew other hand,on the motor ways you have the Traffic lads to deal with and there notorious even in the job as being utter ***** so you might have a hadder time with them but if your driving is fine you should have no reason to stand out.
What I would say to you is have a set of L-plates with you in case you do get stoped and give some excuse as to why there not up without being cheaky.

I don't think he/she said they would'nt be displaying 'L' plates. It's a lot easier to have these than having a passenger on board.

Arathorn

Ya I dont think I would drive without L plates if only so other drivers cut you some slack, also I would be avoiding the motorways as much as possible going up and down to dublin. I really do think its a **** system though, they should have some sort o basic skills test that allows you to dive by yourself. Some people are on a second provisional without ever driving a day after only getting their first to use as ID etc, doesnt make sense.

Litcagral

Arathorn wrote:

Some people are on a second provisional without ever driving a day after only getting their first to use as ID etc, doesnt make sense.

Yes but are making things awkward for themselves as they will not be able to get a third unless they do a driving test first.

Spitfire666

well if your not using the motorways then use the plates.and you can always say your going to pick up ur mate who is a full licence driver if your stopped.

Im not driving just yet but will be in the next 2 months and it will be mainly driving between dub tipp and offaly and i wont be using L-plates coz you stand out to the traffic lads and as i said,there *****. Thats why I was saying about having a set with you just not displayed.

Arathorn

Ok fair enuff Spit I will keep it in mind for when I start going up and down

Victor

The insurance will cover the other person, but not you.

Driving long distances when your on your first provisional (alone?) sounds like a recipe for disaster. Book yourself as many lessons as you can and make an appointment for a test.

Just to check - you can drive on your own on a second provisional, yeah?

Creamy Goodness

bluewolf wrote:

Just to check - you can drive on your own on a second provisional, yeah?

yes, but not your first or third as far as i know

*EDIT* fixed type-o

Cremo

Cremo wrote:

yes, but not your second or third as far as i know

Eh I can but I can't? Which is it...?
I asked about a 2nd...

Litcagral

Cremo wrote:

yes, but not your second or third as far as i know

In category B you must be accompanied on 1st,3rd and subsequent provisional licences.

mikemac

Arathorn wrote:

Ya I dont think I would drive without L plates if only so other drivers cut you some slack,

From my experience, a lot of drivers believe they can intimidate drivers with L plates. Be prepared to be beeped at if you hesitate even slightly at a junction.

You should be fine driving unaccompanied, even if its not ideal. Be sure to get plenty of lessons from an instructor as well-meaning family and friends may pass on their bad habits.

I'd be interested to know if your insurance would be invalidated by not being accompanied.

Creamy Goodness

sorry that was a type-o.

as litcagral corrected me, you have to have a full licenced driver (or the same catagory) with you for your first and third provisionals.

Litcagral

micmclo wrote:

I'd be interested to know if your insurance would be invalidated by not being accompanied.

I doubt it as there are lots of middleaged people driving around on their umteenth provisional, yet you never hear about insurance being invalidated.

Excellent.
Now I just have to apply for my 2nd prov, and I'm off...*wonders where that confirmation of exam taken form went...*

mikemac

Just asking cos afaik in Northern Ireland, they have a provisional licence so you can practice for your test. However, driving unaccompanied is taken extremely seriously and I was told you wouldn't be covered in an accident.

System here in the Republic seems very lax since its not enforced. People in Belfast laughed when I said you could apply for a prov driving licence and it would be posted out to you.(This was before the theory test). You could then drive with little fear since the law is not enforced.

Doubt anywhere else in the EU has a system such as this. Maybe a factor in the high number of road deaths.

Not a rant, I drove unaccompanied as did everyone I know in my area until I passed my test.

Good luck to the op.

Litcagral

micmclo wrote:

Just asking cos afaik in Northern Ireland, they have a provisional licence so you can practice for your test. However, driving unaccompanied is taken extremely seriously and I was told you wouldn't be covered in an accident.

System here in the Republic seems very lax since its not enforced. People in Belfast laughed when I said you could apply for a prov driving licence and it would be posted out to you.(This was before the theory test). You could then drive with little fear since the law is not enforced.

Doubt anywhere else in the EU has a system such as this. Maybe a factor in the high number of road deaths.

Not a rant, I drove unaccompanied as did everyone I know in my area until I passed my test.

Good luck to the op.

Yes and display 'R' plates for one year after passing the test and AFAIK are subjected to lower speed limit during that time.

Misticles

i drive every week from monaghan to dublin and back again, im on my 1st provisional. i take the motorways when i have to, to portlaoise and kinnegad cos i dont know any other ways, and a detour leads me onto a motorway for kinnegad. i was pulled over by a garda before in dublin, and he asked where my full licensed driver was... i said they were out and i had to get to college.. if i waited for a full license driver to go places with me id never get anywhere.

Capt'n Midnight

Misticles wrote:

if i waited for a full license driver to go places with me id never get anywhere.

Hassel your local TD, otherwise nothing will be done about the waiting times.

Up north it's 45mph for a year on R plates. AFAIK you aren't allowed use motorways either.
Down here they had an amnesty back in '79 and since then there has been a lot of hot air including the latest noises about it. But until the waiting times come down it's just hot air.

Supercell

Any word on when these new testers are coming online ? , the wait times seem to be as long as ever...and so therefore the less safe our roads are as L drivers have a reasonably valid excuse (imho) not to have a second driver with them all the time.

B00MSTICK

Well according to my insurance (I'm with Hibernian) I'll be fully covered even if I have an accident on my own i.e no fully qualified driver with me.

Big Balls

Spitfire666 wrote:

Im not driving just yet but will be in the next 2 months and it will be mainly driving between dub tipp and offaly and i wont be using L-plates coz you stand out to the traffic lads

People like you are the reason I have to pay €2,000 a year to insure a car with brake discs bigger than the wheels on a lot of cars on the road, 5 years no claims and a full licence since I was 19.

You haven't even sat behind the wheel of a car and you have that attitude.

Believe me, L plates aren't the only thing that will make your lack of skill obvious to other drivers, the way you drive will do it all for you.

How do the government plan to stop 399 people being killed on the roads in 2006 when someone like the above can drive a car around the country???

Supercell

Big Balls wrote:

People like you are the reason I have to pay €2,000 a year to insure a car with brake discs bigger than the wheels on a lot of cars on the road, 5 years no claims and a full licence since I was 19.

You haven't even sat behind the wheel of a car and you have that attitude.

Believe me, L plates aren't the only thing that will make your lack of skill obvious to other drivers, the way you drive will do it all for you.

How do the government plan to stop 399 people being killed on the roads in 2006 when someone like the above can drive a car around the country???

I do drive alone on my first provisional a lot of the time simply because its not practical to have someone in the car with me always.
However posts like yours above set me to thinking, what would I do if there was no or short waiting list and the Garda enforced it?

The answer is simple, the money i'd save as a full licensed driver on my insurance would make it worth my while to get twice the amount of lessons from a qualified driving instructor and be really ready to go out on the road safely and pass my test first time...a win win situation for everyone on the road I'd have thought.

I get my license faster, i'm a better driver - your premiums drop, the roads are not full of people that have had bugger all driving lessons and less sense of how to actually drive properly on the public highway.

The insanely long waiting list for taking the test is a Bad_Thing , for everyone on the road not only the L drivers.

Big Balls

Longfield wrote:

The insanely long waiting list for taking the test is a Bad_Thing , for everyone on the road not only the L drivers.

I'm glad you took what I said in a positive way. I shouldn't be paying that much for insurance and you/any new driver shouldn't be let loose without some experience.

Send a letter from a company, I got my test in 2 weeks doing that.

Alun

I do drive alone on my first provisional a lot of the time simply because its not practical to have someone in the car with me always.

We keep getting this one trotted out every time this discussion comes up. Why? I, like many other people here learned to drive within the rules, so why can't you? If you can't get someone to accompany you you just don't drive, simple. Get a bus, a lift, hop on a bicycle, walk or just stay at home, that's what everyone else in the world does in your situation. The long waiting times for tests are an annoyance, I grant you, but that doesn't give you carte blanche to just ignore the law just because it suits you.

When you're driving on your own, and you do something stupid, which you inevitable will, who pulls you up on that and points out what you've done wrong? Driving is about much, much more than the mere mechanicals of changing gear, steering, braking etc.

Supercell

Alun wrote:

We keep getting this one trotted out every time this discussion comes up. Why? I, like many other people here learned to drive within the rules, so why can't you? If you can't get someone to accompany you you just don't drive, simple. Get a bus, a lift, hop on a bicycle, walk or just stay at home, that's what everyone else in the world does in your situation. The long waiting times for tests are an annoyance, I grant you, but that doesn't give you carte blanche to just ignore the law just because it suits you.

When you're driving on your own, and you do something stupid, which you inevitable will, who pulls you up on that and points out what you've done wrong? Driving is about much, much more than the mere mechanicals of changing gear, steering, braking etc.

Knew a high horseman was about to arrive!!

Why ??, because on public transport it takes me 2 hours each way to get into work..by car its 20 minutes.
If the test wait times were short..then I WOULD get more lessons and definately by now have a full license...and your premiums would be smaller..and less people would die on the roads every year annualy.

Now tell me..whats the simple fix here??...read above..off your horse now.

Misticles

Big Balls wrote:

People like you are the reason I have to pay €2,000 a year to insure a car with brake discs bigger than the wheels on a lot of cars on the road, 5 years no claims and a full licence since I was 19.

You haven't even sat behind the wheel of a car and you have that attitude.

Believe me, L plates aren't the only thing that will make your lack of skill obvious to other drivers, the way you drive will do it all for you.

How do the government plan to stop 399 people being killed on the roads in 2006 when someone like the above can drive a car around the country???

its sounds like your placing the blame on our shoulders for such a high death rate on the roads and your high insurance. its people who drink, take drugs and drive, speeders and irresponsible drivers who cause such a high toll not us specifically!
as for the government, they should be far more strict with the placing of their cameras!

i like many others have applied for my test months ago and still waiting! be realistic theres not always a driver there when you want to go somewhere! the waiting list is terrible.. i applied for my test in monaghan, it was a shorter waiting list than dublin. the west has a very short list. and public transport, they are more often than not packed to the brim, and late.

Alun

Longfield wrote:

Knew a high horseman was about to arrive!!

Why ??, because on public transport it takes me 2 hours each way to get into work..by car its 20 minutes.
If the test wait times were short..then I WOULD get more lessons and definately by now have a full license...and your premiums would be smaller..and less people would die on the roads every year annualy.

Now tell me..whats the simple fix here??...read above..off your horse now.

I'm not on my high horse at all, just someone who uses the same roads as you and would prefer not to be killed in the process.

You chose of your own free will to work two hours away by public transport from you live despite the fact that you can't yet legally drive. That was your decision, and yours alone, not the government's. And what about all the people who can't afford to buy and run a car? What do they do? Right, they get up earlier and take the bus just like I did in your situation until I passed my test. Life's tough, get used to it.

Despite what you and many others here might think, the mere act of buying a car doesn't confer some God given right to drive it on your own on a public highway without first proving that you can do it properly by passing a driving test. The length of the waiting lists is inconvenient, but if you're bothered by it lobby your TD to get it changed, don't whinge about it here.

Big Balls

It's not just L drivers dying on the roads anyway.. it's single car accidents involving 40 year olds in the middle of the night on straight stretches of road too.

The standard of driving in Ireland is appaling. People don't know how to indicate on roundabouts, they sit too close to the car in front, they don't know basic motorway laws - I use the M50 most days of the week and not a day goes by where I have to flash some idiot who just won't move out of the f**kin' way and get into the inside lane where they should be.

I'm not a perfect driver but I do enjoy driving so I do my best to be as good at it as I can be and the stuff you see from day to day is shocking.

Car park yesterday, I'm moving around a parked car and what does the woman in it do? Starts to drive out of the space without looking and nearly takes the side off my new car all because she just couldn't be bothered looking around and then looked at me as if it was MY fault. She wasn't a learner, she was just a sh1t driver.

Alun

Misticles wrote:

i like many others have applied for my test months ago and still waiting! be realistic theres not always a driver there when you want to go somewhere!

This statement really gets to the heart of the matter.

You get a provisional licence to enable you to learn to drive ... full stop. It's not some kind of second-rate licence that just has the inconvenient side effect of making your insurance premiums higher and having to display L-plates.

If there isn't a driver there to accompany you when you want to go out and practice driving, then the option is very simple indeed, stay at home!

Supercell

Alun wrote:

I'm not on my high horse at all, just someone who uses the same roads as you and would prefer not to be killed in the process.

You chose of your own free will to work two hours away by public transport from you live despite the fact that you can't yet legally drive. That was your decision, and yours alone, not the government's.

I cant politely put this..but I disaggree.
If public transport in our capital was up to scratch like most other capital cities then of course it would be the right thing to do.

As to "choose where to live" ...maybe you are bloody rich or lucky to get cheap accomodation close to work..I assure you I am not and I "choose to live" where I can rent affordably on my salary...and this means a two hour trip into work (via public transport - 20 mins in the car)..THAT IS THE GOVERNMENTS DECISION ALONE!!

Sorry for the caps, Mr High Horse type of unthinking posting really gets my goat up.

The problem here is the waiting lists..its that simple.

mikemac

Longfield wrote:

If the test wait times were short..then I WOULD get more lessons and definately by now have a full license

Fair enough but just because your test is months or even a year away, you shouldn't be getting fewer lessons.

I had to do 10 before my parents would insure me on their car and did another 5 coming up to my test.

You should be taking plently of lessons regardless of when your test is simply because you're inexperienced and it's the best way to learn

Longfield wrote:

Any word on when these new testers are coming online ?

I heard that there's some staff being transferred form the Dept of Agriculture so once they're trained waiting times should come down.

Alun

Big Balls wrote:

It's not just L drivers dying on the roads anyway.. it's single car accidents involving 40 year olds in the middle of the night on straight stretches of road too. It's just that the standard is driving is appaling.

I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of the "my car lost control and crashed into a ditch at 4am" type accidents are considerably less than 40 years old, and quite probably were driving on a provisional, but since those statistics aren't kept by the Gardai, we'll probably never know. Anyway, since supposedly 40% of drivers on Irish raods are driving without a full licence, then there's a good chance that anyone involved in an accident falls into that group.

Alun

Longfield wrote:

Sorry for the caps, Mr High Horse type of unthinking posting really gets my goat up.

And these kind of "I've bought a car, so I'm going to damn well use it despite the fact that I'm not qualified to do so and put everyone else on the roads in danger as a result" get my goat too. I hope you get caught.

Big Balls

Well I work in the media Alun so I get to keep a close eye on it through the job I do and I can assure you that weekend after weekend, it's a good age mix of carnage to be honest. Of course you get young people, undoubtably many of them learners dying too.

I'm sure lots of you remember the picture past year of the BMW X5 which LANDED ON TOP of A Daewoo or something similar. The car was in pieces. You have got to ask yourself what in the name of Jesus the X5 driver was doing to put a car on top of another one and to be fair, I don't know too many X5 drivers in their teens or early 20s and with provisional licences.

Supercell

micmclo wrote:

Fair enough but just because your test is months or even a year away, you shouldn't be getting fewer lessons.

I had to do 10 before my parents would insure me on their car and did another 5 coming up to my test.

You should be taking plently of lessons regardless of when you're test is simply because you're inexperienced and it's the best way to learn



I heard that there's some staff being transferred form the Dept of Agriculture so once they're trained waiting times should come down.

micmclo, I did take enough driving lessons to get me on the road, and when I eventually get my test date - heaven knows how far away thats going to be, i'll take a bunch more so i'm as certain as can be i'll pass.

Waiting this long is really really annoying - if the wait time was zero though and license checking etc was enforced don't you think that it would be more worth my while to get extra lessons now, rather than in god knows how many months down the line to complete my driver training and be ready for the test?

Thats great news that extra testers are being trained though.

Supercell

Alun wrote:

And these kind of "I've bought a car, so I'm going to damn well use it despite the fact that I'm not qualified to do so and put everyone else on the roads in danger as a result" get my goat too. I hope you get caught.

Nothing to be caught..i'm taxed, insured and imho a safe driver..though its going to be a while before a tester can confirm this, and the Gardaí will let me past any checkpoint ..why..because the wait lists are so high..you feel unsafe and that your premium is too high???...go complain to your local TD about driving test waiting lists...you have my total support on this!!

Capt'n Midnight

micmclo wrote:

I heard that there's some staff being transferred form the Dept of Agriculture so once they're trained waiting times should come down.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I would doubt it. Numbers on provisionals are something like 4 times the number on the waiting list. So they only way it would reduce waiting times is if people on provisionals did NOT apply for tests. Any move to force people on provisionals to apply for the test would Increase waiting times unless there are going to be four times as many testers. Or if they increase the pass rates - which I think unlikely since a lot of people don't apply for the test because they aren't ready.

Don't you just love it when some people drive around claiming they can drive but haven't applied to do a test because they are worried about passing. :rolleyes:

Big Balls

Longfield wrote:

imho a safe driver..though its going to be a while before a tester can confirm this

Not having a go here Longfield but you can't just assume something like that. People who are inexperienced at things are generally not very good at them.. whether that be flying a plane, singing in a band, having sex or driving a car.. they're all the same.

Just cause you have a pink licence doesn't mean you are flawless either. I'm driving 6 years this year and I still do stupid things that I learn from although they happen a lot less often then when I started.

Supercell

I've applied in three places on recomendations of friends in case i fail the first time (not that i plan on doing so), its a crazy self fufilling situation, ALL the learner drivers I know of have applied to at least two testing centres because of the insane waiting times.,,

More testers needed!

Alun

Longfield wrote:

Nothing to be caught..i'm taxed, insured and imho a safe driver..though its going to be a while before a tester can confirm this, and the Gardaí will let me past any checkpoint ..why..because the wait lists are so high.

This could only happen in Ireland though, and it's pure, utter lunacy. Try the same trick in the UK and you'd be banned from driving for a year, no questions asked and you'd have to walk home after your car was impounded. It's the Gardai's job to enforce the law, not to put their own interpretation on it, or feel sorry for people.

Misticles

nobody is ever an experienced driver, driving is a learning curve, your always learning and therefore cant consider yourself a good/great driver because you really dont know the standard of a great driver because there isnt any!

Supercell

Big Balls wrote:

Not having a go here Longfield but you can't just assume something like that. People who are inexperienced at things are generally not very good at them.. whether that be flying a plane, singing in a band, having sex or driving a car.. they're all the same.

Just cause you have a pink licence doesn't mean you are flawless either. I'm driving 6 years this year and I still do stupid things that I learn from although they happen a lot less often then when I started.

Yep you are right there , I have been riding a motorbike for about 7 years now so I do have a pretty good feeling for whats safe or not on the roads (imho far better than many car drivers on the road..on the bike the first accidant is often the last..so you learn safe driving or die ..simple as that).
But you are right, am certain my driving isn't flawless..but its a damn sight better than many on the road, at least from a safety point of view.

mikemac

Longfield,

When I did my test I applied for two centres (Galway and Nenagh), so if I failed one I wouldn't be waiting another year for another chance.

I also got my manager to write me a letter on company headed paper stating that I needed it for work purposes which was true in my case. Not sure if it helped but I only waited three months for Galway.

Perhaps you could do something similar if you have a sound manager as it would obviously apply for you since you have crazy commuting times

Big Balls wrote:

People like you are the reason I have to pay €2,000 a year to insure a car with brake discs bigger than the wheels on a lot of cars on the road, 5 years no claims and a full licence since I was 19.

I'm not sure of your age but be assured your insurance will drop massivly once you turn 25.

Supercell

Alun wrote:

This could only happen in Ireland though, and it's pure, utter lunacy. Try the same trick in the UK and you'd be banned from driving for a year, no questions asked and you'd have to walk home after your car was impounded. It's the Gardai's job to enforce the law, not to put their own interpretation on it, or feel sorry for people.

What you fail to add (not suprisingly) is that test queues are in the week timeframe not months/year....its just not the same scenario at all - off your horse!!

Alun

I heard that there's some staff being transferred form the Dept of Agriculture so once they're trained waiting times should come down.

It's people in the Dept. of Agriculture who don't want to move to Portlaoise that are being targetted as far as I know. A friend of ours was approached for it, and apparently they get a grand total of 6 weeks training from scratch before they're let loose on the unsuspecting public. It's only for an 18 month (I think) contract too, with an option for the ones that want to to stay on.

[sarcasm mode]
Still, Civil Servant's are supposed to be multi-talented and able to do anything with the appropriate training, so why not a responsible job like a driving examiner?
[/sarcasm mode]

Alun

Longfield wrote:

What you fail to add (not suprisingly) is that test queues are in the week timeframe not months/year....its just not the same scenario at all - off your horse!!

Well, when I took my test in the UK many years ago the wait was 6 months, actually, and did I drive on my own in the meantime? No! Anyway, despite the fact that it's annoying, and possibly inconvenient it's still irrelevant. The relevant legislation is there for a reason, and what you're doing is still strictly illegal, even though the lazy-ass Gardai can't be bothered to do anything about it.