if you wake up and a young one is riding you : is this male rape or indulgence ?

pcwares

I have spoken to 2 mid twenties male non-bull****ters who this has happened to and they have both spoken about it to their respective partners. It pretty blew me off the chair to be fair that it happened to this person.

Is it male rape or is it "oh yes, bring it on, alpha man sexually charged"

If it happened to you (male only answers) would you take it to court?
Would you be able to face the media?

does anyone know if there was ever a case in regards to this?

OsamaBinLaden

i've actually witnessed this. was at a party one night and walked into a room looking for a friend. i saw a girl bouncing up and down on a guy who had passed out drunk. thought it was pretty funny.
i suppose it would depend on the person it happened to and whether they felt violated or not.
i personally wouldn't mind, but i'm sure there are folks out there who would.

pcwares

Both felt violated. Both felt like going to court. Both were confused entirely about how to feel. Like their nature was turned on it head. One was humped by a foul hound and he awoke to the drolling foul mess on him. The other was humped by an ex girlfriend who aparntely is a ride (about a month over i believe) who sneakthiefed into the room and humpity humped him after some session.

Both confided in their new partners.
Both forgot about going to court and just put it down to a moment.

cil_aine

if someone's dick is in your crack, in my books it's rape. if it aint, it's either sexual harrassment or drunken fooling about, depending on the state of mind of the person doing it.

pcwares

on the sex of the persons involved flipside it would be a clearcut rape case - penetration without consent. When its a male there is that clouded certainty. But i think it is.

hullaballoo

Well, there's no such thing as "male rape" as far as the law is concerned. There might be an offence for sexual assault at best. But there is a bit of a legal loophole for any would-be female rapists.

Personally, I don't think I'd ever get that lucky*

*I realise this might be a serious issue for some people, and I mean no offence.

Nevyn

If a person does not consent or is unable to give consent then it is rape or at least sexual assulat.

StephenInsane

Yeah happened to me when i was in college. I came home at about 11pm after a few social drinks, my HOT neighbour was in the house with her friend watching a DVD with my two roommates. I said my hellos, and then retired to bed.

At about 12:30 I awoke, and my neighbour was sucking me off.

pcwares

i dont think a bit of comic peppering is all that bad man..even in the most gratuitous discussion.

right that question one dealth with.

If it happened to you (male only answers) would you take it to court?
Would you be able to face the media?
does anyone know if there was ever a case in regards to this?

sorry dude didnt see ur post there -> thats pretty wild behaviour! Did you mate know about it what this one did?

hullaballoo

Only a man can rape a woman in the criminal justice system according to the definition of rape. We can't be sure if this is just badly drafted legislation, or if it was intended not to create an offence for a woman who has non-consensual sex with a man.

I'd say it's the former, but as it stands, the offence is just sexual assault.

[/EDIT] I can only think of one case like this, but it involved a woman and an underage boy, so obviously it falls into a different category.

pcwares

ill find out and post later this evening.

Ruaidhri

Sorry, you can get it up in your sleep? :eek:

I know i wake with morning wood,but like..it just sounds wrong.

pcwares

definitely you can man.

elexes

i would consider it rape . as for would i bring it to court ... how would i prove it ?

i would probably leave it just because of the expense . but if money was no object id have her infront of a judge without a second thought


think of it another way . if a guy done this to you would you feel any different .

pcwares

i think youve hit on the kernel to the perception problem.

but thats just it its a judicial perception problem also.

sinjin_smythe

why do all these stories involve sexy neighbours and rides ?? somehow i think there are a few porkies in here

Zebra3

If she was a minger I suppose I'd be highly pised off, but would probably leave it.

If it was an ex who I hated though I'd probably report her to the cops, but I'd have no faith in them doing anything other than laughing. :mad:

pwd

Yes it would be rape sex in intimate for men as well as women.
I would cringe at the idea of reporting it. I wonder if anyone has ever been charged for doing such a thing.

pcwares

pwd - thats what im investigating at the moment .

and i would be very sceptical about going directly to the coppers - humilating -can you imagine the dumb country bumpkin garda trying to make sense of this. (sterotype for effect).

fk that - solicitor first id say if i would even go that far if it happened to me.

rubadub

hullaballoo wrote:

Only a man can rape a woman in the criminal justice system according to the definition of rape.

What is this definition? I would be almost certain a man could be raped under law. The rape crisis centre have a large amount of men that contact them, I would presume they are nearly all male-male rape.

hullaballoo wrote:

involved a woman and an underage boy, so obviously it falls into a different category.

No, it is rape and probably clearly described in the legal definition. Some may call it statutory rape which usually refers to consent.

pwd

yes

http://pub.tv2.no/nettavisen/english/article169488.ece

simu

It's completely unacceptable. If someone did it to my bf... grr!

elexes

pwd wrote:

yes

http://pub.tv2.no/nettavisen/english/article169488.ece

thats a totally different country with different laws surly ?

KTRIC

What if you woke up and a guy was raping you !!, would you report it ?

I bet you would.

Why should it be any different if the perpetrator was female ?

pcwares

because there are inherent differences which are also evident in law (yet to be defined correctly on this thread). Male on male is percieved as brutalised, violent forced etc...female male is not. Technically it is but what would a jury say id love to know if there was one hypthetically. But id like to see those two cheeky bitches in the dock for sure. C**ts.

the Guru

an ex GF a few years ago had sex with me when I was passed out after house party , I woke the next morning and people that where downstairs , were wtf was going on up there last night I advised I didn't know , the girl told me I though it was pretty funny but on the other hand we had spoke about it I said she could do it to me if the situation came up ,I had a on occasion falling asleep and gotten wood to my surprise, but if it was some girl I didn't know it would be a slightly different story (it depends on how hot she was :-) )

pcwares

i must confess guru that in the two cases of the boys its elementary thinking to seek conviction or vidication for some moral wrong or trepass to the person etc..

but if i was in a hotel and some fine thing (jennifer lopez played a maid in some film for instance..) and straddled the olde johnson. I wouldnt exactly be holloring for the fuzz.

pwd

well that wouldn't be involuntary so it is beside the point

Calibos

As I think others have said or at least alluded to, I think most fella's would be...."Woohoo, yeah baby yeah' what a way to be woken from my drunken stupor" if it was a girlfriend or even a hot girl they didn't know whereas if it was a mad ex they hated or a minger it would be...."EEWW, get the fcuk of me you bitch"

Personally, even in the case of the later, I can't imagine getting that worked up about it. Sure I'd think the ex/minger was a horrible person and how dare she do that, wtf did she think she was doing, but would I feel totally violated like a woman in the same situation would. I just don't think so. Certainly not enough to go to the cops about it.

Maybe its something to do with knowing it would never go beyond the point where I wanted it to stop. Obviously being a bloke the chances are I could stop it whenever I wanted/realised what was happening are high due to generally being stronger. I guess its the loss of control over the situation that would make me feel the situation was more akin to the rape of a woman. ie, If the girl was bigger and stronger than me and was able to hold me down (unlikely however), if she had tied me down while I was unconcious and of course if I was raped by another man.

Given the OP's original example though I just can't help feeling that I would not consider it rape but 'merely' sexual assualt but even at that, not worth reporting which is kinda how the judicial system seems to see it.

Then again while I think the majority of blokes might feel this way, I am sure some others would consider it as bad as the rape of a woman if the roles in the example were reversed. Just like different situations affect people differently. For instance I know an ex barman from a local pub who is on the surface pretty similar to me, ie. same physicality as me being a bit below average height, not in any way a big tough guy. He seemed similar personality wise too in that he wasn't shy but not overly confident full of bravado etc Anyway he had a gun pointed at him during a robbery in the pub one night and he hasn't worked a day since. It really affected him and he just can't deal with the public since. He's a bag of nerves these days. I on the other hand had a gun pointed in my face during a robbery in the shop and there were no lasting effects on me after the weak legs and butterflys in the tummy from the adrenaline hit dissapated an hour or so later. My attitude was "**** happens, it just happened to me this time, story to tell the kids someday" etc etc It was like water off a ducks back for me.

I don't think any less of the ex barman guy because of the way it affected him and I don't think any less of guys that might be affected more by the 'Rape' but I guess whatever it is about my mental makeup means that neither situation did/would really bother/affect me that much.

Hey, maybe my mental makeup just makes me think that most other guys would feel the same about the 'rape' as I assume most people think like me. Maybe thats not true. Maybe a poll of posters would indicate that most guys here would infact consider this rape and as bad as the drunken stupor rape of a girl??

KTRIC

Ok, let me through something into the mix. Say a girl rapes you in your sleep in an attempt to give you an STD she has. Or if she wants to make herself pregnant? Would you still be like "oh yeah baby , give it to me" ??

hullaballoo

rubadub wrote:

No, it is rape and probably clearly described in the legal definition. Some may call it statutory rape which usually refers to consent.

As it happens, you couldn't be more wrong there. With "Statutory rape", which incidentally is a term coined in the media and is never used in court, consent isn't needed at all. Once you have sex with somebody who is underage, it doesn't matter if they consent or not. You can work that one out from first principles yourself.

As for women raping me, I was feeling a bit lazy earlier on, so I didn't bother looking for the definition, but here goes: linky
Note it says

A man commits rape if--
(a) He has unlawful sexual intercourse with a woman who at the time of the
intercourse does not consent to it

I'm not saying it's right, it's just the way the law is.

The offence that would be carried out would be sexual assault, which carries a sentence of a maximum of 5 years: linky . Whereas, for rape it's 10 years: linky.

Basically, a woman can commit what is morally the same offence, but in the eyes of the law, there is no equivalent to rape for women.

[/EDIT] Just an aside, as this is off-topic, but if a man has sex with a woman who's asleep, even if it's his wife, then that is rape in the eyes of the law. The reason is that consent must be given to have sex, and you can't consent when you're asleep, so that's rape.

Kur4mA

If that happened to me I'd be asking the following questions of said rapist female:

1. Do you have any STD's?
2. What are they?
3. Wtf is wrong with you?
4. Will you please remove yourself from my penis?
5. Do you have a bag that I may place over your head?
6. Do you have change of €20?

*not in that particular order

rubadub

hullaballoo wrote:

As it happens, you couldn't be more wrong there. With "Statutory rape", which incidentally is a term coined in the media and is never used in court, consent isn't needed at all. Once you have sex with somebody who is underage, it doesn't matter if they consent or not. You can work that one out from first principles yourself.

Yes, thats what I was getting at, statutory means legal so of course it not used in court, every convicted rape is statutory rape. I was just saying that when it is specifically described as statutory rape in the newspapers it usually means there was no violence or force involved.

I must say I am shocked reading that legal definition, I didnt think the law would be so sexist.

Dave!

It would depend on how good-looking she was, and/or how drunk I was, methinks...

Dathai

Well, if that happened to me, Id be a happy camper.I wouldnt consider it as rape as nothing went into me.But if she went to court about me doing it to her, then Id be in the height of it.
But, otherwise, I wouldnt mind.

lodgepole

I had it happen to me with somebody I certainly didn't want to be having sex with. I didn't feel the way i've read women feel after being violated but I certainly felt that I was. I told her to get the **** off me and lost all respect I had for her. I wouldn't have taken it further and i'm not sure why. I didn't feel the violation was serious enough I suppose. It's a knacker move.

It is interesting to consider a role reversal. A man having sex with a sleeping woman. He'd probably end up doing three years for it.

lazydaisy

Its rape.

How pathetic as a woman do you have to be to ride a guy who's asleep.

The other interesting thing about that legal definition is that it is defined by intercourse, and doesnt include oral or manual.

bush

How did they get in these situations? Couldnt imagine it ever happening to me, id probably go back asleep thinking it was a dream. Wake up in the morning thinking it was the best dream ever.

Kappar

CRIMINAL LAW (RAPE) ACT, 1981

2—(1) A man commits rape if—

( a ) he has unlawful sexual intercourse with a woman who at the time of the intercourse does not consent to it, and

( b ) at that time he knows that she does not consent to the intercourse or he is reckless as to whether she does or does not consent to it,



CRIMINAL LAW (RAPE) (AMENDMENT) ACT, 1990


4. —(1) In this Act "rape under section 4" means a sexual assault that includes—

( a ) penetration (however slight) of the anus or mouth by the penis, or
( b ) penetration (however slight) of the vagina by any object held or manipulated by another person.

the reason anus must be penetrated by an penis rather than an object is explained by the Minister:

The penetration of the anus by an object will not constitute rape under section 4 because in certain circumstances such an occurrence may not constitute a serious offence. For example, one could have horseplay among school boys where an object, for example, a pencil could penetrate the anus and a person would not be charged with rape in such circumstances. However, if there was a serious indecent assault involving penetration of the anus by an object it would come within the broad definition of aggravated sexual assault under the Bill and an offender could then be charged with aggravated sexual assault.

link at para 1273

pcwares

sesssion and booze.

conked out - one harlet just pounced when all were asleep around him. Mental btch.

The other sneakthiefed into the session and tracked him down and humped him. Another crazy chick.


I think im getting the vibe overall that as men we should be upset and cry from the rafters for mens lib and to stop the rot but we're quietly stroking our ego at the same time?

would that be fair comment or have i skewed off ...

Kappar - Does this have a section on women forcing themselves on men? Or is it just inferred in statute?

pcwares

RefulgentGnomon

Wasn't there a film about this (Michael Douglas may have been in it.)?

LadyJ

This is insane. Honest to God,I can't believe some of the guys wouldn't have a problem with it. I think it's sick that anyone would dare to do that to a sleeping person without their consent.

I mean,it's all fine and well if it's your boyfriend or something but just some randomer? If I was a guy and some slapper did that to me I'd ram my fist up her arse until she bled and bite off her nipples! And that's the truth because if a bloke ever tried to rape me I'd claw him to pieces and I don't think there's a blind bit of difference!

deisemum

Have they spoken to someone from their local rape and sexual assault unit?

I imagine they'd be very helpful and offer great support.
They don't judge and are used to dealing with sexual assault.


I remember reading an article (back in the early 90's) in an english tabloid about a case in Italy where 4 ladies tied up a bloke and took turns with him. He took them to court claiming rape, I can't remember the outcome in court but the tabloids had a field day belittling the case.

pcwares

deisemum - nope no councelling professional orientated. But it plays on their minds a bit ..they normally just kinda glaze over it and leave the confuion settle and not get angry about it..kind of laugh it off but at the same time discuss it seriously like.

I mean it perception turned on his fkin head. Its the value systems all messed up and how we percieve things should be. I mean 'no woman can rape a man,right' - its impossible to our subconscious, our ego to assimilate and process so if thats the individual how in gods name can that individual go public ..ref media bit brought up by a poster there...the individual would be cannon fodder ffs. However i wonder how many lads this has happened to?
I going to have a dig for stats on this as well as a bit more legal info.

But yes previous poster im pretty shocked at the level of accpetance of some of the men on this board.

pcwares

Kappar

pcwares wrote:

sesssion and booze.
Kappar - Does this have a section on women forcing themselves on men? Or is it just inferred in statute?
pcwares

Well, it wouldn't be rape. Could be Sexual Assault

CRIMINAL LAW (RAPE) (AMENDMENT) ACT, 1990

2. —(1) The offence of indecent assault upon any male person and the offence of indecent assault upon any female person shall be known as sexual assault.

indecent assault needs an intention to be indecent and based on what the jury really find is indecent. I wouldn't want any of you on the jury if I was sexually assaulted by a girl!!!

Dave!

LadyJ wrote:

This is insane. Honest to God,I can't believe some of the guys wouldn't have a problem with it. I think it's sick that anyone would dare to do that to a sleeping person without their consent.

I mean,it's all fine and well if it's your boyfriend or something but just some randomer? If I was a guy and some slapper did that to me I'd ram my fist up her arse until she bled and bite off her nipples! And that's the truth because if a bloke ever tried to rape me I'd claw him to pieces and I don't think there's a blind bit of difference!

Note to self: do not rape LadyJ

:eek:

Victor

pcwares wrote:

and i would be very sceptical about going directly to the coppers - humilating -can you imagine the dumb country bumpkin garda trying to make sense of this. (sterotype for effect).

To be fair there is support out there for people who have been assaulted whether sexually or not. People with appropriate training deal with these cases. The Garda hasa specialist Domestic Violence & Sexual Assault Investigation Unit

http://www.drcc.ie/
http://oasis.gov.ie/justice/victims_of_crime/victims_and_the_garda_siochana.html
http://www.garda.ie/angarda/nbci.html
http://www.ictu.ie/html/publications/ictu/domestic_violence.pdf

ctrl-alt-delete

i can see how some guys wouldnt mind it but in my opinion its wrong, but want to know whats worse? see attached image (if it worked )

fly_agaric

Victor wrote:

To be fair there is support out there for people who have been assaulted whether sexually or not. People with appropriate training deal with these cases. The Garda hasa specialist Domestic Violence & Sexual Assault Investigation Unit

http://www.drcc.ie/
http://oasis.gov.ie/justice/victims_of_crime/victims_and_the_garda_siochana.html
http://www.garda.ie/angarda/nbci.html
http://www.ictu.ie/html/publications/ictu/domestic_violence.pdf

A man reporting a "sexual assault" of the sort described (waking up to find a woman trying to have sex of some type with you) to the guards is not something I can ever see happening. I try to picture it but just see this little scene instead:

MAN: I'd like to report a sexual assault. You see, I got somewhat sozzled at a party and had a little doze. Next think I know my cacks are around my ankles and some random woman is fiddling around with my erect todger. (guard smiles). Why are you looking at me like that? This isn't funny. No I did not enjoy it and want to report a sexual assault! Where's my councellor. I'm a victim, a victim I'll have you know. A viiiiictiiim...

GUARD: BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Now get the hell out of here and stop wasting my time!

ferdi

just shows how different blikes and girls are, lol.

the thing is, once the fella has got a hard-on...it seems like he is concenting/

spurious

The guards take sexual assault very seriously, no matter what the sex of the victim or alleged perpetrator.

It is myths like the above that make many men reluctant to report.