tabs being banned

JIZZLORD

i was trawling through the interweb for tabs and i noticed the site i normally used (mxtabs.net) was down, i wisited another site and found this link
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4508158.stm


whats the opinions of those here, and where can you get a good selection of tabs

Lump Basher

They'll never stop the internet. It takes too long to pass these "internet copyright" type laws, and by then people have moved on to somethign new and improved. By the time they nailed Napster, there was Limewire, Soulseek, Bearshare, and dozens of others....now torrents are the new thing, and they rule even more than Napster!
They're tying their own feet together with their own red tape! (Ha - I like that one).

Karl Hungus

This has been discussed already here.

Oh, and if you think tabs being banned is crazy, have a stiff drink in your hand before you read this.

projectmayhem

this is fux0ring ridiculous. in protest, we should just download our music, and becoming incredible guitarist through the downloading of tabulature!

Lump Basher

Karl Hungus wrote:

This has been discussed already here.

Oh, and if you think tabs being banned is crazy, have a stiff drink in your hand before you read this.

Why doesn't he just say that people don't pay copyrighted music when they try out the instruments?

Morrigan

Karl Hungus wrote:

... have a stiff drink in your hand before you read this.

Said stiff drink shot out through my nostrils upon reading! That has to be a joke!

faceman

What next? Sue boards users who use names similar to musican names???

RuggieBear

That's madness:eek:

Somnus

Karl Hungus wrote:

Oh, and if you think tabs being banned is crazy, have a stiff drink in your hand before you read this.

Thats completely ridiculous. Surely it wont happen....

flogen

faceman wrote:

What next? Sue boards users who use names similar to musican names???

Not yet, but I can imagine that any users with song lyrics in their sigs better think fast...

MrJoeSoap

And they wonder why downloading has become so popular...

Music these days has no soul.

Nick_oliveri

Same ****e with the radio. id tel em to fcuk off with themselves. None if their buisiness whether the customer plays the feckin spice girls on the instruments. If anything the music store guy should get paid everytime someone plays a copyrighted song for advertising the song in the first place. Dirty scheming money grabbing bastards the lot of them.

I hope they die a horrible disturbing death.

Shiminay

Wow.

To *both* stories. Unbelievable...

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

oh dear, oh dear....

save us from ourselves osama!

Mr. CooL ICE

Ive heard the first one before in the other forum, but banning people from playing known riffs? Stairway and Nothing Else Matters, fair nuff, but ffs...

cormie

Ridiculous:mad:

Surely a sequence of tabs can't be copyrighted? Why not just copyright every note then? What if you were playing just 2 chords from a song, are you breaching copyright laws of every song in the world that has them two chords in sequence or does it depend on how well you play them and how similar they sound to the original? What a load of bollocology!

Oeneus

I think you've misunderstood the terms of that article a bit. The law isn't about playing copyrighted music on the shops instruments.
It's about them playing musical instruments in a public building, which infringes the laws regarding public performance/entertainment licences, like they have in pubs. He's basically being accused of putting on Live entertainment without a licence.

But yeah, it is a complete load of pants. I reckon this kind of nit-picking could cause a rebellion if it keeps going on.

cormie

Yeah I was kind of referring to both articles in what I said there not just the shop but having to pay to perform is terrible. Freedom of speech through music.

Crucifix

projectmayhem wrote:

this is fux0ring ridiculous. in protest, we should just download our music, and becoming incredible guitarist through the downloading of tabulature!

That's the right idea I think. For every crazy step they take, I'll buy one less album and download it instead*

*Legal Disclaimer: Only joking, that would be illegal and therefore I would never do it :v:

Oeneus

Just bare in mind, if you don't buy the music you love, the music you love will die.
However, this does not apply to the Top 20 charts. They're doing well enough without your support, not that any of it's worth buying anyway.

MrJoeSoap

Oeneus wrote:

Just bare in mind, if you don't buy the music you love, the music you love will die.

This is not true. Although the music I love will eventually die of course, so technically it is true.

Karl Hungus

Oeneus wrote:

Just bare in mind, if you don't buy the music you love, the music you love will die.

While I agree in theory, I really don't think that kind of morality extends to tabs, because lets face it, it's really only very big name bands that do have tab books published. So while I've seen Metallica has such products published, I've never gone into a music store and seen similar books for the likes of Death or Opeth. So many such tabs aren't a copy of an already published tab that is being made free, like most mp3s, but rather a musician's interpretation which is a very different thing altogether, and something that generally doesn't overlap with an already published tab book.

I think the ultimate gratification for a musician is that someone else would want to play your music, and I've seen many band websites where thay have user submitted tabs hosted, one such being the official Emperor website. I can imagine that a lot of bands will eventually host tabs themselves, thus making things perfectly legal, and quite possibly some record labels aswell might host them, in the same way that they host mp3s of the bands they represent.

I think this is a step way too far on the behalf of the music authorities.

mp3guy

this is a ****ing joke

edit:

whoops, only read about the lyrics now.

Oeneus

Karl Hungus wrote:

While I agree in theory, I really don't think that kind of morality extends to tabs, because lets face it, it's really only very big name bands that do have tab books published. So while I've seen Metallica has such products published, I've never gone into a music store and seen similar books for the likes of Death or Opeth. So many such tabs aren't a copy of an already published tab that is being made free, like most mp3s, but rather a musician's interpretation which is a very different thing altogether, and something that generally doesn't overlap with an already published tab book...

Agreed. but I was more refering to the folks that say they will refuse to buy albums and download them instead, not tab books.

Karl Hungus

Oeneus wrote:

Agreed. but I was more refering to the folks that say they will refuse to buy albums and download them instead, not tab books.

Oh in that case, agreed. Those folks are out of line.

mp3guy

Karl Hungus wrote:

Oh in that case, agreed. Those folks are out of line.

Definately, in the words of Jon Schaffer (Iced Earth Guitarist, on the topic of downloads/copying cds)

Jon Schaffer wrote:

...and for the people that feel like that they deserve some kind of handout, all I can say is, fcuk you! I worked for this shít

evad_lhorg

this is crap tbh. i have bought a few tab books and they have not been entirely accruate. while i have used powertabs.net plenty of times and the program plays it out so you can hear how correct it is. i can understand them cracking down on mp3 downloads or trying to at least but helping people learn an instrument? pschhh load o bollox.

Treebeard

Well if worst comes to worst and this tab ban goes through at least it'll encourage people to get off their asses and figure songs out by ear. I know it's something I should have started doing long before I did. I don't know what to say about the other thing though:v:

The Gnome

Karl Hungus wrote:

Oh, and if you think tabs being banned is crazy, have a stiff drink in your hand before you read this.

Ah for the love of....

No more wandering around town trying out different shizzle.

Oh that's nasty [to be said in a Cleaveland from FG voice]

Thomas_S_Hunterson

How about a boycott of tab books

MrJoeSoap

sean_keevey wrote:

How about a boycott of tab books

Waaaaay ahead of you.

senordingdong

Karl Hungus wrote:

This has been discussed already here.

Oh, and if you think tabs being banned is crazy, have a stiff drink in your hand before you read this.

Smell of Lars Ulrich of that.

MrJoeSoap

Niall - Dahlia wrote:

I've no problem with more regulation of tab sites; there's alot of tabs submitted that are just a straight copy of tab books, and they even state that fact sometimes ("dis iz 110% rite coz i got it from the official tab book"). Fair enough, they should be taken down and not allowed. But I don't think it's right that somebody's interpretation of a song should be banned.

What if someones interpretation happens to be correct and therefore matches the tab provided in the tab book?

Doctor J

Niall - Dahlia wrote:

But I don't think it's right that somebody's interpretation of a song should be banned.

I find it frustrating that a couple of company executives can decide on a whim that a whole decades worth of work by guitarists who wanted nothing only to help out fellow guitarists can be just nullified so quickly. Just another case of the power in the hands of the few I guess. I feel sorry for the people who dedicated themselves to submitting hundreds and hundreds of tabs.

At the end of the day, regardless of how accurate the transcriber was, they are publishing a copyrighted work without permission, that is the issue. Just because it is in a printed format, rather than a recorded format, it is still the same piece of music. The song and the recording of the song are entirely different things, the record company owns the recording of the song, the artist/publishing company own the song itself. Every time the song is reproduced the artist/publisher is entitled to a royalty. The artist created the song and is entitled to be re-imbursed for their creative efforts, no? It's not just about guitarists, it's about any sort of transcription, this affects all forms of music on every instrument and proper transcriptions too, not just tabs. It covers unlicenced classical transcriptions, not just fast rock guitar. It's about protecting intellectual copyright and seeing that the people who get continually screwed by the industry and their "fans", the artists, finally get their interests looked after and I, for one, agree with it.

I'm just surprised it took this long for the publishers to get their **** together.

senordingdong

God..you make it sound like some sinister plot.

The people doing this are not doing it for financial gain or to rip off an artists work...infact, we all know that Joe Soap doesn't get paid for tabbing songs so it's not like those who do it are funding terrorism or drug lords.

It's simply a case of musicians wanting to help other musicians.

John

It's not a matter of tabbers being paid when they shouldn't, it's a matter of the artist not being paid when they should. It's like if I translated a book into French tomorrow, it's my interpretation of the book en francais but the author still needs to get paid.

I think a cheap itunes type thing of powertab would be perfect. Get some decent music notation chappies, pay them for their trouble and pay the artist for each download.

John

I wouldn't buy tab books either but this is the perfect oppertunity for powertabs to go legit and set up a proper pay per download site and act as a real threat to the **** tab book companies.

Doctor J

senordingdong wrote:

God..you make it sound like some sinister plot.

The people doing this are not doing it for financial gain or to rip off an artists work...infact, we all know that Joe Soap doesn't get paid for tabbing songs so it's not like those who do it are funding terrorism or drug lords.

It's simply a case of musicians wanting to help other musicians.

They're just musicians helping other musicians by offering free reproductions of other musicians work. Personally, I like to see musicians get paid for their work, which isn't the case here. This may only mean another ivory back scratcher for Phil Collins, but it might mean the difference between having to work full time jobs in between touring for the likes of Nevermore, Opeth and a plethora of other excellent bands who don't actually make a living out of the music industry. Is it wrong to think they're entitled to be rewarded for their work or is it wrong for people to expect all sorts of free hand outs and not pay for someone else's work which they derive a benefit from? This is finally a move where smaller sized artists might actually see a benefit and yet there is much whining and bitching.

Yep, itunes for tabs is what is required and what I'd love to see happen, where the artists can have some contol in the reproduction of their work and, perhaps, play some part in the accuracy of a licenced tab too. That way the likes of Opeth and other bands, who realisitaclly aren't going to have a dedicated tab book any time soon, can rightfully make some income out of an aspect of their work for which there is a demand. I think that is a very good thing and anyone who says otherwise really needs to take a long look at themselves abd how they arrive at their value system IMO.

I ****ing despise this downloading culture where folks seem to think they're entitled to take from musicians for free. It's theft and I think its apalling. If you want to use someone's graft for your own benefit, be it listening enjoyment or becoming a better musician, you should not think the idea of paying those people for their work, which makes your life a better place, is such a bad thing.

projectmayhem

John2 wrote:

It's not a matter of tabbers being paid when they shouldn't, it's a matter of the artist not being paid when they should. It's like if I translated a book into French tomorrow, it's my interpretation of the book en francais but the author still needs to get paid.

good point but these tabs aren't being put online for money or musical broadcast. it's so people like you and me can sit in our bedroom's with our new fender strats and belt out some songs you like for the first time ever.

while it's true to say an artist should make money from their work, it's also fair to say they'd make next to no money from tabs. the labels and publishers of tab books would/do.

i've yet to hear a quote from some artist saying "we're being ripped off by these scumbag fans trying to copy our work". it's all the labels and money men. that's why this is a fewkin joke.

senordingdong

Doctor J wrote:

They're just musicians helping other musicians by offering free reproductions of other musicians work. Personally, I like to see musicians get paid for their work, which isn't the case here. This may only mean another ivory back scratcher for Phil Collins, but it might mean the difference between having to work full time jobs in between touring for the likes of Nevermore, Opeth and a plethora of other excellent bands who don't actually make a living out of the music industry. Is it wrong to think they're entitled to be rewarded for their work or is it wrong for people to expect all sorts of free hand outs and not pay for someone else's work which they derive a benefit from? This is finally a move where smaller sized artists might actually see a benefit and yet there is much whining and bitching.

Yep, itunes for tabs is what is required and what I'd love to see happen, where the artists can have some contol in the reproduction of their work and, perhaps, play some part in the accuracy of a licenced tab too. That way the likes of Opeth and other bands, who realisitaclly aren't going to have a dedicated tab book any time soon, can rightfully make some income out of an aspect of their work for which there is a demand. I think that is a very good thing and anyone who says otherwise really needs to take a long look at themselves abd how they arrive at their value system IMO.

I ****ing despise this downloading culture where folks seem to think they're entitled to take from musicians for free. It's theft and I think its apalling. If you want to use someone's graft for your own benefit, be it listening enjoyment or becoming a better musician, you should not think the idea of paying those people for their work, which makes your life a better place, is such a bad thing.

Ofcourse I think musicians should be paid for their work, I just don't think they should be paid as much as they are.
Your idea of helping out the smaller bands is noble, but I think you're taking a rather slanted view point on it. And the 'bitching and whinning' here is simply because it's becoming a matter of greed.

As for the iTunes type service...I personally wouldn't see it getting off the ground.

Doctor J

senordingdong wrote:

Ofcourse I think musicians should be paid for their work, I just don't think they should be paid as much as they are.

Perhaps you should try to find out just how much regular* musicians actually earn and you might re-evaluate that comment :rolleyes:







* for the sake of arguement, lets say regular is anything less than 50,000 album sales, which would encompass about 99.9% of the musicians out there. This might be an eye-opener.

Karl Hungus

Doctor J wrote:

* for the sake of arguement, lets say regular is anything less than 50,000 album sales, which would encompass about 99.9% of the musicians out there. This might be an eye-opener.

Right... So the record companies are making an inextraordinate amount of money out of it a band's record sales, and the poor band aren't getting enough money, the obvious solution is for this problem is paying for tabs, thus giving the record companies that much more money?

Sorry to say it, but that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I'm all for bands making more money, but the problem certainly isn't with bands not getting payed for their music (Eg, via illegal mp3s/tabs), but rather the problem lies solely with the structure of the music industry, and the sheer amount of middle men taking such a large cut of the profits.

Bottom line, if you're getting on a high horse about mp3s "Stealing" from bands, it's a whisper in a crowd compared to how much the companies are stealing from bands.

senordingdong

That may be an 'eye-opener' on one level.

But that's still alot of money to make for your hobby, something you do for fun.
And this wasn't about mis-placed profits.

You're making it out as though musicians are losing money out of their own pocket and are lashing out about it.
Nobody is profiting out of it (other peoples work), and now the record companies want to envelope the whole thing to make sure they do.

The end result will be all musicians (good and bad) losing out on this great, shared thing in which all musicians try to help each other out for no reason other than a shared love of playing music.
And for what...so the record companies can make more money out of us?
(if people actually paid for tabs)

senordingdong

Karl Hungus wrote:

it's a whisper in a crowd compared to how much the companies are stealing from bands.

And how much they are stealing frome the consumers (fans) by making us pay their extortionate prices.

Doctor J

Gentlemen, let's clear this up right now: record companies have **** all to do with tabs. As I said before, the record company owns the recordings, the musicians own the songs, they are very different things. The musicians alone are being screwed when you get unlicenced tabs, not the record companies. Musicians make money from mechanical royalties (record sales) and publishing royalties (song usage). The issue here is directly related to musicians and songwriters, there is no record company bull**** here, which is why I think it's a step forward, a good thing, it is the artists who stand to benefit from this, not the industry. Publishing is realistically the only way most musicians will ever see a royalty check. Personally, I think if a musician can get even a little more reward for their work then that's a very good thing, and I cannot fathom for the life of me, how people can justify whinging at these guys making too much money when the facts of life are there if anyone could be arsed too look hard enough. Jimmy Page may not notice if he sells a few hundred licenced tabs a month but I'll guarantee the likes of Opeth would, Cynic would, Nevermore would, Sepultura would, in fact most of the musicians in all of your cd collections would. So, why is there such resistance to these talented people getting a little bit of money for the sacrifices they all made to get some life enhancing music into your cd player? I really don't understand that. If a baker makes bread and gets paid then why shouldn't an artist who composes? This has **** all to do with the price of CDs in this country too, so bear in mind it's not the musicians who are ripping you off, they're getting screwed harder than you are. These are people who put up with all kinds of bull**** just out of a passion to play music.

senordingdong wrote:

That may be an 'eye-opener' on one level.

But that's still alot of money to make for your hobby, something you do for fun.

Come back to the real world, please and stop watching MTV Cribs. Do some reading up on royalties because you don't appear to fully understand how the royalty system works. Any band who spend a few months touring aren't exactly holding down a regular job. The figure in Albini's essay is their total earning for their work over a period of about a year (ie - time in the studio, time promoting and time on the road). Any touring they do is usually at the expense of their emplyment and since they're not getting paid by a job and getting **** all from their music, maybe some royalties from tabs, no matter how small, might actually help them. When you've got **** all, a little can seem like a whole lot. Albini also refers to selling 250,000 records, which is very much the exception for the vast majority of all records released. Do you really think four grand (before tax) is getting paid too much for a year's work? Most of the bands who play up to Ambassador level are making a living from music and nothing more. They can afford to eat. No fancy mansion, no Bentley in the drive, no gold plated swimming pool. Just enough to survive until they stop touring and then they get a "proper" job until the cycle begins again.

Here's a statement from Eric A.K. of Flotsam & Jetsam, a quite successful band, released 8 records or so, did a fair bit of touring.

There are many reasons for me to retire from the metal industry. So lets start off with the facts. I've been in FLOTSAM AND JETSAM, for almost 20 years. I've put my heart and soul into 8 albums and I'm really proud of almost every song on those records. My first thought every morning and my last thought every night has been about how lucky I am to be where I am and how cool it is to be able to sing for Flotsam and Jetsam. I have always believed that Flots was good enough to at least make a modest living by selling records and performing live shows but this is not the case. We've done approximately one tour per album. Thats eight, maybe nine, tours since 1985. On each tour I've been paid enough to survive which is fine. No complaints about that. However, these "tours" are so very small and far between. I have spent 9 or 10 months out of each of those 19 years digging ditches, setting tile, hooking up cable, plumbing, bartending, working at Taco Bell, and whatever it takes to stay alive because this industry, that I'm told is so great, has failed me and it has failed my brothers.

We never asked for limos or big houses, or even lots of money. All we wanted was to make a modest living so we could continue making records and performing live. And we have been able to perform all we want and record at least once a year but only at the cost of having no life other than the three months a year on the road. It's pretty hard to keep life in a waiting position. Having 10 months at home with nothing to do except struggling to make enough to feed a family will lead you to one of two places: either you become a talented but worthless drug addict or you accumulate an actual life. I have created over the years a very nice little family life for myself and for my wife and children which has become extremely more important than playing metal and partying on the road. I have always wanted to spend my life on a tour bus. I have never wanted to be responsible for an entire family. But now that I've had both, I can see what is truly important in life. (And ####in' stupid chicks on the back of the bus just doesn't hold a candle to hearing the phrase, "Daddy, will you play with me?")

The Metal Industry, has beaten me. I'm screaming "uncle." But the Music Industry, has not even met me yet and they'd all better look the #### out. Eric AK is on a mission. On to bigger and better things. In my opinion, there is no better metal band than Flotsam and Jetsam. That is why this whole thing is so damn frustrating. Why couldn't it just pay off once or twice? Anyway, I have no worries about the rest of the band; they are without a doubt some of the most talented musicians I have ever met. I'm sure they will do just fine on their own. I would like to thank all the fans who have bought records, even though there aren't very many of you. You are die hard and loyal and appreciated. I'd also like to thank Flots for the school of hard knocks education and the years of more fun than any five men should have.

and Flots bass player Jason Ward

We all do many things, I am a computer tech by trade and have done tech support for the last few years. The rest of the guys work day jobs as well as other musical ventures. I used to worry about people knowing, now its more like "who the **** are you kidding."

Here's Sean Reinert from Cynic, whose Focus album was the most requested re-release in the history of Roadrunner Records (which means they sold every copy that Roadrunner initially pressed, so they must have done alright, yeah?

Thanks to everyone here on this post for understanding our situation. No to rant, but RR was going to put our the re-issue w/ the 3 song demo they payed for and that's it...no remastering...no new artwork. Obviously there was a demand for the music, yet they still say we owe them monies "un-recouped". This is absurd!
Cynic was always an outlet of uncompromised passion and musical expression. Over time the responsibilities, shady business dealings and unrealistic expectations of "the music business" can become a heavy weight on ones creative shoulders. We all tried our hardest to not let those burdens affect our output. Unfortunately in the end it did just that.
So in the end...we owe RR $ yet had to spend our own cash to better the product that they will indeed make a profit off on...if you ask me...somethings wrong here!!!

Do some research and you'll see most musicians who aren't in Coldplay or U2 sing the same song. Do you really think it sounds like those guys earn too much? Really?

Nick_oliveri

Quote http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/industry_news/tab_sites_under_pressure.html

The US Music Publishers' Association (MPA), which represents sheet music companies, will launch its first campaign against websites offering unlicensed song scores and lyrics in 2006. What is more, MPA president Lauren Keiser said he wanted site owners to be jailed.


Quoted by the BBC, he said the Xerox machine used to be "the big usurper of our potential income," but these days, "the internet is taking more of a bite out of sheet music and printed music sales so we're taking a more proactive stance".


Keiser said the MPA would target "very big sites that people would think are legitimate and very, very popular".


Guitar licks and song scores are widely available on the internet but are "completely illegal", he said, which adds: "The campaign comes after lyric-finding software PearLyrics was forced off the internet by a leading music publishing company, Warner Chappell. PearLyrics worked with Apple's iTunes, searching the internet to find lyrics for songs in a user's collection.
"I just don't see why PearLyrics should infringe the copyright of Warner Chappell because all I'm doing is searching publicly-available websites," the story has PearLyrics developer Walter Ritter saying. It would be different if they had an alternative service that also provided lyrics online and also integrated [with iTunes] like PearLyrics did. But they don't offer anything like that at all."
Thanks for the info to p2pnet.net.

Wants site owners to be jailed. Im sorry but this guy must be mentally retarded. Must get his e-mail addy.

projectmayhem

with regard to small bands who sell under 50,000 records... they don't count here, as their music tends not to be the music that's downloaded, or put up on tab music sites. tab sites are generally populated by metallica, slipknot and what not, not the small starving artist types.

also, and this is a point i've yet to see be brought up, i think musicians entering the industry should already be aware of the perils that arise from making music. you make media for the masses, some of them are going to rip you off in one way or another. someone from microsoft (i feel dirty mentioning them, sorry) once said, "we have to accept pirates, but at least they're pirating our stuff"...

and if you're truly an artist, you should be happy people are listening to your stuff. sure, you need to live, and if you're not able to live - get a job or go where the ACTUAL money is - touring.

John

projectmayhem wrote:

with regard to small bands who sell under 50,000 records... they don't count here, as their music tends not to be the music that's downloaded, or put up on tab music sites. tab sites are generally populated by metallica, slipknot and what not, not the small starving artist types.

I think it affects the smaller band far more than the big band. A thousand people downloading the latest Metallica release barely makes a dent on overall sales. A thousand people downloading a Current 93 release could outnumber the people who buy the CD. Downloading is slightly beside the point here anyway. Opeth are a band who don't sell albums by the bucketload but are well represented on tab sites. Do you not think that they should get their money from these sites? I'm sure there are more examples but the tab sites are all gone so I can't check .

Con_316

Oeneus wrote:

I think you've misunderstood the terms of that article a bit. The law isn't about playing copyrighted music on the shops instruments.
It's about them playing musical instruments in a public building, which infringes the laws regarding public performance/entertainment licences, like they have in pubs. He's basically being accused of putting on Live entertainment without a licence.

But yeah, it is a complete load of pants. I reckon this kind of nit-picking could cause a rebellion if it keeps going on.

Is a music shop a public place in as much of a way as a pub? Im not so sure it even is, i mean it's owned by the owner and he could in theory stand at the door and pick and choose who cames in, he wouldnt be serving alcohol or food, no one is really getting much entertainment out of trying a giutar other than the potential buyer and no one is being charged money to listen to what is basically someone Fu*kin around with an instrument to see if they like it.

I hate when companie and bands get all in your face and greedy and commercial about playing their music. The days of eople just playing because they love it and want people to hear them play, and are subsequently delighted by being able to make a living doing that are numbered. Hardly anyone letf like teh now in terms of reasonably well known people.

Stix

We dont need to buy the music we love to keep it alive - we just need to get tabs and play it ourselves !

Besides, the record companies have plenty of vehicles and moneyspinners for bringing in revenue to keep good music alive. Those vehicles are known as the Top 20 Charts !!!



QUOTE: The MPA would target "very big sites that people would think are legitimate and very, very popular", Mr Keiser said.

"The Xerox machine was the big usurper of our potential income," he said. "But now the internet is taking more of a bite out of sheet music and printed music sales so we're taking a more proactive stance."


Is he allowed to victimise and slanderise a particular company like that ? Surely he should generalise and use the generic term !

Doctor J

projectmayhem wrote:

with regard to small bands who sell under 50,000 records... they don't count here, as their music tends not to be the music that's downloaded, or put up on tab music sites. tab sites are generally populated by metallica, slipknot and what not, not the small starving artist types.

Ehhh, maybe that's what you look for, but I've seen plenty of Nevermore, Cynic, Death, Morbid Angel, Opeth, etc etc etc, bands who don't sell lots of records, so I don't accept that point at all, sorry. You're suggesting only mainstream bands get downloaded which is nonsense tbh. In terms of tabs (and again I make the point that tabs are only a small part of what is being discussed here - why must everything be about guitar players?) players of the calibre of Jeff Loomis, Jeff Waters, Marty Friedman, Tony McAlpine, Greg Howe are recognised as excellent players and any guitarist who is actually really trying to learn their instrument knows they will learn more from them than Kirk Hammett. Technical Rock and Metal is not an easily absorbed form of music, even though the musicians involved are most skilful and their techniques sought after, in the same way as jazz and classical musicians and composers get hit by the downloading too. This isn't only about rock and metal guitar tabs, don't forget that.