recommend me a sound card and speakers please

pwd

I use my pc to watch movies and listen to music.
I would like to get a soundcard and speakers to enhance this experience
Any recommendations?

commited

Budget?

pwd

dunno. high enough if i think it's worth it

commited

Your best thing to do if you have a high budget is to buy a dedicated AV amp & surround system (if you watch more movies then listen to music).
If music is your priority, a good stereo amp and pair of speakers will result in excellent music quality and decent enough movie experience.

So if your budget is more than €400, go this route.

pwd

useful advice. nice one.

Alkers

I would have to 100% reccomend you the logitech Z5500!
http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details/US/EN,CRID=2177,CONTENTID=9486
I have the Z680s, they're the exact same apart from appearance and they are amazing. Got them on Amazon for bout €350 two years ago and they are really amazing. Pc, Xbox, anything - just deadly sound and all adjustable so you don't have to annoy the neighbours all the time! Just saw now they have a wireless set too, fairly handy but prob not much of an issue for pc speakers.
I've never heard anything better

pwd

Thanks. I'll get that if I decide to get pc speakers and not hi fi ones. Most sources I've looked at say pc speakers don't compare at all to the hi fi setup commited suggested, but reviews of those specific ones say they actually do. I'm also thinking hi-fi *might* be overkill when the source is mp3s rather than cds. Do you play music on yours much btw? Are you happy with your sound card?

from one of the reviews on amazon : "If you live in a flat and not in basement, you neighbours will have serious complaints" lol

Alkers

I play music on mine almost 24/7. The difference when you fist get them is amazing. I only use the onboard sound on my mobo, it's a creative chip and everything sounds fine. Any of the Audigy series cards should do you fine also. The thing about the neighbours is true though, I have the sub under a desk and with the volume on half I can knock pictures off of my sister's wall two rooms away:D For normal listening I turn the bass down quite low but it's still very audible.

commited

pwd wrote:

Thanks. I'll get that if I decide to get pc speakers and not hi fi ones. Most sources I've looked at say pc speakers don't compare at all to the hi fi setup commited suggested, but reviews of those specific ones say they actually do. I'm also thinking hi-fi *might* be overkill when the source is mp3s rather than cds. Do you play music on yours much btw? Are you happy with your sound card?

from one of the reviews on amazon : "If you live in a flat and not in basement, you neighbours will have serious complaints" lol

Hifi is never overkill. Buying a decent set of separates will result in a system that'll last you for years. I've heard expensive PC speaker sets and they really cant compare to a hifi system.
MP3s, if coded at a high bitrate & played through a decent sound card like the M-audio audiophile 2496 or the EMU0404 will sound lovely through a hifi.
Spending €350 is overkill on PC speakers imho and quite silly.
At the end of the day, it's up to you.

pwd

how high is high? my mp3s are 128kbps typically. Any suggestions on a stereo amp and speakers?
The e-mu 0404 looks fantastic for music. You turn it off for watching movies, is that right?

commited

128kbps is pretty awful to be honest - it'll still be better than a PC speaker set up but deffo think about reencoding at higher bit rate.
You can use it for watching movies too of course, but it would be in stereo. I watch all my movies in stereo and if you have your room set up fine the imaging is pretty good.

Stereo amp & speakers is generally personal preference. How much do you have to spend?

If you have CDs, I'd definately recommend getting a CD player - I plugged back in my CD player the other day after a couple of months out of use, and its amazing how much better CDs sound! Also if you have a dedicated mp3 player, these are generally better than a PC source imho.

pwd

I'll do that. I have musicmatch jukebox which seems to allow 320kbps encoding.
Don't know how much I want to spend, tbh. Value for money is certainly a factor, but I'd rather get an amp I was really happy with and get speakers later (I have old hi fi speakers somewhere in the meantime). I don't need something that can play really really loud, just because I don't think I'll get much oppurtunity to play music really loud without being inconsiderate. I put off getting a cd player until later anyways

Doc_Savage

commited wrote:

128kbps is pretty awful to be honest

bitrate doesn't matter that much anymore!! it's how you rip them!!

The X-Fi will rip @ 128kbps with serious quality!
About the same as 320kbps sounds without the X-Fi!

*just a small point of information*:D

Alkers

How does that work?

commited

pwd wrote:

I'll do that. I have musicmatch jukebox which seems to allow 320kbps encoding.
Don't know how much I want to spend, tbh. Value for money is certainly a factor, but I'd rather get an amp I was really happy with and get speakers later (I have old hi fi speakers somewhere in the meantime). I don't need something that can play really really loud, just because I don't think I'll get much oppurtunity to play music really loud without being inconsiderate. I put off getting a cd player until later anyways

Well there is a little gem of an amp which is ridiculously cheap.
It's a little sensation that's been shocking the hifi world.
The only disadvantage is that it only has one input and it needs resonably efficient speakers.
http://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/t-amp_e.html
http://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/t-amp_morsiani_e.html
http://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/tripath_amps_e.html

I bought a few of these units and they really are stunning! The detail is amazing, and with the right speakers it'll go plenty loud enough!

less than €50 incl delivery: http://cgi.ebay.ie/SONIC-IMPACT-AMPLIFIER-T-AMP-5066-TRIPATH-PORTABLE-NEW_W0QQitemZ5844072406QQcategoryZ3280QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

It's the only amp I'd ever recommend without a listening test - it's also the only bit of hifi ive bought without audition! You'll need to pick up a 12v DC adapter.

There is a huge difference in sound and quality between various speakers.
www.cloneyaudio.com are based in blackrock and offer a fairly decent range of lower priced speakers. When you get your little t-amp, bring it with you to the shop and ask to demo a few speakers with it.. some ideas:

B&W DM303 €289.00 (88db)
B&W DM600 S3 €319.00 (88db)
B&W DM601 S3 €399.00 (88db)
B&W DM602 S3 €479.00 (90dB)
System Audio SA 505 €299.00 (88db)

They often also have some used stuff available too.

If you can get up north for some demo'ing, check out:
http://www.richersounds.ie/asp/product.asp?ObjectID=938&Mode=0&CategoryID=5&SUB=29&ProductID=71
http://www.richersounds.ie/asp/product.asp?ObjectID=938&Mode=0&CategoryID=5&SUB=29&ProductID=382
http://www.richersounds.ie/asp/product.asp?ObjectID=938&Mode=0&CategoryID=5&SUB=32&ProductID=88
http://www.richersounds.ie/asp/product.asp?ObjectID=938&Mode=0&CategoryID=5&SUB=32&ProductID=85
http://www.richersounds.ie/asp/product.asp?ObjectID=938&Mode=0&CategoryID=5&SUB=32&ProductID=86

Only go for floorstanders iif your room is over 4m x 4m. Dont buy based on looks - the sound is far more important! If you go for standmount speakers, make sure you pick up some speaker stands for them. I have the B&W 602's and I'm more than happy with them.
The dB rating is the "efficiency" of the speakers - the higher the number, the louder the speaker is for the same input. 88 is really the minimum for the t-amp.

Hope all that helps, and any more questions just ask!

commited

Doc_Savage wrote:

bitrate doesn't matter that much anymore!! it's how you rip them!!

The X-Fi will rip @ 128kbps with serious quality!
About the same as 320kbps sounds without the X-Fi!

*just a small point of information*:D

How does it make a difference when its 101010101010110101 from the CD rom drive being converted by whatever software you use. I'd say your ripping PROGRAM makes more of a difference.

masteroftherealm

You aint used an X-FI yet have you!! Its insane! Resamples everything amazing!!!

commited

Explain more please

DemonOfTheFall

Lol, the X-Fi and creative's MP3 hyper quality propaganda are hilarious. The way that it rips "amazing"ly, is by:

1. Resample to 48 khz (Smacks head at sheer stupidity)
2. Use dynamic compressor filter to ruin the sound.
3. Up the lows and the highs to ruin the sound.
4. Make up retarded name like "Crystalliser" and make people think that it can improve perfect CD Quality music.
5. ????
6. Profit!!!

My god I hate creative so much since their whole Crystalliser MP3 thing.

If you want good quality MP3s, you use EAC with lame on the -V0 setting. End of.

masteroftherealm

Overall review
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1850360,00.asp

specific on the audio quality
http://www.gadgetcentre.com/news/article/mps/UAN/97/v/1/sp/

DemonOfTheFall

Yeah reviews are nice and all, but they're both breathless, omgz we luv j00 creative plz have our babies pieces of junk.

It's physically impossible for creative's magic "crystalliser" to make a 128 kbps MP3 sound better than a 320kbps lame rip.

I'm not saying that it's a bad card, I'd love one. It'd own my Audigy Value all over the place. Just saying that the whole crystalliser thing is a crock of ****. LAME = ultimate quality.

masteroftherealm

Not in my experience!! I think the extreme music is the best thing ever to hit PC Audio!! Have you got one!

DemonOfTheFall

No, I haven't. I just know for a fact that creative are really bending the truth with their advertising for the crystalliser. They claim to be able to make a CD sound better than the original recording. LOL.

Applying lots of filters without asking /= Improving sound quality.

If I wanted to blast loads of filters onto my MP3s I'd just turn on some of foobar's options to do so.

masteroftherealm

Well Id reccomed ya try one before criticising one man! Seriously.

commited

Is EAC better than CDex?

pwd

That's a huge help commited, thank you very much. You really know your stuff!
I'll get the e-mu soundcard and the t-amp. My old speakers were quite good, and compare pretty well to the ones you linked to I think, so I might just use them. (3-way 8 ohm phillips floorstanding ones). Have a room here that is big enough for them, although I will be moving soon. (got them + a display model midi system for 150 punts over 10 years ago).

commited

Phillips speakers are awful in my experience, just like sony speakers.
How do you know they "compare well"? With things like hifi, you cant just look at specs or even the "look" of them and decide that they are decent.
If you want to do it properly, buy new speakers - if you want to do it on the cheap, and fundamentally waste the potential of the emu and t-amp then use the phillips speakers

DemonOfTheFall

pwd, to be honest if you're only listening to 128 kbps MP3s, they'd sound better on cheap headphones.

If the bitrate is that low (eg. downloaded music, often ripped by muppets with crap programs), I think that it sounds better on crap equipment.

I used to have a fair few 128kbps tracks on my mp3 player with the super crap creative headphones that come with it. They sounded awful, but when I moved up to a nice pair of sennheisers I couldn't stand to listen to those tracks anymore. The high quality headphones just showed up the imperfections so muc more clearly than the cheapos did. Replaced the crap 128k tracks with decent rips and all was well again

TempestSabre

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/multimedia/creative-x-fi.html
http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/multimedia/creative-x-fi-part2.html

Crystalliser is a fancy EQ in effect. Nothing more. It not making the CD more accurate its simply "colouring" the sound, so that some the of time, maybe even most of the time, it will sound better to the average ear. Average being those people who don't take their SQ too seriously. Non audiophiles etc. (Its like having artifically flavoured food over organic stuff). Purists will hate it because its less accurate and further away from what the original CD sounded like. However if you're not bothered by that you'll probably like it. Doesn't work with all tracks though.

Its a bit like the huge amounts of bass people listen to these days, with little or no mid range. Huge subwoofers and tweeters. Your missing half the music. But if you are used to listening to dire 128k mp3's and the usual dire earphones that come with CD's and iPods you'll probably think its fantastic.

Don't even bother arguing about 128kbps vs 320kps. If they can't hear how bad that sounds, they'll never hear it.

DemonOfTheFall

Woo! Someone who agrees with me and realises that a compressor and an EQ don't mean a quality improvement.

masteroftherealm

I dont really care bout tech specifics though dude Im talking real world results man!

TempestSabre

masteroftherealm wrote:

I dont really care bout tech specifics though dude Im talking real world results man!

You might like a Big Mac but that doesn't mean its a good thing or real food.

If you're happy with it great.

pwd

ya I'll replace them with 320 kbps ones. I already have software that can do that.
I'll check out speakers in that place in blackrock also. The ones I have are on permanent loan to someone at the mo anyways and they'll be disappointed if I take them back

masteroftherealm

Heh heh Im more than impressed!
Seriously I know the tech of ot doesnt add up but I wouldnt go so far as to put it down until you have heard it IRL

TempestSabre

masteroftherealm wrote:

Heh heh Im more than impressed!
Seriously I know the tech of ot doesnt add up but I wouldnt go so far as to put it down until you have heard it IRL

Two words for you. Soylent Green

Don't accept what your given, until you check it out for yourself. You might find what you think is great is very artificial. Bit like a big Mac. Once you realise how bad it is, despite the taste, and acquire the taste for natural food, you won't go back. (unless you are drunk and got the munchies). I'm not knocking what you like MOR. To be honest if you aren't listening through good headphones, speakers and have a good source material then you might aswell stick to what you like. I know my own music gear isn't great but I enjoy my music regardless. A while back I was listening to my music on a CD portable, and my MP3's and other people iPods wondering why I didn't really like the music that much any more. Started doing some research and realised I was listening to poor SQ. Made some changed to improve the SQ and I enjoy it a lot more now. One thing I've adjust to is reducing the amount of bass and EQ I use.

Anyway if you are really into you music start reading some HiFi sites like Head-Fi. You'll dig out what cheap gear sounds decent without spending a fortune. With a sound card you should be looking for a decent DAC. The X-Fi! is a good card, but for the reasons your giving. I'll leave it at that.

masteroftherealm

Heh O had a feeling ya though that! Im an audiophile, listen thru either Sen HD280's or through Logitech Z5500 speakers. And moving from the audigy2zs to these I saw a huge inmprovement, If I didnr I culd have just brought it back:v:

commited

You think listening through Z5500 is "audiophile" (hate that word)?
They're surround PC speakers made for games & movies not music..
They wont touch even an entry level amp & speaker pair..
Basically - if you want quality, dont really go near MP3s

masteroftherealm

commited wrote:

You think listening through Z5500 is "audiophile" (hate that word)?
They're surround PC speakers made for games & movies not music..
They wont touch even an entry level amp & speaker pair..
Basically - if you want quality, dont really go near MP3s

THX Certiied compares to a seperates system that cost 1750thats downstairs (Not Mine)

EDIT: And i despise that word too!!

commited

Sorry, but AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

If you hear no difference, then yer lucky - but I've heard some very expensive logitechs (the 5500s predecessors apparently) and I wasnt really impressed.
My system would knock socks off it, with Mp3s or CDs.
THX has nothing to do with music, thus means nothing.

masteroftherealm

commited wrote:

Sorry, but AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

If you hear no difference, then yer lucky - but I've heard some very expensive logitechs (the 5500s predecessors apparently) and I wasnt really impressed.
My system would knock socks off it, with Mp3s or CDs.
THX has nothing to do with music, thus means nothing.

But what is your system... and how much!

masteroftherealm

and as an aside I think that the fact this was posted in this forum shows that he was looking for a PC system not nessesarily a mondo expensive system

commited

Well if we're talking MP3s - €15 Creative PCI 128 sound card without any of that surround crap!, €50 t-amp, €250 speakers (I got em second hand & discounted).. so €315...

My system
Arcam Alpha 7SE CD player
Arcam Alpha 8R amp (currently pushed into service in my fathers system as his meridians are getting serviced)
Sonic Impact t-amp (currently being used)
B&W 602 speakers
and then i've got a sony MD deck & a NAD tuner. Bought most of it when I was 16 (except the t-amp which was only released this year) and it has kept me more than happy since then!

Edit: reply to second post - He was looking for a system to be used with his PC - doesnt mean that a PC system is his best option

TempestSabre

masteroftherealm wrote:

But what is your system... and how much!

Money doesn't always equal quality. What the best sounding iPod. The cheapest one. The Shuffle. :eek:

commited

TempestSabre wrote:

Money doesn't always equal quality. What the best sounding iPod. The cheapest one. The Shuffle. :eek:

Of course - my €50 t-amp is giving many amps 100times that price a run for their money from what I've read. compares favourably to the meridian set up we have downstairs and that would cost a fair bit more than 100 times it :eek:

gline

this all really depends on wether the OP wants to mostly use this setup for his pc or for music. If he is listening to 128 mp3's + movies etc id say go with a cheap pc setup tbh.

pwd

I wasn't specifically looking for a pc system, just for advice on the best option.

I've already ordered the t-amp and the e-mu 0404. Although the emu is out-of-stock in dolphin music, which is a pain because they didn't indicate that when I placed the order.

po0k

TempestSabre wrote:

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/multimedia/creative-x-fi.html
http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/multimedia/creative-x-fi-part2.html

Crystalliser is a fancy EQ in effect. Nothing more. It not making the CD more accurate its simply "colouring" the sound, so that some the of time, maybe even most of the time, it will sound better to the average ear. Average being those people who don't take their SQ too seriously. Non audiophiles etc. (Its like having artifically flavoured food over organic stuff). Purists will hate it because its less accurate and further away from what the original CD sounded like. However if you're not bothered by that you'll probably like it. Doesn't work with all tracks though.

Its a bit like the huge amounts of bass people listen to these days, with little or no mid range. Huge subwoofers and tweeters. Your missing half the music. But if you are used to listening to dire 128k mp3's and the usual dire earphones that come with CD's and iPods you'll probably think its fantastic.

Don't even bother arguing about 128kbps vs 320kps. If they can't hear how bad that sounds, they'll never hear it.

Good post.

Cuddlesworth

masteroftherealm wrote:

Heh O had a feeling ya though that! Im an audiophile, listen thru either Sen HD280's or through Logitech Z5500 speakers. And moving from the audigy2zs to these I saw a huge inmprovement, If I didnr I culd have just brought it back:v:

How do you find the z5500s cause im looking to pick up a set for christmas, any problems or quirks?

TempestSabre

Just a thought.

HiFi Speakers aren't usually shielded for PC use. So don't leave you USB drive or iPod on or infront of them. PC speakers usually are.

pwd

the speakers are spread widely across the room.
even with onboard soundcard and old speakers that amp makes a huge difference. Also the difference between low bitrate mp3s and cds is quite apparent using it too.
Going to be waiting for my soundcard I think. I dislike it when sites do not indictae they are out of stock of an item until after you place an order.

commited

You got the t-amp then?
I was quite impressed too - bit of a bargain It's replaced my €500 amp lol