Quality of life in Ireland today;

junkyard

I have discussed the subject of quality of life in Ireland today with a few other people over the last few days and they all agree that standards are falling fast, people seem to be arrogant and the quality of life is running out fast.Its all rush and few people have a good word to say about anyone or anything. All of this seems to have come into place in the last couple of years. What do other people think?

Atrocity

Well, it's inevitable that as people get richer they get ruder. But how do you mean quality of life? I thought the quality of life was getting better..?

I think people are being too negative. We're 8th on the UN HDI ( http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0778562.html ) so i think it would be fair to the quality of life is quite high here. Obviously the improvement in quality of life has not matched income growth, but Ireland is certainly an easier country to live in now than it was 10 years. You would expect that as a country increases it's income, that income will have a decreasing abilty to increase quality of life. I think that decreasing return is what people are complaining about currently.

junkyard

There is no doubt people are getting richer but at a cost, decency is gone out the window and good manners are laughed at. People seem to get pleasure out of cruelty and seeing people suffer. What I mean by quality of life is people seem to only be interested in financial standing rather than having a conscience.

Royale with Cheese

I've just got back from 3 months in Germany and I can't get over the prices here. It hurts my wallet so bad. Before I would go out and pay the charged price, but now I just stand their in disbelief. It's beyond a joke, it's f*cking criminal. Especially drink. How I ever spent €50 on a night out before is beyond me.

Any change generally has both postives and negatives. Whining won't really do anything to affect that

xXxnaoisexXx

it is different areas of ireland but i have to say people are getting more stuck up alright!

junkyard

I'm not whining I just feel a bit sad that the pace of life is moving so fast now that some people can't cope with it and are going to be left on the scrapheap as a result. Very few can take time out to " watch the world go by " and I'm not so sure this is a good thing. Life gets very weary after a while with this fast pace. Don't get me wrong I work anything up to 10 hours a day and I'm not a lazy person but I do find that I have to work an awful lot harder just to make ends meet and there is no time to slack off or the whole thing will collapse.

Yeah people seem to living to work rather than working to live these days. As people want more and more from their lives, their lives demand more from them.

Personally, i don't think people know where they want to go in life, so they just follow the same current as everyone. I suppose you could blame the education system for failing to nurture an ability to think more deeply about things. But that doesn't help the competitiveness of the economy.

MrJoeSoap

I was in the shop I work in tonight (as a customer though) and three guys around 17-19 years of age walked in and randomly started knocking the things off the shelves and onto the floor. One of them smashed a glass Miller bottle on the floor.

I'd be a liar if I said it was the first time it had happened.

Truth is, there is no accurate way of judging the "quality of life", therefore the UN HDI mentioned above means nothing to me. It is all subjective... and subjectively I wanna get the hell outta here!

junkyard

Your spot-on there MrJoeSoap, I think we're being given a lot of so called facts and figures about this and that and expected to swallow it hook line and sinker and I don't honestly think we're being told the truth. Some people have no respect for anything or anybody. All we see are scumbags on the paper going to jail as if they're going inside for awhile to visit their buddies. I have to say that I also have been looking at the idea of emigrating from Ireland because I don't like where its heading and from the looks of it I'm not the only one.

jetsonx

I really think Irish people are now paying for our super low corporate tax rates.

Where are all our sports centres ? first world hospitals ? why do we spend so long in our cars ? whey are irish kids calling proprietors of creches "mummy" ?

I guess its the price we have to pay. Nobody wants to go back to the economic quagmire the country was in the 1980's.

The important thing is that the government learn from the mistakes of other countries who has extended periods of economic prosperity and some of the social problems it can create.

Facts & Figures are far from perfect, but if the government wants to improve something, they're going to need some way to gauge change.

Most developed countries are heading in the same direction. Scumbags are quite prevalent on a worldwide basis. The grass isn't all that much greener anywhere plus most countries don't have the fiscal ability to deal with quality of life issues like Ireland can.

What do you guys see as the causes behind the problem?

junkyard

One of the main problems stems from discipline in schools. My mother, who was a national school teacher, always says that the day corporal punishment went out of schools was a sorry day. Soon after 4 and 5 year olds knew their rights and would stand their ground with their teacher. I think respect for other people is the biggest problem or rather lack of it. When I was a kid and if I got in trouble in school and went home and told my parents I'd be in bigger trouble at home. Nowadays if a kid comes home from school having been in trouble with a teacher, the parents want the teachers head on a plate for victimizing their kid. Parents should back their kids teacher from the start and i think it would certainly help things. I'm not saying all teachers are saints but the majority are trying to do a good job. Politicians also need to lead by example and I think they leave a lot to be desired. In my opinion they look more and more like an organized crime family by the day. How the hell do they expect people to respect them with all their carryon. And finally I think we are still being ripped off at every turn.

Paddy20

People are more interested in the neighbours in 'Coronation Street' or 'Eastenders' than their own neighbours problems. We have become influenced by technology and all the media.

To the extent that most people have fallen for the capitalist dream, that owning products can bring 'true happiness', when the truth is we are only human beings, passing through this valley of tears, and basic concern for your friends and family are more important and rewarding in the end. Than anything else in this life.

P.:cool:

Atrocity

Paddy if you knew some of my neighbours you'd keep well away from them too

morlan

Quality of life in Ireland is at an all time high.

The cost of living is ridiculous though. Something has to give, eventually.

Hobbes

Actually according to recent reports we have peaked. It is expected to decline rapidly in the next five years.

PullMyFinger!

Interesting thread.

I think most 24 - 30's these day think they need to have a "foot on the property ladder", a couple of credit cards and a nice car that shows off their social status suitably.

Its all bollix really. Ideally Id like to go live as a hippie in Thailand

Atrocity

That's all very well, but nobody wants to return to the way things were in the eighties; qualified solicitors flipping burgers and everyone scrambling over one another to find poorly paid factory jobs.

Hobbes

Hobbes wrote:

Actually according to recent reports we have peaked. It is expected to decline rapidly in the next five years.

What reports?

simu

I'm sick of this Ireland-is-going-to-the-dogs-and-losing-its-soul stuff that's been clogging newspapers of late. It'sthe new annoying national cliché. Life is pretty good here for most from what I see.

junkyard

The standard of living appears to be great but at a very heavy cost, people are under enormous pressure to be seen to be doing well. All is not as it seems.The amount of money borrowed is staggering and how people on an average wage can cope is beyond me. I honestly believe the Irish economy is a false one built on borrowed money. Just wait until the interest rates rise and we'll see what happens. I'm not doom mongering here I'm just being realistic.

jetsonx

PullMyFinger! wrote:

Its all bollix really. Ideally Id like to go live as a hippie in Thailand

In Thailand, most of the "hippies" if you could call them are in fact rich Western kids just waiting for Daddie's trust fund to mature.

coolhandluke

I always keep hearing how the "economy" needs 50,000 new workers every year for the next 10 years,but i often wonder does the "country" need 50,000 workers every year for the next 10 years.The majority of these workers are getting paid so little,they aren't paying any tax.Their clogging up the hospitals,roads and housing.Investors are competing against hard pressed first time buyers for properties to house these workers,pushing home ownership far beyond the dreams of the ordinary irish shop/factory/industrial worker.
The only people who seem to be doing well out of this little arrangement are the employers.:(

junkyard

I'm not so sure the employers are doing that well either when you add up all the extra stealth taxes and so on, most of the employers, myself included, are just frantically trying to make money to stay in business and its definitely harder to make money as you have to be competitive, employees want more money and in some cases more time off and the the extra taxes on top of that. It just doesn't add up in my opinion. But I do think you have a point as regards extra workers, I don't think that is the answer either.

jetsonx

coolhandluke wrote:

I always keep hearing how the "economy" needs 50,000 new workers every year for the next 10 years,but i often wonder does the "country" need 50,000 workers every year for the next 10 years.The majority of these workers are getting paid so little,they aren't paying any tax.:(

I would hate to see the cost of living in Ireland without these workers. If an Irish person where to take some of the jobs they take they would be demanding double the wages. Double wages = more overhead for employer = more overhead for employer = more expensive goods and services for the average citizen.

netwhizkid

TBH, Life in Ireland today is pure crap, I absolutly hate it and wish i could just get the hell out of here. Rain, cold, everything is just fooked up. Add rip-off ten quintillion euro for everything. I hate it, Santa please give citizenship of a nice warm country with lots of money and nice people with stuff that is cheap to buy.

netwhizkid

netwhizkid wrote:

TBH, Life in Ireland today is pure crap, I absolutly hate it and wish i could just get the hell out of here. Rain, cold, everything is just fooked up. Add rip-off ten quintillion euro for everything. I hate it, Santa please give citizenship of a nice warm country with lots of money and nice people with stuff that is cheap to buy.

Move to Africa, it is warmer, has nice people and things are cheaper there and thus has a higher quality of life

coolhandluke

coolhandluke wrote:

I always keep hearing how the "economy" needs 50,000 new workers every year for the next 10 years,but i often wonder does the "country" need 50,000 workers every year for the next 10 years.The majority of these workers are getting paid so little,they aren't paying any tax.Their clogging up the hospitals,roads and housing.Investors are competing against hard pressed first time buyers for properties to house these workers,pushing home ownership far beyond the dreams of the ordinary irish shop/factory/industrial worker.
The only people who seem to be doing well out of this little arrangement are the employers.:(

Ireland's average age is increasing. Under the current tax regime, those extra workers will be needed to keep the pensions and health care systems afloat amid higher demands in future years.

projectmayhem

Deleted User wrote:

Ireland's average age is increasing. Under the current tax regime, those extra workers will be needed to keep the pensions and health care systems afloat amid higher demands in future years.

coolhandluke's point was that they're on very low wages, and in some cases not even paying tax in the first place. good luck keeping the economy floating on that.

on the other hand, i'm a happy bunny. i'm sure once i have a degree i'll have to face some cold hard facts, but i've never had a plan to stay in ireland anyway

jerryp

I need someone to define quality of life for me first.If it is measured in material terms,(income,holidays,house,etc),then I think it would be true to say that we are better off than ever.If,however,it is measured in terms of how we are developing as a society,then I think that we are going backwards rapidly.How many people living in new housing estates can name,say, the ten families living on either side of them?How many parents are now forced to hand their children over to childminders at some unmerciful hour each morning,only to pick them up again in the evening when they are almost ready for bed?I could go on and on but it would only affect my own qof.

the_menace

The quality of life in Ireland has never been better for most. Anyone who thinks that the average quality of life in this country is relatively poor is, quite frankly, a f**king idiot.

Jeez, Irish people sure do like to whine.

SprostonGreen

Theres no starvation, soup kitchens or anything like that, but the place is properly f*cked.

Its everyone for themselves/I'm alright Jack. You've got people complaining about prices(and rightly so) but then they'll go and buy sell out concert tickets and sell them on to their fellow man at a higher price.

It seems to me that if someone dropped dead in the street, most people would pass by and not care. Loads of twats are too interested in the lives of f*cking celebrities, watching meaningless soaps and filling their lives with designer shyte.

Amazotheamazing

Ireland is a great place to live, anyone who thinks otherwise should see more of the world.

the_menace

SprostonGreen wrote:

It seems to me that if someone dropped dead in the street, most people would pass by and not care. Loads of twats are too interested in the lives of f*cking celebrities, watching meaningless soaps and filling their lives with designer shyte.

This "everyone's an asshole these days except for me" attitude is getting really boring now to be honest. As is the self-perpetuating "I hate celebrities and soaps" catcall of the wannabe intellectual. Sorry to cause offence, but my main gripe with modern day Ireland are people like yourself who seem to think they're better, nicer, have superior taste and are more cultured than everyone else. It's this arrogance that breeds the nastiness that you profess to hate so much.

junkyard

I think the bottom line here is money to be honest or rather what you have left. If you sat down and made an honest list of what you own and what you have left I'd say you'd get a shock. Its a false economy and people are pressured into keeping up with their friends and neighbors, if your not one of them your an odd ball, I see it all the time. Theres no doubt the rich are getting richer all the while they have us worker ants chipping away working our butts off paying through the nose for our borrowed money. We are living in a fantasy land thinking we're onto a good thing but its a bluff.:mad:

SprostonGreen

the_menace wrote:

This "everyone's an asshole these days except for me" attitude is getting really boring now to be honest. As is the self-perpetuating "I hate celebrities and soaps" catcall of the wannabe intellectual. Sorry to cause offence, but my main gripe with modern day Ireland are people like yourself who seem to think they're better, nicer, have superior taste and are more cultured than everyone else. It's this arrogance that breeds the nastiness that you profess to hate so much.

Yeah, that'll be me alright, thinking I'm better and nicer than everyone else. Sorry if my opinions are not this seasons colours, but thats the thing with principles, they shouldnt come and go with popular opinion.

thelordofcheese

Well i think we can all agree that the 80's were a terrible time and we don't want to be back there, but the country as a whole has swung from one extreme to another. We used to be dirt poor, but at least there didn't seem to be such a self-centred attitude amongst people. Maybe i'm romanticising the past, but thats how it seemed to me.

Now that we can spend money like it's going out of fashion people do seem to be less friendly or polite to eachother.

It should be possible to strike a balance between prosperity and general human decency, and maybe we'll start on that path soon.

Paddy20

thelordofcheese wrote:

It should be possible to strike a balance between prosperity and general human decency, and maybe we'll start on that path soon.

Well said, but I hope you are not holding your breath , and I think SprostonGreen is spot on as well !.

P.:cool:

Amazotheamazing

Ah good old Ireland, where communties ignored clerical abuse and shunned unmarried mothers, great days. Where an Taoiseach could buy an estate in Dublin and an island off Kerry while the nation slid close to bankrupcy, when freedom fighters could bomb memorial services, yeah people were decent back then.

TempestSabre

I take it those of you who say the quality of life is good here, haven't had to spend 14hrs on a hospital trolly or chair (because theres no trollies) waiting for a bed. Or spend 3-4 hrs a day commuting from where you can afford to life, to where you can get work. Or that you in debt to your eye balls because you can't afford childcare, accomodation or just the monthly expenses with no luxuries. Theres lots of people struggling, don't dismiss it because it doesn't effect YOU.

Amazotheamazing

People struggle to pay bills in every country, how is that unique to Ireland?

TempestSabre

Amazotheamazing wrote:

People struggle to pay bills in every country, how is that unique to Ireland?

Why does it have to be unique?

vector

netwhizkid wrote:

...please give citizenship of a nice warm country with lots of money and nice people with stuff that is cheap to buy.

Australia? I don't know much about a quick google reveals that petrol is cheaper

Amazotheamazing

Well on a thread discussing quality of life in Ireland, a lot of people seem to be concerned about the cost of living, every country has people who struggle to pay the bills, do you think there's an inordinate amount of people struggling in Ireland?

TempestSabre

Amazotheamazing wrote:

Well on a thread discussing quality of life in Ireland, a lot of people seem to be concerned about the cost of living, every country has people who struggle to pay the bills, do you think there's an inordinate amount of people struggling in Ireland?

If you mean struggling to get a decent health service. Yes. If you mean there personal budget in terms of income and out goings. Yes. Which is personal debt is increasing. People aren't struggling with the bills, they simply can't pay them. So they are going into increasing debt to pay them.

Its like the guy falling down a skyscraper. Hows it going? All right so far.

People don't have income and disposible income levels increasing at the same rate as the cost of living. They simply have more credit available to them.

However quality of life is measure in many ways. No good having 2 new cars if when you have a heart attack from all the stress you have to wait on a trolley.

Amazotheamazing

In many cases such debt levels are brought about by viewing luxuries as essentials, I'm sure everybody knows people who are struggling to pay bills but at the same time refusing to accept they are living beyond their means. It seems people want a lifestyle beyond what they can afford.

I agree our health service is woeful, as are our trains etc, but quality of life in Ireland is still pretty good.

bounty

when is the house price crash going to happen?

thats when quality of life will start to get a lot better

jrey1981

It is all relative.

Compared to about two thirds of the population of the world, our quality of life is very enviable and Ireland is one of the richest countries in the world.

That said, globalisation means we are all competing to maintain or attain an ultimately unsustainable standard of living.

Like any competition, there are winners and losers and in the heat of it all certain elements of life are being lost.

Rockdolphin

There is a difference between quality of life and standard of living and both don't always go hand in hand. Certainly Ireland has improved in many ways since the 80's, financially and employment wise we are certainly better off, or so it would seem for now at least. All hail at the altar of the celtic tiger, our small town mentality is banished and we have now taken our place amongst the great modern first world nations, or so we believe. But just what does that get us ? The heady mixture of arrogance and intollerence is now pervasive throughout Ireland and can be seen in action at every turn 'sure stand up and let the old lady have a seat on the bus, but kick her out of the pub onto the street if she wants to have a ciggerette'.

Ireland becomes a more uncompromising schizophrenic society daily, so positive and sure of itself, its head so far up its own arse it fails to see just what a self righteous, self serving, greedy, pompous nation we have become. But do we care so long as the mortgages get paid and we can replace our 06's with 07's in our drive ? Mcdowell, Ahearne, Martin and co have completely lost the run of themselves feeling perfectly confident in micro managing our lives and passing lifestyle legislation to do so without as much as a murmer from anyone. Bar a number of independant columnist our press and national broadcaster seems not to have noticed just how freedom of choice in Ireland is rapidly becoming an optional extra as far as the govenment is concerned as they socialy engineer us all into productive cogs who will turn up for work on time everytime without question even if it means spending two hours to get there and then back everyday. No late nights enjoying yourself good citizen, just have a nice meal at the non-smoking cafe bar and home to bed early.

In debt in more ways than one we are all becoming, but as we travel to work on the shiny new Luas, dreaming the seemingly attainable dreams, do we really want to see the monster we are creating that lurks beneath the hustle and bustle ? Too late when the inevitable happens, the rates go up, the bills cannot be met and the factory goes East ! The Ireland that greets you will be the same that kicked the old lady out of the warm pub onto the cold street to have a ciggerette. Goodbye small town Ireland, welcome to small town America, the Ireland we have become, Happy days eh !