New M4 not being used

easylife

Anyone notice that the novelty opening of the new M4 has died off and commuter are using the old N4?
I've been exiting the slip road at kilcock to meet the new motorway the last few mornings and there is a tail back at the slip road but I only meet appx 2-3 cars using the new motorway.
They've shot themselves in the foot.
Good Enough!

cullenswood

easylife wrote:

They've shot themselves in the foot.
Good Enough!

:mad:

Who has shot who in the foot and why is it good enough for them.

Charles Darwin

cullenswood wrote:

Who has shot who in the foot

the first post said that whoever it was had shot themselves in the foot, so that should answer part of your question;)

Doolittle51

cullenswood wrote:

:mad:

Who has shot who in the foot and why is it good enough for them.

The Government I guess.

woody

It's like this at nearly 2.50 each way onto top of expensive fuel etc they better reduce there price by at least 90c

5 a day 25 a week, 100 a month 1100 a working year that is the cost of my tax and insurance for a year.

I sincerely hope it fails as it is by far the biggest rip off yet

Tom Dunne

I completely agree. I have noticed a decline in traffic on the N4, but I firmly believe if they had reduced the toll to under the psychological 2 Euro barrier, more people would use it.

As I have posted in the other thread, on the road at 6:30am the other morning, you wouldn't think the new motorway was open at all.

Bluetonic

Give me the Mway anyday over the N and R roads regardless of the cost of the toll.

Mway driving is much safer than N and R driving.

Overtaking can be done without running the risk of having to cut into the lane of oncoming traffic.

2.40 euro? Worth the life of that and your family?

murphaph

The toll operator will reduce the price if it believes they will make more money after the added maintenance on the road is factored in. I'm surprised there wasn't a 'honeymoon' period of €1 or even free use for the period up to jan 1st, just to tempt future customers. Isn't this Eurolink's first PPP motorway to open in Ireland? maybe they're finding their feet still.

mathie

Bluetonic wrote:

2.40 euro? Worth the life of that and your family?

Including In-Laws?

Peace

mathie wrote:

Including In-Laws?

mm, let me crunch some numbers and get back to you.

cullenswood

I just cant stand the people who just give out about it because it is tolled. I live in Enfield and I welcome it. It was never going to take ALL the traffic off the road, but what it will do is prevent major tailbacks occuring between Enfield and Kilcock, and further on around Clonard etc. People will mainly use it on Friday evenings etc, when the traffic is particularly bad.

Also, people in this country will have to get used to tolls. For 2.50 you will be saving at least 20 mins (and be driving safer). When you work this out, even if you are earning the minimum wage you would still be saving money.

beyondrapid

tolling would be ok if we didn't have to pay road tax as in france.

D'Peoples Voice

beyondrapid wrote:

tolling would be ok if we didn't have to pay road tax as in france.

I agree, I think we should increase the excise tax on petrol to match theirs instead of paying motor tax. At least this way, anyone who drives a lot will be screwed which is fairer!

egan007

The people that are pro-toll on these forums are the same people that are complaining about paying line rental to eircom and paying for broadband seperate...it's like paying for the same service twice....

Toll = Double taxation

Road Tax / Toll either is fine with me - just one at a time

Doolittle51

cullenswood wrote:

Also, people in this country will have to get used to tolls. For 2.50 you will be saving at least 20 mins (and be driving safer). When you work this out, even if you are earning the minimum wage you would still be saving money.

How's that?

KeithMur

Previous to the motorway opening it was taking me 50 mins from the slip road on Kilcock to Mullingar. The first evening it opened I did the journey in 25 minutes. Saving a great deal of time, I was mightily impressed, but I don't want to, even if I could pay the 2.40 so the next evening I took the old road. From the slip to Mullingar it took 35mins.

So even though i'm against the toll I'm also glad it was built. It is good to know that if I need to head home for any urgent reason that I can pay the toll and get there alot quicker. I'd say Friday's are the only days I'll consider using this, but we'll have to see how things settle down after christmas.

Zaph0d

D'Peoples Voice wrote:

I agree, I think we should increase the excise tax on petrol to match theirs instead of paying motor tax. At least this way, anyone who drives a lot will be screwed which is fairer!

Driving 100KM around Dublin imposes higher costs on society than driving 100KM in the countryside, so a pure fuel tax to replace road tax would be unfair to rural people who have no transport alternative to cars. Also fuel taxes can't get too far out of kilter with UK prices or too many people will get their fuel from the North.

Bluetonic

egan007 wrote:

Road Tax / Toll either is fine with me - just one at a time

Zaph0d wrote:

Driving 100KM around Dublin imposes higher costs on society than driving 100KM in the countryside, so a pure fuel tax to replace road tax would be unfair to rural people who have no transport alternative to cars.

But we don't pay 'Road Tax' in this country.

easylife

Joe Duffy having a good banter about it....

dmeehan

Bluetonic wrote:

But we don't pay 'Road Tax' in this country.

we do, its called Motor Vehicle Taxation.


(and we also pay Vehicle Registration Tax when we buy the car, and we pay a govt levy on all insurance premia):mad:

Trampas

Has people ever driven in France and the tolls they pay on roads over there.

Also Ireland is one of the cheapest countries in europe for petrol

How much is unleaded in england. I think it is around £1 a litre

Sleipnir

Bluetonic wrote:

2.40 euro? Worth the life of that and your family?

By the same logic, they could then charge people €50.
50 euro. Worth the life of you and your family?
They could use it for billboard advertising!

We shouldn't have to pay a premium for safe driving.

Sleipnir

Trampas wrote:

Has people ever driven in France and the tolls they pay on roads over there.

Also Ireland is one of the cheapest countries in europe for petrol
How much is unleaded in england. I think it is around £1 a litre

France has a well planned, well maintained and extensive motorway network.
We have a few stretches of short motorway and at each end is a villiage with one lane in each direction.

Do they pay VRT?
Have the got a higher or lower rate of annual car tax?
Do they have a higher or lower rate of VAT?

Ireland is certainly one of the most expensive places to drive in Europe.

woody

As motorists we are the biggest or one of the biggest cash cows of this economy, also the reason for the indequate public transport system is purposely done in order to generate the revenue that public transport would not.

easylife

Haulage companies are boycotting it. I know I am too - I don't pay any toll now - was paying M50 but now refuse. only way to beat the system.

Jip

Yeah, fight the power man, NTR are about to fold with the lack of people using it :rolleyes:

faigs

You're not really beating the system - they are more than likely not going to change the pricing, especially on the M50. By not using it you aren't causing any concern to the government or the NRA, probably just causing yourself hassle and stress by using busier routes.

murphaph

Sleipnir wrote:

France has a well planned, well maintained and extensive motorway network.
We have a few stretches of short motorway and at each end is a villiage with one lane in each direction.

Do they pay VRT?
Have the got a higher or lower rate of annual car tax?
Do they have a higher or lower rate of VAT?

....and is their economy an asthmatic old nag with a burgeoning welfare state that has high unemployment and a massive dependency on CAP?

There are pros and cons to most things. Think long term-we'll have a motorway from Dublin - Galway and it'll cost roughly a fiver in tolls. That's ok compared to many comparable journeys in France or Italy. You'll be able to go Dublin - Enniscorthy toll free, Dublin - Cork/Limerick for probably €5 too and maybe the same for Waterford. Dublin - Belfast €1.60 etc. I think these are all quite reasonable for private motorists who shouldn't be doing these distances regularly (daily). It's a very subjective thing, just a pity the tolls aren't operated by the government, then they could e a touch cheaper and still clear the loan in the same time frame (governments borrow money cheaper than Eurolink).

Compared to East/Westlink, this €2.50 would seem to me to be quite good value for the distance you get to travel.

easylife

and saving myself 2236 euro per year ;-))

murphaph

woody wrote:

As motorists we are the biggest or one of the biggest cash cows of this economy, also the reason for the indequate public transport system is purposely done in order to generate the revenue that public transport would not.

There's more than a grain of truth in that. The question is how long can this continue? We're at a stage now where even excellent PT would still see much private car use, so the government can get on with T21 (of course the roads come first under T21!)

Sleipnir

Jip wrote:

Yeah, fight the power man, NTR are about to fold with the lack of people using it :rolleyes:

You're right. Let's just bend over and take it. :rolleyes:

LFCFan

the way I see it is that most countries have 1 or 2 ways to tax motorists. Whether this is thru Road Tax, Duty on Fuel, Insurance Levys, Tolls, VRT and VAT on cars. In Ireland, we get screwed with them all. Road Tax is way too high (in the UK it's based on emissions and doesn't go very high). Petrol may be cheaper than a lot of places in Europe but most of it is still Duty. There is 2% on every insurance policy. Then, after paying all this tax which in theory should go towards building roads, we have to pay more money to use these roads. That's if you can even afford to buy a car once VAT and THEN VRT is added to the price. 1 or 2 forms of taxation to drive a car would be acceptable, but 5 is taking the piss.

egan007

Bluetonic wrote:

But we don't pay 'Road Tax' in this country.

Funny i have a form in front of me that says different

Gurgle

D'Peoples Voice wrote:

I agree, I think we should increase the excise tax on petrol to match theirs instead of paying motor tax. At least this way, anyone who drives a lot will be screwed which is fairer!

I agree in principle, but have to point out:
The average price of 1L in France is dearer than here, but the average cost of 1L is pretty much the same.

About 18 months ago I filled the car at €1.17 in Rosslare, at the time Dublin was on average €1.10. I saw €1.25 in several places driving across Brittany but it was €1.12 at the supermarket in any decent sized town.

Maskhadov

Tolls are a necessity. We need to keep the day trippers off the road. there are people out there who sit down to think of a reason to drive on a road. It will make bus and rail journeys more appealing.

Imposter

Maskhadov wrote:

Tolls are a necessity. We need to keep the day trippers off the road. there are people out there who sit down to think of a reason to drive on a road. It will make bus and rail journeys more appealing.

Well if that's your attitude surely long distance commuters should be charged extra seeing as they are the main reason the road in question is needed!

Maskhadov

I dont know Imposter, but anything that cuts down car journeys is a great idea IMO.

Better buses,cheaper tickets and more of them should be the carrot though.

jank

Private buses are boycotting it too.

I wonder will Bus Eireann do the same?

stag39

for ur info..as far as i remember it costs something like 16 euro..( i can get right price if anyone requests it)...thats a cost(one toll) from driving from paris to limouges a distance of just under 400 km's as far as i recall...now thats a fair price....only 3.5 hours instead of 8 hours...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

they should only put the price of 2.50 euro on the M4 when it is compleated to galway!!!!

price of fuel in france (correct me if im wrong hagger please) is only a little dearer than here!!!

mike65

The toll on the N4 was discussed on Liveline today (Thursday) and one guy who runs about 20 trucks which take in the tollbrige calculated his company would spend €120,000 pa on tolls so his trucks are going through Enfield

Mike.

Metrobest

But how much time will his drivers save by more reliable journey times and no bottlenecks on the villages that litter the N4? Wait and see when the whole route to Ballinasloe comes on stream - see then how many vehicles will avoid the toll!

I imagine that Dublin-Galway bus services will split into two seperate markets. The ecomony bus stopping at all the villages en route to Galway. And the more expensive but much faster direct route via the continuous highway.

Bluetonic

egan007 wrote:

Funny i have a form in front of me that says different

Scan and attach.

No such specific thing as 'Road Tax' in the Republic of Ireland

stag39

Bluetonic wrote:

Scan and attach.

No such specific thing as 'Road Tax' in the Republic of Ireland

and cars don't use the roads at all!!!.....:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

stag39

Metrobest wrote:

I imagine that Dublin-Galway bus services will split into two seperate markets. The ecomony bus stopping at all the villages en route to Galway. And the more expensive but much faster direct route via the continuous highway.

3-1 that air-coach will be the motorway user...;)

Bluetonic

stag39 wrote:

and cars don't use the roads at all!!!.....:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

For the love of God.

stag39

Bluetonic wrote:

For the love of God.

eh bluey... is it not the case of the "tax" licensing a motorised vechicle to use the road therefore it is a road tax!

Alun

mike65 wrote:

The toll on the N4 was discussed on Liveline today (Thursday) and one guy who runs about 20 trucks which take in the tollbrige calculated his company would spend €120,000 pa on tolls so his trucks are going through Enfield

But as I said in an earlier post that's a totally meaningless statistic unless you place it in context with his other costs ... maintenance, fuel, tax, wages etc. etc.

One return journey through the tolls will cost him a staggering €12. Put that against the total cost of transporting that load and what he's charging the customer and it's going to be peanuts, I'll bet. Plus if it's a job where he's doing regular shuttles between one place an another, shifting gravel, or soil or something, he'll be able to get another couple of trips in because of the lack of congestion and make even more money.

Bluetonic

stag39 wrote:

eh bluey... is it not the case of the "tax" licensing a motorised vechicle to use the road therefore it is a road tax!

I'm not trying to debate what type of tax it is or isn't, just simply stating the fact that there is no such specific thing as Road Tax in this country, as pedantic as I am being, it's Motor Tax.

Beep Beep!

delly

I've been living on the southside of Drogheda for the past year and the amount of HGV traffic that goes through the town is unbelievble. You'll have companies travelling in convoys of 2 to 4 trucks all hours of the day and night. Regular car traffic is harder to judge, but for an area that has a smashing bypass, it just doesn't make sense.

Check this link out. It basically gives you an idea of how the M1 has caused only a temporary reduction in traffic for the village of Julianstown.

http://www.julianstown.com/traffic.htm

stag39

Bluetonic wrote:

I'm not trying to debate what type of tax it is or isn't, just simply stating the fact that there is no such specific thing as Road Tax in this country, as pedantic as I am being, it's Motor Tax.

Beep Beep!

putting a note in the head to chat to ivor the tank engine to push on changing the wording in docs etc. to road tax... eh don't tractors have motors in them and classed as motorised vechicles and the farmer dosn't have to get tax if he keeps it off the road... and a car untaxed will be lifted by the guards if not displaying his motor tax....as it is untaxed and on the road!

sorry mod's for going off topic ...tis the last of it as have to head to work...:)

Sleipnir

Truckers plan to jam toll booth as anger mounts at €6.40 journey cost

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Treacy Hogan

Environment

Correspondent

TRUCKERS mounting a full-scale boycott of the new €320m M4/M6 Kilcock to Kinnegad toll road are planning a day of protest.

They now intend to turn up at the toll booths in their thousands - and refuse to pay the charges.

The majority of trucks operating in the Kildare/Meath area or travelling from the Sligo and Galway direction to Dublin are now boycotting the road, according to the Irish Road Haulage Associationyesterday.

They are instead diverting to the existing road network around the village of Enfield, creating road safety and pollution risks.

The move has provoked fury among many villagers in Enfield and surrounding areas whose narrow roads are carrying thousands of trucks every day.

The toll road was only opened last Monday by Taoiseach Bertie Ahern.

The aim was to provide a safe new route for heavy trucks operating between the west and north west and the Dublin region and those hauling goods from the Midlands to and from the greater Dublin area.

However, after less than a week in operation, the Irish Road Haulage Association said most trucks were avoiding the new road and diverting to the existing roads network in the region.

A number of haulage companies have instructed their drivers not to use the toll road because of the €12.80 round trip cost.

And a massive day protest action is being planned involving thousands of trucks turning up at the M4 toll booths on the new motorway and refusing to pay.

IRHA spokesperson Jimmy Quinn said he believed that Eurolink Ltd, the private toll operators, would allow the trucks through the booths to avoid massive disruption.

The toll, at €6.40 one-way for hauliers, is the dearest in the country and the IRHA has described it as "arbitrary taxation" of the haulage industry.

More than 20,000 vehicles a day have used the road since it opened earlier this week, a Department of Transport spokesman revealed yesterday.

"The road users will be the judges of this road," he added.