David McWilliams - Whats his problem!?

Trotter

Just watching a program called the Big Bite on RTE.. its along the lines of a panel who talk about current affairs, chaired by David McWilliams.

He just made a statement that makes me sick.. I think it was FG's Alan Dukes that mentioned the new road between Waterford and Dublin..

McWilliams replied.. Oh the big 5 lane highway? a road where nobody drives on it anyway??

Basically implying that the new Waterford to Dublin road isnt needed. It proves that he lives in a little bubble called Dublin. I wonder what state his underpants would be in if he drove through Thomastown on the way to Waterford, (a major city in the spacial strategy), at a constant speed of 50km per hour. Thats a major route right? Yet you cant drive side by side with a bus coming the opposite way.

The likes of that ill informed journalism make me sick!

mike65

He's been banging on about the road for ages. Somone did a traffic survey that magaged to come up with a strange result - that less than 1000 people drive between Dublin and Waterford or the other way in a typical day. Even if that were true it would still overlook the amount of traffic between all points on the N9 ie Waterford-Kilkenny, Kilkenny-Carlow, Carlow-Naas, and all the other variations on that theme.

Dubs can see no furthur than The Pale, it was ever thus.

Mike.

meldrew

I actually saw that tpday and could'nt believe his attitude . its just typical of the Dublin media in general no-where exists outside of Dublin except maybe Galway because they all go on their holidays there

Trotter

Just a quick mail regarding David's comment regarding the Waterford to
Dublin Motorway on today's show (Wednesday 7/12/05).

While I enjoy the show, and agree with many of David McWilliams views,
I was disgusted by his flippant comment regarding the proposed
Waterford to Dublin road, along the lines of "Oh the big 5 lane
highway? a road where nobody drives on it anyway??"

Can I remind David that there are more places in Ireland where money
needs to be spent, and not just Dublin. There is already massive
research to show this road is needed in order to realise the potential
of the south east.

Maybe David should spend some time outside of Dublin? Or maybe Im
wrong and ALL of my tax money should be spent in Dublin. How naive of
us South Easterners to think otherwise.

The existing road to Dublin from Waterford is a outdated disgrace and
is frustratingly dangerous, and such comments would never have been
made if David had checked the facts first. Id be curious to know when
David last even used the road he seems to know so much about.

Many Thanks!

decies

Well done on that e-mail and dont even mention Decentralisation!!!!!!

Trotter

decies wrote:

Well done on that e-mail and dont even mention Decentralisation!!!!!!

I didnt expect much better....

"Thank you for contacting The Big Bite and taking the time to respond to items featured on the show.

Whilst we are unable to acknowledge every e-mail individually we do read ALL correspondence and appreciate your comments and feedback regarding the programme.... etc etc

Best regards,"

Squiggle

You can let McWilliams himself know how you feel :http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/

merlante

Seem him a detailed email that should set him right!

DéiseGirl

merlante wrote:

Seem him a detailed email that should set him right!

LOL no better man!

PS had to laugh at the Indo the other day - not one mention of the march in Waterford on Friday, yet places like Tralee and Athlone got a mention.

Paranoid? Probably, but justifiably.

merlante

D&#233 wrote: »

LOL no better man!

PS had to laugh at the Indo the other day - not one mention of the march in Waterford on Friday, yet places like Tralee and Athlone got a mention.

Paranoid? Probably, but justifiably.

Damn right, have a lot of respect for McWilliams, but these days he seems to be believing too much in his own hype. His propensity to invent buzz words is starting to get on my nerves big time. Plus he's just plain wrong on the Waterford road. The statistics and arguments I sent him are undeniable.

That doesn't surprise me at all.

DéiseGirl

merlante wrote:

Damn right, have a lot of respect for McWilliams, but these days he seems to be believing too much in his own hype. His propensity to invent buzz words is starting to get on my nerves big time. Plus he's just plain wrong on the Waterford road. The statistics and arguments I sent him are undeniable.

That doesn't surprise me at all.

You'll sort him out bigtime!

In fairness to RTE, the Duffer was reporting from Waterford on Liveline and kept interrupting conversations to give updated figures from around the country and he was keeping tabs on Waterford too. Then again, think he has a bit of a soft spot for Waterford

Anyway, it was the first time I'd seen the Indo in months. It seems to have gotten worse if that was even possible?!

invincibleirish

Trotter wrote:

Just watching a program called the Big Bite on RTE.. its along the lines of a panel who talk about current affairs, chaired by David McWilliams.

He just made a statement that makes me sick.. I think it was FG's Alan Dukes that mentioned the new road between Waterford and Dublin..

McWilliams replied.. Oh the big 5 lane highway? a road where nobody drives on it anyway??

Basically implying that the new Waterford to Dublin road isnt needed. It proves that he lives in a little bubble called Dublin. I wonder what state his underpants would be in if he drove through Thomastown on the way to Waterford, (a major city in the spacial strategy), at a constant speed of 50km per hour. Thats a major route right? Yet you cant drive side by side with a bus coming the opposite way.

The likes of that ill informed journalism make me sick!

well he would be right in the sense that the motorway is more a status project then actually a vital project, in the national scheme of things the waterford road should be lower on the list of NRA projects simply because less people will avail of it(the waterford city bypass is something however that is more needed and should have been built by now)

as for the National spatial strategy its problem is that there are two many places which got gateway designation in it.if you took away the real politik that ran thru the NSS then you would be left with 2/3/4 gateways as opposed to the 8 there are.(i would have taken Cork and Limerick/Shannon as the two gateway cities).

merlante

invincibleirish wrote:

well he would be right in the sense that the motorway is more a status project then actually a vital project, in the national scheme of things the waterford road should be lower on the list of NRA projects simply because less people will avail of it(the waterford city bypass is something however that is more needed and should have been built by now)

as for the National spatial strategy its problem is that there are two many places which got gateway designation in it.if you took away the real politik that ran thru the NSS then you would be left with 2/3/4 gateways as opposed to the 8 there are.(i would have taken Cork and Limerick/Shannon as the two gateway cities).

The status thing is Garbage. It is needed. See an extract that I sent to McWilliams below with some facts. Also, you accept the need for a dual-carriageway bypass of Waterford, but you say that a dual-carriageway to Waterford, (from Dublin) leading to the bypass is not required. That does not make much sense.

The Gateways should be the cities: Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Galway and Waterford. Waterford's position as a port, relative to Europe, means that it's share of this market will grow further. It has always had a geographically strategic location, as well as the population, which makes it a natural gateway to the country.

From the mail I sent to McWilliams:
"...The simple fact is that the N9 is such an unholy disgrace that most people leave the road at various points, or choose to travel along the N11 instead. The N9 is such a clogged artery that the traffic has been diffused across the numerous roads and dirt tracks in an effort to avoid the various bottle necks and make decent time. So I don't at all accept that any measurement of current road traffic, especially on certain tracts of road, can be in any way indicative of expected traffic volumes on a high quality dual-carriageway.

If you don't believe me, consider the following comparisons of populations. The new M9 will run through Kildare and down to the south east, where if we disinclude Wexford, as being served by the N11, and South Tipperary, as being served by the N8, there are some 230,000 people residing. That is we forget for a moment that the road also serves Kildare. Now, if we look to the Galway road, the N6, we see that this road serves Offaly, Galway, a small portion of south Roscommon and Kildare. Again, if we disinclude Kildare, the population being served by the road is some 285,000.

This figure of a 285,000 catchment population for the N6 is quite a generous one considering the vast amount of remote hinterland that is expected to be served by the road, whereas the population in the South East is densely packed and is distributed quite close to the N9. In addition to this, the N9 directly serves the large towns of Carlow and Kilkenny which are compact populations and major industrial zones of the future, whereas Athlone is the only such town served by the N6.

In any case, the two National Primary routes, the N6 and the N9, serve similar populations, but we are told that the road to Galway is totally justified and beyond question, whereas the road to Waterford is considered a waste of money and glibly derided by various interests, including now, David McWilliams!

If I accept the thesis that there is no (traffic) demand for a Waterford dual-carriageway, and I certainly do not accept this thesis, but if I do, then can you please tell me why more people would travel on the M6 than the M9, given that the populations in question are roughly equal? If this were true, it would seem indicate that Galway is simply a more prosperous and thriving city than Waterford is, and therefore naturally has more communication with the capital. If this is the case, which, road traffic aside, it seems to be, then how should we rectify this imbalance? How can we make Waterford the economic performer that Galway and Limerick currently are?

There are two things I would do. Firstly I would build a first class road link to Dublin, as good as the one to Galway or Limerick. Traffic volumes and a lagging, old industry based, local economy requires that this piece of infrastructure be provided as soon as possible.

One way or another, the road has to be upgraded anyway, and aren't we always complaining that the government develops without any vision? ..."

Trotter

invincibleirish wrote:

well he would be right in the sense that the motorway is more a status project then actually a vital project, in the national scheme of things the waterford road should be lower on the list of NRA projects simply because less people will avail of it(the waterford city bypass is something however that is more needed and should have been built by now)

as for the National spatial strategy its problem is that there are two many places which got gateway designation in it.if you took away the real politik that ran thru the NSS then you would be left with 2/3/4 gateways as opposed to the 8 there are.(i would have taken Cork and Limerick/Shannon as the two gateway cities).

Well..ok.. Being from Cork, of course you'd choose Cork. In the same logic, if you were living in Waterford and trying to travel to Dublin often, that would also reflect in your opinion I presume.

I agree that there is a big status attached to the new road but come on.. We have 1 bridge.. and stunted economic development that all comes back to infrastructure. Cork dosnt suffer this in the same way because it is better served by its TDs and has been over the years.

You must concede that its pointless to bypass the city so you drive on a nice new road as far as the new bridge, and then get stuck at Thomastown. You surely have to concede that the Waterford to Paulstown road is not suitable for the volume of traffic it holds. The figures of people travelling on that road is artificially low because so many people, especially freight drivers, prefer to travel through New Ross because of the bottlenecks in the Waterford to Carlow stretch.

So, given that I agree with some of your opinions, and Ive tried to be balanced, give me some reasons why Waterford should be ignored in terms of gateway city status and infrastructural investment?

I have to say I have a feeling its based on the fact that there is a feeling that Waterfords growth will take from Cork's current success. I disagree with that. Cork is fine as it is, and has plenty of expansion possibilities and infrastructural investment.

Why begrudge Waterford a few basics.. i.e. a proper road to the capital?

Dac51

despite their parochial (and i mean this in the exact way) views on transport, the national census shows that the southeast has the
country's least serious commuter problems. I spoke at an ibec conference
in waterford two weeks ago and made this point. the southeast has
therefore a much better quality of life than most parts of the country
and it amazes me that rather than doing some hard research and finding
data to support their stance, they simply shout and slag! D.

Response to the e-mail I sent to McWilliams. Can't say I'm surprised.

Our man in Havana

I am amazed at reply! The cheek of him!

Freddie59

Bond-007 wrote:

I am amazed at reply! The cheek of him!

He's a condescending, wanabee, Gaybo.:mad:

invincibleirish

Trotter wrote:

Well..ok.. Being from Cork, of course you'd choose Cork. In the same logic, if you were living in Waterford and trying to travel to Dublin often, that would also reflect in your opinion I presume.

I agree that there is a big status attached to the new road but come on.. We have 1 bridge.. and stunted economic development that all comes back to infrastructure. Cork dosnt suffer this in the same way because it is better served by its TDs and has been over the years.

You must concede that its pointless to bypass the city so you drive on a nice new road as far as the new bridge, and then get stuck at Thomastown. You surely have to concede that the Waterford to Paulstown road is not suitable for the volume of traffic it holds. The figures of people travelling on that road is artificially low because so many people, especially freight drivers, prefer to travel through New Ross because of the bottlenecks in the Waterford to Carlow stretch.

So, given that I agree with some of your opinions, and Ive tried to be balanced, give me some reasons why Waterford should be ignored in terms of gateway city status and infrastructural investment?

I have to say I have a feeling its based on the fact that there is a feeling that Waterfords growth will take from Cork's current success. I disagree with that. Cork is fine as it is, and has plenty of expansion possibilities and infrastructural investment.

Why begrudge Waterford a few basics.. i.e. a proper road to the capital?

well im not against Waterford development as it might be a threat to Cork, far from it.my problem with the NSS is that its primary goal was to develop sufficent counter weight areas to the greater Dublin area that would add as magnets for investment (transport and the like)and grow as rival large population centres,However for a country of 4 million with the size that it is the amount of gateways(Cork,Limerick/Shannon,Galway,Dublin,Waterford,Midlands triangle,Dundalk,Sligo and ?Letterkenny/Derry) is simply far too many and defeats the original point of the plan.politics unfortunately was the main reason as to why so many cities were included.

i do not begrudge Waterford a Road to the capital either but i do believe it should not be finished until other more vital road projects are completely finished namely the M7/8 project,the completion of the M1/A1 to belfast and the M50 upgrade. i would be in favour as already stated of the original proposed ring road for the city which has been delayed far too long as well as an extension to waterford city bus services as well as more bridges.however as for bottlenecks like you mentioned they are a fact of life for every city/town in the country.

Bards

Bulls**t........Waterford needs the N9/M9 YESTERDAY. We are not going to be told that every other piece of infrastructure in this whole country will be finished first...

Remeber Waterford has progressivley fallen down the urban hirearchy all because of lack of infrastructure.. If we were to wait until everything else is built. then places like ballygobackwards will be more advanced than us.

We live in a democracy and we are entitled..no wait Demand Infrastructure now...

Trotter

invincibleirish wrote:

however as for bottlenecks like you mentioned they are a fact of life for every city/town in the country.

Fair points.. but I disagree. I dont think you realise the kind of bottleneck that exists in thomastown. Its as wide as 1 truck!

Have you ever driven from Waterford city to Dublin via Thomastown?

mike65

I suspect our friend from the rebel county thinks the n9/n10 is bit like the N8 and has never come round a bend in Thomastown to be confronted by a 40 foot truck! Or nearly getting his arse chopped off as two trucks edge past each other in the same hellhole. He/she proberly does'nt know the joys of the zig-zag railway bridge sections either.

Mike.

Our man in Havana

I take it the compulsory diversion for trucks via the N10 is frequently ignored, does it have any legal standing?

Dac51

invincibleirish wrote:

well im not against Waterford development as it might be a threat to Cork, far from it.my problem with the NSS is that its primary goal was to develop sufficent counter weight areas to the greater Dublin area that would add as magnets for investment (transport and the like)and grow as rival large population centres,However for a country of 4 million with the size that it is the amount of gateways(Cork,Limerick/Shannon,Galway,Dublin,Waterford,Midlands triangle,Dundalk,Sligo and ?Letterkenny/Derry) is simply far too many and defeats the original point of the plan.politics unfortunately was the main reason as to why so many cities were included.

i do not begrudge Waterford a Road to the capital either but i do believe it should not be finished until other more vital road projects are completely finished namely the M7/8 project,the completion of the M1/A1 to belfast and the M50 upgrade. i would be in favour as already stated of the original proposed ring road for the city which has been delayed far too long as well as an extension to waterford city bus services as well as more bridges.however as for bottlenecks like you mentioned they are a fact of life for every city/town in the country.

I would recommend anyone who hasn't driven along the N9 between Paulstown and Waterford to give a try. It is a perfect stretch of road to really test your driving skills.

Start at Waterford and experience the rollercoster that is the stretch of road leading into Mullinavat with more dips and humps to really test your stomach, and no hard shoulder either with a 10-15 foot drop on the left and a concrete wall on the right.

Then experience a 1/2 mile straight downhill stretch of road between Mullinavat and Ballyhale with glorious hard shoulders on either side. Smile as you cruise at 100 kmh on a straight until you realise that the road is narrowing fast and you realise that there is 90 degree turn under a railway bridge dead ahead with just enough space for two cars - hope those brakes work.

On then to Ballyhale and swing right on to the N9. This is where the real test starts. No you are not lost on some back road in the middle of the country - You are now on your way to Thomastown on the N9. That's right, you are on a national primary route. Where are the hard shoulders you ask? Why is this national primary route so narrow? Why are there so many bends and twists in the road? Why does the road twisting around Jerpoint Abbey feel like a country lane?

Stop asking yourself so many questions and pay attention to your driving. You are now entering Thomastown. Turn up the concentration level. Drive down the hill into Thomastown. A 90 degree turn left will take you onto the bridge. Before you have fully completed the turn you have to make another hard right. Before you can complete that turn you have to make a hard left on to the main street and then another hard right off the main street.

You then come to the spot that is the worst excuse for a national primary route anywhere in Ireland. This is the spot that other posters have talked about. This must be the most dangerous part of the road network in Ireland I kid you not. It is a left turn to go up a hill that takes you out of Thomastown. However the road narrows so much at this spot that it is literally two cars wide. There are houses on each side and I really pity the people who live here. Two cars wide - not trucks or vans but cars - at the bottom of a hill. :eek:

Anyway after the heart stopping experince enjoy more bends and twists with no hard shoulder all the way to Gowran. After Gowran the road is not that bad leading into Paulstown and once you reach this town the driving skills test is over.

I might have forgotten some other spots on this road worth a mention so feel free to remind me if I have.

To sum up, the road between Waterford and Paulstown is literally a joke in the 21st century. A national primary route between two cities in Ireland that has to be seen (and driven on) to be believed. No other national primary route between Dublin and the cities is as bad as this. You ask why should a motorway be built between Waterford and Dublin when the traffic volume doesn't justify it. It is because people are now looking to any alternative route they can in order to get to Dublin. The current N9 is becoming too unsafe. Why should Waterford wait to have a motorway to Dublin built? Why should motorways to Cork, Limerick and Galway be built first? Why?

Rant over. :mad:

Dac.

Freddie59

Dac51 wrote:

I would recommend anyone who hasn't driven along the N9 between Paulstown and Waterford to give a try. It is a perfect stretch of road to really test your driving skills.

Start at Waterford and experience the rollercoster that is the stretch of road leading into Mullinavat with more dips and humps to really test your stomach, and no hard shoulder either with a 10-15 foot drop on the left and a concrete wall on the right.

Then experience a 1/2 mile straight downhill stretch of road between Mullinavat and Ballyhale with glorious hard shoulders on either side. Smile as you cruise at 100 kmh on a straight until you realise that the road is narrowing fast and you realise that there is 90 degree turn under a railway bridge dead ahead with just enough space for two cars - hope those brakes work.

On then to Ballyhale and swing right on to the N9. This is where the real test starts. No you are not lost on some back road in the middle of the country - You are now on your way to Thomastown on the N9. That's right, you are on a national primary route. Where are the hard shoulders you ask? Why is this national primary route so narrow? Why are there so many bends and twists in the road? Why does the road twisting around Jerpoint Abbey feel like a country lane?

Stop asking yourself so many questions and pay attention to your driving. You are now entering Thomastown. Turn up the concentration level. Drive down the hill into Thomastown. A 90 degree turn left will take you onto the bridge. Before you have fully completed the turn you have to make another hard right. Before you can complete that turn you have to make a hard left on to the main street and then another hard right off the main street.

You then come to the spot that is the worst excuse for a national primary route anywhere in Ireland. This is the spot that other posters have talked about. This must be the most dangerous part of the road network in Ireland I kid you not. It is a left turn to go up a hill that takes you out of Thomastown. However the road narrows so much at this spot that it is literally two cars wide. There are houses on each side and I really pity the people who live here. Two cars wide - not trucks or vans but cars - at the bottom of a hill. :eek:

Anyway after the heart stopping experince enjoy more bends and twists with no hard shoulder all the way to Gowran. After Gowran the road is not that bad leading into Paulstown and once you reach this town the driving skills test is over.

I might have forgotten some other spots on this road worth a mention so feel free to remind me if I have.

To sum up, the road between Waterford and Paulstown is literally a joke in the 21st century. A national primary route between two cities in Ireland that has to be seen (and driven on) to be believed. No other national primary route between Dublin and the cities is as bad as this. You ask why should a motorway be built between Waterford and Dublin when the traffic volume doesn't justify it. It is because people are now looking to any alternative route they can in order to get to Dublin. The current N9 is becoming too unsafe. Why should Waterford wait to have a motorway to Dublin built? Why should motorways to Cork, Limerick and Galway be built first? Why?

Rant over. :mad:

Dac.

Dac - that is, without exception, the best description of that dirt track that I have ever seen. Well done.:D

Our man in Havana

I wonder if someone can do a similar job on the N10 rat run?

Dac51

Freddie59 wrote:

Dac - that is, without exception, the best description of that dirt track that I have ever seen. Well done.:D

Thanks. I was just in one of those moods last night and while reading this thread I couldn't believe how some people could say that Waterford should wait for a new road to be built when they have no idea how bad the current road is.

mike65

Bond-007 wrote:

I wonder if someone can do a similar job on the N10 rat run?

My favourite bit is Dungarvan that sharp right hander, there is a house with a
replastered section - guess what happened there!

Mike.

Our man in Havana

Do the cops have any power to prosecute truck drivers who ignore the diversion via Kilkenny?

Roanmore

Bond-007 wrote:

Do the cops have any power to prosecute truck drivers who ignore the diversion via Kilkenny?

Apparently not, my sister lives in Thomastown and the Guards said they do not have the power to compel the trucks to take the N10. The truck drivers say the N10 adds 30 mins on to their journey oblivious to the fact that by going on the N9 they are doing the exact same to the rest of the motorists.

The Council wanted to put a one way system through Thomastown but the shops on the main street objected because people would not stop at their shops. Again oblivious to the fact that one, people won't stop there because there is no parking and two the misery that double parking causes to the people passing through there. People need to see the bigger picture

TrickyKid

I've driven on numerous occasions to carlow and kilkenny - and I assumed the road to Waterford was similarly decent. I couldn't believe over the new year when I drove back up to dublin on the N9 how appalling it was till you got to carlow (well a bit before that, but you know what I mean) there's NO doubt that the journey to Carlow is a walk in the park and that it's fantastically served by the current M9 and the upgraded stretch of the N9.

But after that it's TERRIBLE and dangerous.

Maharet

McWilliams should be put on the bus to Waterford from Dublin, then he'd see how much the uprgrade isn't needed, wanker! 4 hours it takes somedays!