Chapelizod Traffic Plan

gobdaw

“Dublin City Council is preparing a Traffic Management Plan for the Chapelizod area”, a plan which means closing Knockmaroon Hill/Martin’s Row totally to motor traffic to and from Castleknock, Blanchardstown, etc to Ballyfermot, Drimnagh etc. and of course from those parts to Blanch, including Blanch Shopping Centre.
Current, more orbital, traffic will be forced into the central core of the city with consequential impact on traffic on the Quays, etc.
This is one of three routes to and from D15. Displaced traffic would be forced to travel via Phoenix Park or Blackhorse Avenue/Navan Road. Corridors, which are currently approaching overload, would receive a probable 50% increase in usage. Even more traffic chaos looms.
It is proposed to sacrifice the common good of the greater for the narrow sectional interests of a few.

“The traffic management options considered in the plan will be on display from 9.00 a.m. to 5.00 p.m. at the following locations;
Dublin City Council, Civic Offices, Wood Quay, Dublin 8.
Dublin City Council, Ballyfermot Civic Centre, Ballyfermot Road, Dublin 10.
from Monday 28th November to Friday 9th December 2005 inclusive.
The public is invited to comment on the options considered. All submissions will be considered in the review.
All written submissions on the Chapelizod Traffic Management Plan 2005 must be addressed to Dublin City Council, Kilmainham Area Office, 639 South Circular Road, Dublin 8. E-mail kilmainham.regoffice@dublincity.ie
The latest date for receipt of submissions is 5.00 p.m. on Friday 16th December 2005.”

D'Peoples Voice

gobdaw wrote:

“Dublin City Council is preparing a Traffic Management Plan for the Chapelizod area”, a plan which means closing Knockmaroon Hill/Martin’s Row totally to motor traffic to and from Castleknock, Blanchardstown, etc to Ballyfermot, Drimnagh etc. and of course from those parts to Blanch, including Blanch Shopping Centre.

At last, it was getting very difficult to get parking at the newly opened Spar!
This is a great move, because it gives the village back to it's inhabitants,
even if I am a blow-in to the village:)
Anyone who knows how narrow this road is,
will recognise this is a no-brainer, it was being abused as a rat-run!
If only they will put a bus-lane the whole length of the road from Parkgate street to Chapelizod, it'd be fantastic!

Sarsfield

Yup, it's just a little country lane. I sometimes get a taxi from home to the airport along that road and even at the crack of dawn (middle of the night in fact), there's traffic backed up along that road. It's just not suitable for city traffic and should be closed off.

Victor

Link http://www.dublincity.ie/press_news/news/chapelizod_traffic_management_plan.asp

daymobrew

D'Peoples Voice wrote:

At last, it was getting very difficult to get parking at the newly opened Spar!
This is a great move, because it gives the village back to it's inhabitants,
even if I am a blow-in to the village:)
Anyone who knows how narrow this road is,
will recognise this is a no-brainer, it was being abused as a rat-run!

As a lifetime resident of Castleknock this route has always been one used to get to Ballyfermot, Kylemore Road etc, it's not an abused rat-run.

Of the plan, a Fingal Councillor said that the villagers of Castleknock (long term inhabitants and blow-ins) would love to close their roads, but it just isn't feasible.

What are the alternatives? Through Phoenix Park onto quays, u-turn at first bridge and all the way back? [Knockmaroon and Chapelizod gates are closed at night so this would be required then]
It would be wrong to send people through the Chapelizod gate of Phoenix Park - a single lane gate where people have no sense of 'turns' (ie let one out, let one in).

I am a cyclist but still acknowledge the need for this route.

Sarsfield wrote:

Yup, it's just a little country lane.

That cannot be a reason to close it. You should see Rugged Lane and Sommerton Road that bring you from Porterstown to Strawberry Beds and onto Lucan. Even Tinkers Hill is bad. These are all routes to Lucan (they converge at Lower Lucan Road before crossing the small bridge over the Liffey).

I'll have to pop into Wood Quay tomorrow.

s8n

absolutly ridiculous proposal.

daymobrew

Victor wrote:

Link http://www.dublincity.ie/press_news/news/chapelizod_traffic_management_plan.asp

What a crappy page (not your fault Victor). They should have at least put a few PDF files up there.
I phoned the Kilmainham Area Office and got the phone equivalent of a blank stare. The old biddy there hadn't a clue what I was on about.

daymobrew

http://www.dublincity.ie/press_news/news/chapelizod_traffic_management_plan.asp
I just got a call from the Kilmainham office. Additional information will be put on the site today, with the last day for submissions extended to January 21st.

gobdaw

D'Peoples Voice wrote:

At last, it was getting very difficult to get parking at the newly opened Spar!
This is a great move, because it gives the village back to it's inhabitants,
even if I am a blow-in to the village:)
Anyone who knows how narrow this road is,
will recognise this is a no-brainer, it was being abused as a rat-run!
If only they will put a bus-lane the whole length of the road from Parkgate street to Chapelizod, it'd be fantastic!

But what if the residents of Parkgate St look to give the street back to its inhabitants by closing it?
Bus lanes and parking seem like your wearing different hats. Anyway, another proposal, which I support, will reduce parking and give the triangular area over to amenity use for the village.
Blanch, Clonsilla address their traffic by bye-pass, not closure. We’re talking about a National Road here, not a “rat run” through some housing estate in suburbia! As a self confessed blow-in, (your label), that was the situation before you and for as long back as you like.

I'm afraid the no-brainer here is whoever concived of this plan.

murphaph

This 'plan' is simply crazy to be contemplating in it's current form. Think about it for a moment (ignoring narrow local interests), if this route is closed it effectively removes Chapelizod bridge from the (few) bridges available to cross the Liffey between Islandbridge and the county boundary with Kildare. From Islandbrige there are currently only 4 bridges over the Liffey that are entirely within the Dublin Region. They Are; Sarah Bridge, Chapelizod Bridge, Westlink and Lucan Bridge. This 'plan' effectively eliminates 25% of the cross-river routes and will cause massive disruption (not just to motorists but to the inhabitants of the routes that displaced traffic will now take, primarily the bridge at Lucan).

I also live in D15, though I'd rarely if ever use Knockmaroon hill as I work in D15 (thank Christ-10mins on a bike and I'm in work). I could accept the logic behind this if the ORR had been constructed as originally planned in the 1970s but that's not going to happen now.

I would love to see the charming village of Chapelizod returned to it's inhabitants, but not at the cost of tens of thousands of commuters who REALLY HAVE NO EASY ALTERNATIVE. Try talking a bus from D15 to Ballyfermot and see how easy it is (the 76A ranks among the worst bus routes in Dublin-no question)! If they must close this route to private cars, they should install powered bollards and allow a fast, frequent IMP bus to run between Blanchardstown Town Centre and somewhere beyond Ballyfermot, taking as much advantage of existing and future bus lanes as possible.

This is clearly a case of the City Council saying fcuk off to Fingal Co Co. It's a narrow NIMY attitude from the city council and further demonstrates the need for a single transport authority for the Dublin Region, taking these responsibilities away from local councillors with their own personal agendas.

daymobrew

murphaph wrote:

This 'plan' is simply crazy to be contemplating in it's current form. Think about it for a moment (ignoring narrow local interests), if this route is closed it effectively removes Chapelizod bridge from the (few) bridges available to cross the Liffey between Islandbridge and the county boundary with Kildare.

I think you misunderstand the proposal. As far as I know (still waiting for the plan to be uploaded to dublincity.ie) the proposal is to close, in some form, the road that leads up to Knockmaroon Hill (called Main Street), not the bridge across the river.

When the proposal is online please review it and submit your comments. Discussions here won't make any difference to the actions of Dublin City Council.

gobdaw

In similar situations elsewhere, a relief/bye-pass would be provided to cater for and attract traffic not requiring access to that village or whatever. After that provision, traffic calming measures would then be considered. In fact, no such measures might then be requires in the changed circumstances. Such a relief road for Chapelizod (with improved capacity), could possibly be routed through Glenaulin with a new bridge across the Liffey. Would a traffic count justify this? While it may be would be more expensive in capital costs to the local authority (perhaps shared with Fingal?), it would address the situation in a more conventional and less divisive way, improving things for everybody.

The proposed road closures would have tremendous social costs on other communities in the wider locale and also will cause major disruption for residents of Chapelizod and surrounding areas forcing journeys to Blanchardstown, the N3, airport etc. to be by means of the tolled and congested West Link Bridge, Lucan or An Lar.

murphaph

daymobrew wrote:

I think you misunderstand the proposal. As far as I know (still waiting for the plan to be uploaded to dublincity.ie) the proposal is to close, in some form, the road that leads up to Knockmaroon Hill (called Main Street), not the bridge across the river.

No, I get it, that's why I said; "this plan effectively closes Chapelizod Bridge", which it does a good job of doing for D15 commuters.

daymobrew

gobdaw wrote:

Such a relief road for Chapelizod (with improved capacity), could possibly be routed through Glenaulin with a new bridge across the Liffey.

I think that NTR, with the WestLink bridge, have exclusive rights for Liffey crossings between Chapelizod and Lucan, so a new bridge might be prohibited.

murphaph wrote:

No, I get it, that's why I said; "this plan effectively closes Chapelizod Bridge", which it does a good job of doing for D15 commuters.

Fair enough, I must have skipped over effectively.

Dublin City Council wrote:

All written submissions on the Chapelizod Traffic Management Plan 2005 must be addressed to Dublin City Council, Kilmainham Area Office, 639 South Circular Road, Dublin 8. E-mail kilmainham.regoffice@dublincity.ie

Everyone, please submit your concerns to DCC.

jlang

I drive that road several times a week (off peak thank goodness) and have to say it would be a damned nuisance to go any other way. I'd be going through the Park for sure, so they'd better do something about the traffic in Castleknock village while they're at it. As it is, from before Auburn Avenue up to Myo's can take ages even at what should be off peak. Although I suppose Dublin 15 is in Fingal, so DCC probably don't care..

Trampas

If they thought about getting cars in and out of these new apartment blocks before they build them we wouldn't have this problem

OnYerBike

God...

When will we learn? The fact that DCC can even propose this without a viable alternative ( and I say that guardedly as I admit I havent seen the full proposals yet) is yet another example of the misery being imposed on commuters all over dublin, not just D15. I stongly disagree with the post that suggests that its a rat-run, Ive been living in the area for years, and it was always the main route to C'knock and Blanch from the south of the city. It was (just about) able to handle the volumes of traffic until some bright spark councillors granted approval for high density housing in the area (both DCC and Fingal), without provision for adequate transport infrastructure. The motto isnt "Think of the future": its simply "Think of the rates..." We, the people, suffer the consequences.

I despair when I try and understand that part of our being that lets us accept this treatment from our public bodies. Why? If I accepted this level of incompetence from people in my job, I'd be on the dole long ago. Why arent the people who granted permission to all these apartments in the dock now - explaining this mess?

des

daymobrew

I visited the Fingal County Council offices at Blanchardstown Centre this morning and visted the Chapelizod plans.

It shows a dead-end (blocked with concrete bollards) at the bottom of Knockmaroon Hill. The school at the top of the hill will be accessible from Castleknock side only.

Between the dead-end and Chapelizod village there will be a alternating one way system, administered with traffic lights, like when road works take up one side of a road. The chart describing this bit said it was to discourage traffic from using the road. I think the dead-end does that much better.

The plans are still not on DCC's website.

The volume of traffic through Chapelizod was/is probably going to increase because of the large development opposite Castleknock College.

Sleipnir

SO they should close roads instead of turning down the plan for the development?
If the infrastructure won't support a new development then the new development should be blocked. Full-stop.

murphaph

daymobrew wrote:

I visited the Fingal County Council offices at Blanchardstown Centre this morning and visted the Chapelizod plans.

Whereabouts are they on display, is it in the same building as the library daymobrew?

daymobrew wrote:

Between the dead-end and Chapelizod village there will be a alternating one way system, administered with traffic lights, like when road works take up one side of a road. The chart describing this bit said it was to discourage traffic from using the road. I think the dead-end does that much better.

Exactly, it's a stupid 'plan' to begin with as this has always been the main route between Blanch/Castleknock and Ballyfermot and environs and now I hear their going to put additional traffic management (alternating one-way) on a fcuking cul de sac, eh HELLO you DCC muppets, cul de sacs don't need traffic management!

This whole 'plan' reeks. It's clearly aimed at a tiny minority of residents of Chapelizod who, for the most part will have been well aware that the route was always going to be a busy one and will have factored that in when buying in the area. Watch this space to see the newly quiet Chapelizod advertised heavily in any property ads and the consequent increase in prices at the expense of already hard pressed commuters. The amazing thing really is that the phoenix park is literally yards to the north of this road (which by the way is the R109, a numbered regional road-indicative of it's importance in the local context!) and a bypass could easily be constructed with little or no land purchase costs involved-Dundrum got a bypass for a non-national road, why not Chapelizod? The road is not great as it is, so a bypass skirting around the south-western edge of the Phoenix Park would be most welcome. There is already a basic road running roughly parallel to the existing R109 from Chapelizod to the top of Knockmaroon Hill. This road could be widened, straightened and bus lanes added to alow traffic to run round the north of Chapelizod Village to a new gate out of the park, west of the existing gate or at a minumum, to completely rebuild the existing gate and widen it, adding traffic lights and such. Link.

D'Peoples Voice

Sleipnir wrote:

If the infrastructure won't support a new development then the new development should be blocked. Full-stop.

Couldnt agree more, however I'm sure the relevant council will point to some new train station or bus lane in the area as a defence!

I for one, will be supporting DCC to close this road, after all, it doesn't even appear on the DTO's traffic management map, therefore people can't argue that it should be used for commuters from D15 to get to the city, my attitude is, if it's not on the map, it's not a main commuting thoroughfare:D
http://www.dto.ie/fig8.pdf
Should it be on the map, well that's a different story.:rolleyes:

Another advantage for me is that hopefully in the near future my bus won't keep getting caught for ages at the mullingar house because of this major junction.

As long as I'm not inconvenienced by D15 tourists, everything's good!

Borzoi

D'Peoples Voice wrote:

At last, it was getting very difficult to get parking at the newly opened Spar!
This is a great move, because it gives the village back to it's inhabitants,
even if I am a blow-in to the village:)
Anyone who knows how narrow this road is,
will recognise this is a no-brainer, it was being abused as a rat-run!
If only they will put a bus-lane the whole length of the road from Parkgate street to Chapelizod, it'd be fantastic!

Yeah, because the Village is clogged with parked cars from residents in The Island (and other developments) who bought/rent apartments but not enough parking. The solution to this is paid parking - by disc or other means.

As for being a rat-run - it's the old Lucan road FFS.

All this will do is push traffic into the park, a major civic amenity, which will be choked to preserve the good life of the Chapelizodeans.

Absolute nonsense.

daymobrew

murphaph wrote:

Whereabouts are they on display, is it in the same building as the library daymobrew?

Fingal CoCo Blanch offices are behind the Blanch library, between LeisurePlex and An Draiocht. The killer is that the office are only open between 9am and 5pm (maybe even shorter hours). DCC need to put these plans online (still not there at 14:50).

They might be on display in the library foyer, but I'd guess plans for the new hill at Tinkers Hill (intersets Old Lucan Road) are still on display there.

murphaph wrote:

There is already a basic road running roughly parallel to the existing R109 from Chapelizod to the top of Knockmaroon Hill.

Do you mean Upper Glen Road? I would really hate to see more traffic pushed through the Phoenix Park.

And what happens when parts of the Phoenix Park are shut for sporting events e.g. BUPA 10k in April, 4 duathlons during the summer, the Jingle Bells 5k last Sunday. I'd be very disappointed if they were impacted (I like only having to go down the road to participate).

ArthurDent

If they close off this road, what happens the OAPs and other residents on the Strawberry Beds - their postal address is Chapelizod, so penisons are paid from there, their church is there (Ok not a major prob for most I'll admit, but still) and afaik their national school is there.

murphaph

daymobrew wrote:

Fingal CoCo Blanch offices are behind the Blanch library, between LeisurePlex and An Draiocht. The killer is that the office are only open between 9am and 5pm (maybe even shorter hours). DCC need to put these plans online (still not there at 14:50).

Cheers!

daymobrew wrote:

Do you mean Upper Glen Road? I would really hate to see more traffic pushed through the Phoenix Park.

And what happens when parts of the Phoenix Park are shut for sporting events e.g. BUPA 10k in April, 4 duathlons during the summer, the Jingle Bells 5k last Sunday. I'd be very disappointed if they were impacted (I like only having to go down the road to participate).

The Park is massive, let's be honest, there is room to lop a bit off or upgrade that road (Upper & Lower Glen Road) to provide a Chapelizod Bypass. The sporting events could be taken care of, it's not impossible and new trees could be planted to effectively separate the upgraded road from the core of the Park. The existing road down Knockmaroon hill is actually quite dangerous for al users, particularly cyclists and pedestrians.

ondafly

I'm living right in the middle of the old part of Chapelizod. Opposite the Villager pub etc. I'm originally from Castleknock, and as such still have family there. I drive to work every morning at 6am, and my journey takes me along the Canel. When I'm visiting familiy I head the other direction and up Knockmoroon hill. Either way road closure will effect me, and more than likely the value of my property.

A couple of months back, DCC presented to COVA (Chapelizod Old Village Association) six proposals for traffic closure/traffic calming.

3 of the proposals involved road closure at different points on Martins row.

1) Close the road at the top of Knockmaroon hill. This effectively cuts off access to castleknock, blanchardstown etc

2) Close the road half way up St Martin's row, where the small cottages are built. Result the same, but also creating a fairly dodge cul-de-sac for scum to hangout, great of the old residents living there !

3) Close the road where the Post Office is located.

The other proposals, off the top of my head involved.

1) More ramps/chicanes along the road, effectively discouraging use. (Apparently 22 speed ramps are to be built along the strawberry beds road)

2) One Way system with traffic lights etc

3) Staggered use system (is that what you call it ?) allow traffic to travel in 1 direction at a time.


As expected, its a hardcore group of people (I like to call them the Xenophobes )who want the road closed. I understand, it must be very annoying having cars practically sit outside your door every evening, I really do feel sorry for them. But unfortunetly closing the road, effectively pushes the problem elsewhere, without solving it.

I'm not sure who gave the go-ahead, but whom ever allowed the building of apartments opposite Castleknock College, and on Castleknock College's old rugby grounds, really was short sighted. The traffic is so bad in that area, that cars are parking at night in different housing estates, to avoid the tailbackers from carpenterstown in the morning. These same cars use St Martins row to get into town, thus they avoid the traffic chaos of castleknock and the navan road.

The problem with parking in the old "square" was down to greedy-ness of the Apartment builders of the Island & Weir developments. You would not believe the size of the carparks that were built for these complexes. But the spaces cost 20K each, so plenty of first time buyers have chosen to "abandon" their cars on the road outside Spar, instead of coughing up.

So thats a little backstory. If the road is closed at the post office (which seems the most popular at the moment). I will have no choice but to drive up to Castleknock to get into town. If I ever need to get to Liffey Valley, Clondalkin, Tallaght etc, I will need to head backwards to the M50 (and pay the toll) Its a no brainer as far as I'm concerned, and alot of my neighbours too believe, Road closure will kill the village completely.

Finally, another point mentioned at the COVA meeting, was the idea of bringing disk parking. Its worth mentioning though, DCC will not provide annual disks to apartment owners. Who knows where they would park their cars !

murphaph

ondafly wrote:

So thats a little backstory. If the road is closed at the post office (which seems the most popular at the moment). I will have no choice but to drive up to Castleknock to get into town.

Cheers for the insider info, it's an eye-opener but surely you'd take a bus to town (or cycle) from where you live? It seems crazy to drive to town from there regardless of the road closure, no?

ondafly

I take 2 passengers with me each morning, we'd need to take 2 buses to get to work, plus there isn't any buses at the time when we leave for work. The cost of running the car, with the extra passengers, easily outweighs the cost of public transport or taxis.

As for cycling, it would be a long trip, and not something I'd be into. Having said all that, downside of apartment living - bicycle ranks get robbed from quite alot. My own bike included.:mad:

daymobrew

http://www.dublincity.ie/press_news/news/chapelizod_traffic_management_plan.asp
The plans and diagrams are now online.
The Draft Chapelizod Traffic Management Report (13Mb) makes for interesting reading.
For example:

• OPW will oppose anything that will push extra traffic into the Phoenix Park.
• For 47% of through traffic, the Chapelizod route is the only route they can use. For 30% the destination is Chapelizod. So, 77% have a legimitate reason for using the village route!
• Road closure is preferred option of report authors, followed by Shuttle Signals (single lane with signals at either end) and then one-way at Knockmaroon Hill.

The report mentions vehicle speed as a concern. Elsewhere is says that the current speed ramps keep speeds down. Which is it?

TempestSabre

Why not close down Chapelizod, the Park and the Navan Road. End of problem. Build apartments on the roads. As long as everyone gets their kickbacks and brown envelopes there'll be no problem. You could do the same with the M50. Build high rises on that too. Stop the muppets complaining about the traffic and that toll bridge.



The planning is a joke. However getting people to get off there a***s and complain about it is impossible. Everyones too busy building their credit bubble.

Borzoi

daymobrew wrote:

The report mentions vehicle speed as a concern. Elsewhere is says that the current speed ramps keep speeds down. Which is it?

It mentions 'some ramps' on martins row - AFAIK there's seven. I mean how hard would it have been to count them.

One of the objects of the report is to reduce traffic though the village - they then acknowledge that it would be too difficult to interfere with the QBC, so hence they have to curtail traffic on Knockmaroon hill.

The traffic survey was done on a snowy day in February 05, so very few walerkers and cyclists, and before some of the major developemts in the village were complete

To be honest that entire report is a joke.

gobdaw

daymobrew wrote:

http://www.dublincity.ie/press_news/news/chapelizod_traffic_management_plan.asp
The plans and diagrams are now online.
The Draft Chapelizod Traffic Management Report (13Mb) makes for interesting reading.
For example:

• OPW will oppose anything that will push extra traffic into the Phoenix Park.
• For 47% of through traffic, the Chapelizod route is the only route they can use. For 30% the destination is Chapelizod. So, 77% have a legimitate reason for using the village route!
• Road closure is preferred option of report authors, followed by Shuttle Signals (single lane with signals at either end) and then one-way at Knockmaroon Hill.

The report mentions vehicle speed as a concern. Elsewhere is says that the current speed ramps keep speeds down. Which is it?

Thanks for your part in getting these out into the open. They were not available at the desplay in Civic Offices, I wonder why?

It seems the only purpose of the report was to eliminate all traffic.
30% of all traffic began or ended in Chapelizod and for 47% it is the only or most direct route available. What happens to these?
23% could have gone by another route - half of them by the M50. Thats right, this report sees a solution in sending MORE traffic on that linear car part, and get them to pay for the privilege.

The report confirms no queueing of vehicles during evening peak, and few vehicles after 18:00. There is a queue at morning peak (08:00-09:00). The obvious option - bypass - is dismissed with the comment "Significent cost and difficulty determining start and end of bypass" And that is why consultants are engaged to produce such reports at great expense. Thanks. A bypass is the only equitable option here, for everybody, not closing off a regional road unilaterally.

Archeron

if this is allowed to happen, it will be a complete disaster. Surely this is the only country in the world where they could contemplate closing a busy road where "77%" of people have no other option but to drive that way, without actually building a bypass so people can go another way. "cost prohibitive" is not an excuse, and we should not accept this. Yet another potential nightmare put on commuters by a bunch of overpaid "consultants" who obviously have a thing against car drivers. Its funny, as car ownership in this country reaches all time highs, we have less and less routes to travel on. How does this make sense?

TempestSabre

gobdaw wrote:

...The report confirms no queueing of vehicles during evening peak, and few vehicles after 18:00. There is a queue at morning peak (08:00-09:00)...

ah I thought they were talking about the Chapelizod in D.15. This must another one. Because the one in D.15 is a disaster between 7-9.30 and 5-6.30. Granted I only go through it once or twice a week if I'm early enough, maybe its clearer on the days I don't go through it.

Victor

gobdaw wrote:

Thanks for your part in getting these out into the open. They were not available at the desplay in Civic Offices, I wonder why?

For those that cxouldn't find it, the display is next to the stairs na tthe planning public desk. It appears not all the documents are on display.

gobdaw wrote:

The report confirms no queueing of vehicles during evening peak, and few vehicles after 18:00. There is a queue at morning peak (08:00-09:00). The obvious option - bypass - is dismissed with the comment "Significent cost and difficulty determining start and end of bypass" And that is why consultants are engaged to produce such reports at great expense. Thanks.

This is a traffic measure, not a roads measure.

gobdaw wrote:

A bypass is the only equitable option here, for everybody, not closing off a regional road unilaterally.

Chapelizod already has a bypass. It's just being used as a rat run to either bypass the toll or use Chapelizod Road to get into town.

The real solution is to provide adequate rail links to Blanchardstown.

TempestSabre

Victor wrote:

...

Chapelizod already has a bypass. It's just being used as a rat run to either bypass the toll or use Chapelizod Road to get into town.

The real solution is to provide adequate rail links to Blanchardstown.

Both very true. The current rail service I saw referred to as the Deli express. (because of the overcrowding). Personally I reckon thats and understatement.

I love the idea of using the train and used it in the past, most recently on and off for most of 2004. But its a miserable journey at peak. It also take about 30 mins longer than driving and standing freezing on uncovered platforms, then sweating on the train, is not good for avoided serious colds and flus.

daymobrew

TempestSabre wrote:

Both very true. The current rail service I saw referred to as the Deli express. (because of the overcrowding). Personally I reckon thats and understatement.

I love the idea of using the train and used it in the past, most recently on and off for most of 2004. But its a miserable journey at peak. It also take about 30 mins longer than driving and standing freezing on uncovered platforms, then sweating on the train, is not good for avoided serious colds and flus.

The 3 new trains in the morning have improved things a great deal.
I work at home for an hour in the morning (8-9am) before getting the 9:20 train from Coolmine.
I don't understand how it takes 30 mins longer than driving. What stations were you travelling between? How long does driving take? At what time?
Layers - wrap up for your walk to the station and remove a few when you get on the train.

TempestSabre

9.20 so your avoiding peak too?

Coolmine and Grand Canal.

No walking to and from stations. No waiting for trains. No making a change. I don't mind walking, I usually come home and go for a walk. But thats mainly how I save time. I find its often 5 mins early or 10 mins late and cam miss its slot into connelly. So the train ends up waiting 5-10mins for a slot. because its not on time, means you have to be there 10mins early and if its late 5 or 10 mins you add 15-20mins to your journey. Comming home the train especially the one around 6 is very often late, often by as much as 30mins.

In an over crowded carraige the heat is so bad I'd have to go to my boxers, and there isn't usually room to reach my pocket for my muzic nevermind take off a jacket and a fleece. I've seen quite a few people pass out from the heat over the years.

gobdaw

victor wrote:

gobdaw wrote:

A bypass is the only equitable option here, for everybody, not closing off a regional road unilaterally.

Chapelizod already has a bypass. It's just being used as a rat run to either bypass the toll or use Chapelizod Road to get into town.

The real solution is to provide adequate rail links to Blanchardstown.

Victor, you’re viewing this as a “rat run” to get into town. Its not, it’s the regional road linking D15 etc with D8 and D12. There are no proposals to connect these with rail links. If such rail or other links existed then these proposals would not have the same catastrophic potential. The report accepts that for 47% of users it represents the only or most direct route and a further 30% start or finish in Chapelizod. That’s 77% of all journeys that are not “rat runs” by any rational interpretation. In any event, using a regional road (R109), as the remaining 23% do, would not be considered a rat run in any other county but rather its use would be encouraged!

Phoenix Park and the Liffey have created a pinch point for road development in this area. Chapelizod sits on a crossroad in that pinch point, with one of the few bridges across the river. The existing Chapelizod Bypass deals with traffic movement east/west (Lucan, Leixlip etc.) and is an integral part of the M4/N4 corridor. Incidentally, it seems to be at or near capacity. There is no bypass for the 47% North/South movements, and it is such a bypass for the 47-77% North/South journeys that I am airing. Banning them or suggesting they go E/W rather than N/S is no solution. Looking at a map in the Street Guide will make all this much clearer.

And I’m not even addressing the suggestions of more cars choking up the West Link Toll Bridge.

Chapo

Chapelizod is a village, possibly pre-dating Dublin City. Perhaps if writers to the forum understood its long history of development, abuse and dereliction they might understand why the residents here are determined that rat-running traffic, usually by-passing the toll on the M50, aren't allowed ruin our enjoyment of our built heritage and family homes.
Just today as I waited for the traffic lights at the Newsagents to turn green (a ridiculous 4 minutes - DCC please take note) an inconsiderate car driver stopped in traffic - straddling the actual crossing. Even if the other lane was clear I couldn't cross. Obviously, the village is an unwanted traffic jam for this traffic; but we don't want the noise or fume pollution of these vehicles either.
Please check out the COVA Chapelizod website which may give you a better understanding of our problems and challenges. Then, rail if you must.
https://sites.google.com/site/covachapelizod/

Trampas

In before the lock.

5 year old thread well done buddy

Chapo

Five years on and traffic is still a problem? Yes it is and DCC's 2011-2017 City Development plan has little remedial action for the problems. So what's another decade?
However, a new pedestrian cantilever bridge nearing completion (late January 2011) will provide safe crossing of the Liffey for our school children and senior citizens. Cyclists will also benefit from segregation from other vehicles at the narrow Anna Livia Bridge. A joint project by DCC and QBC the resident's association COVA welcomes this solution to a century old problem. We still argue that a tunnel under the Park bypassing our village should be a consideration.
So just because the initial issue waves in this thread have dissipated doesn't mean that we're all happy campers in Chapelizod - just a little overwhelmened sometimes by agro from our frustrated neighbours. See our Tidy Town website where our pride in our village is evident.
https://sites.google.com/site/chapelizodtidytowns/

Corruptedmorals

Perhaps a new thread would have been in order? Any maybe they should look at not having EVERY single 66, 66a, 66b, 67 and possibly 25 and some X's go through chaplizod while the privileged 25a and b use the bypass..even better with all these bridge works going on.

CIE

Corruptedmorals wrote: »

Perhaps a new thread would have been in order?

If so, can the mods split the new posts from the old thread and create a read-only archive for threads going back as far as these...? Remember, search engines don't usually go by date; they go by keywords.

Chapo

Don't know about splitting the thread - the richness of the discussion is in the emotions expressed by writers five years ago and still current today. This is in spite of a full year of public debate on the Draft Development Plan. COVA submitted a 78 page discussion document on the City's future development and the result was a vague reference to traffic control on Martin's Row.
The situation on improved bus access is bizarre. The bus turns right at Islandbridge then left onto Con Colbert Road to Heuston Station and back onto the Quays. COVA has been told that this is to facilitate access to the train - which seems silly since the original route passed only a two minute walk from the station anyway.
A new busgate will come into operation in Feb-March on the Old Lucan Road to add more misery to non-public-service drivers. This will see a dedicated bus lane from Kylemore Road to Riverview Court. Bus traffic should move more quickly as the result of this new arrangement. The bus corridor at Donore Harriers will be extended back towards the City; so expect further delays even turning into the Park from the Dublin Road at St. Mary’s Gate.

BostonB

Chapo wrote: »

Five years on and traffic is still a problem? Yes it is and DCC's 2011-2017 City Development plan has little remedial action for the problems. So what's another decade?...[/URL]

Traffic was always bad in Chapelizod. I've been using it since the early 80's. I've been avoiding it for that long too. Its bad because its one of the main traffic routes into town. Most of the people living in it now, moved into, with full knowledge of the problem.

Tbh its been busy for hundreds of years...
http://www.chaptersofdublin.com/books/ball1-6/Ball4/ball4.16.htm

Its a nice village though, has improved immensely in recent years.

Cheaper than a tunnel, they could simply build a ring road around part of the park and move the boundary of the park in 100m. It would remove traffic from the park, and the village. A tunnel, has the problem that theres already a rail tunnel in the park. Also Castleknock is a bottle neck. You'd you'd have traffic jams in the tunnel.

Encourage trains, and cycling in the areas putting pressure on Chapelizod. Its only about 20~30mins to city center on a bike from Chapelizod.

Chapo

Ball's book is a great insight to life in Chapelizod in the past; so also is LeFanu. The COVA website has links to three of his ghost stories, set in and around Chapelizod. The introduction to the stories by LeFanu set the scene for these stories but captures the village ambience beautifully. Interestingly, the stories are set 100 years prior to his story telling.
Chapelizod was the birthplace of the Royal Irish Artillery regiment, but it's difficult to imagine over 400 troops, their horses and guns stationed around the village in the late 1700's. The traffic and dust in the summer must have been woeful. The Brass Castle, now gone, was near the foot of Knockmaroon Hill and was the officer's headquarters. Exercises and parades were conducted in the Phoenix Park so this type of traffic was regularly trotting through the village. All this detail is set out in the Adsiltia journal, produced by Chapelizod Heritage Society and sold locally. My main point is that in spite of hundreds of years of experience of traffic the authorities still haven't been able to give us the peaceful comfort of village life. And the traffic situation will get worse in 2011!

BostonB

Villages occur where they are usually because its where there was a lot of throughput historically. Often due to constraints of the physical landscape. Beside a river, at a bridge, at the foot of a hill and at Y in the road. Chapelizod ticks all the boxes. Its very hard to bypass it easily.

-Chris-

Trampas wrote: »

In before the lock.

5 year old thread well done buddy

And yet I haven't received a single reported post about this thread....

Please report posts/threads if you have an issue rather than just IBTLing.

Chapo

Excellent points. A road traffic study by O'Neill Associates of vehicles using Martin's Row and crossing the bridge showed 64% of traffic flow was north to south in the mornings. That is using Chapelizod to cross the river rather than the using the M50/Strawberry Beds Bridge. It is understandable that travellers will try to reduce their driving costs; by two tolls a day if they use Anna Livia Bridge in Chapelizod. Traffic flow in the village lessened somewhat when the toll bridge became barrier free; probably the cost of zooming across that bridge outweighed the stress of queuing through our village. The Tiger's Funeral Costs is now digging into our finances and traffic density in the village has increased again. COVA asked the government to allow traffic a 'toll free' month on the M50 bridge to assess the impact on Chapelizod traffic. This interesting experiment hasn't been agreed to. But Chapelizod Village? We are where we are!!

-Chris-

Chapo, can I ask what exactly your proposals/solutions are, or are you just venting frustration?