PRIME TIME - Anti-social beahviour

johnnyrotten

Just saw the prime time programme on anti-social behaviour.
Whats the answer to these Scumbags?

johnnyrotten

Is it any wonder people end up taking the law into their own hands

Enii

Government needs to take a no-tolerance view as did Mayor Giuliani when he cleaned up New York City. NY is a city of 8 million while the whole of Irel is 5 million. A massive prison should be built and they should be all locked up. The gardai need to enforce the existing legislation and arrest these hooligans and the councils need to enforce their laws and evict families that cause trouble.

Sajan

I'm sorry.. But is this topic for real? Build a huge jail and throw them all in it? Am I missing the Joke?

johnnyrotten

The gardai are too scared to enter some of these estates.
Extra Recruitment is needed now!

Sajan

Maybe if the Gardai were trained in some social education. Maybe if they learned the background of criminal behaviour.. That all behaviour is a result of need.

SprostonGreen

Vigilantes, give them a taste of their own medicine.

johnnyrotten

Sajan wrote:

Maybe if the Gardai were trained in some social education. Maybe if they learned the background of criminal behaviour.. That all behaviour is a result of need.

The only thing some of those SCUMBAGS need is a Nice taste of their own medicine!
I'm sick of hearing the " Nothing to do, No facilities BULLSH!T"
There's no excuse for someone to vandalise a house or Beat someone up:mad:

aidan_walsh

johnnyrotten wrote:

The only thing some of those SCUMBAGS need is a Nice taste of their own medicine!
I'm sick of hearing the " Nothing to do, No facilities BULLSH!T"
There's no excuse for someone to vandalise a house or Beat someone up:mad:

Give them a nice safe Hogans Alley to vandalise?

Sajan

Its fine for you to say that you are sick of the arguement of no facilities and nothing to do.. Cause you have facilities. And you have things to do. Statistics dont lie. Low Socio-economic area = Low quality of life and low life chances.. Its as simple as that. Those kids on that show tonight did not lick that behaviour off the ground. It was bred into them. Its a social norm for these kids. Simple as that.

johnnyrotten

Sajan wrote:

Its fine for you to say that you are sick of the arguement of no facilities and nothing to do.. Cause you have facilities. And you have things to do. Statistics dont lie. Low Socio-economic area = Low quality of life and low life chances.. Its as simple as that. Those kids on that show tonight did not lick that behaviour off the ground. It was bred into them. Its a social norm for these kids. Simple as that.

I had no facilities growing up. I did'nt terrorise my community.
I agree that this behaviour is bred into these kids simply because their parents are SCUM.

I'am sure that other kids living in the same estates with an equal lack of facilities or things to do , behave in a good way and respect their neighbours

There are too many "do-gooders" in this country waiting to defend the Scumbags!

Sajan

Does anyone know if Prime Time gets repeated?

johnnyrotten

Don't think its repeated but this one should be.

Does anyone think ASBO's (Anti-Social Behavioural Orders) should be introduced here

Sajan

Johnny.. I understand where you are coming for with your thoughts that this behaviour should not be condoned.. And its not. But you have to unerstand where this situation has derived from in Ireland. Coming from generations of poverty causes a lot of pain.. And pain makes people want a release. And they will find that release in any way. A lot of people in the 70's turned to drink and Drugs. Which. We as a generation now are dealing with. I wish it was as simple as as you say. Parents being Scum... Children are scum.. Lock them all up. But unfortunately its not. There are major problems in the Irish Social Services.. And its up to us.. The people with the knowledge and power to do something about it.

I know that sounds so left wing and "Do-gooder"(ish) as you say. But I believe it is the only way.

^CwAzY^

I like the giant prison idea, or a big fire maybe..

Sajan

And Johnny.. In relation to your question about the ASBO's. I beleive that they shouldn't. I believe that this is another totally knee jerk reaction to the problems and is a failure on the governments behalf to deal with the more pressing issues.

What does everyone else think?

johnnyrotten

Sajan,

I never mentioned the prison. I think the answer in these areas is a curfew with a hell of a lot more Gardai around to police it. Also a zero tolerance approach might help.
The Lawa are a joke in this country too. with the revolving door syndrome , you can see why Gardai get dis-illusioned with arresting the perpetrators

flogen

Sajan wrote:

Does anyone know if Prime Time gets repeated?

you can stream the episodes here, the latest one isn't up yet, but it should be by tomorrow.

Sajan

Johnny.. The Judicial system in this country is a disgrace aswell.. There is some amazing research out there about the prison systems.. 50% of all prisoners being homeless at one time etc. It just shows how deep the countries problems are.

johnnyrotten

Sajan wrote:

Johnny.. The Judicial system in this country is a disgrace aswell.. There is some amazing research out there about the prison systems.. 50% of all prisoners being homeless at one time etc. It just shows how deep the countries problems are.

Agreed!:(

Dr. Dre

Nice to see Dundalk get prime slot
When I heard the subject matter I just KNEW the town would have to feature, it's like a benchmark.

TheBigLebowski

Why do people always try and make excuses for the scum in society. No facilities blah blah blah...
Why is it that in a community of 200 houses (all with the same facilities at hand), that there will be a minority of families causing the problems.
The Garda need to be more of a presence in these areas and the local council need to be more active in evicting offenders. Maybe if the scum are afraid of losing the hole they call home, they might think twice about what they are doing and take control of their offspring.

masterK

The one thing that got me was that even when the mothers of the kids that were causing some of the trouble were shown their kids on video they still tried to make out it wasn't there fault. One women start saying that it's up to the neighbour to come and talk to them each time and the other was saying that she couldn't believe her son was doing this.

It's most definitely the parents of these kids that should be dealt with, they refuse to believe that their kids could be causing problems and even when confronted with the evidence they still try to pass the blame. Is it any wonder the kids turn out like they do.

I've often seen groups 14 or 15 year old kids walking around the streets at 1-2 AM, you have to ask yourselves how come there parents don't know where they are? Answer: Because they couldn't care less.

Pigman II

johnnyrotten wrote:

Just saw the prime time programme on anti-social behaviour.
Whats the answer to these Scumbags?

Well I quite like KeelinShanley but yeah I agree MiriamOCallaghan and MarkLittle shouldn't be allowed on tv.

swingking

Did anyone notice how every single time they showed a little scumbag involved in anti-social behaviour, they blanked their faces out. If they showed who these scumbags were then maybe the parents might actually believe what their kids are up to.

Take for instance the mother in Coolock " My little Johnny doesn't do anything like that, blah blah blah.......," and then when she sees the footage she actually says she will take action.

I don't understand why these people suddenly have to be protected, unblank their faces and maybe someone will kick the s**t out of these idiots. Teach them a lesson.

Cabaal

swingking wrote:

Did anyone notice how every single time they showed a little scumbag involved in anti-social behaviour, they blanked their faces out. If they showed who these scumbags were then maybe the parents might actually believe what their kids are up to.

Yeah thats great and all if RTE want to end up in court, since the kids/their parents did not sign anything saying they could be showen on TV then RTE can't show them simple as that.

I understand your logic and I'd agree but it can't be done.

eirebhoy

johnnyrotten wrote:

I agree that this behaviour is bred into these kids simply because their parents are SCUM.

That's a silly thing to say. 80% of the kids in my area would be involved in some anti-social behaviour (me included when I was barely in my teens). I'm well past that now but I would have been arrested 10-15 times between the ages of 12-16. Back then my mother would have been regarded as posh by my friends because she "doesn't talk loike tha!" and she would have been very strict on me. My father too. Still didn't stop me being a tosser. Its all to do with the area the kids are living in. There's nothing parents can do about it but keep them locked in the house.

A friend of my family (Laura Payne) was on Prime Time last week talking about her son who's addicted to heroin and currently in prison. Her sons a scumbag but she and her husband are far from it.

MrJoeSoap

^ I'm with Eirebhoy on this one. I know many "posh" familys where the children are just as bad, if not worse than, many of the familys where the parents would be considered "Scum" (your words, not mine).

Grimlock

eirebhoy I think the program last nite implied that one or 2 families in an area, any area not just council estates, where bringing the place down and dragging otherwise quieter kids down with them.

But you have to admit that the holier than thou, "not my little johnny, he'd never do that" head in the sand approach taken by some parents is very frustrating.

TheBigLebowski

eirebhoy wrote:

That's a silly thing to say. 80% of the kids in my area would be involved in some anti-social behaviour (me included when I was barely in my teens). I'm well past that now but I would have been arrested 10-15 times between the ages of 12-16. Back then my mother would have been regarded as posh by my friends because she "doesn't talk loike tha!" and she would have been very strict on me. My father too. Still didn't stop me being a tosser. Its all to do with the area the kids are living in. There's nothing parents can do about it but keep them locked in the house.

Just because a parent has a 'posh' accent, doesn't mean they are not scum and are not bad parents. It's not about the accent you use when speaking to your child but the values you breed into them. I'm not saying your parents are scum, as I don't know them, but you are implying that an accent has something to do with the behaviour of a child which is way off the mark.

gazzer

The parents definately have some role to play in this.. I grew up in a corpo flats complex until i was 20.. my father ran two football teams for the area.. an under 16's and an under 12's.. he done this for almost 8 years and in all that time only 2 other parents of the kids helped out.. the rest didnt seem to care.. didnt come to any of the matches... they just seemed to be glad that their kids were out of their hair for a while.

there would be loads of parents in the area that would be out on Friday/saturday and sunday nights in the pub.. coming home at all hours whilst the eldest child in the family would look after the rest of the kids... funilly enough out of all the kids i grew up with in that area.. the ones that played football on my dads teams are all working/married and are doing well for themselves.. a lot of the other kids who didnt want to play soccer cos they were too busy joyriding or robbing houses are now (for the most part) junkies and in out out of mountjoy..

eirebhoy

TheBigLebowski wrote:

Just because a parent has a 'posh' accent, doesn't mean they are not scum and are not bad parents. It's not about the accent you use when speaking to your child but the values you breed into them. I'm not saying your parents are scum, as I don't know them, but you are implying that an accent has something to do with the behaviour of a child which is way off the mark.

She's an ex-nun. Enough said. She voluntarily thought kids knitting after school for years. Went back to college 7 years ago to become a nurse as all the kids were grown up and got the highest grades in her year in each of the 3 years. She's the type of person other mothers in the area would ask for help in certain situations. None of that probably proves she's not scum but just take my word for it, she's anything but.

Maybe I'm in the minority but my parents had nothing to do with some of their kids being little f**ks. Ironically, my eldest sister works as a psychologist in a reformatory school.

Flukey

Saying there are "no facilities" etc. is not to defend these kids. There is no excuse for their behaviour, but nevertheless those are factors. We arrest them and lock them up and all that, but that won't solve the problem. To treat any kind of problem, you have to go to the causes. It isn't pure coincidence that we get a lot more of this in deprived areas. It is a factor, not an excuse, but it is a factor.

There are obvious reasons why they didn't do it but, apart from the guy in the blue football shirt who himself became a victim, they didn't at any stage talk to any of these kids and get their opinions and find out why they behave this way. To solve this, that is where you have to start.

The revolving door in prisons isn't really the problem as such. The real problem is that when prisoners come out again, they are being released back into the same community with the same influences on them and problems that brought them into crime in the first place. Some may come out with good intentions, but as nothing has changed back where they come from they soon get caught up in it all again.

So while they are in prison being rehabilitated, the problems in their community should also be addressed, the problems at the root of it all that is. If some of those prisoners returned to a completely different environment on release that would be a major impact on their chances of re-offending.

Some of you might remember a Prime Time Investigates programme on youth offenders a year or two ago. You had the same problems on that. One figure given was that it cost something like €750,000 to deal with some of these offenders in a year. If that same money had been put into their communities a few years earlier a lot of the problems could have been avoided. Some of you might say it is a waste of money spending that on a community or on those kind of people. Look at it this way, if that one €750,000 investment a few years ago, could save multiples of that dealing with the individuals now, it is well worth it. On top of that expense now, is the cost of the problems they cause. Your increase in insurance premiums, repairs, injuries etc. etc., not to mention the general inconvenience, suffering and heartache could all be avoided.

Ok, if you find your car has been burnt out, I am sure you'll feel that the perpatrators don't deserve any money being spent on them. Of course, if the difference is that your car may not have been burnt out in the first place if that money was spent on them a few years back, then you'll see it would have been well worth it. So spending money on those communities now would actually save a lot of money and avoid a lot of problems in the future. The do-gooders will achieve a lot more than the do-nothings will.

decob

TheBigLebowski wrote:

Why do people always try and make excuses for the scum in society. No facilities blah blah blah...

So true, don't know if anyone noticed, but there was a clip of kids on one estate burning their playground equipment.

TheBigLebowski

I think that 'deprived communities' are a symptom rather than a cause. That is to say these scum were scum before they moved into the area. I'm not saying all people living in these communities are scum. They aren't.
There are plenty of villages and towns all over Ireland with less facilities than Tallaght, Clondalkin, Mulhuddart etc... that don't descend into the ****holes that some parts of the aforementioned areas become. What facilities do you need? If you are not scum, you will occupy yourself with doing things like playing football in a field (like I spent many a day doing) or something else that non-scum young people do.

OFDM

Cabaal wrote:

Yeah thats great and all if RTE want to end up in court, since the kids/their parents did not sign anything saying they could be showen on TV then RTE can't show them simple as that.

I've never understood why it's perfectly acceptable to show someone being chased by a journalist and a camera going into their own homes (eg Roy Keane) or into court but a scumbag belting the shíte out of a car needs to sign a release form

Another way of looking at it: if the footage was part of a news report their faces wouldn't be blanked out, so why the need to blank them out in a documentary?

Sajan

The reason why a lot of parents arent good parents is because they had bad parents aswell. They were never shown love. This is a generation thing.. See whtat I mean? Its passed down from Generation to generation.

The Saint

I think one idea might be to make the parents pay for the damage that their children do. That would certainly give parents second thoughts about letting their children roam the streets at stupid hours of the night. For kids that do offend they should be put under curfews and electronically tagged to ensure that the curfews are adided by. If a child commits three offences then they could be sent to a juvinile detention centre for a period of time.

There are societal issues to deal with also. Bad parenting and low socio-economic status for example. But to state that lack of resources is a cause of this is hard to believe. Many if not most communities in this country don't have community centres, sports facilities, etc. and don't have these issues. I think parents should be scrutinised more and bad parenting should be punished in some way.

Tusky

There are PLENTY of people living lives with no opportunities, low standards of life and no facilities that dont go around causing havok. It is NOT an excuse. Obviously, the point that low standards of life breeds crime is a valid one. I, personally, think its more to do with the parents. If you are raised by scumbags, you will most likely be a scumbag, regardless of your opportunities or standards of life. There are scumbags everywhere raising their own children to be scum with no morals or respect, it just so happens that the vast majority of these happen to live in disadvantaged areas. The problem is not to do with facilities, its with the parents and how the children are raised/family life.

I refuse to accept that there is nothing to do for these people in these areas. I spent five years of my life living in a ****ty area, I got into art, played alot of football and didnt get involved with any crime. This was down to my parents invlence. Not the fact that there was no facilities in the area.

The Saint

Maybe the parents of these children should be sent to compulsory parenting classes.

Tusky

The Saint wrote:

Maybe the parents of these children should be sent to compulsory parenting classes.

Maybe you should have to apply for a licence to have children ? So that you can prove that you are suitable to be a parent and that you arent just going to bring another ignorant racist criminal into the world ? Sure, its a radical view but im just playing devils advocate.

It pains me when you see a girl in her early 20s walking down the road with five kids she obviously cant support.

eirebhoy

I'm still not with this blaming the parents thing. Obviously if the parents are scum there's a better chance of the kids being scum but I think its down to the area they live and the school they go more than anything. Actually, I know its mainly down to the area they live and people are wrong if they think otherwise. I grew up in a ****hole and still live in that ****hole (albeit a different place then it was then).

There's a family down the road in which the father spent a lot of his life in prison and afaik the mother would have done a few months here and there too. One of the kids followed them down that path (the eldest), but the other 4 are more mature than most kids around. I could give a few examples like that. There's also a man that lived across the road from me who hanged himself because his son got so bad (stealing anything and everything and addicted to drugs). You couldn't meet much nicer people than him and his wife. The wife and the son (he'd be in his late 20's now) are currently living in Wexford and he seems to have his life sorted.

I could go on but please stop blaming the parents as its an insult to people like my parents who spent thousands sending my sisters to private schools trying to get them down the right path. As I said, a lot of the time the parents are to blame but usually not imo.

The information I'm giving on here I'd be suprised if someone hasn't copped who I am yet.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

bertie?

johnnyrotten

The Saint wrote:

Maybe the parents of these children should be sent to compulsory parenting classes.

Maybe the children should be sent to compulsory parenting classes :rolleyes:

Flukey

It is all very easy to blame the parents. Sometimes it is correct, but with a lot of these kids, not even their parents can control them. Many pay no more respect or heed to their parents than they do to the people they terrorise. Often the parents themselves are terrorised by these kids. They have no respect for anyone or anything, so their parents telling them to sit down there like a good child and don't be annoying the neighbours, is not always going to work. Lots of very good and very nice parents have little horrors of children, despite their best efforts. Others of course behave like angels when they are at home and their parents know nothing of what they get up to and wouldn't believe it if they were told. So when they say "My little darling wouldn't do that" they sometimes believe it and not actually covering for them. A lot of these kids are completely to blame themselves. There are lots of factors, no single cause. We've touched on many of them in this thread and there are a few others too, like illness and behaviourial disorders, amongst others.

Cabaal

Flukey wrote:

It is all very easy to blame the parents. Sometimes it is correct, but with a lot of these kids, not even their parents can control them.

Interesting but if the parents were able to control their kids properly when they were 4. 5. 6 and 7 years of age then their kids wouldn't be taking the piss when they hit their teens.

Alot of the problem is down to parents not properly looking after their kids and at this stage I firmly believe every parent to be should have to go to classes before they have kids, its not only a good thing for the kid but it might help people prepare for having a kid and whats going to come,

gazzer

I heard on a woman on the radio yesterday talking about the programme and what she said was right.. you need a licence to have a dog.. if that dog bites somebody or is terrorising people in the area it can be put down or taking away from the owner and put in the pound... however ANYONE can have a child and treat them like crap or not care for them properly

Cabaal

gazzer wrote:

I heard on a woman on the radio yesterday talking about the programme and what she said was right.. you need a licence to have a dog.. if that dog bites somebody or is terrorising people in the area it can be put down or taking away from the owner and put in the pound... however ANYONE can have a child and treat them like crap or not care for them properly

Exactly, its nuts when you think about it that somebody can bring a life into this world with no previous experience what so ever and their just left to go it alone
some people are not even able to look after themselfs and yet they have kids,

egan007

johnnyrotten wrote:

Just saw the prime time programme on anti-social behaviour.
Whats the answer to these Scumbags?

These scumbags i.e. our children and the future need to be listened to.

We as the adults, with the votes and the say in everything, need to find out what is causing such a widespread rebellion against authority.

Ask them, then deliver a solution that will instill purity and pride in our youth rather than criminalising them.

It beats me why anyone would think putting a law on someone who has no respect for the current laws ill work. The Gov just want to be seeing to do something - they know if will make fuc all difference.

TheBigLebowski

egan007 wrote:

These scumbags i.e. our children and the future need to be listened to.

We as the adults, with the votes and the say in everything, need to find out what is causing such a widespread rebellion against authority.

Ask them, then deliver a solution that will instill purity and pride in our youth rather than criminalising them.

It beats me why anyone would think putting a law on someone who has no respect for the current laws ill work. The Gov just want to be seeing to do something - they know if will make fuc all difference.

The scum are not just the children. The program was about ASBO's and, of what I seen of the program, it was the parents as much as the kids who'll be getting the ASBO's. Should be getting evicted too, the scum. They have no respect for the law because it's not really affecting them. They know they probably won't go to jail if little Johnny smashes the oul wans windows across the road.If they think they're gonna lose the house, they'll do something about it.

Tusky

Cabaal wrote:

Interesting but if the parents were able to control their kids properly when they were 4. 5. 6 and 7 years of age then their kids wouldn't be taking the piss when they hit their teens.

Alot of the problem is down to parents not properly looking after their kids and at this stage I firmly believe every parent to be should have to go to classes before they have kids, its not only a good thing for the kid but it might help people prepare for having a kid and whats going to come,

exactly. The first few years of a childs life are when it learns most, more than it will ever learn again in its life. It learns to walk, talk, eat & how to behave. OF COURSE the parents are to blame. Children dont turn into little criminals by themselves. If you have a child of 8 who is already showing signs of being a little terror, you have done something wrong in your parenting. If he is picking it up off other kids, he/she shouldnt be allowed hang around with them.