ClearWire & Bittorrent

boardmember

Hi Folks,

I have no bittorent with ClearWire... I called them and they have assured me all ports are open including 6881 which is Bittorrent... They are telling me that filesharing floods their network but that should not explaing why I am getting 0.1kb download speeds.. I am not using any firewall software... What's the story?? Anyone else notice this.

DemonOfTheFall

You're gonna be banned for that... better remove the bit saying what u want to DL.

EDIT: Better also read one of the hundreds of guides on the internet for setting up bittorrent.

boardmember

Oops..and by the way I know how to setup BT.

Hoodle

I was told by Clearwire's Tech Support that P2P usage was being throttled. Hence why you're getting ridiculous DL speeds.

DemonOfTheFall

Have you forwarded the ports on your modem so that incoming connections are getting through? If you're using azurues, are you getting smiley green faces?

[V3]

When I had Clearwire I had the same problem. I think they just block the ports. I wasnt even using port 6881 and it was still blocked.

Opiate8

Using Azureus and have green lights all the way, random ports (checked with Shields Up on http://www.grc.com/) that are open, plenty of seeders/leechers, but only connected to 1 or 2 at a time. I get the occasional random high speed, but this is only if the 1 or 2 I am connected to are fast connections, which most aren't. So it looks to me at the moment that rather than blocking ports or restricting bandwidth that some how they are restricting the maxiumum number of simultaneous connections per individual torrent.

Any workarounds anyone can suggest will be greatly welcomed. I am not a PC Muppet and have a good idea of what I am doing, and at this stage I am happy to believe its nothing I am doing wrong!

Should anyone think that downloading torrents is a completely illegal activity and talk of it suggests being banned, have a look at this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4463372.stm
Any workarounds anyone can suggest will be greatly welcomed. I am not a PC Muppet and have a good idea of what I am doing, and at this stage I am happy to believe its nothing I am doing wrong!

Cheers!

Antanas

Hi Guys,

As to the same topic I have also something to add.
I have signed up for Clearwire on Monday and had it tomorrow morning which was incredible and I must say I was impressed with such a start.

As I am a tenant in a basement floor I receive a weak 3 bar signal, which supplies me with the 30-80KBps download. This already seam ridiculous.
Anyway my point is different.
I work in HP IT department and I have applied for Business packet as it supplies you with free wireless router but mainly I was interested in 50GB bandwidth limit capability so I was ready to pay 79 euro's for this service.

Before I applied for the service I have Carefully studied the Terms & License agreement (due to bad experience).

So to get to the point when I have started to use the provided internet service I have noticed that P2P applications like BitTorrent are struggling to operate. I reached speeds up to 1kbps. (Same with emule). I should also state that both the applications that I am operating and downloading are completely legal. (P.s: to be precise I have scheduled to download several Linux distributions. And I have planed to establish P2P connection with the office to run several applications). As the applications were not operating I have tested my local machine's port settings, enabled port forwarding, tested proxy connection possibility to get around possible blocked ports. All my attempts ended with no success.

After the following attempts failure I have rang in Customer service rep. to get a better idea what the policy regarding both ports and P2P is and came with the following info:

(I must note that customer service is decent)

CSR stated that first of all my signal is very weak and the technician will be sent out immediately (haven’t they noticed that when installing?).
Second thing that I needed to clarify is port/P2P policy and it was stated that no ports as such are blocked though to my disappointment I was informed that all P2P activities are considered abusive as this will effect external users. As this is a clear policy which is even stated in Terms & License agreement no further comments are to be directed on this.
Following discussion was made on what is considered an "abusive" activity. It is noted that continues download/upload of streaming video/audio is considered abusive as it "eats" up bandwidth so this is the reason why P2P is monitored and blocked. When stated that I use P2P to run application and download freeware for work related purposes the P2P connection was considered and request to log a consumer case carried out. To be more precise it will go to consumer management as there is a conflict between a end-user and Terms & License agreement found. (especially for business packet). I will receive a feedback on this as soon as the management will be available and was told that I will receive further calls form the management.

Sorry about such a long post but my point on this would be:
I found a Terms and License agreement conflict by which I will be willing to terminate the contract with no fees applied if P2P will not be enabled.
So my advise would be if you are disappointed with the provided service limitations log it with Clearwire helpdesk. As you know - every voice counts.

I have also contacted ComReg (www.comreg.ie) and I was told that it my be reasonable case but unfortunately they do not have power on wireless IPS communications yet. Or the co-ordinations are not clearly stated yet.


So if anyone of You was so patient to read this post, I would be most grateful if you could supply some feedbacks on my opinion.

Many thanks,
Antanas

Antanas

As to the same post above I can give you feedback when received form the Clearwire on this, if you are interested.

Ludo

Interesting stuff. As a new clearwire customer myself who is also getting very frustrated with them I would like to hear more about this if and when there are developments.

ricey

Blocking ports is just a load of crap, its prob not that
there has to be something else.

Hoodle

Antanas wrote:

I found a Terms and License agreement conflict by which I will be willing to terminate the contract with no fees applied if P2P will not be enabled.

So just to clarify this for my (and maybe others) benefit, there is a contradiction in the T&L agreement that means we can terminate our contract if P2P is not enabled?

Could you direct me to the contradictory paragraphs so I can quote them to the CSR?

Cheers for this.

Antanas

Hoodle wrote:

So just to clarify this for my (and maybe others) benefit, there is a contradiction in the T&L agreement that means we can terminate our contract if P2P is not enabled?

Could you direct me to the contradictory paragraphs so I can quote them to the CSR?

Cheers for this.

Unfortunately id does not say anything when or why the contract can be terminated but it also does not say that P2P actions will be blocked.
If it’s not in the T&L agreements then it means that we were not informed about this when accepting.
So no application blockings or other restrictions can be applied if it is not stated in the T&L.

If you’re willing to terminate the contract due to the same thing as I am, I'll keep you informed on how the story will end.

Antanas

ricey wrote:

Blocking ports is just a load of crap, its prob not that
there has to be something else.

Ports are not blocked, see Quote:

ricey wrote:

Second thing that I needed to clarify is port/P2P policy and it was stated that no ports as such are blocked though to my disappointment I was informed that all P2P activities are considered abusive as this will effect external users.

DemonOfTheFall

Just because they don't block the ports, doesn't mean that they don't absolutely cripple throughput on said ports. Supposedly a few ISPs are using packet analysis software which kills P2P speeds nomatter what ports you are using. Get onto Clearwire on the phone and roast them over it. Then terminate your contract if they don't do anything about. With such a high profile ad campaign they can't really get away with hiding/lieing about this.

Hoodle

Read through service agreement again and got this :

'You may not use the Service or take any action that will result in excessive consumption or utilization of Clearwire’s system or network resources, or which may weaken network performance, or which adversely affects the performance of the Services for other Clearwire customers, all as determined in Clearwire’s sole discretion'.

Presumably this covers P2P networks, although it could have been more specific about it.

Now I'm getting picky but it states that 'continuously uploading or downloading STREAMING video or audio' is prohibited. Last time I checked P2P wasnt streaming.

I'm going to roast them now, and will let you know how I get on.

Antanas

DemonOfTheFall wrote:

Just because they don't block the ports, doesn't mean that they don't absolutely cripple throughput on said ports. Supposedly a few ISPs are using packet analysis software which kills P2P speeds nomatter what ports you are using. Get onto Clearwire on the phone and roast them over it. Then terminate your contract if they don't do anything about. With such a high profile ad campaign they can't really get away with hiding/lieing about this.

This in fact what I'm doing. Though I will be glad to use their services if the subject actions will be allowed.
By the way you was right to note that they use packet analysis to cripple the connection as that’s what I was informed about.

So by razing this clarify case I am trying not to terminate the contract but to get this action permitted for all users as this concerns not only myself, but you guys are effected as well. So if you were kind enough to ream my long post would be great if you logged the case on Cloearwire Helpdesk as well. That will increase the attention to this issue.

Hoodle

Okay just got off the phone to Tech Support.

In a nutshell he told me that Clearwire have no intention of allowing P2P traffic through its service due to the Fair Use Policy.

As I still within my 7 days 'trial period', chances are I will terminate my contract as both the blocking/restricting of P2P and their incapability to sort out the VoIP issues has left a horrendously bitter taste in my mouth.

If they were open and honest about this from the get go, I wouldn't be so royally p****d off.

sudurban_blues

I terminated clearwire because they wouldn't allow p2p, having spoken with people from tech support/customer care, mailed them explanations as to why I needed it etc. In fairness at least they answer queries and call back when they say they will.

How is Metro on this score? The situation is still pretty desolate, between the morass that is IBB and the upfront but unsatisfacvtory network management of Clearwire.

We're being driven back to fixed line and the beast that is Eircom. What to do? Given all these problems I'm surprised that community wireless and experiments with mesh networking haven't taken hold, at least in those areas with population density to support them.

blue in sudurbia

ps fair play to Antanas and Hoodle for documenting their efforts which as was rightly stated, are in all our interests.

DemonOfTheFall

Seems that digiweb will let you do whatever you want with your connection, no ports blocked, no restrictions, an unenforced cap. Trying to get it ordered later tonight

eth0_

Digiweb block p2p ports iirc.


I'm really disgusted at Clearwire. They were fantastic until they actually LAUNCHED.
Not allowing streaming audio? FFS! I have internet radio on virtually all the time. I'm paying them 45 euro a month for BROADBAND not a sh*tty crippled service.

the_syco

boardmember wrote:

including 6881

6881-6889 are blocked by everyone else. Pick another 9 ports, or you'll get super-slow speeds, as lots of ISP's blacklist those ports.

Most people have just picked other ports (that would be used by legit applications), and got around this minor problem.

I used to get really low speeds, untill I changed my ports. It came in pretty much over night, and lots of sites told you of this, and why to change it. The best thing: since I've switched ports, I've had no problems.

Oh, and I pity the foo who posts up their ports, cos if a port becomes "standard", and the ISPs find which one it is, all they have to do is blacklist it.

dam099

eth0_ wrote:

Not allowing streaming audio? FFS! I have internet radio on virtually all the time. I'm paying them 45 euro a month for BROADBAND not a sh*tty crippled service.

That is just ridiculous, streaming audio and video are two of the applications that are supposed to be driving the move to broadband. Clearwire are bordering on false advertising as they clearly tout the benefits of their service for downloading music and video here, although they do show apparent downloads as opposed to streaming audio and video, but that is a pretty fine distinction.

philologos

change to a different port btw trackers often block the default 6881

[V3]

As I mentioned, I open a different port. In fact I open like 50000 ports for bittorent and I still couldnt get a decent speed. Clearwire was the only alternative I had to IBB. I got Clearwire installed and found out Bittorent and VOIP could not be used at all. I was getting faster speed on bittorent with IBB compared with Clearwire. Imagine that. So I decided to cancel my contrac because I had a 7 day cooling period.

boardmember

I am so disgusted about this... Its probably my own fault for not reading the T&C's, however when I rang Tech support they said that there were no restrictions and that the slow speeds were due to heavy traffic, she actually said "when people come home from work around six and start using the internet this can cause the network to become congested... Why not try downloading at a later time when there are not as many people on the Clearwire network".. FFS, what am I supposed to do.. Wait until 2am. I am past the 7 day cooling off period so will have to pay 150 or something to cancel. What a sickner...!

That streaming Media thing is just absolute BS..

RangeR

Antanas wrote:

As I am a tenant in a basement floor I receive a weak 3 bar signal, which supplies me with the 30-80KBps download. This already seam ridiculous.

Probably just unlucky, mate. Is there much metal in your walls or in between you and the base station. Is there anything blocking Line of Sight between your residence and the base station? My modem has absolutely no line of sight with my local base station. In fact there are about 20 full houses directly between my modem [and not near a window] and the base station. Admittedly, I do not get more than 3 lights on at any given time but I do get full speed.

Antanas wrote:

And I have planed to establish P2P connection with the office to run several applications).

If this is true, I really feel for you. I know I'm going to get roasted for this, but it's the other guys that flood bandwidth with illegal upload and downloads that are ruining P2P and ISP's for us. The likes of Movies, TV Shows, Music from non legal sites... This all adds up. I don't blame the ISP's for throtteling P2P traffic. To be honest, I'm sure there will come a day, and probably soon, where all ISP's will totally block that traffic. Then were will we be. Rendering a potentially legitimate piece of software technology useless.

I use bit torrent the odd time, and I actually only use it for downloading huge distributions and have never used it for any other purpose. It is so handy to use but downloading via http or ftp is a good second. I have stopped using it because it is now quicker to download large pieces of software from the companies FTP or HTTP server, than using their BT setup. This is because ISP's have started limiting bandwidth on these ports.

The company I work for distributes our Telecoms software. The size of these distributions can range anywhere from 150MB to 1.5GB. I would rather BT this down but now it's not worth my while. I don't complain about it because I know ISP's can't do that much about it without risking their network.

Everyone wants their TV show, their movies, whatever. They don't want to wait 5 hours for a 30 minute show to download, they want it now. Complain about 1.5K speeds? Want your 200K speeds? I really don't see things changing.

I want to use BT too, but as I'm trying to download legel software, I have alternatives, like normal downloading.

Antanas wrote:

I was informed that all P2P activities are considered abusive as this will effect external users.

According to the T's and C's, it is abusive. At least the abuse of P2P is abusive on the network.

Antanas wrote:

It is noted that continues download/upload of streaming video/audio is considered abusive as it "eats" up bandwidth so this is the reason why P2P is monitored and blocked.

Now this one I totally disagree with. Streaming a radio station down to your computer doesn't take up much bandwith at all. Like, 2FM takes up about 20Kbps. If you kept that playing for a 24 hour session that would equate to
24 Kb per second
24 * 60 = 1440 Kb per minute
1044 * 60 = 86400 Kb per hour
86400 * 24 = 2073600 Kb per day

Which is 259, 200 KB per day, 253 MB per day or 7.5 GB per month.

This is well under the monthly quota. And that's assuming you had it streaming every second of every day.

Antanas wrote:

I have also contacted ComReg (www.comreg.ie) and I was told that it my be reasonable case but unfortunately they do not have power on wireless IPS communications yet. Or the co-ordinations are not clearly stated yet.

I would tend to disagree. I used Comreg to get me out of my IBB contract for failing to provide ANY service. IBB rang ME back when Comreg intervened.

Antanas

Well this was not my considerations what’s right or wrong. It is stated clearly that streaming audio/video is considered abusive as it effects external customers. (Stated in the T&L'a).

I have not received a call from them yesterday on whether the P2P traffic will be permitted for my business package.
I'll phone them up later on today to terminate the contract if there will not be any good news on anything. (My contract is still on probation as I have signed it on Monday).

stakey

From the T&C's

"Amendments. Subject to applicable law, Clearwire may in its sole discretion amend any of the Terms or your Service Plan. Clearwire will provide notice to you of any material modification. If you do not agree to a modification that is materially disadvantageous to you, you may terminate the Agreement within twenty (20) days of the date we send our notice, and you will not be charged any Early Termination Fee."

I haven't received notice that certain applications such as P2P are now being closed down. I rang them last night and their Customer Support rep agreed with me. He claimed P2P traffic had crippled their network and that they are planning on not allowing any access to P2P over their network full stop. :mad:

eth0_

Jakkass wrote:

change to a different port btw trackers often block the default 6881

It makes no difference. I put my machine behind the DMZ on my firewall, still doesn't connect to any torrents anymore.

Even connecting directly to the clearwire modem I get nothing. Not even a crippled 1kb/s speed.


The sickening thing is, I don't think it even mentions p2p on their terms and conditions.

Antanas

deconstruct wrote:

From the T&C's

"Amendments. Subject to applicable law, Clearwire may in its sole discretion amend any of the Terms or your Service Plan. Clearwire will provide notice to you of any material modification. If you do not agree to a modification that is materially disadvantageous to you, you may terminate the Agreement within twenty (20) days of the date we send our notice, and you will not be charged any Early Termination Fee."

I haven't received notice that certain applications such as P2P are now being closed down. I rang them last night and their Customer Support rep agreed with me. He claimed P2P traffic had crippled their network and that they are planning on not allowing any access to P2P over their network full stop. :mad:

This is a great point to note.
I have ringed in to terminate the contract and everything was OK.
Ordered a landline to get MegaNet which seems to be the best there is.

philologos

whats MegaNet??

Vadrefjorde

Guys the non P2P friendly ISP's have long since moved on from the days of blocking ports and posts have been repeated on the sublect time and time again on boards. The offending ISP's have a lot more resources available nowadays to shape traffic flow and as has already been said here time and again, AVOID these ISP's, vote with your feet and they'll finally get the message.
DPI (deep packet inspection) is the order of the day and can kill traffic flow within seconds of it being initiated, recognising the signature of the traffic as opposed to the port.
Why people still sign up with digiweb (in all it's various flavours), clearwire, IBB etc.. that employ this tactic beggars belief

Antanas

Vadrefjorde wrote:

Guys the non P2P friendly ISP's have long since moved on from the days of blocking ports and posts have been repeated on the sublect time and time again on boards. The offending ISP's have a lot more resources available nowadays to shape traffic flow and as has already been said here time and again, AVOID these ISP's, vote with your feet and they'll finally get the message.
DPI (deep packet inspection) is the order of the day and can kill traffic flow within seconds of it being initiated, recognising the signature of the traffic as opposed to the port.
Why people still sign up with digiweb (in all it's various flavours), clearwire, IBB etc.. that employ this tactic beggars belief

Good point made. I had employed some of my technical colleagues to clarify my case and the information was the same as quoted above. DPI is used to cripple P2P packets and no ports are blocked just as stated by ISP's tech support.

RangeR

Vadrefjorde wrote:

AVOID these ISP's, vote with your feet and they'll finally get the message.

Why people still sign up with digiweb (in all it's various flavours), clearwire, IBB etc.. that employ this tactic beggars belief

Seriously, people know what they are getting themselves into when they sign up for ISP's. In this day and age when everyone knows about P2P, you would have to be totally naive to assume that P2P won't be blocked. Can you name one ISP in Ireland that either doesn't block / shape P2P or states somewhere in their T's & C's that abusing the network to the detriment of others won't be tolerated?

Can you name ANY ISP in Ireland that doesn't state in their T's & C's that illegal use of their network is prohibited? I think not.

As far as I know, it's in all of them [waiting to be corrected as I'm not 100% sure on the first point]

And you think that you [not you personally, Vadrefjorde, but you in general] have a god given right to access some other network on YOUR terms. This just doesn't happen. You do not have a right to use ANY network that is not your own for illegal means. And by this, I mean using P2P to download / upload music / movies / tv shows / software / whatever illegaly, hack, , botnet, whatever.

What gives you the right to use your internet connection fully on your terms? You are only renting bandwith on a private network that just happens to be connected to the internet. The owner of the network, Clearwire in this case, can do what they want with it once they provide the service that they have committed to within the terms and conditions of that described service.

neelix26

im on clearwire for the last month, and have all the same problems as you guys, called customer service today and the girl logged my complaint. also spoke to the technician that installed it and was told id be called back but no...
think ill be moving on.. any reccomendations?? no phone line..

i had IBB before this and thought it was bad but this is half as fast again...!!

the_syco

[V3] wrote:

In fact I open like 50000 ports for bittorent

This is your problem. As it only uses the 1st 4 ports, for the 1st 4 downloads, the rest won't be used. Also, those 1st 4 may be not the best. Try to change to different ports, and you'll get a good 10 ports to use.

oscarBravo

IrishTLR wrote:

What gives you the right to use your internet connection fully on your terms? You are only renting bandwith on a private network that just happens to be connected to the internet.

It never ceases to amaze me how many people fail to realise this.

Hoodle

IrishTLR wrote:

What gives you the right to use your internet connection fully on your terms? You are only renting bandwith on a private network that just happens to be connected to the internet. The owner of the network, Clearwire in this case, can do what they want with it once they provide the service that they have committed to within the terms and conditions of that described service.

Maybe if people talk via their feet and wallets they'll see what rights we demand considering we'll be paying 50 euro a month for the 'privilege' of renting their server space. Once they start making losses then they'll see that consumers hold weight.

Peanut

deconstruct wrote:

I haven't received notice that certain applications such as P2P are now being closed down. I rang them last night and their Customer Support rep agreed with me. He claimed P2P traffic had crippled their network and that they are planning on not allowing any access to P2P over their network full stop. :mad:

Good move by them, wireless broadband + p2p don't mix.

neelix26

what are you on about you idiot, why would you want broadband that you caqn only use for certain things for the same money. got an email asking me to reccomend them the other day,and i replied saying that i wouldnt because the service is rubbish to which i got my long awaited call back from the disgruntled technician saying hed look into it.. :-p

RangeR

neelix26 wrote:

what are you on about you idiot, why would you want broadband that you caqn only use for certain things for the same money. got an email asking me to reccomend them the other day,and i replied saying that i wouldnt because the service is rubbish to which i got my long awaited call back from the disgruntled technician saying hed look into it.. :-p

Would you mind clarifying who you are calling a spa and an idiot?

From what you have written, you sound like someone in or around the 15 to 18 age bracket. If I am correct people of that age group have the mentality that they want everything now. Everything, even if they are not entitled to it. Even if what they want is illegal. Even if it could possibly be to your detriment. They still want it.

A quick reminder about P2P. Ireland lost out on that race. We got broadband too late. Yes people have been using P2P software for years without being stopped. Why? Because the likes or IRMA didn't know about it or didn't care because it wasn't mainstream. They didn't see a handful of people being a threat. The same with MP3's in the early to mid 1990's. I remember, back when I was 18 or 19, when I used to freely download MP3's from loads of websites and Napster. The record companies were very slow to react because even the Internet wasn't mainstream. But as the numbers grew, they got worried. They didn't embrace the medium but fought against it. But that is going slightly off topic.

These days, IRMA and their ilk, are attempting to come down hard on file sharers. It is "unfiortunate" that we as a country joined this great revolution of file sharing after everyone else had tried it and the proper "authorities" were informed.

When I say attempting, I mean that they will try. It's up to the courts and lawyers to see which way it goes. But I'm sure IRMA will intimidate a good few outside of the courts. Just to get headline news.

I will ask the question again. What gives you the right to DEMAND that ANY ISP allows you to do something illegal on their private network?

I know what I say here will have no bearing on your frame of mind on the subject, but as I said, that is the mentality of your age group. You want to be able to do what you want to do, regardless of whether it is illegal or not. I'm sure the ISP's don't care if you want to do something illegal but they sure aren't going to help you do it with their network.

I applaud Clearwire and only hope that they can fend off the pressure to free up the P2P ports. Some of us have work to do and P2P traffic slows us down and clogs the networ needlesly.

I am pretty sure other ISP's will follow suit in time.

neelix26

youve just proved me right mate..:D
you are an idiot plain and simple, you didnt get where i was coming from at all and theres a clue to my age in my username..
i use it for work as well, my point is why would you want broadband that limits you when there are isps that dont! i dont think there would be many other people who would argue with that and if they do they should join you in the nuthouse..haha..
i quote you "some of us have to work", seems you still can make the time to post big long piles of drivel though!

RangeR

The reaon I have time to post long posts, not that it's any of your business, is that my Clearwire has gone down and I'm on backup but too slow to work.

In this debate, I am entitled to my opinion without prejudice, as are you. I didn't stoop to personal insults.

Anywho... Reported for personal abuse.

antodeco

What I cant understand is that people complain about how they cant use p2p to get songs/videos etc. Why dont people PAY for napster/itunes? Thats not p2p It seems that people would rather complain about not doing something legit, than rather paying for a service and being able to use it no problems. I use itunes, and can download songs very fast. Imesh on the other hands runs about 5kps at most. Im happy to use itunes and clearwire, because it works no problem because it works legit. Why doesnt everybody make their own alcohol and drink it, rather than paying the high prices in pubs? Because people know that its illegal. People are happy to use other services that they pay for, so why not itunes?
I know people are going to say that they already pay clearwire for a service, but they give you access, thats all.
If you get a taxi to mcdonalds, do you expect the taximan to get out and pay for your food?
If you ring a taxi company and tell them you want a taxi to bring you to a shop that you are going to rob, do you think that they will send a taxi out?
Its the same principle, if ISP's know that you are going to do something illegal, they wont let you. I know not every p2p is illegal, but its the large majority, and thats what causes the problems for everybody else. Is every under 25 male driver a dangerous driver? no, yet we are discriminated because of the large majority.
in 12 months time every ISP will block p2p, because of new legislation coming in the new year. people are burning their bridges now with isps, and will be left out in the cold when ISPs turn around and tell them, due to previous activites, they will not accept you onto their service.
All i can is, I wait for the day this happens. Boards will be very quiet!

bitelz

antodeco wrote:

Why doesnt everybody make their own alcohol and drink it, rather than paying the high prices in pubs? Because people know that its illegal.

you don't seriously believe this, do you?
why don't people make their own shoes? it's perfectly legal...
they don't make them, cause they don't know how or they have other things to do. same with booze. there is no reason why making alcohol should be illegal. that's just one more government monopoly, like An Post, Eircom or Garda.
the thing with copyright. yeah, copyright is fine in theory. what is wrong in practice is that we, the taxpayers, sponsor police to go out and enforce someone else's rights. it should be the content owners (Sony, BMI, etc) hiring their own lawyers, police etc. and go hunting for P2P users.
if you leave your car unlocked, key in the ignition, etc. no insurance company or police will treat you seriously. if you engage in a business and "own" digital content, that any child can copy and multiply without any hassle, it's your own fault that. wanna do something about it, no problem, but don't go around robbing people from money to sponsor your own crusade.

Peanut

antodeco wrote:

.... Why doesnt everybody make their own alcohol and drink it, rather than paying the high prices in pubs? Because people know that its illegal.

Homebrewing is not illegal ! (as long as it's not distilling, or selling)
It's also fun..

antodeco wrote:

..Its the same principle, if ISP's know that you are going to do something illegal, they wont let you.

No, they don't care really, unless there is a complaint. Even then they couldn't really care less. They're not being paid to enforce other people's copyright.

The reason p2p is restricted is because it makes it a lot more difficult to manage network traffic on a contended service.

antodeco wrote:

..in 12 months time every ISP will block p2p, because of new legislation coming in the new year.

That's not going to happen - it would be like trying to make legislation to enforce blocking of spam.

Vadrefjorde

antodeco wrote:

Why doesnt everybody make their own alcohol and drink it, rather than paying the high prices in pubs? Because people know that its illegal.

AFAIK home brew shops still exist in this country albeit only a few. Maybe we should send the prohibition squad round to burn them down.:p

antodeco wrote:

If you ring a taxi company and tell them you want a taxi to bring you to a shop that you are going to rob, do you think that they will send a taxi out?
Its the same principle, if ISP's know that you are going to do something illegal, they wont let you. I know not every p2p is illegal, but its the large majority, and thats what causes the problems for everybody else. Is every under 25 male driver a dangerous driver? no, yet we are discriminated because of the large majority.

Interesting analogy there, here's mine. FORD build cars that are clearly designed to operate at speed over and above the national speed limit which is clearly not what they were intended for. This is clearly a breach of the traffic regulations and we have many lobby groups pointing the finger of blame, Young drivers, government, archaic road netwoks. Yet nobody points the finger of blame at FORD. Here's what we should do: The government should put pressure on FORD to check whether a potential customer has been caught speeding and refuse to supply him with a car should he have "burnt his bridges before". A database of names could be collated and shared amongst all car manufacturers.

neelix26

the fact of the matter is that clearwire are signing people up for a service they are not providing. you cant just sign people up without telling them and then say oh by the way, you cant use p2p. it should be stated at time of install.. im sure youd find there company will not be doing as well as they are now..! they dont care about you, just your money..

Vadrefjorde

neelix26 wrote:

the fact of the matter is that clearwire are signing people up for a service they are not providing. you cant just sign people up without telling them and then say oh by the way, you cant use p2p. it should be stated at time of install.. im sure youd find there company will not be doing as well as they are now..! they dont care about you, just your money..

I couldn't agree more but the fact is that the "fair use policy" is incorporated in to practically all ISPs. What i can't understand is that peolpe still sign up with these ISP's that enforce restrictions when there are more "user friendly" ISP's out there. First it was P2P that certain ISP's were complaining about, now it's streaming audio etc... Wise up people these guys just jumped on the bandwagon of "file sharing is illegal" but streaming audio isn't? They're only concerned with bandwith usage, illegal or not which btw is ridiculously cheap!

As with anything there is a way around current restrictions that are being imposed by these ISP's and this trend is being taken in the UK by many that haven't yet had their ISP's impose restrictions on them. I can only foresee the same thing happening in this country.

neelix26

how do you know that man?