Fear of Flying and Airplane Stories?

faceman

C'mon give us ur gossip? Who has a bad fear of flying or a freaky story from a flight u can tell us?

#1. A mate of mine is a BAD flyer. Hes 26. But hes a jack the lad. That didnt stop him freaking out on a short flight to glasgow. The friendly air hostess sat down beside him and held his hand for the landing. No joke. No that wasnt a typo, hes 26!!

#2. A guy who works with me asked me for 6 weeks off next year for his hols. I asked him if he was going travelling or something. He said he is going to new york with his wife for 2 weeks but is sailing over and back cos he is scared sh1tless of flying!!

TerrorFirmer

I haven't really had any bad stories but I fcuking hate aeroplanes. I've flown on loads and loads of flights to Europe and Africa over the years and every moment I'm thinking about what could happen. And yes, I know by using logic the chances are extremely slim but god I hate them.

Now that I'm eighteen I told my parents no more planes, and instead of going on a free holiday to Morroco this year I just stayed at home. And I was damn happy with it, just knowing I wouldn't have to get on a plane.

I HATE PLANES!!!!

faceman

I used to hate flying but ive flown so much now i dont care anymore. I was on a plane once where a dude locked himself in the jax during landing and the air hostess had to force the door open. Ur man walked out with his cax around his ankles! Lets just say he wasnt doing a number 1 or number 2...

kelle

After being around the world on countless number of flights, I've developed a fear of flying. If I feel turbulence I start to panic. But I still feel a holiday is not a holiday without a flight involved, so I put myself through the agony year after year. Admittedly, I had a better time in Milton Malbay than in Lanzarote this year.
Going to Gran canaria in January and dreading it!

Endurance Man

I actaully enjoy flying, well more the taking off and landing part, probably because of the speed. The only part i dont enjoy is sitting on those cramped seats, luckily my uncle works for airways so i usually get a cheecky bump up .

kelle

faceman wrote:

I used to hate flying but ive flown so much now i dont care anymore. I was on a plane once where a dude locked himself in the jax during landing and the air hostess had to force the door open. Ur man walked out with his cax around his ankles! Lets just say he wasnt doing a number 1 or number 2...

Hee-hee-hee!

Royale with Cheese

There was once a man with a fear of flying. He boarded a flight. The plane didn't crash. The end. Sorry Alanis Morisette but that is how the story actually goes.

Sorry to offend anybody but I have very low opinions of people whose fear of flying would stop them from boarding a plane or booking a holiday. Everyone knows what the chances of their plane crashing are. Extremely slim. I can't help but think people (sometimes even great people like Dennis Bergkamp) who won't fly are just victims of sensationalism in the media.

faceman

Dr J wrote:

There was once a man with a fear of flying. He boarded a flight. The plane didn't crash. The end.

Sorry to offend anybody but I have very low opinions of people whose fear of flying would stop them from boarding a plane or booking a holiday. Everyone knows what the chances of their plane crashing are. Extremely slim. I can't help but think people (sometimes even great people like Dennis Bergkamp) who won't fly are just victims of sensationalism in the media.

so why the low opinion? Have u any phobias?

Royale with Cheese

faceman wrote:

so why the low opinion? Have u any phobias?

I have no major phobias that I know of. The low opinion because they are letting themselves be afraid of something that is not dangerous to the point of it actually affecting their life (how many people do you know in today's society that have never flown? It's a part of life now). I don't have a problem with nervous flyers or people who sh*t themselves on a plane. If you're afraid of it (although you shouldn't be) I guess you can't help it. It should never influence your decision as to whether you'll book a flight or not.

Funkstard

I absolutely love flying. I've been on many a flight, but everytime I board the plane I feel like I did when I was 11 going to Florida, I've never been so excited in my life. Everything about flying, the takeoff/landing, the hustle and bustle of the airport, the movies, the food, the views from the window.......it's something that's never worn off.

My worst experience was when flying to Shannon this year before going onwards to Boston. The wind was so bad we came in to land twice and had to go back up because it was too strong. The turbulance was something else - it was the first time I felt properly scared on a flight, there was several times where the plane just dropped and my heart was in my mouth. Along with that, half the plane got airsick and the smell was absolutely repugnant. I had to mash my pillow in my face to get rid of the smell.

Those sudden drops are what gets to me.....coming back from New York I was asleep, and I woke up to the plane dropping in the air for a good 3 seconds. That's a damn long time for something like that to be happening. For those 3 seconds the plane might as well have been nosediving into the sea. Scary stuff.

However it hasn't put me off, and I absolutely cannot wait for the flight to Melbourne in January!

Dr J wrote:

I have no major phobias that I know of. The low opinion because they are letting themselves be afraid of something that is not dangerous to the point of it actually affecting their life (how many people do you know in today's society that have never flown? It's a part of life now). I don't have a problem with nervous flyers or people who sh*t themselves on a plane. If you're afraid of it (although you shouldn't be) I guess you can't help it. It should never influence your decision as to whether you'll book a flight or not.

It's called an irrational fear for a reason....there is no logic to it, just that people can have huge phobias of the most inane things. You can't understand it if you don't have a phobia for something

faceman

Funkstard wrote:

I
For those 3 seconds the plane might as well have been nosediving into the sea. Scary stuff.

Interestingly enuff, u have less chance of surviving the crash impact if a plane was to crash into the sea instead of land. Or so they tell the cabin crew in training!

Funkstard

Really? The fact that it's water and not solid land makes absolutely no different when something that big hits it going that fast, so I presume it's because of the fact that people will drown in the sea that makes it more dangerous?

Royale with Cheese

Funkstard wrote:

It's called an irrational fear for a reason....there is no logic to it, just that people can have huge phobias of the most inane things. You can't understand it if you don't have a phobia for something

Yes I have known people who will freak out at the sight of a banana... however just one. How many people have a fear of flying or are nervous flyers? Could it be something to do with the intense media coverage any plane crash gets? I mean there are tv shows on sky about different plane crashes through the years.

Funkstard

No, it's the fact that you have absolutely no control as to what happens at that height, and that if it does, you're pretty much guaranteed to die. You're both useless and powerless to do anything once the plane leaves the ground

Sizzler

I have to say I wud fly around the world in the pelt before Id get on a boat, rather crash into the ground then drown!

lazylad

I love planes. I would love to learn how to fly. Never been frightened of flying. I love the speed of takeoff,
I used to collect the matchbox planes. I have about 10 different planes collected. Have had them for 10 years in good condition. £4 each they used to be, I had to beg to get them.

SpAcEd OuT

Flying to Portugal the turbulance was so bad some overheads even opened and bags fell out everyone on the plane was freaked then the lights all went off and the plane dropped for at least 4 or 5 seconds....scariest moments of my life,all the kids screaming didnt help either,some kids even cried for the whole journey it was a nightmare.

seamus

Funkstard wrote:

No, it's the fact that you have absolutely no control as to what happens at that height, and that if it does, you're pretty much guaranteed to die. You're both useless and powerless to do anything once the plane leaves the ground

Seriously, you're statistically more likely to die in the taxi journey home on the M50. And at that speed you have absolutely no control as to what happens, and you're pretty much guaranteed to die.

Much like Dr J, I can't understand anyone being so mortally afraid of something so mundane that they would allow it to affect their life to the point of spending 12 extra days travelling just to avoid it. Sure, I get a quick jump of the old ticker when the plane does a bumpy or windy landing, but who doesn't?

Pigman II

I'm not scared of flying but I am scared of a plane crashing into my home whilst I'm sitting here scratching my balls and watching tv. Great fun when you live within earshot of the Dublin flightpaths as I currently do then.

Anyway, my question is, is there any webpages around that describe what its (probably) like to die in an aeroplane crash as I'd nearly feel happier knowing than just dropping out of the sky unprepared for my fate? It seems to be almost a taboo subject as far as I can tell.

I detest flying but I wouldn't say I'm scared of it. I just find it really unpleasant. I have sinus problems and I always end up with an unbearable splitting headache, blocked ears to the point of being almost deaf etc. It just makes me feel awful, every single time. I hate the awful dry air and the way you can't sleep, or if you manage to you wake up with a sawdust mouth. I hate being crammed into a tiny space with no space to move my legs and not being able to walk around. I hate when people recline their seat back into your face, especially when you're eating. I just don't understand how anyone can enjoy flying. I put up with it but only just. I had a 8 hour flight to New York once which was hell. It was just so boring and went on and on.

And, there have been a good few plane crashes recently, enough to make me a bit more wary. Its unlikely to happen but there's still that chance.

galwaydude

i dont mind flying that much myself, different story for my gf though, she dreads flying so flying home to the states for her is hell and even worse for me. Nothing worse than having a nervous flyer beside you.

The General

Whats an airplane?

jezza

Well to be honest guys.. Ye're all going to die sometime. Big Deal if its on a plane.

byte

I detest flying. I'll still board planes, etc, but I'm glad to be on hard ground again! The less Ive to fly the better!

Umiq88

you havent experienced turbulence unless you've been on your friends dads 15 year old 2 seater which he restored himself

great fun though loved it stalled the engine (on purpose) and let it glide a bit thats scary alright and a couple of sharp turns but its all good

must say i love the rush of speed you get still get a bit jumpy when the plane drops a bit or turns sharply but thats naturel everyone gets it

turbot

If you have a phobia and you want to get rid of it, PM me and I'll discuss the details. I've extensively studied various advanced techniques in hypnosis and NLP, so if you have a phobia or you know someone who does, in 90% of cases I can eliminate it very quickly.

- Thomas

Binomate

I love flying. It's the safest mode of transport there is. The only bad experiences I've had was when landing at an airport in France, a cross wind lifted the right wing up and the plane nearly went sideways. Had to circle around and land on a different runway so that we could land into the wind.
My old man had a near miss with a plane who's pilot decided to taxi onto the runway as they were just about to land. The pilot apparently had to go full throtle and perfore some emergency evasion procedure. They circled round and landed again.

BobTheBeat

Im a bit of a flying scaredy cat, but it has only reared its evil little head in the past year.
Any kind of altitude drop,and i am very nearly in bits..eyes closed and grabbing the seat and everything....., im told its hilarious to witness. Also, if I cant see out the window due to cloud cover, i get really panicky.

Mate of mine travelled to Cancun on an airoflot (russian airline) charter good few years ago and is still marred by the experience. Inside the plane was kitted out very badly, seats were in sh*t, carpets torn on the aisle and a really really sickening smell of kerosene (plane petrol!) When they were passing over from the colder parts of the atmosphere to the warmer parts, the pilot announces not to be alarmed if the cabin should fill with 'smoke'. Couple of minutes later, the whole plane is filled with a thick fog and everyone starts freaking out.

But aside from all that, id never be scared enough NOT to get on a plane. The promise of a holiday is enough to get me through it all!

Royale with Cheese

bobmeaney wrote:

Mate of mine travelled to Cancun on an airoflot (russian airline) charter good few years ago and is still marred by the experience. Inside the plane was kitted out very badly, seats were in sh*t, carpets torn on the aisle and a really really sickening smell of kerosene (plane petrol!) When they were passing over from the colder parts of the atmosphere to the warmer parts, the pilot announces not to be alarmed if the cabin should fill with 'smoke'. Couple of minutes later, the whole plane is filled with a thick fog and everyone starts freaking out.

Aeroflot have by far and away the worst safety record of any airline in the world. It's gotten alot better in the past 15 years but before that if you look through the accident databases you will come across one aeroflot accident every other year. Dodgy alright.

Willymuncher

Only had one bad experience while flying, wasn't a huge deal, I was coming back from Spain, and it was the first time I had flown in years, when all of a sudden the plane started to drop for a few seconds, people started to scream...and a guy beside me was saying his prayers, that made me very very nervous. I've flown a few times since then over longer distances...one of which was dodgy, but when you educate yourself on why certain things happen, it relaxes you a lot......I found my last flight to be very enjoyable because I knew that every little drop or bump wasn't a big deal.

Dave!

Dr J wrote:

Could it be something to do with the intense media coverage any plane crash gets?

I'd say it might also be something to do with it being a 200 tonne mass of metal, travelling 600 miles per hour, 30,000 feet in the air (and you have no control over it)... It doesn't seem natural.

Pigman II

Could be rubbish but here's a heads up for tomorrow.

===========

Time - 15:00 to 16:00 (1 hour long).
When - Tuesday 13th December on Discovery

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Telling the untold human side of aviation disasters, focusing on the physical and psychological plight of the people inside a crashing airliner.

---

Mmmmm, cheery!

scojones

Where to start....

My father is an aircraft mechanic. He has about a million horror stories, but one sticks out in my head. Before I explain it, let me just say, he is TERRIFIED of flying, and he's a bloody aircraft mechanic! He doesn't think they are safe at all, not enough proper checks are done on them, etc etc.

Anyway, he was on a plane in stansted waiting to leave for Shannon, and the pilot came on the radio and said there would be a short delay. So my father sees these lads come on board in boiler suits (ya know, the white ones), and he looks out his window as sees one on the wing. The guy on the wing had a hair dryer (YES A FREAKING HAIR DRYER) and was "drying" the wing. Freaked out by this, my father asked to speak to the guy incharge of this reservicing, as he is very high up in his job back in Shannon. To cut a long story short, the guy told him that this was the plane's last flight (it was an MD-80), and there were tiny holes in the wings, but they really needed to get it back to Shannon, so they were doing a temporary fix on it.

Freaked the crap out of me.


Another story... My uncle used to live in Cyprus, he lives in Belgium now, while flying from Cyprus, he was looking out the window (in a similar position to where my father was on his plane in stansted), and he saw a screw bopping up and down, and it flew off. Then another, and another.... And then the engine fell off. This was a plane with four engines, so the other three were able to take over. My uncle flies everyday with his job (sales rep) and says he has no fear of flying, but that really scared the be-jesus out of me.

If you really want to freak yourself out checkout http://www.planecrashinfo.com (yes this link is safe ) they have the blackbox recordings of alot of plane crashes, some are transcripts in text, some are mp3s. Not for the faint-hearted!

Atrocity

I have never been on a plane. Those things go down man, they shudn't be in the air.. I have NEVER left the country. NEVER

Kablamo!

i used to love flying when i was younger.
lately, i still really enjoy it, but during touch down and taking off i do get hold the arm of my seat a bit tighter, haha.

my dad referred a cousin of mine on my mams side to a place for flying lessons, he crashed and died. my mother still claims he done this on purpose. haha, good aul dad.

Nightwish

I have no issues with flying, it doesnt bother me at all. However I was coming back from London in Septmeber and the turbulence as the plane was flying over Malahide, scared the sh!te out of me, I had never felt it so bad.

ronbyrne2005

when younger flyinh never bothered me but when i turned twenty i was on flight from london to dublin,had panic attack and since then have been scared of flying.reluctantly flew twice since that,in 2002 flew to LA ,11hour flight,i was dreading it for weeks,i looked up statistics on the safety of air travel etc but they didnt reassure me,i considered sailing to new york and getting train to LA but this would have been too expensive and taken too long.i was going to san diego for the summer.anyway i took a load of xanax and sleeping pills and the 11 hours seemed like ten minutes ,i was out cold and missed the meals drink etc.when i got to LA i was going through international arrivals and was still a bit out of it going through passport control,michael douglas was in front of me in the queue with about ten guys pushing his luggage ,i thought i was imagining things but it was him.
everyone knows the safety of air travel but they doesnt help those who are really scared of it,i think its something to do with the fact your so high up and if anything goes wrong your fecked,everyones gonna die sometime but people dont wanna have a few minutes in a plane crashing when they know they are gonna die.
i watch air crash investigation on national geographic all the time and it just makes me more scared.i dont think i will fly again,i get the ferryand train to the uk if im going to london manchester or the like,if i go to australia in future i plan to make a long trip over land and sea to get there,including going on the trans siberian railway etc
i know,im a fruitcake!

ronbyrne2005

article from a bermuda newspaper yesterday
......................................................................................................
A couple who forced a plane to land in Bermuda after they attacked cabin crew who stopped them having sex are facing a $34,000 bill for their pleasure.
And they run the risk of national shame back in England after UK tabloid The Sun ran the story with an appeal for the public to name and shame them.
It said stunned passengers watched in horror as the randy couple attacked cabin crew after being told to return to their seats.
They shouted abuse and spat as they grappled with the British Airways staff who forced them back into their business class seats.
And despite being restrained with plastic handcuffs, the pilot decided he had no choice but to divert the 777 jet to Bermuda.
The "sex rage" incident, as The Sun described it, began when they started drinking heavily on the ten-hour flight from Gatwick to Kingston, Jamaica on Monday.
They joined the "mile-high club" in one of the loos. But after their noisy passion was overheard by flight staff they were ordered out – and went berserk.
A passenger said: "They were asked politely to return to their seats but went ballistic. They were shouting vile abuse and spitting at staff." Another said: "The captain tried to calm them down but they were just as abusive to him."
The couple, who were booked on a two-week holiday, were held by Police in Bermuda and on Wednesday put on a flight back to Gatwick – where they were arrested. Now the pair from Luton, England face being charged with air rage – and the £34,000 cost of diverting the plane.
Bermuda Airport manager Jim Howes said: "It's always the joke among us pilots, and I am a pilot, about have you joined the mile high club?"
When asked if he had Mr. Howes said: "I can't comment – and you can quote me on that." Although he did say that on that long haul flight the couple had probably joined the seven-mile high club.
Asked if he had ever come across the phrase "sex rage" Mr. Howe said: "I can't say I have but I guess if they were caught by flight attendants in the flagrante delecto they would be a little perturbed by that."
Asked about the $34,000 cost of the tryst Mr. Howes said: "I just hope it was worth it."

-oRnein9-

I used to love flying when I was younger. 18 now but am beginning to fear every time I fly. As others have mentioned, I think its the fact that we have no influence over the safety of our lives in the event of an accident while flying. I went to gran canaria in the summer and really didn't enjoy the flight, maybe it was the fact that the plane was a piece of ****, god I will never fly with futura again, no messing, when we were boarding the plane me and my mates we like wtf this rust bucket wouldn't get you as far as shannon never mind las palmas.

Also flying with ryanair to engalnd last month really ****ted me up the planes were also pieces of ****. Boeing 747-200's these are the worst commerial airlines still in use these days in my opinion.


I hate Boeing 747-200's

connundrum

Having done the flying thing quite a bit (mostly not by my own choice), I've only thankfully had 2 near death/white light exeriences :eek: One was in Hong Kong international where the runway just drops off into the sea (whats the bleedin story with that?!), the plane landed and the pilot obviously decided it'd be way more fun to see how close to the edge he could come to a complete stop.. that was the only time that there was all the emergency service peeps rushing around - scary as fook though!

2nd time was flying Namibia to Paris and the plane went into loads of turbulance and we "came close" to a mountain range. That was the only time that I've been on a plane when the mask things have dropped.. I was only 5 or 6 but I fairly copped that a bleedin mask wasn't gonna save us from a mountain range! Go me! :cool:

magpie

I've gone from being mildly scared, to very scared, to phobic, to just not flying in about 10 years.

Worst experience was an emergency landing at Madeira (tiny ww2 airstrip), fire brigade, ambulances etc. The flight staff told us it was a "drill" :rolleyes:

Fear is not really linked to any particular instances though, as others have said its more the lack of control - and the possibility of knowing you're goingto die for a few minutes while stuck in an aluminium tube at 40,000 feet full of screaming people that puts me off.

I've tried ye olde hypnosis, but its a scam (surprise surprise) and works by desenstitising you to the various parts of your trip that make you nervous. For €100 I got hypnotised to not feel nervous about going to the airport. The next €100 would have dealt with getting on the plane.

I was thinking about doing the course at Dublin Airport, but they don't do the "graduation" flight any more, so it would be no good to me. I'd do the course but not fly!

Its at the stage where its really pissing me off now, I wish I could be brainwashed or drugged Mr T style. I know the odds are tiny, I just don't want to feel the stress of "what if". If I could be knocked out I'd have no problem flying anywhere, anytime.

Stupid eh?

el tel

connundrum wrote:

Having done the flying thing quite a bit (mostly not by my own choice), I've only thankfully had 2 near death/white light exeriences :eek: One was in Hong Kong international where the runway just drops off into the sea (whats the bleedin story with that?!), the plane landed and the pilot obviously decided it'd be way more fun to see how close to the edge he could come to a complete stop.. that was the only time that there was all the emergency service peeps rushing around - scary as fook though!

Hong Kong Kai Tak - mercifully now closed...
http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?&specialsearch=ACCIDENT&countrysearch=-%20Hong%20Kong%20-%20Kai%20Tak%20Int.%20%28HKG%20%2F%20VHHH%29%20%28closed%29&maxres=500&nr_of_rows=51&first_this_page=15&page_limit=15&sort_order=photo_id+DESC&thumbnails=&engine_version=6.0&nr_pages=4&page=

Pigman II

Pigman II wrote:

Time - 15:00 to 16:00 (1 hour long).
When - Tuesday 13th December on Discovery

Good programme. Really a bunch of testimonies rather than a 'documentary' but it gave a good idea as to what a crash would be like. The prog got testimony from survivors of six different plane crashes giving various recollections about burning bodies, broken bones and thinking fast in order to get out alive.

http://www.planecrashinfo.com/1978/1978-75.htm
http://www.planecrashinfo.com/1982/1982-3.htm
http://www.planecrashinfo.com/1989/1989-7.htm
http://www.planecrashinfo.com/1992/1992-12.htm
http://www.planecrashinfo.com/1995/1995-32.htm
http://www.planecrashinfo.com/2000/2000-44.htm

The worst one was probably the 2000 with descriptions of melting bodies & fireballs or 1989 where a large hole (I estimate 10x 20ft) blew out the side and sucked anyone who had been sitting there right out of the plane (just like in the movie Fight Club). Think twice before ordering that window seat in future!

Learned a few little facts like most aeroplanes crash within distance of 1km of an airport and that the plane wall is only 15cm thick. Scary!

Also interesting to know that the flight attendants themselves aren't just there to serve drinks and go thru the 'safety dance' but are also trained every 6months to deal with many emergency situations like these so be nice to them next time your on a plane instead of just moaning to them about your meal.

godtabh

Was flying from San Diego to NY via Chicago. Got about 20mins form Chicago and were told that we couldnt land in Chicago. And that was it. For about 3 hours we circled the airport. I thought the place hand blown up and we where gona crash cause we had no fuel! In the end we where told it was just a bad thunder storm. But it was a couple of days before the 9/11 first aniverseary.

That was the thing that started the ball rolling.

On the way home from Iceland last year on Iceland Express I flew through a blizard. Scary as f*uck! Plane was bouncing all over the place. I think a stewardess hurt her self and there was bags every where.

Been on some dodgy flights since.

But still I'll get on a plan say a prayer and hope for the best!

snorlax

i had a flying lesson for my 17th birthday was great cráic turning the plane and everything, nothing to be afraid of at all .

tinka

Royale with Cheese wrote:

Yes I have known people who will freak out at the sight of a banana... however just one.

i know someone with a fear of bananas... interesting.

i've been flying since i was six weeks old so no fear of it. my only fear would be of some of the people you might have to sit beside. flying home from ny once (after a connecting flight from la. very long, stressful day) i was seated next to a couple with a baby. i was close to tears from exhaustion. thank god the plane wasn't fully booked and i moved to a window seat on the left side of the plane. and the arm of the seat beside me was broken so i had two seats to myself. i could have kissed that wonderful flight attendant. :rolleyes:

magpie

a couple with a baby

Those insensitive swine

joejoem

I have no problem with flying, I just cant wait until I am rich enough to go busines class everywhere, so I can use those pull out beds.

Pull out bed + prescription drugs = happy flight

arac

Funkstard wrote:

My worst experience was when flying to Shannon this year before going onwards to Boston. The wind was so bad we came in to land twice and had to go back up because it was too strong. The turbulance was something else - it was the first time I felt properly scared on a flight, there was several times where the plane just dropped and my heart was in my mouth. Along with that, half the plane got airsick and the smell was absolutely repugnant. I had to mash my pillow in my face to get rid of the smell.

I think I would have died a slow death there!!
Don't really like flying but get on with it..always think that its just not natural for a big lump of metal to be up in the sky:eek:

Chopperdog

I love flying, even after a very scary incident a number of years ago. Flying from Bahrain to London we were forced into an emergency landing when the cabin filled up with smoke at 30,000 feet. O2 masks, crash positions the lot. Landed in Schipol to all the emercency services not knowing if we were going to make it or not. Scary is not the word folks, that day I really felt that I looked death in the face and got away with it.
Still love flying though and am doing my private pilots licence.
Sure, if your time is up there's damn all you can do about it!!!

Chavster

magpie wrote:

Its at the stage where its really pissing me off now, I wish I could be brainwashed or drugged Mr T style.

My mates sister is terrified of flying so she pays a visit to the doctor before the trip and he prescribes her deluxe strength valiums for the flight. It works for her.