Multiculturalism = a total crock of poo

Uthur

Even I, speaking as a complete lefty-looney, can see that multiculturalism is
a stupid idea. If you go to live in another country you accept that there
will be different social mores in that country that you have to abide by.

When you move to another country you have to play by their rules. An
Irish person wouldn't move to Iran and walk up the street half-naked or
bladdered drunk. Likewise, you can't travel half way around the world to
Ireland and act like you're still at home.

This means that certain things will not be accepted by the host
population here: circumcising your kids with a razor blade, beating them
with sticks, or refusing to give your seat on the bus to a heavily pregnant
or elderly woman, for example. And lots of other things besides.

Edit: I have heard liberals (even some of my friends) defend all of these things
on the grounds that they are acceptable in the perpetrators' native
cultures. I don't happen to agree

Maskhadov

personally im not in favour of mulitculturism. I think everyone should have their own culture but should be able to identify with Ireland and Irish culture and be able to call themselves Irish.

HelterSkelter

What's wrong with adapting aspects of other people's cultures. We do it already, look at all the Italian/Indian/Thai/Chinese/Leabanese restaurants around. By eating their food we are already accepting their culture. Look at all the idiots sitting outside coffee shops in the freezing cold thinking they are Italians/Spanish/French.

I don't see any problem with multiculturalism once the practice doesn't involve breaking the laws of the host country.

therecklessone

Uthur wrote:

This means that certain things will not be accepted by the host
population here: circumcising your kids with a razor blade, beating them
with sticks, or refusing to give your seat on the bus to a heavily pregnant
or elderly woman, for example. And lots of other things besides.

Very selective the way you chose all three.

Are you opposed to all circumcision, or just with a razor blade?

Do you oppose all forms of physical punishment for minors? Or just with sticks?

As for giving up your seat? Happen much around your way, does it? Cos my experience has been that its kill or be killed (regardless of age, sex, or nationality) pn ourpublic transport network).

simu

HelterSkelter wrote:

I don't see any problem with multiculturalism once the practice doesn't involve breaking the laws of the host country.

Same. These debates always become polarised though (yawn).

Hobbes

Uthur wrote:

If you go to live in another country you accept that there
will be different social mores in that country that you have to abide by.

You should tell that to all the Irish ex-pats that live in countries such as England, America, Singapore, etc.

or refusing to give your seat on the bus to a heavily pregnant
or elderly woman, for example.

I'm curious, what culture is that from then?

HelterSkelter

Hobbes wrote:

I'm curious, what culture is that from then?

Our very own local scumbag culture I think!

netwhizkid

I agree with OP, You integrate or get out, Most irish people abroad have integrated in whatever country they are in. Just look at the loud-mouths that start arriving during the summer, like the Irish in America are more "american" that americans themselves. Multiculturism is only thrash and if our own Irish culture and race is to survive we must preserve our identity and not be walked all over and rubbished by foreginers which will eventually lead to race riots ala France. It is all being caused by globalisation and trying to impose "Western" - American values on people that just don't want them. Like that is one of the main causes of conflict in the Middle East, Women choose to wear the veil and American values then suggest she is suppressed someway. McDonalds and "Can I get a bagel" Syndrome isn't helping either.

Hobbes

netwhizkid wrote:

You integrate or get out

Define integration though? The irish culture as it stands now gets a lot of it culture from other cultures. English culture for one, not to mention the US (due to TV/Movies).

Most irish people abroad have integrated in whatever country they are in.

Which is the same here.

Irish in America are more "american" that americans themselves.

Well the US is built on multiculturism, unless your talking about the Indian people as a comparison.

bonkey

Uthur wrote:

Even I, speaking as a complete lefty-looney, can see that multiculturalism is a stupid idea.

When multiculturalism is cast as a complete acceptance of all aspects of all cultures, then clearly it is a stupid and unworkable idea.

That, however, is not what multiculturalism is generally understood by those who support it...at least by my understanding.

Its a bit like seeing those who oppose restrictive immigration/asylum laws as being in support of an open-door policy, really - casting (or attempting to cast) the issue as a binary "all or nothing" issue, when in reality its nothing but a myriad differing shades of grey.

Edit: I have heard liberals (even some of my friends) defend all of these things on the grounds that they are acceptable in the perpetrators' native cultures.

Not all (nor even most, I would say) liberals have this "anything goes, as long as its ok at home" attitude, however, and that distinction is noteworthy.

What always strikes me as funny is that when push comes to shove, opponents of multiculturalism generally don't see a need to make a huge fuss about cultures that aren't too dissimilar to ours. So multiculturalism is often just fine, as long as it excludes certain cultures.

The general argument in favour of multiculturalism is that we should not be unaccepting of something merely because it is different, but that this is all too often the case.

There are unpalatable aspects of every culture, true. Note, however, that I said every culture. This includes our own. You will generally find that our culture's / cultures' failings are more acceptable than those of immigrant cultures.

Multiculturalism is about integration. Its about acceptance. This is a two-way process. Multiculturalism has as little place for immigrant hate-mongers or criminals as it does for native ones.

netwhizkid wrote:

You integrate or get out, Most irish people abroad have integrated in whatever country they are in

There is a distinction between integration and abandoning your culture. Most Irish people I know have balanced being able to get along fine with the locals with still being Irish. I haven't abandoned my culture simply because its different. I haven't been expected to, nor have I been made feel unwelcome for not doing so.

It is all being caused by globalisation and trying to impose "Western" - American values on people that just don't want them.

I agree with the first half of this sentence.

I do not think, however, that its in any fair to suggest that imposing American values (as you put it) is a central part of why problems with multiculturalism are being caused. I can't see how Irish peoples objection to immigration bringing various foreign cultures to our shores would suddenly evaporate if Western/US values weren't being imposed.

jc

cyclopath2001

netwhizkid wrote:

if our own Irish culture and race is to survive we must preserve our identity and not be walked all over and rubbished by foreginers

How do you define our own culture, race and identity?

Should we reject all foreign influence and go back to our pre-Christian ways?

Does our culture include the capacity to accept law-abiding people who are different from us?

I think multi-culturalism is just marketing lingo for what many of us would regard as 'common decency'.

ratboy

i think we should be developed enough as a society to embrace different cultures while at the same time, opposing violations of human rights that might come with those cultures..

grubber

bonkey wrote:

Multiculturalism is about integration.

No It's the opposite. Multiculturalism was invented by those left-wing politically correct brainboxes who came to the realization that elements of some immigrant cultures have no intention of integrating. Not only do they believe that their faith and way of life are superior to ours, but they are encouraged by some of their religious leaders to consider us as no better than dogs or monkeys.

bonkey

grubber wrote:

No It's the opposite. Multiculturalism was invented by those left-wing politically correct brainboxes who came to the realization that elements of some immigrant cultures have no intention of integrating.

I see the misunderstanding.

We understand different things by integration.

I'm talking about integration of cultures, not individuals "melding in" to our own culture and conforming to it. This should not suggest in any way casting away of all that is different on either side.

jc

Hobbes

Actually Grubber AFAIR Multiculturalism is the joining/merging of cultures. Not one being absorbed into the other.

grubber

Hobbes wrote:

Actually Grubber AFAIR Multiculturalism is the joining/merging of cultures. Not one being absorbed into the other.

Not sure what AFAIR means. But I never said Multiculturalism is being absorbed within each other. In fact the more vocal adherents of MC talk about "celebrating diversity".
I wonder if these same people would have celebrated segregation in Alabama, or Apartheid in S. Africa?

Hobbes

AFAIR = As far as I remember.

You may not of said it, but that is basically what you want. How does that make you different from the loonies on the other side?

Segregation is not multiculturism neither is celebrating diversity.

biko

Uthur wrote:

Even I, speaking as a complete lefty-looney, can see that multiculturalism is
a stupid idea. If you go to live in another country you accept that there
will be different social mores in that country that you have to abide by.

When you move to another country you have to play by their rules. An
Irish person wouldn't move to Iran and walk up the street half-naked or
bladdered drunk. Likewise, you can't travel half way around the world to
Ireland and act like you're still at home.

This means that certain things will not be accepted by the host
population here: circumcising your kids with a razor blade, beating them
with sticks, or refusing to give your seat on the bus to a heavily pregnant
or elderly woman, for example. And lots of other things besides.

Edit: I have heard liberals (even some of my friends) defend all of these things
on the grounds that they are acceptable in the perpetrators' native
cultures. I don't happen to agree

Yes throw them all out, damn Australians:mad: They come over here, take the women and all the barjobs. At least they could make an effort to speak so we can understand.

cyclopath2001

grubber wrote:

Not only do they believe that their faith and way of life are superior to ours, but they are encouraged by some of their religious leaders to consider us as no better than dogs or monkeys.

It wouldn't be much of a faith if it didn't give its followers a smug sense of superiority, but the Mormons are decent enough people, I'm sure they'ed make good neighbours.

grubber

Hobbes wrote:

AFAIR = As far as I remember.

You may not of said it, but that is basically what you want. How does that make you different from the loonies on the other side?

Segregation is not multiculturism neither is celebrating diversity.

Hobbes, Thank you for explaining AFAIR to me. now would you be so kind as to re-phrase the rest of your posting. I cant make head, orse, or tail of it.

billy the squid

please tell me you are being sarcastic!

netwhizkid wrote:

I agree with OP, You integrate or get out, Most irish people abroad have integrated in whatever country they are in. Just look at the loud-mouths that start arriving during the summer, like the Irish in America are more "american" that americans themselves.

Horse****e. the first thing the irish do when they go to america is find an "irish" pub. If the Irish intergrated as well as you claim there would be no such thing as the Irish pub anywhere in the world except ireland.

Multiculturism is only thrash and if our own Irish culture and race is to survive we must preserve our identity and not be walked all over and rubbished by foreginers which will eventually lead to race riots ala France.

There is a difference between multiculturalism and what occoured in france. In france, people from foreign countries were segregated and not given equal opportunities when it came to employment. It was subtle racism rather than multiculturalism that lead to the riots in France. I would see multiculturalism as everyone haveing equal opportunities regardless of their race, colour or traditions

It is all being caused by globalisation and trying to impose "Western" - American values on people that just don't want them. Like that is one of the main causes of conflict in the Middle East,

The main cause of conflict in the middle east is the colinization of parts of palestinian lands by israel, again, those of different cultures to the israelis are being segregated, not intergrated into society, with "peace walls" and checkpoints and the like.

Zombrex

Uthur wrote:

Even I, speaking as a complete lefty-looney, can see that multiculturalism is a stupid idea.

I assume this means you will calling for pepole not to go see any UK or American films, watching any imported television shows, refusing to listen to any imported music, not to play any Japanise or American video games and burning all our books by non-Irish authors ...

after all we don't want our culture tainted by anything foreign and strange ...

Karl Hungus

You know, I'm all for preserving out culture and heritage, but I think people are forgetting one of the largest threats to this is Globalization. Big faceless coprorations are the problem here, in my honest opinion. Christ, look at the world we're living in! Fly anywhere in the world, chances are there's McDonalds everywhere... How's that for cultural diversity?

And lets not forget the bunch of sell-out cowboys who are running the show either. Hey, lets plow through Tara Skryne valley! Who cares if it's important to some people, it'll save some money on our motorway! Hey, lets sell out our neutrality to Dubya Bush! Who cares if it betrays just about every sane person in the country as long as Bertie gets his 30 pieces?

That, ladies and gentlemen, is what's going to ruin our culture and heritage. Not Multiculturalism.

Sorry... I'm just in ranting mode.

HelterSkelter

Karl Hungus wrote:

You know, I'm all for preserving out culture and heritage, but I think people are forgetting one of the largest threats to this is Globalization...

Did you intentionally spell Globalisation the American bastardised way?!!!

Karl Hungus

HelterSkelter wrote:

Did you intentionally spell Globalisation the American bastardised way?!!!

Wow! I didn't think anyone would pick up on that!

therecklessone

netwhizkid wrote:

Multiculturism is only thrash and if our own Irish culture and race is to survive we must preserve our identity and not be walked all over and rubbished by foreginers which will eventually lead to race riots ala France.

The problem in France was integration!

Officially everyone is French. Unofficially, your name, your neighbourhood, or simply your appearance is enough to disqualify you from employment. The French government does not recoginse ethnic groups as distinct units, all are French. And so, the ethnic make up of ghettoised neighbourhoods is ignored, for why point out that everyone living in apartment block is of Arab origin when they are French?

The result?

Unemployment among people of French origin is 9.2%. Among those of foreign origin, the figure is 14% - even after adjusting for educational qualifications.

Source

grubber

bonkey wrote:

I see the misunderstanding.

We understand different things by integration.

I'm talking about integration of cultures, not individuals "melding in" to our own culture and conforming to it. This should not suggest in any way casting away of all that is different on either side.

jc

Oh right. You mean like in Norway?
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0630/p09s01-coop.html

catholicireland

In 20 or 30 years time Ireland will really see what multiculturalism is like. We have only been experiencing it for a short period now. I think the big difference between us and the US and UK is that we have such a small population! This immigration will bring a massive change in this country. Thats why I think immigration should stop.

billy the squid

catholicireland wrote:

In 20 or 30 years time Ireland will really see what multiculturalism is like. We have only been experiencing it for a short period now. I think the big difference between us and the US and UK is that we have such a small population! This immigration will bring a massive change in this country. Thats why I think immigration should stop.

and how do you propose we fill the shortfall in employment if we stop immigration?

There is nothing to be gained by blocking people who want to live here and work here from doing so.

Memnoch

billy the squid wrote:

and how do you propose we fill the shortfall in employment if we stop immigration?

There is nothing to be gained by blocking people who want to live here and work here from doing so.

those nasty foreigners might not be catholic and then catholireland would stop being 88% catholic and maybe become 80% catholic, and that is a risk not worth any economic gains!

Actually the poles are more catholic than the Irish.
They go to church.

magpie

Ein Recih Ein Volk Ein Fuehrer and all that...

Snickers Man

grubber wrote:

Multiculturalism was invented by those left-wing politically correct brainboxes

That's bollox. The people who talk about 'multiculturalism' as if it's a new phenomenon tend to be those on the right. Especially the new right who are so tied up with the fantasy of the ubiquitously benign effects of market forces that they want to subjugate to them everything else--national boundaries, diverse tastes, unique identities--all these must go in the interests of a vast homogenising globalised market.

Multiculturalism: Bad! causes fragmented markets and diminishes opportunities for untrammeled growth.

Monoculturalism: Good! creates level playing field for the big boys to drive their tanks over gobbling up everything in their sights.

That's the global view. Now in the context of peoples of differing race, creed, ethnicity etc living in the same place the word 'multiculturalism' is being used, by the right, as a pejorative term for what we used to call 'pluralism' or even more basically: 'tolerance'.

Have a look who complains most about multiculturalism. It tends to be the loony right people. Myers in Ireland. O'Reilly in America. The likes of Pim Fortuyn's gang in Holland.

The history of mankind has been one of people migrating and mingling from one region,country or continent to another and coming to terms with the pain of accomodating the differences with others. To attempt to denigrate efforts to tolerate each other's differences by coining a new term for a very old phomenon is dishonest, stupid, petty, self seeking, shortsighted and dangerous.

You talk about integration. What would you make of a group of people whose religion is inherited genetically and automatically, who have a very strong taboo about marrying outside the 'faith' even given that the faith is question is mosty a heriditary one, observe religious ceremonies in their own ancient language, have strict dietary laws which set them apart from many of the cultures in which they live as a minority, and have a special allegiance to the one country in the world in which their co-religionists are a majority?

Should these people drop the aspects of their culture that make them different or clear off to their own country? Is their 'failure to integrate' fully evidence of an alien culture that poses a threat to the well being of the majority indigenous cultures among which they live? Does their very determination to retain their separate culture justify attempts by others to evict or assimilate them?

If you answer yes to any of the above, congratulations: You're an Anti-Semite.

Multiculturalism is a silly word. Just replace it with the word tolerance and then try and argue against it.

Zombrex

catholicireland wrote:

In 20 or 30 years time Ireland will really see what multiculturalism is like. We have only been experiencing it for a short period now.

We have been experiencing multiculturalism for years, from the very first Hollywood movie to the first BBC broadcasts, to the first Beatles hit. And every wave of multi-culturalism was denounced by those who fear it.

Our culture today is un-recongisable from 60 years ago (as our grandparents never cease to stop reminding us).

Did it destroy some of our native culture? Possibly (how many foreign shows on RTE vs home grown drama .. home grown music vs imported music .. home grown film vs imported film). Did anyone care in the long run? Nope.

This is just another form/wave of multiculturalism, exposure to a new set of cultures that are as strange to us as the American culture whould have been to our grand parents. We will get over it, life goes on

magpie

Our native culture is terrible anyway - give me a nice curry over Boxtie or Coddle any day of the week. Pass the popodoms.

bonkey

Snickers Man wrote:

Multiculturalism is a silly word. Just replace it with the word tolerance and then try and argue against it.

Careful what you wish for.

Liberal is rapidily becoming a dirty word from what I can tell. You'd find it hard to tell from looking at a dictionary.

Snickers Man

bonkey wrote:

Careful what you wish for.

Liberal is rapidily becoming a dirty word from what I can tell. You'd find it hard to tell from looking at a dictionary.

Take your point. But then I don't think Liberal was ever regarded as being a universally favourable term. It was always an alternative to those calling themselves Conservatives. Or Labour, or whatever.

But somebody calling themselves the 'Intolerant' party would probably start with a pretty big credibility deficit.

DadaKopf

Hey, how about this: I don't care. If everybody didn't care, maybe everyone would get along better. OH NO! THEY'RE TAKING OVER!!! Me arse.

Irish culture is what people practise, and if we all practised tolerance, openness, instead of sniping about a byword for exclusion, we'll never attain equality.

Step one for people in Ireland: be nice. Step two for Irish citizens - the legal term - is to vote out politicians who are introducing legislation (far beyond just Immigration legislation) that prevents an egalitarian environment in Ireland from developing.

It's down to people in Ireland themselves creating a culture of dignity and respect in their everyday interactions with people that'll solve the 'problem' of pluralism (I prefer 'pluralism'), but the state has a vital role, as an arm of the people, to use instruments at its disposal from making this whole process of localised globalisation much easier, and fun!

grubber

Snickers Man wrote:

That's bollox. The people who talk about 'multiculturalism' as if it's a new phenomenon tend to be those on the right. Especially the new right who are so tied up with the fantasy of the ubiquitously benign effects of market forces that they want to subjugate to them everything else--national boundaries, diverse tastes, unique identities--all these must go in the interests of a vast homogenising globalised market.

Multiculturalism: Bad! causes fragmented markets and diminishes opportunities for untrammeled growth.

Monoculturalism: Good! creates level playing field for the big boys to drive their tanks over gobbling up everything in their sights.

Drivel. If these mythical people are so bound up with market forces that they are prepared to subjugate all then they will also latch onto the ever-so-trendy concept of multiculturalism. Anything for a quick buck.

Snickers Man wrote:

That's the global view. Now in the context of peoples of differing race, creed, ethnicity etc living in the same place the word 'multiculturalism' is being used, by the right, as a pejorative term for what we used to call 'pluralism' or even more basically: 'tolerance'.

Have a look who complains most about multiculturalism. It tends to be the loony right people. Myers in Ireland. O'Reilly in America. The likes of Pim Fortuyn's gang in Holland.

.....Theo Van Gogh?

Snickers Man wrote:

The history of mankind has been one of people migrating and mingling from one region,country or continent to another and coming to terms with the pain of accomodating the differences with others. To attempt to denigrate efforts to tolerate each other's differences by coining a new term for a very old phomenon is dishonest, stupid, petty, self seeking, shortsighted and dangerous.

Hang on there. Who is coining this "new term"? As I said above Multiculturalism was invented by those loony-left, limp wristed liberal politically correct brainboxes who came to the realization that elements of some immigrant cultures have no intention of integrating.

I think my definition is more accurate than most I've seen.

Snickers Man wrote:

Multiculturalism is a silly word. Just replace it with the word tolerance and then try and argue against it.

At last we agree about something

grubber

All part of life's rich (Multicultural) tapestry

http://www.lse.co.uk/ShowStory.asp?story=WU2219945O&news_headline=convicted_murderer_guilty_of_killing_sisters_boyfriend

billy the squid

grubber wrote:

All part of life's rich (Multicultural) tapestry

http://www.lse.co.uk/ShowStory.asp?story=WU2219945O&news_headline=convicted_murderer_guilty_of_killing_sisters_boyfriend

for every foreign murder you find I'm sure i could find five irish ones
http://www.rte.ie/news/2003/1220/keanek.html

how is posting such an article reflective on the issue of multiculturalism though.

grubber

billy the squid wrote:

for every foreign murder you find I'm sure i could find five irish ones
http://www.rte.ie/news/2003/1220/keanek.html

how is posting such an article reflective on the issue of multiculturalism though.

5 Irish murders for every foreign one. My God, and the Gardai are still unarmed.

Merciful hour!

lazydaisy

billy the squid wrote:

Horse****e. the first thing the irish do when they go to america is find an "irish" pub. If the Irish intergrated as well as you claim there would be no such thing as the Irish pub anywhere in the world except ireland.

Yes, and NYC Irish bars are now filled with Irish talking about what a crap country American is and how stupid Americans are and what capitalists pigs they are and poor Saddham.... oh but isnt it great being here for the Christmas shopping....

They used to integrate [sort of] and now they take American money and look their pale freckled noses down at americans even when in America.

WK - that's true what you're saying about mulitculturalism being around for years with the presence of imported British and American culture, but the three nations share a history and a language together so it may not have the same feeling of having to compromise so much. Just as an example, when you no longer have Christmas off as a national holiday but have lets say Yom Kippur or Ramadan than you might feel it a little more.

When you see Asians, Arabs, and or Poles, other Europeans, Romanians, Africans and others representative of the developing and changing population in the Dail then you know you have acheived integration.

cyclopath2001

lazydaisy wrote:

Just as an example, when you no longer have Christmas off as a national holiday but have lets say Yom Kippur or Ramadan than you might feel it a little more.

Ramadan is not a holiday, it's a time of fasting, like Lent. Perhaps you mean Eid Al Fitr? I know many Muslims who celebrate Christmas with their Christian friends.....

lazydaisy wrote:

When you see Asians, Arabs, and or Poles, other Europeans, Romanians, Africans and others representative of the developing and changing population in the Dail then you know you have acheived integration.

Hopefully, they'll replace FF & the PDs.....

Zombrex

lazydaisy wrote:

They used to integrate [sort of] and now they take American money and look their pale freckled noses down at americans even when in America.

Don't you mean give America money, if they are over shopping at Christmas?

lazydaisy wrote:

WK - that's true what you're saying about mulitculturalism being around for years with the presence of imported British and American culture, but the three nations share a history and a language together so it may not have the same feeling of having to compromise so much.

They share a lanuage but thats about it, Irish culture in the 30,40,50 was miles away from American culture. We only think we are quite similar now because we have had years and years of multiculturalism washing on to our shores.

In 50 years our grandkids will probably be saying "What was the big deal, we are very similar to Middle Eastern people" Differences are only highlighted when they are strange and new, once you get used to them they don't seem like such a big deal. For example, British people were horrified when they found out how Americans actually talked in the 30 thanks to sound in the cinema. It was a massive issue. When rock and roll started being imported from America it was denounced as the final blow to culture in Ireland. Now all that sounds ridiculously silly

Even in modern times since the boom in imported workers from Europe, African and especially Asia people have been crying "Soon Irish culture will be second place in Ireland" ... yet this dooms day situation is always, strangley, just a few years off. People decrying foreign cultures entering Ireland are very clever never to actually mention a theory on when any of this bad stuff is going to happen, and that way they can never be proved wrong because it is always sometime in the future ... when is Islam law going to be introduced to Ireland?, how soon very soon! .. when are we going to have to learn Arabic?, soon very soon! .. when are all going to have to pause to pray to Meca?, oh soon very soon! They have learnt very well from the politics that the best way to keep people worried about a situation is to make sure it is always just about to happen. In reality we have had huge increases in other cultures living and working in Ireland, 15 years ok it was out of the ordinary if I was served by a Asian person in McDonalds, now I am surprised if I am served by an Irish person. But I am still waiting for all the terrible things multiculturalism is supposed to bring to happen.

lazydaisy wrote:

Just as an example, when you no longer have Christmas off as a national holiday but have lets say Yom Kippur or Ramadan than you might feel it a little more.

Won't make any difference to me .. a holiday is a holiday

lazydaisy wrote:

When you see Asians, Arabs, and or Poles, other Europeans, Romanians, Africans and others representative of the developing and changing population in the Dail then you know you have acheived integration.

I look forward to the day

mike65

lazydaisy wrote:

When you see Asians, Arabs, and or Poles, other Europeans, Romanians, Africans and others representative of the developing and changing population in the Dail then you know you have acheived integration.

If we could have more women and fewer school teachers that would be a start.

I belive some local councils already have ethinic minorities as members (and Clare has already had an ethnic Indian TD remember Dr Moosajee Bhamjee?) so over the next 10-15 years I'd expect to see a few in the Dail.

Mike.

saado

I don't particularily think that the problem here is multiculturalism as such, nor the fact that people from other cultures are even coming here. It's that they don't accept our own values but continue to expect that we respect theirs. It's often more a religious problem, where people come here from countries where they live in a complete theocracy, or where the laws/morals are governed by religion, much like Ireland was up until recently, and still is to a certain extent. Ireland is now, for all intents and purposes, a secular state, and when people come here from other counties, they should adhere to the laws and customs as much as possible, particularily where religion is concerned, let's be fair, if someone rolls out a prayer mat at work and goes through the daily ritual(i don't know if this even happens, but i'm just giving an example), we're to respect this as his "culture", however, if I were to take out rosary beads and start saying the rosary for 25minutes every day at work, I'd be fired or just told to cop on and get back to work.

Same with the traditional dress, if someone wants to wear the clothes, then that's all well and good, but it's not fair in a situation like a school or an office where everyone is expected to conform to a certain dress code, if someone is allowed to look different because their culture is different. If a woman were to travel to a muslim country and marry into a family with traditional values, then she'd be expected to conform, why is it so hard to ask that they conform to our own standards. Same as if an irishman were to go there and dare to drink alcohol, he'd be just as severely punished as anyone else would.

Schools are no different, i think that a catholic school should be allowed to teach religion from a catholic perspective, if you don't like it, go to a different school. Preferential treatment for children who may be muslim or jewish or whatever is a joke, fair enough, state schools should have no religion classes, but if you go to a private catholic school, then put up or go to the school that will acommodate you. I know you may say this is "segregation" or whatever, but the Catholic church owes nothing to people who don't want to participate in their religion, i'd hardly expect the same from a muslim or islamic school. They're there to teach the religion to people, if you don't like it, don't go to the schools/churches or whatever.
Anyway, my point if you can fathom it from the incoherent mess that was the previous three paragraphs, is this: Religion should be left at home or at your place of worship, not work, not school, regardless of what religion you practise.

mike65

Ireland is now, for all intents and purposes, a secular state,

Not true, if it were the schools sector would'nt be dominated by the Catholic faith to the tune of 98%.

i think that a catholic school should be allowed to teach religion from a catholic perspective, if you don't like it, go to a different school

See above

Ireland needs to become a secular state before it can be a multicultural one.

Mike

dathi1

The only place in the world I see multiculturalism working is in Singapore...and that's a dictatorship. Before that there was mass murder and inter ethnic riots. After that yes I agree its over rated. ...oh yes and Switzerland.....sorry jc

grubber

dathi1 wrote:

The only place in the world I see multiculturalism working is in Singapore...and that's a dictatorship. Before that there was mass murder and inter ethnic riots. After that yes I agree its over rated. ...oh yes and Switzerland.....sorry jc

Dathi1,
Would you agree another example of multiculturalism working was Yugoslavia before the death of Tito? If so then I think we might be on to something.

Macmorris

grubber wrote:

Would you agree another example of multiculturalism working was Yugoslavia before the death of Tito?

There's no need to look half way around the world for what we can easily find at home. We have a perfect example of the joys of multiculturalism in the north-eastern part of our own country.