Do I need to fill out a form?

Firewalkwithme

I was christened, made my communion and did my confirmation before I later delclared myself to be atheist. Therefore, I would assume that I am officially still a member of the Roman Catholic Church. If I wanted to officially resign from being a member of the catholic church, is there any particular procedure I should follow? Do they have a department that deals with such matters or do I just have to decide that I am now an atheist and it's a done deal?

whiskeyman

Have you removed the tracking chip?

Nowt you have to do to jump ship from your religion.
It's a done deal.
It's not on any official documents (Passports, Birth Cert), so you dont have to worry

Firewalkwithme

I would have quite enjoyed filling out some kind of form, maybe with a customer satisfaction survey at the end.

Please state your primary reasons for wanting to leave the Catholic Curch and condemn your soul to eternal damnation:

Note: Tick all that apply.

[] - I have decided to join another religion (if so please specify which).

[] - I believe in that wacky evolution stuff.

[] - I have been abused by a member(s) of the clergy.

[] - I found out about your 'big secret' and I know why you don't let priests marry.

etc.

whiskeyman

Despatch wrote:

I would have quite enjoyed filling out some kind of form, maybe with a customer satisfaction survey at the end.

Please state your primary reasons for wanting to leave the Catholic Curch and condemn your soul to eternal damnation:

Note: Tick all that apply.

[] - I have decided to join another religion (if so please specify which).

[] - I believe in that wacky evolution stuff.

[] - I have been abused by a member(s) of the clergy.

[] - I found out about your 'big secret' and I know why you don't let priests marry.

etc.

LOL!! nice one
Perhaps sent it to the Archbishop and see if they reply...

NeilJ

You might want to have a look at this just for some alternative opinions

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=258984

Neil

Firewalkwithme

NeilJ wrote:

You might want to have a look at this just for some alternative opinions

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=258984

Neil

Thanks Neil, I might just send a letter off to them and see what response I get.

Dades

Despatch wrote:

Thanks Neil, I might just send a letter off to them and see what response I get.

TBH, Despatch, unless you were ticking option 3 or 4 on your "hypothetical" form, I don't know why you'd bother.

You've already left in your head, right? Isn't that what counts?

Tar.Aldarion

I have made you said questionaire and I will answer it myself

1.Do you believe there is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three coeternal Persons?
I don't know.
2. Do you accept the death of Jesus Christ on Calvary as the atoning sacrifice for your sins and believe that by God’s grace through faith in His shed blood you are saved from sin and its penalty?
I don't know.
3. Do you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and personal Saviour believing that God, in Christ, has forgiven your sins and given you a new heart, and do you renounce the sinful ways of the world?
I don't know.
4. Do you accept by faith the righteousness of Christ, your Intercessor in the heavenly sanctuary, and accept His promise of transforming grace and power to live a loving, Christ-centered life in your home and before the world?
I don't know.
5. Do you believe that the Bible is God’s inspired Word, the only rule of faith and practice for the Christian? Do you covenant to spend time regularly in prayer and Bible study?
I don't know.
6.Do you accept the Ten Commandments as a transcript of the character of God and a revelation of His will? Is it your purpose by the power of the indwelling Christ to keep this law, including the fourth commandment, which requires the observance of the seventh day of the week as the Sabbath of the Lord and the memorial of Creation?
I don't know.
7.Do you look forward to the soon coming of Jesus and the blessed hope when “this mortal shall . . . put on immortality”? As you prepare to meet the Lord, will you witness to His loving salvation by using your talents in personal soul-winning endeavor to help others to be ready for His glorious appearing?
I don't know.
8.Do you accept the biblical teaching of spiritual gifts and believe that the gift of prophecy is one of the identifying marks of the remnant church?
I don't know.
9.Do you believe in church organization? Is it your purpose to worship God and to support the church through your tithes and offerings and by your personal effort and influence?
I don't know.
10.Do you believe that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit; and will you honor God by caring for it, avoiding the use of that which is harmful; abstaining from all unclean foods; from the use, manufacture, or sale of alcoholic beverages; the use, manufacture, or sale of tobacco in any of its forms for human consumption; and from the misuse of or trafficking in narcotics or other drugs?
I don't know.
11.Do you know and understand the fundamental Bible principles as taught by the Seventh-day Adventist Church? Do you purpose, by the grace of God, to fulfill His will by ordering your life in harmony with these principles?
I don't know.
12.Do you accept the New Testament teaching of baptism by immersion and desire to be so baptized as a public expression of faith in Christ and His forgiveness of your sins?
I don't know.
13.Do you accept and believe that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is the remnant church of Bible prophecy and that people of every nation, race, and language are invited and accepted into its fellowship? Do you desire to be a member of this local congregation of the world church?
I don't know.

Firewalkwithme

The Atheist wrote:

TBH, Despatch, unless you were ticking option 3 or 4 on your "hypothetical" form, I don't know why you'd bother.

You've already left in your head, right? Isn't that what counts?

You're quite right, what use is a piece of paper confirming I don't belong to an organisation I don't believe in and want nothing to do with.

To think, all this time I've spent worrying that I might be a catholic, when I really was an atheist after all

whiskeyman

Despatch wrote:

To think, all this time I've spent worrying that I might be a catholic, when I really was an atheist after all

Thank God for that......





eh

Firewalkwithme

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

I have made you said questionaire.....

My answer to each is no.

Just wait until I start my thread about whether or not to get my child christened, what a problem, but thats for later...or tomorrow....

capistrano

When you renounce the religion you were born into you are an Apostate.

Thankfully being an apostate in Ireland carries no serious penalty. Unlike in Iran and Afghanastan (under Taliban at least), and probalby a number of other islamic countries, where being an apostate is punishable by death!

I know how you all like links to back up asertions, so linky.

MrJoeSoap

I'm an Apostatic Agnostic so, is that the correct terminology?

Say it ten times fast.

TakeDown247

You might find this site interesting
http://www.apostasie.org/english/index.php

Tells you and gives you a form to send off to get your name removed from
the Church's records and the address to send it off to
I've allready done it myself and got unbaptised got a letter back saying i'm no longer on their records, you might want to write to where you where christened as they record they as well im still a christian but not catholic

pH

Despatch wrote:

I was christened, made my communion and did my confirmation before I later delclared myself to be atheist. Therefore, I would assume that I am officially still a member of the Roman Catholic Church. If I wanted to officially resign from being a member of the catholic church, is there any particular procedure I should follow?

You probably should register

http://www.iamanatheist.com/

Rev Hellfire

I'm always curious as to the motivation behind such 'I want to officially resign from being a member of the catholic church'. I just don't see the point other than to give a kind of a two fingered salute. Why would anyone feel the need to do it? What practical gain is there in it ?

Dades

Rev Hellfire wrote:

I just don't see the point other than to give a kind of a two fingered salute.

That would seems to be the main reason alright.
Or a "closure" thing.

Asiaprod

The Atheist wrote:

That would seems to be the main reason alright.
Or a "closure" thing.

Ther may be three other reasons:
1. The person in question has taken action and made a dedicated commitment in writing that they no longer wish to be associated.
2. The official church records if audited would show a decrease in membership.
3. The vatican, if they keep abreast of this kind of thing, will have to face facts that people are leaving, and its official.

TakeDown247

If you get your name off the Catholic Church records
when you die would they still give you a Catholic Funeral or will they refuse as you where not Catholic?

I've got my name removed and don't want a Catholic Funeral you see
but does getting your name removed fix this or will I have to make a will?
I'm thinking yes but not 100percent sure so if someone knows you sure could you let me know thanks

Rev Hellfire

TakeDown247 wrote:

If you get your name off the Catholic Church records
when you die would they still give you a Catholic Funeral or will they refuse as you where not Catholic?

I've got my name removed and don't want a Catholic Funeral you see
but does getting your name removed fix this or will I have to make a will?
I'm thinking yes but not 100percent sure so if someone knows you sure could you let me know thanks

Since its not the church that arrange your burial I would assume those that execute your will decide. Keep in mind they dont actually have to follow your wishes if my memory serves me correct, so you may be having a christian burial regardless. I'm sure some of the more legally minded posters can correct me if I'm wrong.

But you do highlight a interesting question, are there any non-religious burial grounds, any I can think of are all associated with a particular religion. I'm assuming having broken away from religion you'll not be wishing to be buried on religious ground.

Also on a side note is it illegal to scatter ash ?

Dades

I'm pretty sure your next of kin gets possession of your remains - and the right to do with them what they wish.

Obviously they can't contravene litter or dumping laws, but it would be a hard-nosed warden that would stop you spreading someones ashes. Unless of course it was somewhere that they wouldn't disperse without a mess.

Asiaprod

The Atheist wrote:

I'm pretty sure your next of kin gets possession of your remains - and the right to do with them what they wish.

That is correct

Obviously they can't contravene litter or dumping laws, but it would be a hard-nosed warden that would stop you spreading someones ashes. Unless of course it was somewhere that they wouldn't disperse without a mess.

Choose a sensible place where you want them scattered and then rely on your next of kin to do the job correctly. In Japan cremation is the norm and a body does not leave a lot of ash. I have been to many cremations so I do know this to be fact.

TakeDown247

Thanks for info
I don't mind a christian funeral, just not catholic
i've got my name removed from their member records
just I thought you had to be catholic to have a catholic funeral
but as i'm not no more hopefully they will say no

aidan24326

Is there any law on burying someone in a place other than a graveyard? Can you just be buried in a private field that you own? How about in the garden? In the forest? I would sooner be buried in the ground than cremated, not sure why but I just would. Ideally I'd like my body sent off into outer space to drift away at it's leisure, but that doesn't seem very likely. (and of course some star trekking aliens might find my body, take me to the planet zvsgfxds and reanimate me) Though I might be asking a bit much, so anyone know what's the rules on burial in general?

Dades

aidan24326 wrote:

Is there any law on burying someone in a place other than a graveyard?

I'm pretty sure there are bye-laws about burying people.

There are issues like drainage into the water table and future development to into account. My belief would be you need to apply to have someone interred, or to have your own piece of land declared a private cemetary.

Probably tough to get in a typical semi-detached house.

Schuhart

TakeDown247 wrote:

If you get your name off the Catholic Church records
when you die would they still give you a Catholic Funeral or will they refuse as you where not Catholic?

To be honest, I doubt if your family turned up with a coffin that they'd be turned away. Bear in mind, there was a time when the Catholic Church refused to bury people who had committed suicide. There was some kind of reasoning like they had sinned by rejecting the gift of life. But in recent years they do, on the grounds that you might have repented of your sin at the moment of death. Presumably the same logic could be applied to an of apostasy.

I understood that Baptism was permanent and that in the Church's eyes I would always simply be regarded as a Catholic who had gone astray. Equally, if a priest ceases to believe, I understand their line is his ability to perform religious duties is unaffected. So I doubt if any organ of the Church would give a letter certifying you’ve left or, if they have, I’d be interesting in hearing how they word it. I'd expect a fudge.

Just to get some sense of perspective, Mormons actually retrospectively baptise their ancestors. There’s a way for the grandchildren to piss on your memory in exchange for the legacy of climate change – and there’s not a damn thing you can do about it.

aidan24326

Really is there any point to this? If you've rejected the Catholic faith in your own mind then that's all that matters. What exactly would you be 'resigning' from? The answer is nothing. You were inducted into the catholic religion at baptism, and had this reaffirmed at your confirmation.

But what were these events only meaningless charades anyway if you no longer believe in any of that stuff? I consider my baptism to have been an event where a guy in a robe poured some water on my head and mumbled a few largely meaningless words. And as for my communion and confirmation, equally meaningless and pointless events where I was taught to eat 'the body of christ' at one and I can't really even remember what the other was about.

My point is that to me these religious sacraments, baptism in particular, are the only ties I have with the Catholic Church, but I consider them so devoid of any meaning that to 'resign' from church membership would, to me, only serve to bestow a level of meaning on my 'catholic church membership' that I don't feel is warranted or deserved. I don't feel as though I was ever a 'member' to begin with. Once old enough to understand and make my own choices, I rejected what had been foisted upon me.

@Asiaprod- I agree it would be useful for statistical purposes if there were some way of officially gauging how many people were leaving the religious faith that they had been born into. But the Catholic Church themselves know that people are leaving in droves and they don't need an official headcount to tell them this. Dwindling church attendances, an almost total lack of new priests being ordained, scarcely a priest in the country under 50, nuns dying out completely. In 50 years time the Roman Catholic Church will quite possibly be all but irrelevant in Ireland, victims of their own pomposity and arrogance.

@Cartoonhead- If you yourself do not believe in Christianity then why christen your children? I would teach my children (dont have any yet) about the history of the different religions, what they mean etc., without foisting any one religion onto them, and when old enough to decide for themselves, if any of them decided that a particular religion was of interest and something that they'd like to pursue further then that would be their own choice to make. But I would also teach my children that one can live their life in the right way, with the right values without having to adhere to the principles of any organised religion. I would hope that to be enough.

Asiaprod

aidan24326 wrote:

My point is that to me these religious sacraments, baptism in particular, are the only ties I have with the Catholic Church, but I consider them so devoid of any meaning that to 'resign' from church membership would, to me, only serve to bestow a level of meaning on my 'catholic church membership' that I don't feel is warranted or deserved. I don't feel as though I was ever a 'member' to begin with. Once old enough to understand and make my own choices, I rejected what had been foisted upon me.

While I agree 100% with your take on it, I think many people would see some type of official document as real closure. I believe that to have some official means of gauging how many have left the religion, and how many people that religion really can claims to represent as followers, is a useful tool to be used when one one needs to fight the Church on matters of state. Ireland as I remember it was always controlled by the church and I for one do not believe that this is good for the country or the people. If the Church is no longer the dominant force then politicians can stop hiding behind religious baloney and start to really do some honest work for a change.

robindch

> I think many people would see some type of official document as real closure.

Yes, I agree. Not only would it allow a decent closure for the people concerned, but it might also help to make an institutional church which takes the people's support for granted, suspect that perhaps it shouldn't.

aidan24326

Asiaprod wrote:

Whie I agree 100% with your take on it, I think many people would see some type of official document as real closure. I believe that to have some official means of gauging how many have left the religion, and how many people that religion really can claims to represent as followers, is a useful tool to be used when one one needs to fight the Church on matters of state. Ireland as I remember it was always controlled by the church and I for one do not believe that this is good for the country or the people. If the Church is no longer the dominant force then politicians can stop hiding behind religious baloney and start to really do some honest work for a change.

Yeah I can see where you're coming from. I just wonder would there be enough people willing to do this for it to have any real impact? I feel (and hope) the church's influence will steadily decline anyway as more and more people turn away from organised religion, and even now they don't have quite the same clout that they would have had in our parents or grandparents time. However a complete removal of all church influence from political matters in Ireland is still a long way away.

I notice one poster wrote that the catholic church acknowledged his leaving but pointed out that 'he is still a christian'. How that could be I'm not sure. At your baptism, or christening, you become a christian as well as a catholic, so surely leaving catholicism should then mean that you are also no longer a christian?

If not then how do you renounce christianity in it's totality? Why don't we all try it so, this 'resigning' from the church, and see what happens. Now that I think of it I would be only too happy to inform the honchos of my decision to leave their disreputable organisation, if there is any official way of doing so. But who would I need to write to initially? Wonder if the Vatican website has an online form I can fill out? or maybe a 'click here to unsubscribe' link....

Schuhart

If I've ceased to subscribe, how the Church categorises this internally doesn't particularly matter.

Coming from this perspective, I've just a question really. What does the word 'official' mean in this in this context? I mean the whole institution is built on sand, so if some arm of it gives you a piece of paper to confirm that your damnation is assured, how does it have any more meaning than the piece of paper they would have given you to prove you had a seat booked in paradise?

I know my passport is official, because it allows me to gain entry to countries abroad. I know my driving licence is official, because it allows me to take a car out on the road. What would this 'official certificate' of leaving do for me?

Asiaprod

Schuhart wrote:

so if some arm of it gives you a piece of paper to confirm that your damnation is assured, how does it have any more meaning than the piece of paper they would have given you to prove you had a seat booked in paradise?

I think you are missing the point. The point is they would give it to you thereby accepting that you officially want to have nothing to do with them and that you can no longer be included in any of their statistics or can no longer accept that they have any power to intervene in any civil laws that effect your life. Heaven and hell have nothing to do with it.

Schuhart

I do feel the more I think about this, the more its a non-issue. So why am I still posting about it? I suppose because I reckon pursuit of wild fancy is a theist thing.

Its not as if the Church pursues us after we've left, or sends us junk mail offering us pocket calculators if we resubscribe. People leaving Islam might have more of an issue in principle, to the extent that strictly speaking in their setup you should be put to death for apostasy. But if you leave Roman Catholicism its pretty much a case of saying 'so long and thanks for all the ritualised cannibalism', with them responding 'well, we'll keep you on the books in case you change your mind.'

I'm probably bordering on being pedantic, but I found the points you made didn't really convince me that the idea had any content. (in fairness, I know you were probably just quickly jotting down a few things that a 'certificate' might do)

Asiaprod wrote:

The point is they would give it to you thereby accepting that you officially want to have nothing to do with them

But the most they can do is acknowledge that I've written to them saying I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore. They have no knowledge, skill or expertise that puts them in a better situation than me in judging the extent to which I want nothing to do with them. If I write a note to self saying 'I'm never going back again', it has far more meaning because at least I have some clue about how I feel.

Asiaprod wrote:

and that you can no longer be included in any of their statistics

In this jurisdiction, the census is surely the basis on which we count who belongs to what faith or none, so this seems a pure irrelevance. The only statistics you would expect the Church to have would be the number of babies they baptise and the numbers of people attending mass. There is no reason to reduce the first figure if I leave - its simply a fact I was baptised. I won't feature in Church attendance stats. So there's really no problem.

Asiaprod wrote:

or can no longer accept that they have any power to intervene in any civil laws that effect your life.

In other jurisdictions I understand that a portion of your tax will go to whatever is deemed to be your religion. Here, we don't. I'm not clear what civil power the Church exercises over me here.

marius

As far as I am aware in order to be 'officially' removed from the catholic church you have to be excommunicated. You can ask to be excommunicated (by writing to the local cardinal or something).

I would like to do it myself but im just too lazy, it really does not bother me that much. The main reason I would like to do it is so that christians are forced to stop quoting the crazy 2 Billion worshippers world wide.....kinda annoys me......

maitri

marius wrote:

As far as I am aware in order to be 'officially' removed from the catholic church you have to be excommunicated. You can ask to be excommunicated (by writing to the local cardinal or something).

You just have to write two lines to your local parish priest to ask him to remove you from their lists, because you are not a believer or whatever your reasons are.

In my case, it turned up that I – because of some mistake – had actually never been on the list. So the good pater wrote me in and out again to “get it right”. And I got a nice certificate that I am no longer a catholic. (But my mother says that I still am no matter what say the lists or certificate, because you can never stop being a Catholic. Well, well, I don’t care so much… But I am happy that I don’t have to defend the new Pope.) My old catholic friends have all been very nice and respect my choice.