A rant about what seemingly constitutes "Racism" these days.

Karl Hungus

Well, I was reading the proposed "Skanger Abuse Forum" on the forums forum, and the term "Racism" got tossed about, and I was going to post this little rant there, but unforunately, the thread was locked. Anyway, I think it's a decent enough point to merit a thread of it's own, so here's what I had to say... Enjoy:

Sparky_S wrote:

its racism at the end of the day

Why is everything racism these days? Racist this, racism that, racist them... And most of the time, it's got nothing to do with race whatsoever! It's beyond a joke.

Honestly, does joyriding all of a sudden make someone belong to another race? What about robbing mobile phones? Does that particular action genetically alter someone's DNA somehow? Likewise, does a peaked cap at a 90 degree angle suddenly make someone, oh I don't know, Native American or something? How about, if I went out, and got myself a sovereign ring, do I suddenly become non-indigenous to this part of the world? How does this happen? Is it magic!?

Look, "Skanger" is defined by actions. If some little 14 year old goes and torches a car for the fun of it, he's a skanger. If some arsehole threatens you with a syringe in order to relieve you of your mobile phone, he's a skanger. If a bunch of lads are hanging out in the centre of town, hurling abuse at passers by for the laugh and looking for a fight, they're skangers. It is these kind of destrucive, anti-social, and petty criminal acts that make the skanger. They do not belong to some new fangled "Skanger Race" or any such idiotic notion.

Bottom line is that to say it is racist to critisize skangers, is akin to say it's racist to critisize paedophiles. There is no "Skanger Race" just as there is no "Paedophile Race" and all this kind of "Racist" talk is doing, is bringing Political Correctness to ridiculous, outright barmy, altogether silly, and frankly quite retarded, new levels.

Person 1: "I don't like Paedophiles."
Person 2: "You're a racist!"
Person 2: "That's not a race, idiot."

Christ, with what constitutes racism is some people's eyes these day, I honestly think we're just one step away from this scenario here:

:v: "I don't like racists."
:mad: "You're a racist!"
:eek: "..."

Sparky

hey now your making me look bad

But reading over your post, you do make a good point, a skanger is a person who you say torches a car, joyrides etc etc. But as to the quote from me that you posted, i want to make it clear, it was in the general context of that forum.
Anyway would most people not think that with so many skangers around the place, that they have become a race of people?
I do understand that a paedophile isnt a race and being racist isnt really the term you would use against them, but i think its become a common word in todays language to describe ones feelings towards them.

Karl Hungus

Sparky_S wrote:

hey now your making me look bad

You did that all by yourself kiddo.

Seriously though, no offense, but you have to admit it's an extremely silly notion.

Lemming

KH for el presidente!!!

Dyr

Its not racism, but its usually prejudice. Scratch the surface and you'll find it has nothing to do with a persons action's but rather their appearance and accent.

The excuses people make for this mentality is just like the ones people wheel out for racism too. Odd that

Fey!

Nicely put. Isn't political correctness just gone stupid?

You can't even tell dumb people they're stupid anymore!

Pigman II

The way I look at it (and it's probably an over-generalisation on my part but) I don't think calling a scumbag a scumbag qualifys as racism because the way they go on is a lifestyle choice and not something predetermined. ie you don't choose to be born black/white, gay/straight, irish/english/american, upperclass/workingclass etc but going on like a complete scumbag and associating with like is a choice one make makes themself.

Also don't believe all that bull**** about 'environment' sociologists will try to tell you either. I grew up in a rough enough area and went to a tough school but at the same time I knew right from wrong and how to behave in public.

I guess to sum up if you judge someone on the basis of a biological/nationalistic/economic characteristic they have no choice in (or have by default) then it probably can be defined as racism, otherwise not and is just prejudice and generalisation.

Sparky

Karl Hungus wrote:

You did that all by yourself kiddo.

Seriously though, no offense, but you have to admit it's an extremely silly notion.

Its silly alright, but i have to admit, if someone told me i was racist towards a skanger, id tell them to STFU.

The jews are a race of people- Hitler gassed tons of them in concentration camps
The skanger will become a race of people- We shall hopefully do the same.



/oh my evil side is coming to surface

Lemming

Funnily enough, racism deals with matters of ... well ... "race".

Being an arsehole about somebody's gender/lifestyle (within reason, skangerism excluded), sexual preference, etc. is called "Discrimination", oddly enough.

And I still say KH for el presidente!!

Karl Hungus

Pigman II wrote:

Also don't believe all that bull**** about 'environment' sociologists will try to tell you either. I grew up in a rough enough area and went to a tough school but at the same time I knew right from wrong and how to behave in public.

Agreed. As a young fella, I grew up in Mervue, which was certainly far rougher than were I'm living now, and I would concur about knowing right from wrong, and how to behave in public.

Dyr

If someone with opeth in their sig ever becomes a presidential candidate you can rely on me to be lying in wait for 'em on a grassy knoll avec une sniper rifle. The greater good must be served :mad:

Karl Hungus

Lemming wrote:

And I still say KH for el presidente!!

Glad to know I have such a loyal following.

Seriously though, when I am in power (And it will happen), my first duty would be to give the public the power to force a politician out of office whenever they see fit. That way, if we have any idiots like Mary Harney farting away millions of €, she'd be on the next bus out of here.

Bambi wrote:

If someone with opeth in their sig ever becomes a presidential candidate you can rely on me to be lying in wait for 'em on a grassy knoll avec une sniper rifle. The greater good must be served :mad:

I find the notion that I would need to be taken out because I have Opeth in my sig offensive.
That's predjudice against people with Opeth sigs.
You should be ashamed of yourself.

TheBigLebowski

Who is suggesting that skangers are a race. They aren't. Just as travellers aren't a race. A social group or class but certainly not a race.

joe_chicken

Karl Hungus wrote:

Agreed. As a young fella, I grew up in Mervue, which was certainly far rougher than were I'm living now, and I would concur about knowing right from wrong, and how to behave in public.

I think people are too quick to use the word racist sometimes. They say "racism" in place of words like "prejudice" and "disscrimination"...

So, for an example, they may say that someone is racist against you for saying that you're a scumbag, cuz you come from a bad area: when they mean that people may discriminate against you for being from a bad area.

I dont think these people honestly think that scumbags are from a different race (although sometimes they seem to appear from a different species rather than race), they just think that judging people on the clothes they wear and places they come from is a bad thing to do

It's more a question of language than mind sets

Sparky

Karl Hungus wrote:

That way, if we have any idiots like Mary Harney farting away millions of €, she'd be on the next bus out of here.

She is the reason why the lift is broken in the government buildings.
Seriously
Irish lifts or pickerings, cant remember come out every day to fix it and chrge €500-€1000
And we pay for it.

But back on topic

Racism refers to the beliefs and practices that assume inherent and significant differences exist between the genetics of various groups of human beings; that assume these differences can be measured on a scale of "superior" to "inferior"; and that result in the social, political and economic advantage of one group in relation to others.

Ok got that. What we are dealing with here is racial prejudice

The belief that the character and abilities of individuals are correlated with their race is not necessarily racism, since this can be asserted without implying an inequality in value. The application of this belief in dealing with members of that race, especially with little regard for variations within "races"

And like said above discrimination.

Thankyou Wiki.

Dyr

Karl Hungus wrote:

I find the notion that I would need to be taken out because I have Opeth in my sig offensive.
That's predjudice against people with Opeth sigs.
You should be ashamed of yourself.

Yup. EXTREME prejudice, to misquote homer


*steady's sights*

Dave!

Yeah I didn't read the whole thing, but I got the idea, and I've been saying it for ages! I'd say something like "I hate scumbags" or "I hate skangers" to my girlfriend, and she'd be like "you shouldn't generalise like that, there's some nice scumbags too y'know..." and I'm like "No, numbnuts, 'scumbags' are by definition not nice people!"

It's f*cking annoying the way morons are given so much credit... kill them all.

Thanks.

TheBigLebowski

DaveMcG wrote:

Yeah I didn't read the whole thing, but I got the idea, and I've been saying it for ages! I'd say something like "I hate scumbags" or "I hate skangers" to my girlfriend, and she'd be like "you shouldn't generalise like that, there's some nice scumbags too y'know..." and I'm like "No, numbnuts, 'scumbags' are by definition not nice people!"

It's f*cking annoying the way morons are given so much credit... kill them all.

Thanks.

Have you killed you girlfriend yet then?

Dave!

I knew I left that last bit a tad too vague

Yes, I have.

Karl Hungus

Bambi wrote:

Yup. EXTREME prejudice, to misquote homer


*steady's sights*

Where does this irrational hatred come from?

CodeMonkey

DaveMcG wrote:

Yeah I didn't read the whole thing, but I got the idea, and I've been saying it for ages! I'd say something like "I hate scumbags" or "I hate skangers" to my girlfriend, and she'd be like "you shouldn't generalise like that, there's some nice scumbags too y'know..." and I'm like "No, numbnuts, 'scumbags' are by definition not nice people!"

It's f*cking annoying the way morons are given so much credit... kill them all.

Thanks.

Yeah but you couldn't possible know everyone you think is a scumbag/skanger in fact act in the anti social manner you dispise. Most skanger are labeled as such from the way they dress/look or seen hanging around real skangers. Of course you wouldn't get to know them to find out if they really act like scumbags instead of just looking like one or just hanging around them. I wouldn't either...and that is discrimination/bigottry. So unless you don't discruminate and can verify that everyone you think is a scumbag is indeed one then you probably shouldn't generalise and wish them all dead...

Kingmaker

Why should we feel sorry for skangers? Is this country in the midst of a financial depression where there are no opportunities for people to be gainfully employed or something?
Are they doing what they do to survive?
These scangers should be dealt with in the "eye for an eye" manner.
For every person they (with about 20 of their "buds") beat half to death, they should receive a similar beating.
For every time they instil fear in someone, we should find ways of instilling fear in them.
An example should be made, and continue to be made- zero tolerance!!!!:mad:

Zombrex

Pigman II wrote:

Also don't believe all that bull**** about 'environment' sociologists will try to tell you either. I grew up in a rough enough area and went to a tough school but at the same time I knew right from wrong and how to behave in public.

Why do people always think this is given as an excuse for behaviour. It's not, its given as a reason. And if you don't know the reasons behind social problems itis hard to do anything about them.

Shabadu

I almost 100% agree with KH here, in that "scumbag is as scumbag does".

Then again, I walk through some very dodgy parts of Dublin every day. Most of the people I meet on the walk home from creche would be automatically classed as a skanger because of the aforementioned hair, clothes, jewellery and accents. Yet most of these people are helpful, friendly and just normal.

Some of them are absolute thieving gobshítes, who have tried to nick my phone/cash etc., but you cannot judge a whole group of people based on the actions of some.

pickarooney

Karl Hungus wrote:

Bottom line is that to say it is racist to critisize skangers, is akin to say it's racist to critisize paedophiles.

Worse, really. Paedophiles can't help being attracted to children, whereas skangers can, with a little effort, stop themselves being space-wasting pricks.

Why is it that there's no distinction between someone with a sexual leaning toward the very young and someone who rapes children? It's like having one word for 'heterosexual' and 'rapist'. It's like anyone born with a certain taste/gene/whatever is automatically a criminal.

Suppose there was a skanger gene...?

Sleepy

If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck tbh.

Karl Hungus

Shabadu wrote:

Most of the people I meet on the walk home from creche would be automatically classed as a skanger because of the aforementioned hair, clothes, jewellery and accents. Yet most of these people are helpful, friendly and just normal.

You'd have a point if I was saying that "Everyone who wears a tracksuit is a skanger!" Certainly, that would be wrong, because anyone who might have a pair of Nikes, or whatever tracksuits are the fashion, they might be perfectly upstanding members of society. But that's not what I'm saying at all.

Some of them are absolute thieving gobshítes, who have tried to nick my phone/cash etc., but you cannot judge a whole group of people based on the actions of some.

But it is solely the "Some" you're describing that I'm refering to as Skangers here. That is the only group of people I'm talking about.

landser

Wicknight wrote:

Why do people always think this is given as an excuse for behaviour. It's not, its given as a reason. And if you don't know the reasons behind social problems itis hard to do anything about them.

great, but knowing it's a reason doesn't unburgal my house or de-ignite my car.

we can work on the reasons with the next generation of knackers coming up.

madrab

i agree with kh on this, but also i see this thread turning into another scangerbashing thread, THATS NOT WHAT IT WAS STARTED FOR SO STAY ON TOPIC

Infini

IMO racism would only count if the person was clearly from another racial group from another part of the world and being disc riminated coz of that. If scangers think that they count as a "race" then they are just BSing. Its like with the travellers for example. If a publican decides to refuse them entry to a pub (and sometimes for good reasons) they kick up shouting saying theyre being racially discriminated. Thats BS IMO as travellers arent a different "race" theyre just a bunch of irish people who have decided to live in caravans. They were born here and so where their predecessors so how the hell do they count as a race. I can accept if someone is clearly being racially discriminated if they have the obvious backround to back it up but these days the term racism is just an excuse to just try and get your own way or launch a lawsuit. Pretty much undermines the original meaning at this stage. :rolleyes:

Shabadu

Karl Hungus wrote:

You'd have a point if I was saying that "Everyone who wears a tracksuit is a skanger!" Certainly, that would be wrong, because anyone who might have a pair of Nikes, or whatever tracksuits are the fashion, they might be perfectly upstanding members of society. But that's not what I'm saying at all.



But it is solely the "Some" you're describing that I'm refering to as Skangers here. That is the only group of people I'm talking about.

Indeed, I was hoping you meant that.

EL KEN POR PRESIDENTÉ!

Dyr

Karl Hungus wrote:

But it is solely the "Some" you're describing that I'm refering to as Skangers here. That is the only group of people I'm talking about.

So if you lived in saaayy, L.A and the majority of crimes were committed by blacks, it would be alright for you to refer to these people as savages. After all you're only referring to the "bad ones" as savages and not black people in general

course you are...

joe_chicken

I'm confused

This thread should be closed now...

There was just a small misunderstanding about what people meant by "racism" and it was then explained that some confuse "racism" with "prejudice" or "discrimination"...

Theres just gonna be loadsa people saying "I'm 10 times less racist than you"

Shabadu

Bambi wrote:

So if you lived in saaayy, L.A and the majority of crimes were committed by blacks, it would be alright for you to refer to these people as savages. After all you're only referring to the "bad ones" as savages and not black people in general

course you are...

Sorry, what? You appear confused. If he calls someone "thieving scum" because they're thieving, it doesn't matter what minority they do or don't belong to. THERE IS NO SKANGER RACE.

Tha Gopher

Its hilarious how far people go alright. In the college computer room this morning Im beside 4 birds I dont know, one of whom is black. They all appear to be mates

Irishgirl1: Did you see the X Factor last night?
IG2: No I missed it, who got thorwn out?
IG1 : John (it was some black contestant, i dunno his name as i dont watch it, lets just say thats his name)
IG2: Which one is he?
IG1: The....*looks at her black mate, who isnt even really listening o the convo*.......the one who looks like Lamar.

As said, I dont watch it, maybe he does look like him, but it was still funny she was so terrified of somehow offending her. Would she really go on such a roundabout way if her mate and whoever was being talked about were white English? One of my mates is black, we rip him the same we way we rip our mates who are of English, German, Arab, French (the French love to rip the piss about our drinking) origin, and they simply give as good back (calling us alcoholics, reminding us their country is in the World Cup and we arent, and so on )

Thats actually a depressing thought. Of all the foreigners I know, only two are from countries that didnt make the cup. Ack, it will be a depressing summer seeing them all hyped up for it. Still, whoevers against the English gwan eh

bagdaddy

Sparky_S wrote:

She is the reason why the lift is broken in the government buildings.
Seriously


[/B]Thankyou Wiki.[/QUOTE

Thats racist against fat people you bastard:D

Ruaidhri

Ahhh this topic is red hot as far as i can see.

IMO, prejudice is unacceptable. But,what is the words we use outline a very specific group of people,based on more abstracted traits than race/gender/orientation? Scum here refers to bad people. would you say it's racist to call a bad person bad? Even prejudice?
Is it racist to call a white person white? a black person black?

Skangers are the youths who break the law/enguage in anti-social behavior and generally are a negative aspect of Irish society. Where is the racism,discrimination or bigotry in that?

I find anyone who shouts down at other people for being racist are just hiding something themselves.

Terry

what about the term "cracker" in reference to white people?
nobody seems to complain about it when it's used by people who are not white.
i take offence at the fact that people seem to be afraid to complain about it.

if a black person calls me 'cracker', does it give me the right to call them '******'? not that i would, but it seems to be something of a double standard.

Ruaidhri

julep wrote:

what about the term "cracker" in reference to white people?
nobody seems to complain about it when it's used by people who are not white.
i take offence at the fact that people seem to be afraid to complain about it.

if a black person calls me 'cracker', does it give me the right to call them '******'? not that i would, but it seems to be something of a double standard.

Personally,i dont give a crap what people call me they ARE just words at the end of the day.

Have you seen that episode of south park where Chef was a reverse-racist? thought provoking tbh!

Scarinae

Sleepy wrote:

If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck tbh.

More like 'walks like a pigeon' actually

Binomate

People will always confuse racism with anti-semitism, other forms of racial hatred and any kind of descrimination against a stereotype.

Crucifix

Bambi wrote:

If someone with opeth in their sig ever becomes a presidential candidate you can rely on me to be lying in wait for 'em on a grassy knoll avec une sniper rifle. The greater good must be served :mad:

Woah, woah....woah. Attack the post, not the Opeth.

Rantorama

pickarooney wrote:

Worse, really. Paedophiles can't help being attracted to children, whereas skangers can, with a little effort, stop themselves being space-wasting pricks.

Why is it that there's no distinction between someone with a sexual leaning toward the very young and someone who rapes children? It's like having one word for 'heterosexual' and 'rapist'. It's like anyone born with a certain taste/gene/whatever is automatically a criminal.

Suppose there was a skanger gene...?

Yeah,prefect post.

Karl Hungus

Bambi wrote:

So if you lived in saaayy, L.A and the majority of crimes were committed by blacks, it would be alright for you to refer to these people as savages. After all you're only referring to the "bad ones" as savages and not black people in general

course you are...

So, if I lived in L.A. and I simply said that there were criminals there, because (As you said) most crimes are committed by blacks, then you would choose to twist that into saying that all blacks are criminals. You're a peachy one, aren't you? You just keep spinning your own inventions here, whatever keeps you happy.

AARRRGH

I really believe the politically correct people who automatically think "racism!" when someone talks about black people are the real racists.

Black = a problem in their mind.

Pigman II

This has been bugging me. Is racism (as the name would suggest) strictly and unequivicaly based on race or is there more scope to it than that?

So if I say "I hate all Americans" I'm not being racist just prejudiced? Equally if I say "I hate all Jews" I'm not being racist either?

pickarooney

Nobody really knows, as the goalposts shift constantly. I think the problem with the word is that in order to know when it's applicable you have to make a conscious distinction between groups of people, and even that's bordering on racism by some definitions.

I think if you say "I hate all Americans" it's neither racism nor prejudice, simply your own feelings, however flawed or illogical they might seem.
"All Americans are idiots" is, however, over the line.

Karl Hungus

Pigman II wrote:

This has been bugging me. Is racism (as the name would suggest) strictly and unequivicaly based on race or is there more scope to it than that?

So if I say "I hate all Americans" I'm not being racist just prejudiced? Equally if I say "I hate all Jews" I'm not being racist either?

I would certainly say that's a fair assesment.

turbot

Hey,

Do you think that classifying someone as a northsider or southsider is racialist?

Pigman II

turbot wrote:

Hey,

Do you think that classifying someone as a northsider or southsider is racialist?

Only if dey is black.

Karl Hungus

turbot wrote:

Hey,

Do you think that classifying someone as a northsider or southsider is racialist?

No, that would simply be pointing out where they're from. :v: