Willie O'Dea Posing With Firearms

spitfier

How in God's name can anyone be offended by the Minister For Defence posing with with a gun? If he's not allowed do it, who is? The cameramen asked him to pose with the gun. This issue has all been exaggerated for no other reason then to make a stab at the government. I'm not an especially pro-govt supporter but surely no one can logically argue that the minister did anything wrong?

eoin_ie

I think it's got less to do with the fact that he posed with guns and rather that he aimed one at the camera with a moronic grin on his face.

johnnyrotten

Yeah, It was really blown out of proportion. Opposition A~#eholes having their daily dig at the Government

johnnyrotten

Anyone able to post the pic here?

Guy:Incognito

This has been blown completely out of proportion. The media is going on about him doing this in the current environment of the drugs killings. It's hardly similar isit. It's the armies weapons for christs sake, amd he's the minister of defence. Have these hacks nothing better to do?

RuggieBear

http://www.ireland.com/ITImage/urlpicture_id_1130406954162_20051116/makemyday,2.jpg

Agent Smith

johnnyrotten

Looks Ok to me! Hes the Defence Minister at a celebration of the Rangers Anniversary. Hes hardly going to assasinate a drug dealer or hold up a bank.

spitfier

eoin_ie wrote:

I think it's got less to do with the fact that he posed with guns and rather that he aimed one at the camera with a moronic grin on his face.

Moron or not, it doesn't make the action of pointing the gun at the camera wrong.

Zombrex

a lot of gun smoke (ahem) over nothing ...

he was clearly sending up a hollywood style "You talking to me" pose .. I personally don't have much time for O'Dea, but jesus TDs are allowed have a sense of humour too ... if anyone thinks Willie O'Dea is going to make gun crime glamourous they clearly haven't seen the photo (I can see 50 Cent shaking in his boots now)

If he dressed up as Ali G and started "pretending" to smoke crack, now that wouldn't be funny ... it would be fecking hilarious!!

johnnyrotten

Wicknight wrote:

If he dressed up as Ali G and started "pretending" to smoke crack, now that wouldn't be funny ... it would be fecking hilarious!!

Ray777

spitfier wrote:

I'm not an especially pro-govt supporter but surely no one can logically argue that the minister did anything wrong?

The Defence Minister poses, grinning and pointing a gun towards a camera. It's nothing more than a stupid error of judgement, but if that happened in Britain, he'd probably have been sacked or forced to resign by now.

Guy:Incognito

Wicknight wrote:

a lot of gun smoke (ahem) over nothing ...

he was clearly sending up a hollywood style "You talking to me" pose .. I personally don't have much time for O'Dea, but jesus TDs are allowed have a sense of humour too ... if anyone thinks Willie O'Dea is going to make gun crime glamourous they clearly haven't seen the photo (I can see 50 Cent shaking in his boots now)

If he dressed up as Ali G and started "pretending" to smoke crack, now that wouldn't be funny ... it would be fecking hilarious!!

Even Richard Madely (nearly) pulled that one off.

mike65

Willie O'Dea for not spoting a photo-op best avoided or the fusspots in the Dail (Joe Higgins apart, he caught the moment well). Pat Rabbitte was particularly culpable if he were any more windy and pompus he'd have blown himself out onto the street. As for Trevor Seargent...tsk. Still at least no Shinner stood up to pontificate!

Why cant politicans see when they are being used by the media, I thought they all went through the Bunny Carr school of communications these days. I'd want my money back.

Mike.

deise boy

I agree, its no huge deal really. I didnt know it was the rangers anniversary? Its just Pat Rabbit creating a storm in a tea cup as usual.

mickd

mike65 wrote:

Willie O'Dea for not spoting a photo-op best avoided or the fusspots in the Dail (Joe Higgins apart, he caught the moment well). Pat Rabbitte was particularly culpable if he were any more windy and pompus he'd have blown himself out onto the street. As for Trevor Seargent...tsk. Still at least no Shinner stood up to pontificate!
Mike.

"Pat Rabbitte would drown in his own pomposity. Pat Rabbitte approches issues with his mouth open, permanently in awe of his own cleverness. Pat Rabbitte should get a life" Willie O'Dea on the News at One.

"That was good old fashioned abuse, I will not deal with the runt of the cabinet litter"
Pat Rabbitte responding on The Last Word

HybridTech

mike65 wrote:

at least no Shinner stood up to pontificate!

Storm in a tea cup!! If that's the only exposure we have to weapons in this country...GREAT!!!

Sparks

A few years back, when he was the Minister of State in the Dept. of Justice, we (the National Target Shooting Association, the national governing body for Olympic target shooting) met with him to discuss pistol licences for people to compete in the Olympics (a third of the shooting events in the Games are shot with pistols - .22 calibre and air pistols). We were turned down because they were supposed to be far too dangerous for ordinary people to have them. And now he's breaking the first rule of firearms safety on the front page of the Irish Times as if it's some great big joke (the day after a series of gangland murders in residential areas) and you wonder why some of us are ticked off?

Ajnag

As for Trevor Seargent

Tell me about it :rolleyes:
Disappearing up ones own orifice is a sad sign of things to come imo.

One thing however did catch my eye, O'Dea did nothing for gun safety in the way he handled those weapons. He had his finger on the trigger for half the pose's :eek:
And thats also a good inditment on our td's that not one even noticed. And then they'll tell us about safety....gimme a break.

HybridTech

D'you think he'd have been allowed get anywhere near them, never mind handle them if there was anything up the breech or in the magazine?

Sparks

First rule in the army HT is that there is no such thing as an unloaded gun. Mainly because soldiers are always being shot with "unloaded" guns.

Tell you what, you look at that photo again and tell me how you know there's nothing in the breech of that pistol?

HybridTech

Agreed Sparks, no way of knowing. Like i said, d'you really think he would have been handed a live weapon, or allowed pick one from the table?

Sparks

That's the point HT, that because you don't have a way of knowing, you don't joke about. Senses of humour and firearms are best kept a good distance apart...

HybridTech

I'm not joking!! Where did I joke about it? OK, the Shinners reply! Fair enough! Still, I say storm in a tea-cup, for the simple reason of my last two posts.

lostexpectation

has to go to Higgens who took it in good humour

Mr. J. Higgins (Socialist Party): As a matter of Dáil security, did the Tánaiste require the Minister for Defence to leave his weapon at the door this morning?

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle: That does not arise on the Order of Business.

Mr. S. Power (FF): He left it besides Deputy Joe Higgins's handcuffs (reference to Joe's recent incarceration for refusing to bend the knee to the Man).

Mr. O'Dea (FF): Trotsky was big into weapons.

Mr. McDowell (Right Wing, I mean Progressive Democrats): Where was the ice-pick left?

Mr. J. Higgins (SP): If not, I was going to ask Deputy Ferris (Sinn Féin) to go over and disarm him.

"As we all know, weaponry is not a laughing matter, but we do sometimes have to undermine the increasing pomposity of Government ministers."

walshb

It's a well known rule that you never ever point a gun at anybody loaded or not, he made a bad call, even though he was asked to do it. I saw the clown, he was like a kid in a sweet shop....out and out idiot

Heinrich

Could you imagine the pose if the Irish Navy had an aircraft carrier?

Hagar

Apart from the politics of the issue..

A) Treat every weapon as if it's loaded regardless of what anyone else has told you
You never point a weapon at a person unless you intend to fire at that person
C) You never put your finger on the trigger of a weapon until it is pointed at your target and you are prepared to fire

Apart from that it was just buffoonery for the camera

Dave!

Obviously blown completely out of proportion to take a cheap shot (ptp)

Mighty_Mouse

Storm in a teacup. Opposition speciality these days as opposed to being able to construct any publicly interesting and valid arguments against the major failings of the current administration.

Pat Rabbitte approches issues with his mouth open

I heard it and i thought he said "Pat Rabitte approaches every issue with an open mouth". (as opposed to open-mind!)

I thought it was fecking hilarious. Must of been the delivery!

tba

I have to get a credit card someday...
http://tinyurl.com/arr2n

Sparks

Storm in a teacup.

I have to say that that particular phrase just goes over so well with the target shooters that O'Dea treated so badly in his time in the DoJ, when they're a damn sight more responsible with firearms than he's proven to be...

AARRRGH

Hagar wrote:

Apart from the politics of the issue..

A) Treat every weapon as if it's loaded regardless of what anyone else has told you
You never point a weapon at a person unless you intend to fire at that person
C) You never put your finger on the trigger of a weapon until it is pointed at your target and you are prepared to fire

Apart from that it was just buffoonery for the camera

A) I'm sure the weapons specialists who were with him can be trusted
Why? That's ridiculous.
C) Why? That's ridiculous. Who makes up these silly rules?

Never go to boards.ie unless you plan on replying to a topic.

Sparks

dublindude wrote:

A) I'm sure the weapons specialists who were with him can be trusted

Sure they can. Now look at the photo and tell me how you know that there's no round in that pistol's breech.

Why? That's ridiculous.
C) Why? That's ridiculous. Who makes up these silly rules?

People who've seen other people shot with supposedly unloaded firearms. And they're followed by people who don't want to be shot by supposedly unloaded firearms.

Ajnag

A) I'm sure the weapons specialists who were with him can be trusted
Why? That's ridiculous.
C) Why? That's ridiculous. Who makes up these silly rules?

Gun safety is not rediculous, reguardless of how well trained you are, there was still a chance that those weapons could have been loaded. And gun owners and people who have a long experiance make up those "silly rules" :rolleyes:

Do you own a gun?

civdef

Dublindude, as you seem to know better than the collective experience of responsible shooters for the last 500 years or so, and see fit to dismiss the most fundamental safety rules dealing with the use of firearms, have you got any level of experience to back this up?

Dave!

tba wrote:

I have to get a credit card someday...
http://tinyurl.com/arr2n

lol, class

Mighty_Mouse

Sure they can. Now look at the photo and tell me how you know that there's no round in that pistol's breech.

Lads im sure the army gun experts did hand willie a loaded gun and might of even checked the breech for him and all!

I know its not best gun practice etc but again lads its a mountain out of a molehill.personally i think its quite a good photo! Also sure wasnt he inspecting the armys weaponry! If the gun went off sure the cameraman would know its faulty anyways!

Again imo it sounds like ppl involved in shooting have very little to be talking about and are latching on to this issue a little.

RuggieBear

Mighty_Mouse wrote:

Again imo it sounds like ppl involved in shooting have very little to be talking about and are latching on to this issue a little.

it's kinda understandable when this gob****e has done so much to hinder their beloved sport

Sparks

Mighty_Mouse wrote:

Lads im sure the army gun experts did hand willie a loaded gun and might of even checked the breech for him and all!

That's "you think" not "you know". With a 9mm pistol, you want more of the latter and a damn sight less of the former. This isn't a toy we're talking about don't forget, that thing is a sidearm, designed to be used to kill people. Waving it about like that shows a distinct lack of cop-on.

Again imo it sounds like ppl involved in shooting have very little to be talking about and are latching on to this issue a little.

I think if he'd done as much against your sport as he has ours, you'd feel rather miffed as well.

Mighty_Mouse

it's kinda understandable when this gob****e has done so much to hinder their beloved sport

how has willie o dea harmed shooting in ireland. explain pls

Sparks

Mighty_Mouse wrote:

how has willie o dea harmed shooting in ireland. explain pls

From page one of the thread:

Sparks wrote:

A few years back, when he was the Minister of State in the Dept. of Justice, we (the National Target Shooting Association, the national governing body for Olympic target shooting) met with him to discuss pistol licences for people to compete in the Olympics (a third of the shooting events in the Games are shot with pistols - .22 calibre and air pistols). We were turned down because they were supposed to be far too dangerous for ordinary people to have them. And now he's breaking the first rule of firearms safety on the front page of the Irish Times as if it's some great big joke (the day after a series of gangland murders in residential areas) and you wonder why some of us are ticked off?

AARRRGH

civdef wrote:

Dublindude, as you seem to know better than the collective experience of responsible shooters for the last 500 years or so, and see fit to dismiss the most fundamental safety rules dealing with the use of firearms, have you got any level of experience to back this up?

Let me see.

The army experts check the gun. They see it is empty. He holds it and poses.

Of course, being a boards.ie nerd I am sure you know more than the army experts.

And this has made you so angry... why?

Is it because you're jealous of him holding a handgun?
Is it because you have some kind of weird issues with guns/the army?

Let's not totally overreact here. No child in Ireland is going to see that picture, somehow find a pistol, and shoot someone.

If you want to be angry, blame the newspapers for publishing the picture.

Sparks

dublindude wrote:

Let me see.
The army experts check the gun. They see it is empty. He holds it and poses.
Of course, being a boards.ie nerd I am sure you know more than the army experts.

No, it's the having been a target shooter for twelve years and a range officer for seven, and the having trained somewhere around four to five hundred people in target shooting that mean that I would know enough to comment.
The boards.ie thing is just ancillary.

And this has made you so angry... why?

See above. We want to take part in the Olympic games and need air pistols to do so; we're denied by him because they'd be too dangerous. Ignore for now the facts that shotguns and buckshot are freely available at that time and that armed crime isn't carried out with single-shot air pistols like this one:


Yet now we see him waving about a sidearm, a pistol that's designed for killing people, on the front page of the Times for PR reasons. Do you not see why we might be annoyed at this?

Is it because you're jealous of him holding a handgun?

Jealous is the wrong word to use. We would be annoyed at the double standards involved in him denying us access to pistols for serious training and yet having no concept of gun safety and waving about a pistol like that himself.

Let's not totally overreact here. No child in Ireland is going to see that picture, somehow find a pistol, and shoot someone.

Only yesterday on Liveline we heard the story of an Irish child who played at cowboys and indians with his kid sister and his father's supposedly unloaded shotgun, with tragic consequences. The Department of Justice (where O'Dea was the Junior Minister for years) constantly tells us that firearms are highly dangerous and must always be handled with care (which isn't so much preaching to the choir as preaching to the bishops), and yet, here he is, waving one about like a child's toy.

If you want to be angry, blame the newspapers for publishing the picture.

Why? Is the Minister not responsible for his own actions?

civdef

dublindude wrote:

Let me see.

The army experts check the gun. They see it is empty. He holds it and poses.

Of course, being a boards.ie nerd I am sure you know more than the army experts.

And this has made you so angry... why?

Is it because you're jealous of him holding a handgun?
Is it because you have some kind of weird issues with guns/the army?

Let's not totally overreact here. No child in Ireland is going to see that picture, somehow find a pistol, and shoot someone.

If you want to be angry, blame the newspapers for publishing the picture.

First of all thanks for the personal angle you've taken with your reply. Shall I take that as a "no" to my substantive question as to whether you have any knowledge or experience of firearms then?

Secondly, for the record, I do know what I'm talking about here.

I'm not very jealous of Willie holding a gun, he looked like he was enjoying himself, which was nice to see.

I'm not even particlularly angry about what he did, it's about par for the course with politicans and photoshoots, but your seemingly ill-informed dismissal of the basic points of firearm safety, coupled with your arrogant and aggressive response to my questioning of your credibility do strain my patience somewhat.

oscarBravo

Sparks wrote:

...single-shot air pistols like this one:
http://www.dominoguns.com/im_prod/fwb/fwb_p40_3_g.jpg

Is it just me, or would anyone else be concerned at how you'd have to hold thon gun to read the guage on the front? :eek:

AARRRGH

civdef wrote:

First of all thanks for the personal angle you've taken with your reply. Shall I take that as a "no" to my substantive question as to whether you have any knowledge or experience of firearms then?

Secondly, for the record, I do know what I'm talking about here.

I'm not very jealous of Willie holding a gun, he looked like he was enjoying himself, which was nice to see.

I'm not even particlularly angry about what he did, it's about par for the course with politicans and photoshoots, but your seemingly ill-informed dismissal of the basic points of firearm safety, coupled with your arrogant and aggressive response to my questioning of your credibility do strain my patience somewhat.

So you're only angry because what he did was dangerous?

Get over yourself will you. The army experts checked the gun. Are you trying to create a false reality in your brain that the gun was loaded and he was trying to shoot someone?

??????

Bizarre.

sparks wrote:

Yet now we see him waving about a sidearm, a pistol that's designed for killing people, on the front page of the Times for PR reasons. Do you not see why we might be annoyed at this?

I can understand you seeing it as hypocritical, but to get so worked up about it??? Come on. Not healthy.

civdef

So you're only angry because what he did was dangerous?

Get over yourself will you. The army experts checked the gun. Are you trying to create a false reality in your brain that the gun was loaded and he was trying to shoot someone?

??????

Bizarre.

I'll restate my position.

What Willie O'Dea did was stupid. Politicans are stupid a lot, particularly where cameras are involved. I am not angry about Willie being stupid.

People who know about firearms (this would include the Army), but clearly not you, will realise that what Willie did was stupid and unsafe. If a soldier did that on a range with a pistol, he could expect a serious shouting at, and possibly a smack across the head. A civilian shooter would get banned from a range for life for doing something like that.

People who know about firearms know that they are too serious to treat as toys, they are not to be pointed frivously at others, and you never assume a gun is unloaded. You posted as if you know better. You are wrong.

You took issue with the fundamental principles of firearm safety, mocking the posts of others who pointed out that what Willie did was unsafe and stupid. Some of these people clearly know about firearms safety. You don't. I'm not angry about that though, just exasperated.

Any questions?

magpie

Sure what's wrong with the Minister for Defence pretending to be Dirty Harry with a stupid sh1t-eating grin pointing a gun at the press corps?

You'd swear we were some sort of first world country that actually expects our Ministers to act with some modicum of dignity rather than a tin-pot fascist african dictatorship where guns are a 'laugh'

AARRRGH

civdef wrote:

Any questions?

Yes. You still seem to be living in some false reality about this.

This was a staged photoshoot. It wasn't a random act in the middle of Grafton Street.

When you watch a movie and the actor is holding a gun, do you scream with rage?

Let me repeat what I said above. THIS WAS A STAGED PHOTOSHOOT.

FFS :rolleyes:

Hagar

Dublindude you are out of your depth here in discussing a topic you obviously know nothing about.

Step away from the keyboard and save what's left of your dignity.