Stopped for cycling on the Luas Line

t5pwr

Just a warning. I was cycling along yesterday with a friend on the Luas Line on Middle Abbey St. and a guard pulled us in for cycling on the line.

We were not flying along and there was no Luas behind us...

Siad that there was a fine of €600 max to be had and that he would think about what he would do about it, so we could receive a summons for this.

He also said that my driving license could be affected from doing stupid things on a bike, I don't believe this as my license has nothing to do with my pedal bike. Anyone any ideas?

eth0_

Well you definitely shouldn't have been cycling on the Luas line - would you cycle on a railway line? It's the same difference.

As for it affecting your driving licence...how? There are no endorsements relating to bicycle mis-use, and as you said, your driving licence has nothing to do with a pedal bike which doesn't not require a licence to operate.

Sounds like the guard was b*ll****ting you for the sake of his own ego. Did you get his badge number? I'd report him.

t5pwr

eth0_ wrote:

Well you definitely shouldn't have been cycling on the Luas line - would you cycle on a railway line? It's the same difference...

Yeah I know that now but I am just warning anyone else as I see cyclists on the lines every day. I won't be taking that way anymore, I've learned my lesson on that.

I figured the guard was full of sh*t on the license issue as I know that it has nothing to do with my bike. But do they normally say this kind of thing to people?

He was really nice about the whole thing to be honest and didn't give out but just took our details.

Genghis

Now, its not quite the same as cycling on a railway line, is it? A great deal of the Luas network is on road surface, is shared with other traffic, and iirc Luas / DCC took great care and spent a lot of money educating cyclists on how to cycle on Luas lines when they were introduced.

I do, however, accept that some of the Luas line are closed to other traffic.

I cycle along a 300m stretch near Heuston twice each day, usually within sight of a Garda manning the busy junction outside of the station. I have never seen any cyclist (and I know many) who have been stopped there.

I hope they don't clamp down on this, as it would add significantly to my journey if I had to cut out my present 'short-cut'.

daymobrew

Genghis wrote:

I cycle along a 300m stretch near Heuston twice each day, usually within sight of a Garda manning the busy junction outside of the station. I have never seen any cyclist (and I know many) who have been stopped there.

If I have to cycle into the city centre on a weekday, I will follow the Luas line from Benburb Street (near Heuston) until Abbey Street.
Despite the mild cobblestone-like surface, it is much a better surface and a safer route, imho, than the quays.

Ghost Rider

There is no outright ban against driving/cycling on the Luas line. Look at where either line goes and you'll see several points at which, not only is it legal to cross the lines, it is legal to drive on the lines. Benburb Street is one example.

That is not to say there aren't points at which it is disallowed. Perhaps Middle Abbey Street is one such point. I don't know.

As for the other point, I was stopped for breaking a red light some years ago by a motorcycle cop and asked "Do you have a driving license?" I thought he was inquiring as to my experience of using roads so I said "Yes", to which he replied "Well, did you know I can endorse your license?"

As for whether or not that's actually true, I don't know. I just know a cop told me it was.

t5pwr wrote:

Just a warning. I was cycling along yesterday with a friend on the Luas Line on Middle Abbey St. and a guard pulled us in for cycling on the line.

We were not flying along and there was no Luas behind us...

Siad that there was a fine of €600 max to be had and that he would think about what he would do about it, so we could receive a summons for this.

He also said that my driving license could be affected from doing stupid things on a bike, I don't believe this as my license has nothing to do with my pedal bike. Anyone any ideas?

jaqian

I've never seen any signs saying no cycling/no access etc on any of the Luas lines. I cross them all the time and cycle along them and have never had any probs. Defo wouldn't be handing over info on my licence though.

Btw I agree with Genghis I don't think you can compare cycling on Luas line with a rail-line!

Trampas

eth0_ wrote:

Well you definitely shouldn't have been cycling on the Luas line - would you cycle on a railway line? It's the same difference.

Another great statement which i can never understand. "Its the same difference".

How can things be the same but different.

Anyway. I don't see any problem with cycling on the luas line unless the road is only set for luas traffic but if cars can use the road you should be. Unless there is a luas on the road with you then you should be in trouble.

Still no deaths on the line. They allow for something like 6 a year

t5pwr

Trampas wrote:

...Anyway. I don't see any problem with cycling on the luas line unless the road is only set for luas traffic but if cars can use the road you should be. Unless there is a luas on the road with you then you should be in trouble...

We did cross from one side of O'Connell St to the other while following a Luas which is I'm sure where he had the problem with, don't know the name of the street.

The Luas line goes to the right there and we went straight onto a road.

stephenoleary

Trampas wrote:

Still no deaths on the line. They allow for something like 6 a year

Really?? 6 a year? Do you mean they expect 6 people a year to die in Luas related accidents?

Where did you get that stat from?

robfitz

Ghost Rider wrote:

There is no outright ban against driving/cycling on the Luas line.

Really?

Regulation of Travel and Use Bye-laws SI 100
...
7. (1) A person shall not on a light railway -
(a) park or use any vehicle otherwise then in an area designated for that purpose,
(b) park or use any vehicle otherwise then in accordance with any notice or announcement or direction that may apply or be made by an operator,
...

kenmc

I heard that you can get endorsements on your licence for drunken cycling also - could be an urban myth of course, but I for one don't wanna take the chance. I leave my licence at home.
(I guess it can be looked upon as "if you have a licence for driving, you should *know* the rules of the road, and know that it's really really stupid to do XYZ in the car, same on the bike").

Mucco

I once cycled to Dundrum on the Luas line after a nightclub. It's a bit bumpy.

M

ninja 101

yeah I was just wondering when the cop 'pulled you over'was he just walking down the street of was he on a bike or something.I have been called and bekoned by the gardai a couple of times on my bike but I just keep on cycling albeit considerably faster and they never chase me.Even if they wanted to most of them are far too fat and old to hve any chance of catching a young bucko like myself.So why didn't you put the pedal to the metal?

t5pwr

ninja 101 wrote:

yeah I was just wondering when the cop 'pulled you over'was he just walking down the street of was he on a bike or something.I have been called and bekoned by the gardai a couple of times on my bike but I just keep on cycling albeit considerably faster and they never chase me.Even if they wanted to most of them are far too fat and old to hve any chance of catching a young bucko like myself.So why didn't you put the pedal to the metal?

He was on a motor bike
I'd have had to pedal very hard...

Ghost Rider

What's your argument? The line you quote from the bye-law says nothing more than "you can't cycle on a Luas line unless it's permitted". That's not to say it's never permitted.

In fact, I'm fairly sure it is permitted, at least in some places. I suspect there are stretches of the Luas line designated as "tram only" and stretches that aren't.

(By the way, is your last name Fitzsimons?)

robfitz wrote:

Really?

ferdi

guard: do you have a driving license?
cyclist: no.

easy eh?

quad_red

I always cycle up the Luas line from Middle Abbey street to Benburb st (where I top up in the Dice bar usually and move on;) )

And I've cycled past cops loads of times and never been pulled over. Sounds like someone pissed in his cornflakes that morning to be honest.

Ghost Rider

I e-mailed Connex yesterday to ask where on the Luas lines you are allowed to cycle and where you aren't. I also asked them to tell me what the penalties are for infringement.

They got back to me this morning. To the first question, they responded by saying "If a car is authorised to travel on the tracks, then a cyclist is also." They didn't proffer any details as to where that authorisation actually exists and where it doesn't. So, in effect, their response reflected the vagueness of the bye-laws themselves.

To the second question, they responded by saying that the penalties for infringement are the same for cyclists as they are for motorists.

Naturally, I've mailed them back and asked them to clarify both questions. Will post here when I get a response...

Ghost Rider

Connex got back to me a second time on this. Apparently there is signage at each Luas junction telling you whether or not it is permissible to access that part of the track. I've asked them if they have an image of the signage so I can get some idea of what to expect but haven't heard back yet.

As for penalties, they basically said it was nothing to do with them - which is fair enough, although it gets us no closer to the truth.

Ghost Rider wrote:

I e-mailed Connex yesterday to ask where on the Luas lines you are allowed to cycle and where you aren't. I also asked them to tell me what the penalties are for infringement.

They got back to me this morning. To the first question, they responded by saying "If a car is authorised to travel on the tracks, then a cyclist is also." They didn't proffer any details as to where that authorisation actually exists and where it doesn't. So, in effect, their response reflected the vagueness of the bye-laws themselves.

To the second question, they responded by saying that the penalties for infringement are the same for cyclists as they are for motorists.

Naturally, I've mailed them back and asked them to clarify both questions. Will post here when I get a response...

t5pwr

Nice one Ghost Rider...

cyclopath2001

ferdi wrote:

guard: do you have a driving license?
cyclist: no.easy eh?

If the Garda is not satisfied that you've given your correct name & address, he/she can impound the bike until you prove your identity.

I once read of a Parisian cyclist who had his driving licence endorsed for running a red light.

Seems fair enough to me... as long as pedestrian motorists can get points for walking in the dark, with no lights, on bike tracks while yakking on their cell phones.

FX Meister

Got stopped myself on the tracks a few months ago, the stretch from Heuston into town. Made sure I kept looking back to be on the safe side in case a Luas came up behind me. Got stopped near the four courts by a very pissed off Garda who them mellowed out when I just apologised to him. Used the street until I got a block past him and went back on the line. I can see his point though, he doesn't know how capable one cyclist is over another and whether they will get injured or not.

t5pwr

cyclopath2001 wrote:

If the Garda is not satisfied that you've given your correct name & address, he/she can impound the bike until you prove your identity.

I once read of a Parisian cyclist who had his driving licence endorsed for running a red light.

Seems fair enough to me... as long as pedestrian motorists can get points for walking in the dark, with no lights, on bike tracks while yakking on their cell phones.

I think it's a bit unfair because people that do not have a license are only fined whereas people with a license can get a fine and an endorsement... It's 2 different rules

I know people are going to argue that if you have a license you should know the rules of the road. But in that case if you don't know the rules of the road then should you be allowed to cycle a bike???

beans

t5pwr wrote:

I think it's a bit unfair because people that do not have a license are only fined whereas people with a license can get a fine and an endorsement... It's 2 different rules

I don't think cyclists driving licences will actually be endorsed for bicycle-related offences. The evidence has all be anecdotal so far

I once read of a Parisian cyclist who had his driving licence endorsed...

I heard that you can get endorsements on your licence...

I'd be very surprised if this was anything but hear-say

Victor

ferdi wrote:

guard: do you have a driving license?
cyclist: no.

Name, address and date of birth please.

And then he runs that against the computer.

:eek:

:rolleyes:

t5pwr

Victor wrote:

Name, address and date of birth please.

And then he runs that against the computer.

:eek:

:rolleyes:

That's fair enough but your pedal bike should have nothing to do with your driving license...

I know 10 years ago it didn't as I asked a guard back then if it did and I was assured that your license cannot be touched.

Victor

Ghost Rider wrote:

Connex got back to me a second time on this. Apparently there is signage at each Luas junction telling you whether or not it is permissible to access that part of the track. I've asked them if they have an image of the signage so I can get some idea of what to expect but haven't heard back yet.

As for penalties, they basically said it was nothing to do with them - which is fair enough, although it gets us no closer to the truth.

The signage is standard road signage - typicly a no entry sign with "except trams" or "except trams and access" on an information plate. On dual usage streets there will be tram lane signage analogous to bus lane signage.

http://www.luas.ie/ftp/head7_US/Safety%20Signs.pdf
http://www.luas.ie/ftp/head7_US/LEAFLET%20two.pdf

Penalties would be in accordance with the bye-laws

http://www.luas.ie/ftp/head11_US/Regulation%20of%20Travel%20and%20Use%20Bye-laws%20SI%20100.pdf

cyclopath2001

Victor wrote:

The signage is standard road signage

[rhetorical]So they would be detailed in the 'Rules of the Road' alongside the signs for cycle lanes etc? [/rhetorical]

Ghost Rider

Thanks for the info regarding signage although, for some reason, the PDFs you link to don't show the "no entry except trams" sign. Neither do the bye-laws specify any penalties whatsoever.

My communications so far with Connex suggest that they maintain a fairly robust ass-covering, and possibly even bird-flipping, attitude e.g. "The penalties are enforced by the police, so it's nothing to do with us and we're not about to give you any information about them." (Not a quote.)

Victor wrote:

The signage is standard road signage - typicly a no entry sign with "except trams" or "except trams and access" on an information plate. On dual usage streets there will be tram lane signage analogous to bus lane signage.

http://www.luas.ie/ftp/head7_US/Safety%20Signs.pdf
http://www.luas.ie/ftp/head7_US/LEAFLET%20two.pdf

Penalties would be in accordance with the bye-laws

http://www.luas.ie/ftp/head11_US/Regulation%20of%20Travel%20and%20Use%20Bye-laws%20SI%20100.pdf

robfitz

Ghost Rider wrote:

Neither do the bye-laws specify any penalties whatsoever.

The powers to write the bye-laws are confered under TRANSPORT (DUBLIN LIGHT RAIL) ACT, 1996 SECTION 24.

...
(3) A person who contravenes a bye-law under this section shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £1,500 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or to both.
..

Explosive_Cornflake

I used to cycle from the four courts to the busaras on the luas line a lot last year. I never saw a porblem with it. Part of that you can drive on anyway, it's open for access for deliveries and so on.
Just cycle faster than the luas anyway, it's not too hard.