Ireland vs New Zealand...Aftermath

Shards

What did everyone think? Was it a complete and utter slaughter? does Ireland need to revamp the team? Considering that this was the All Blacks B team I think we need a few changes at least.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

The all blacks are an absolutely phenomenal team, it they can field a side like that as a B team, then they could turn into the Michael Schumacher/Ferarris of Rugby

zAbbo

I think you need to update your knowledge of Forumla 1.

woeful display indeed. I'd hardly call Howlett, Sivuvatu and MacDonald a B Team back line

Shards

They are the best rugby team in the world right noe and Ireland...aren't. First thing they need to do is get rid of anthony horgan. I'd like to think we would have done better if o' Driscoll and Hickey had been able to play but I doubt it. And that spear tackle...completely planned move again. I say there will be f*ckin ructions tonight.

rugbug86

utter world class. the all blacks have the skill and confidence to play rugby how it should be played.

Nukem

sean_keevey wrote:

absolutely phenomenal team

Complete is the word i would use - Irleand were just shown how good a team (not 15) can play. We tried sh!t we couldnt pull off,we shoulda at least tries a few pick and drive efforts - your getting slaughtered out wide go to ground inch at a time if needed. Its not pretty but damn they woulda got further than trying all these fancy moves outwide.

Bowe looked abit star struck - twice i saw him an inch from the ball looking at it on the floor (im screming down on it) he just made some porr decisions as all the backs did. Horganz both had a poor game. D'arcy though running into to forwards and trying to break through was the way to go:rolleyes:

The thing that miffed me the most and does all the time in Irelands game is support! We aint got none - we leave one player break through and then its turnover ball. F*ck i get so annoyed...................not saying anymore or il freak out.

Simple we were out gunned.

Too EOS try new things but please remember the basics: you need possesion to win matches and the only way is throuygh support play.

*rant over*

Liam90

brilliant game, New Zealand are worlds ahead of anyother rugby team, the only team a little close is South Africa, they are unbeatable. The thing that just impresses me most is the offloading in the tackle its just amazing to watch

MisterAnarchy

New Zealand are worlds ahead of anyother rugby team, the only team a little close is South Africa, they are unbeatable

Did you watch all the Tri Nations ?
South Africa beat new Zealand in South Africa and lost to a last minute try in New Zealand.
They are an excellent side but not unbeatable.

Amazotheamazing

The first change that's needed is EOS being fired. Playing a running game against NZ, **** off back to Youghal you cowboy.

Fair play to NZ, great team.

Davei141

Yeah it was just suicide.

Amazotheamazing

Crazy, we are missing 2 of our best backs and he plays a running game? Idiot, the man is a stone cert idiot. O'Gara must have passed 80+% of the ball he received. BTW, whoever has stolen D'Arcy's ability and self-confidence, could they please return it now?

youcancallmeal

Watching the post match analysis from the England-Australia game was funny. They think they have a chance next week :eek:

dazman2250

I was at the match and it was a very poor performance indeed. I do think however that there was no combination of players who could have come close to matching the physicality of the all blacks.

Tommy Bowe was particuraley poor in the first half, his opposite number got in for the first try on the other side of the pitch while he stood by watching the centre rather than marking up on his man. Anthony Horgan also was poor and shown to be desperatley lacking in pace when required.

As for the forwards Johnny O'Connor was once again invisible and is too small to be playing in the backrow especially against guys like Ritchie McCaw. The absence of David Wallace who in my opinion is the most dynamic and possibly the best performing Irish player in club rugby at the moment is inexcusable. Also Eddie should have played Girvan Dempsey at full back giving Geordan Murphy the winger slot ahead of Horgan. The absence of a top class scrumager left Ireland desperatley lacking at the set piece although against lesser opposition Horan is useful thanks to his mobility. All in all the lack of depth in the squad and absence of any really promising players coming through (bar Robert Kearney) to the team means that all the signs point to some rather lean years to come for Irish Rugby.

dazman2250

England certainly do have a better shot against the all blacks than we do, they have a lot more strength in the forwards, with guys like Grewcock and Corry they'll be able to slow up ball at the breakdown and reduce the effectivness of the New Zealand backs. Their front row was absolutely huge today and presumably they will be far better at the scrum than we were. I didn't actually get to see the England game today however, and would have some worries as to how Mark Van Ginsbergen slots into Jason Robinson's shoes. Of course you'd have to bet on New Zealand but if anyone is going to cause an upset it'll be England.

Maskhadov

we got a real hiding out there. Dreadful stuff, totally went to the dogs

Imposter

I seen the Aus V Eng game today and they will give NZ a good game. England are better than they were in the 6 nations.

Australia on the other hand are very bad. If Ireland can't beat them then it's time for heads to roll. The Aussie front row was the worst i've ever seen from a top team. The last 10mins were played with uncontested scrums, at a great relief to Australia, which made me wonder why Ausralia didn't get their front row "injured" 10 mins into the game.

damnyanks

What sort of injuries happened ? Saw some lad with a seriously ****ed eye and heard there was a "serious" injury in the second half.

Davei141

Guy injured in a collapsed scrum i think

CJhaughey

Fat prop Dunning had a neck injury, he has been cleared after the MRI scan.

daveirl

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Stretch*

We don't understand why rugby in the UK and Ireland has dropped of the pace. We thought the Lions would be better than they were, and I think it's fair to say its the English next week we see as the only team which may provide some serious opposition, but I still think we'll put 25/30 points on them.

Stretch*

Hi from NZ. The South Africans play a rushing defence and are actually offside a lot of the time...the POMs will try and kill the ball to prevent us running them of the pitch...however I am predicting a 25/30 point win..depending on which of our teams or combinations we use.

gjim

Depressing indeed. Irish tactics of trying to play an exclusively running/passing game were nuts. WTF was Eddie thinking? Did he really think that we could win the game that way? Or had he resigned to losing before the game started and wanted to make the loss more entertaining? Why didn't he approach the game the way he did against SA last year and Australia the year before? He must have delusions of grandeur.

Snickers Man

Irish team was beaten before it went on to the park. A craven overawed apology for a performance by the wrong team playing the wrong game with the wrong attitude.

The All Blacks look on test rugby as warfare, hence all this haka nonsense about warriors and conflict. They go out to fight as if their lives depend on it. If they need to nuke somebody, they do it. Like they did to O'Driscoll in the summer. Like they did to Ken Catchpole, the Australian captain who was the best scrum half in the world in the 1960s. Like they did to the South African props in the 1950s.

Sometimes, just to rub it in, they do you in the last few minutes when miles ahead and with the result in no doubt. Hence Easterby got clocked again and had his nose injury re-opened. Bit like what happened to the Welsh second row in the 1987 world cup, with NZ 40 points clear in the last few minutes, he got headbutted twice in a maul by a Kiwi and then when he retaliated, he first got laid out by the All Blacks and then sent off for having had the temerity to object to his treatment.

The ref was as afraid of Shelford et al as the irish team was of this lot yesterday.

You HAVE to front up to the All Blacks. You have to let them know that you're not afraid of them. That you're not going to take any crap. That you're going to die in the attempt if necessary.

You have to treat them like the Turks did at Gallipoli. Wade into them. Take them on. Fight back at them. They respect you for that.

They respect the Turks. They don't respect us. How could they?

Respectul silence for the haka which always gives them a boost. here I blame the crowd as well. The Blacks may as well havebeen playing in ****ing Dunedin. I don't mean we should have booed;I mean we should have retorted, as they performed it. Positively. With song. And the team should have said '**** the guideliness. We're marching into them like Willie Anderson did all those years ago. Who would have stopped them? There were no officials in the way. Martin Johnson got away with bending protocol a few years ago; we would have done so yesterday.

Our backs played like headless chickens. If you're going to spin it wide, then for Christ's sake get organised to do it properly. Alighnment too flat. Balls passed over heads, to ground, behind people anywhere except where it should have been. They were clearly nervous and overawed, instead of pumped up, determined and confident.

O'Gara was crap. Stringer was woeful. Murphy was clueless. When did you last see himget hte ballin midfield Faff around wondering what to do with it and then boot it into touch on the full? Crap.

All of that was mental. They were too afraid of 'upsetting'the All Blacks and it showed.

The pack did all right in the tight. Won a bit of ball. But could never dominate. They never can against the AllBlacks. But what ****e use the backs made of it. Maybe they should have kicked more. Put them under pressure. Give our forwards something to play to.

The crowd was crap as well. No enthusiasm. No support, and half of them left early to get their ****ing prawn sandwiches.

Wasters.

We needed a few soldiers in the trenches yesterday. A Trevor Brennan.A David Wallace. Not the bunch of rabbits in headlights that we had.

Oh yeah. And the All Blacks played well too.

Sangre

We should have seen the lineouts were holding up and started playing a tactial posistion game. So what if its boring, we're not going to beat NZ on the outside or even inside missing BOD and Hickie.
Terrible play out the backline, dropping passes and forward passes everywhere. Terrbile, terrible play and none of it was forced by NZ.

We didn't play off our set pieces and we suffered big because of that.

We also need some backrows who know how to run in support of players

Crash

also - when we were having a number of sucessful robs in the lineout...WHY DID WE STOP CONTESTING THEM?!

Mungaman

Well lads that was pritty convincing. I think we have to hand it to the ABs they were too big too strong and far more skillfull than anything that Ireland had to offer. I know it was nothing like the side I watched last Autum that beat the then tri nations champions South Africa. In fact I couldn't belive how poor they played.
Get rid of Stringer
Get rid of O'Kelly
Get rid of Marcus Horan
Get rid of Eddie
Someone please please get rid of Dempsey
Someone please explain what happened to one of the most skilfull Fullbacks in the world over the last couple of years in Geordan Murphy? He doesn't even look a patch on where he was before he made the Lions.
Ireland is going to have to upskill and get alot faster and fitter. Concentrate on developing over the next couple of years on fast off loads and a new defence pattern.
You could do with employing a new defensive coach. The defence was one dimentional all day and unfortunatly it had alot of holes in it.
I hope the only game Nonu gets on the rest of the tour is a game of golf. He's an idiot for putting himself in that and the All Blacks position. Any news on what action has been taken? I think your going to see a new dangerous play clause with any tackle, on review, where the boots go over shoulder height will be red carded.
Apart from that I just think we were in a different leauge and unfortunatly Ireland made them loook even better. But you have to admit that pace , handling, tackling, reclycling of ball yesterday was awesome. Graham Henry has a nice problem on his hands with too many players to pick from for next week.
Lets hope Eddie can turn it round for the Australian match next week.
PS If any one wants I've a few tickets for the Romania match pm me and I'll be happy to pass them on

kermitdfrog

Dont' wish to take away from an awesome awesome display from the All Blacks. but want to focus on Ireland for a moment...

For the last 12 months EOs has been chastised for not using our backs - he does, and he's blasted again. No pleasing some people. The only times we looked like making any progress was when we ran it. ROG should have kicked more, granted, when there was nothing on, but to say we shoudn't spread it wide is defeatist - "Oh now, we cant do that, the ABs are better than us at that". The problem is not the wide game, but the slow support, something the All Blacks excelled at.

Also, there is NOT a lack of good players coming through - someone said Kearney is the only one. What about Trimble, Heaslip, O'Leary, Jennings, Hickie, O'Riordain, Cambell, the Bests, and further on the likes of Manning. The problem we have is that there are too few top class forwards in Ireland - we have great backs, and some phenomenal potential coming through. Heaslip is the only forward that springs to mind that if he lives up to potential will make a difference.

Ireland's problem is that we need a pack to (a) be capable of a high skilled game, like NZ, where all the forwards are capable of everything, or (b) a monster pack to physically dominate. Unfortunatelt we have neither, and until we do our backs, who CAN play a running attacking game, will be blunted

pcwares

watched it but well it was sheer class from ,the and heres my tupenny bit, ' a divisional country team' picked from a multitude of tongans, figians etc. Its fairness is called into question. As for the spectacle well it phenomenal. I will say the hand to ball and the pop up of the ball into pockets of space was psychic. Great to watch but a little heart breaking watchin gthe lads scramble about. Well done Horan getting some consilatory try.

About the game:

Ireland tried to match NZ until the first score. They kept hand to ball. Then after the first score o gara decided on kicking pressure - his first kick. Maybe they could have pressured them in the first 15 more strategically with kicks than going head to head with a side filled with pace and clever intriquet moves.

Stretch*

I was wondering if the number of Polynesian players who are elegible to play for the AB"s would comer up. Auckland our biggest city is also the largest polynesian city in the world, and as you are aware there are strict residential and playing criteria to be met before they can be AB"s. Many are NZ born and educated. I think in years to come, with the way the IRB treats Pacific Islands Rugby, more fijians, tongans etc will be looking to play for the AB's or Wallabies.

Hippo

It's inevitable that more islanders will want to play with the ABs in the future. Now, let's see, how many times have the ABs played in Samoa or Fiji? Hmm....

catseye2

what a poor show from our lads -

It wasnt a B team - it was half an A team. As someone who was there for the big showdown in Dunedin against springboks this summer,
lets not forget that mcdonald, mauger, weepu, williams, woodcock,melamu mccaw all started that game with howlett on the bench.
Although i reckon only williams, woodcock, mccaw and amuger will start against the english.

Ive also been amazed that in alll the guff about nonu's dangerous tackle on darcy, that every seems to have forgotten our man doing the exact same to a NZ centre first game on the lions trip ( tipoki i think)
Maybe just maybe they owed him one . !!
not condoning it at all, but we do ahave a selective memory at times

Stretch*

I don't think there is much scope for the AB's playing in the Pacific islands regularly. What is the point of walloping them 80 nil ..it does neither team any good. More to the point, the IRB needs to foster, fund and cultivate pacific island rugby so they can stand on there own feet. The Fijian union is so close to being financially broke it is not funny!
Perhaps Ireland could arrange reciprocal tours with the pacific island nations as it would be more even?

RuggieBear

Stretch* wrote:

Perhaps Ireland could arrange reciprocal tours with the pacific island nations as it would be more even?

Ireland has played more times in the pacific islands than NZ. I think the islanders would be better off if NZ and OZ didn't naturalise alot of their better players

Praetorian

I enjoyed the game. We were okay, but they were truely amazing. This was virtually their second team no matter what anyone says. We may have had a chance against their 3rd or 4th team I don't think England will stand a chance againt the All blacks either though; but they'll probably keep the score more respectable. It was a nice clean game for the most part. I'm glad to have seen the all blacks in action for the second time in my life against Ireland. Great stuff!

Hopefully we can improve for the next match, but more importantly, I hope we regroup and work out our flaws for the 6 nations next year.

daveirl

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p2kone

one of the few times when ireland made new zealand go backwards was midway in the second have when for a few phases at ruck situations Ireland picked the ball and ran low at the all blacks,

what was disappointing about the game was after the first ten minutes Ireland were just lame, i don't want to hear about how good new zealand were, they just stood there shell shocked, make stupid elementary mistakes, made it too easy for the all blacks to look class

full marks for getting the try at the end!!

Stretch*

I can't be sure you are correct that Ireland has played more times in the Pacific than the AB's? Fiji would provide some opposition, but Tonga ,Samoa would be demoralised at the result?
Re the naturalisation issue, do you realise many are born in NZ, educated here and are NZers? It's a fact that we will be a light brown coloured nation in 100 years time.

Stretch*

Evans was our 3rd choice number 10, what would Irelands 3rd choice have played like at that level. His crap kicking?...was Ok to me and his goal/penalty rate was excellent

RuggieBear

Stretch* wrote:

I can't be sure you are correct that Ireland has played more times in the Pacific than the AB's? Fiji would provide some opposition, but Tonga ,Samoa would be demoralised at the result?
Re the naturalisation issue, do you realise many are born in NZ, educated here and are NZers? It's a fact that we will be a light brown coloured nation in 100 years time.

Yep, i do realise that. But NZ is a powerful enough rugby nation without the likes of Sitiveni Sivivatu et al from the islands. I move to britain in my teens, i'd still like to think i'd play for ireland. How about Cau Cau...didn't he try to declare for NZ too.

RuggieBear

Stretch* wrote:

Evans was our 3rd choice number 10, what would Irelands 3rd choice have played like at that level. His crap kicking?...was Ok to me and his goal/penalty rate was excellent

ROG is the third best (possibly 4th best) outhalf in ireland at the moment:D

Compteipomi, Warwick and Humphries....then ROG

Stretch*

I think he did, but didn't qualify, there were also big question marks over his "lazy training" attitude, so maybe he might not have made it.
It's Sitiveni's choice to play for NZ, we cannot dictate where he pl;ays and with the professional era now here big time, he is always going to play for $$$$...wouldn't you?
I enjoyed the Irish match far more than the Welsh game. watching live here is at 3.30 am...!

Stretch*

I guess we'd all like to be selectors!...lol.

RuggieBear

Stretch* wrote:

I guess we'd all like to be selectors!...lol.

Admitedly the first two on my list are argentinian and australian respectively;)

Stretch*

Hmmm! hey, any thoughts on the Poms/AB's score? (Do you guys call them POMS?..over here it's almost universal in Aussie and NZ)
I think because we can match the Poms up front and especially in the front row, we should be able to out gun them in the backs and win comfortably..or am I being to cocky?

Amz

A lot of us have more colourful names for the English.

Stretch*

Tell me more...lol.

Amz

I'm sure you can use your imagination.

Stretch*

Aw shucks, remember I'm an AB fan!...actually I have just finished reading Edward Rutherfords book "Dublin" a fascinating book and a great read...I didn't take history at school so it was an eye opener...I can maybe guess at some of your local names for POMS.

RuggieBear

Isn't that a novel......he also wrote the princes of ireland. Anyway i digress.

i reckon the Packs will be equalish but i reckon the AB backrow will control the game especially if the ref allows them to get away with what they've managed in the last 2 games.

Stretch*

RuggieBear wrote:

Isn't that a novel......he also wrote the princes of ireland. Anyway i digress.

i reckon the Packs will be equalish but i reckon the AB backrow will control the game especially if the ref allows them to get away with what they've managed in the last 2 games.

Apart from their skin colour, the back row and their tactics are whiter than driven snow, we Kiwis reckon it is the POMS who kill or slow down the ball illegally.What do we do that is close to the legal limit?