Proliferating Spars and Centras

Ernie Ball

I'm I the only one who is shocked by the large numbers of new Spars, Centras, etc. in Dublin city centre? It seems that every vacant premises becomes another one of these with the exact same products as every other one. Can they really all be profitable?

It reminds me of the proliferation of mobile phone outlets in the late 90s or the internet cafes in the early 00s.

masterK

It makes you realise with so many small shops opening what utter rubbish the opponents of the groceries order have been talking.

Most if not all of these shops do breakfast and lunches which they seem to absolutely clean up on. As I don't recall a single one closing in Dublin City Centre I would presume they make a profit. It must be close to reaching saturation point though.

MorningStar

THey are there becasue there is a demand. If you don't want them don't shop in them. There are 7-11 all over the citiies in the US we just have different companies doing it.

comserv wrote:

It makes you realise with so many small shops opening what utter rubbish the opponents of the groceries order have been talking.

As people were talking about small shops in the suburbs having a ton of these stores in the city isn't much help. The fact that in some areas there are no large stores means that if there is a price drop it won't benifit these areas . These areas are the areas where poverty is the problem.

There are arguemnet for and against but you need to understand the logic to havve an informed decision.

Any Centra I know is a rip off.

An I believe it's the same crowd who own SuperValu. I think the Centra caters for the 'I'm in a hurry, I'll pay any price and run' market, whereas SuperValu caters for the more careful shopper who objects to getting screwed over...

Eoin

Deleted User wrote:

Any Centra I know is a rip off.

An I believe it's the same crowd who own SuperValu. I think the Centra caters for the 'I'm in a hurry, I'll pay any price and run' market, whereas SuperValu caters for the more careful shopper who objects to getting screwed over...

Same group alright, but I think the shops themselves are franchises. From this site:

Musgrave SuperValu Centra is the retail franchise division of Musgrave Group and services over 630 independently owned supermarkets and convenience stores throughout the Republic and Northern Ireland.

Do SuperValu have convenience stores, or still more of the small supermarket type shop?

beer enigma

eoin_s wrote:

Same group alright, but I think the shops themselves are franchises. From this site:

Do SuperValu have convenience stores, or still more of the small supermarket type shop?

Musgraves own the franchise for both SuperValu & Centra, so in effect any store thats below 5000sq ft (roughly) is designated a Centra and above that its a SuperValu.

Pricing is set by musgraves, so althought they are a franchise, they don't have direct control over the pricing....

MorningStar

Andip wrote:

Pricing is set by musgraves, so althought they are a franchise, they don't have direct control over the pricing....

I think you may be way over simplify this. Only certain items would be price controled in the first place to match in with group advertisements. Secondly even if they did give up control to Musgrave it would have price banding so that prices would vary a considerable amount.

I work with retails systems and there is no franchise that dictates the entire catalogue of goods there would be no business sense to it at all.

ctrl-alt-delete

whats the story with the centra on the corner of westmoreland st now changing to a londis - and everything getting ripped out of it for new stuff - seems a waste to me.

it is one of the most profitable sites id assume

MorningStar

ctrl-alt-delete wrote:

whats the story with the centra on the corner of westmoreland st now changing to a londis - and everything getting ripped out of it for new stuff - seems a waste to me.

it is one of the most profitable sites id assume

THere are a few things that could be happening.
1) The owner changed franchise (most likely)
2) A new lease to a new customer
3) The building was sold to Londis

I know I work with retailers but I am amazed how little people actually know about how they do things.

Slice

The owner of a number of stores had a dispute with Musgraves over product choice and pricing as far as I'm aware and so the franchise was terminated

ctrl-alt-delete

MorningStar wrote:

THere are a few things that could be happening.
1) The owner changed franchise (most likely)
2) A new lease to a new customer
3) The building was sold to Londis

I know I work with retailers but I am amazed how little people actually know about how they do things.

im not stupid....i obviously know one of the above happened, unlikely no. 3, i was just commenting on the downtime - the waste and time involved with refitting the shop etc etc,

ive seen a few centras become londis's

MorningStar

ctrl-alt-delete wrote:

im not stupid....i obviously know one of the above happened, unlikely no. 3, i was just commenting on the downtime - the waste and time involved with refitting the shop etc etc,

ive seen a few centras become londis's

If you knew what most likely happened why did you ask?

Some people think all the centra shops are owned by one company so how I am going to know what you know if you ask a specific question suggesting you don't understand?
I mean and meant no offense

ctrl-alt-delete

MorningStar wrote:

If you knew what most likely happened why did you ask?

technically i didnt ask anything, it was more of a statement, no offence taken anyway

TempestSabre

The prices in these shops are horrendous. Sometimes as much a 400% markup. However often theres no alternative nearby.

beer enigma

MorningStar wrote:

I think you may be way over simplify this. Only certain items would be price controled in the first place to match in with group advertisements. Secondly even if they did give up control to Musgrave it would have price banding so that prices would vary a considerable amount.

I work with retails systems and there is no franchise that dictates the entire catalogue of goods there would be no business sense to it at all.

Not so............

The deal between Centra/Supervalu & the musgrave franchise is that the franchise store MUST purchase a minimum of 90% of its goods through Musgrave SuperValu Centra (MSVC) in order to retain its franchise.

In truth, unless you are purchasing closer to 95%, your regional manager will cause problems with rebates etc. Of the goods purchased through MSVC, the wholesale price is set, MSVC transmit the price to your tills, so unless you discount at the point of sale, the till, then for 90% of your goods, you are dictated to by MSVC...

MorningStar

Andip wrote:

Not so............

The deal between Centra/Supervalu & the musgrave franchise is that the franchise store MUST purchase a minimum of 90% of its goods through Musgrave SuperValu Centra (MSVC) in order to retain its franchise.

In truth, unless you are purchasing closer to 95%, your regional manager will cause problems with rebates etc. Of the goods purchased through MSVC, the wholesale price is set, MSVC transmit the price to your tills, so unless you discount at the point of sale, the till, then for 90% of your goods, you are dictated to by MSVC...

That is purcahse price not sell price control! They still get to select wht they sell and for what margin they wish. The only reason to buy of Musgraves is becasue they supply at a cheaper price (they do compared to direct cash and carry). The objective for the franchise owner is to make more profit not be charged more. Why would they act the way you suggest?
You don't like it then avoid the stores when you can and completely if possible.

ferdi

wait till the tesco minimarts come to ireland in force, centra and spar will be out on their ears. give it 18 months.

murphaph

ferdi wrote: »

wait till the tesco minimarts come to ireland in force, centra and spar will be out on their ears. give it 18 months.

What's that ferdi?

JohnC.

Slice wrote: »

The owner of a number of stores had a dispute with Musgraves over product choice and pricing as far as I'm aware and so the franchise was terminated

Musgrave own Londis as well as Super Valu and Centra.

replytohere2004

Whatever happened to MorningStar?

ejmaztec

replytohere2004 wrote: »

Whatever happened to MorningStar?

One of life's mysteries.

ScouseMouse

Kahless wrote: »

Musgrave own Londis as well as Super Valu and Centra.

no they dont.

ScouseMouse

I own a symbol shop so I can speak on this.

Musgrave own the Supervalu and Centra names
BWG foods own the Spar name
Adm Londis own the Londis name.

Someone who owns/leases a building (like me) wants to have a shop in it. I can go to one of the above companies and take out a franchise agreement. I agree to buy a certain percentage of my stock from or through the company and go with their general policies. In return they give me various advantages. I can get central billing (where I order from coca cola, or brennans bread or any number of suppliers) and the bill goes to my head company. The head company negotiates deals and prices for all the shops in the group. Then they add up all my bills and charge it to me in one payment - less paperwork instore. I dont have to sign up to every supplier in the country as I name my group and my account number and they automatically know who I am and am approved for supply.

They have area managers that are on the road to give advice to me on whats hot and whats not. They can give me advice on any number of things. If I have a problem with any company and they are giving me the runaround, I can ring my head office and they will put a call in on my behalf. Faced with a head office intervening, all companies suddenly become reasonable.

Most of the shops are independantly owned (like mine) so each shop is free to set their own prices. Any attempt by the head company to dictate prices can fall foul of price fixing legislation. No one in the country can set a price for anything. The exception to this is cigarettes where the government has set a MINIMUM price. While you do get nationally advertised promotions, there is often small print that says participating stores only. However, the main companies are writing into the franchise agreements now, that the stores will agree to sell at the advertised price in this case.

If in dispute with a store in one of these groups, always talk politely to the boss instore first. The head office really does not have a say about what goes on instore. In my old job someone complained to Musgrave about the owner of my last job - a centra. The area manager visited the store and the owner told him to feck off and mind his own business. If the customer had something to say, he could come in anytime himself.

In the city centre, with all the passing trade these shops are springing up everywhere. There is cut throat competition. As one poster said, I see no shops closing. Well how about, Centra Dorset St, next to the Auld Triangle, Londis North King Street is up for sale, Centra Merrion row sold out to Spar next door Daybreak on the walkinstown roundabout and it goes on. A lot of shops are not making any money, mine is a management buyout and is only going for four months. I am just about breaking even. And more is still to come.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

nice post superscouse.

OP what has this got to do with consumer issues?

Eoin

I doubt the OP remembers after 2 years!

ScouseMouse

MURPHAPH must be very bored with boards if he is reading posts two year old!

JohnC.

superscouse wrote: »

no they dont.

Someone should tell Musgraves then. They seem to think they do.
http://www.musgrave.ie/ourbrandsa.php?id=28

ScouseMouse

Kahless wrote: »

Someone should tell Musgraves then. They seem to think they do.
http://www.musgrave.ie/ourbrandsa.php?id=28

Well spotted but if you read carefully it speaks of Londis UK. Its a different company completely. See here

http://www.londis.ie/zo7MA0o4Wz8Qmdw8arZAEeoj/About_ADM_Londis.aspx

murphaph

superscouse wrote: »

MURPHAPH must be very bored with boards if he is reading posts two year old!

Read your pm's SS, I was searching for a reason!

ScouseMouse

I have replied and would be delighted to help you.

murphaph

Thanks Superscouse, yer a gent.

murphaph

Londis is a funny one. Everyone thinks they originated in Ireland but Londis came from London District Stores and there are 2 entities called Londis in existence today. Musgrave appear to own the original UK one and as SS says ADM Londis own the irish one.

ScouseMouse

You learn something everyday.

Slice

What about the oft-forgotten Gala?

You can pretty much sum up the contents of your typical Centra or Spar and there's not much of a difference between the two of them; Cuisine de France bread, Wolf Blass wines, generic and samey sandwich filling along with any and every gossip mag under the sun - not to mention flakey sausage rolls and dried out fillers for breakfast toasties.

I live in Ranelagh and it took a new Superquinn in the neighbourhood for both Centra and Spar to up their game with revamped stores and, in the case of Spar, a more innovative product line.

tippbhoy

murphaph wrote: »

Londis is a funny one. Everyone thinks they originated in Ireland but Londis came from London District Stores and there are 2 entities called Londis in existence today. Musgrave appear to own the original UK one and as SS says ADM Londis own the irish one.

Musgrave bought the Londis UK brand about 4 years ago, they also own Budgens making the UK branch of Musgrave called MBL (Musgrave Budgens Londis)

I find the opening statements re Tesco coming into the convenience market and blowing the competition away from 2005 very interesting. While i have no doubt they will achieve a significant share over time, the convenience offering in the UK is a joke in most instances(stack high and cheap) and it'll be another 5 years before they make any headway until they change the Xpress offer to something original and not the supermarket cut down.

Why is this in consumer issues btw?

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

interesting thread, but not a consumer issue! Let's close this now!

stevoman

centra and spar.... a scurge on modern ireland!!!!

oneweb

Managed to get this opened and moved, 'cos I actually think it's quite interesting!

murphaph wrote: »

ferdi wrote: »

wait till the tesco minimarts come to ireland in force, centra and spar will be out on their ears. give it 18 months.

What's that ferdi?

Tesco Express, Talbot Street. Work in progress as of yesterday afternoon when I went past. As if there weren't enough shops along that street already!

They're looking for staff

tippbhoy

oneweb wrote: »

Managed to get this opened and moved, 'cos I actually think it's quite interesting!


Tesco Express, Talbot Street. Work in progress as of yesterday afternoon when I went past. As if there weren't enough shops along that street already!

They're looking for staff

Yeah it'll be interesting to see how it goes along with the other 3 SPARs on that street :rolleyes:

Tesco Metro will have a decent enough offer, small supermarket, good demand in high density areas such as the inner city areas.

Stevoman, we live in a free world, why are these shops a scurge, if you don't like them then go somewhere else. Basic supply v demand, they offer a service that people pay for.

SGTdewdew

These Spar's /Londis / Centras 'convenience' shops are only 'convenient'
if you live close to one. They charge twice what the product should retail
at - and they gobble up all the other shops in the hood within months.
Fairview I know has just lost 4 shops to the s't'upid Value Minimart there -
Even a big Londis disappeared under the mighty power of Irelands own
BALL*MART. Give it a 2 years and TESco will be all we can get.
Handy, seeing as you can now have a tesco wedding, a tesco mortgage,
car loan, insurance, holiday, petrol, clothing, food, DIY,
electrical, white goods and even a TESCO FUNERAL . . .
Soylent green anyone? :eek:

so, if ye don't like it... hit them where it hurts... right in the fiscal
nut-sack - boycott the stores you want to see vanish, don't shop
there, dont give them a single cent of your cash, never even look in
them, ask fiends and family to do the same 'just for for the goof'...
:rolleyes:

foshizzle........