TV3 tries to stop ITV fta in ROI

stuartfanning

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2095-1859085,00.html

TV3 issues legal challenge over ITV’s satellite move
The Sunday Times November 06, 2005
Ciaran Hancock

TV3 has initiated legal proceedings against ITV, which owns 45% of the Irish broadcaster, in an effort to prevent it from broadcasting via satellite to the republic.

ITV last week became freely available on satellite in the UK, a move that means 372,000 subscribers to Sky’s digital service in Ireland can now tune their dishes to receive ITV’s regional services, including UTV, and watch Coronation Street, Emmerdale and other shows that are big money spinners for TV3. It would also conflict with TV3’s live coverage of Uefa Champions League games.

The move has angered TV3’s management team, headed by Rick Hetherington, and prompted the Irish station to take action through the UK’s High Court. The company has engaged Clifford Chance, a leading London law firm, to pursue the case.

ITV paid £29.3m (€43.4m) to acquire its stake in TV3 in September 2000 in a move that also included a wide-ranging programme supply agreement. TV3 owns the exclusive rights to broadcast a number of ITV soaps, dramas and reality TV shows and believes that ITV is prohibited from transmitting these programmes to Ireland via satellite under the terms of the EU’s cable and satellite directive. This edict does not prevent ITV from being transmitted via cable by NTL and Chorus.

Commenting on the move, TV3 said: “TV3 has certain programming rights and will be taking all necessary steps to protect these rights. All legal steps have been followed and TV3 has commenced doing so.”

ITV refused to comment, while no comment was available from CanWest, the Canadian broadcaster that owns 45% of the Irish channel.

It is not clear whether TV3 is seeking financial compensation for the loss of exclusivity or whether it is seeking to have ITV’s channels scrambled or encrypted for Irish audiences, something that industry insiders say would be near impossible.

The move has surprised many industry watchers given that ITV owns such a large stake in the Dublin-based channel.

The action follows ITV’s decision last month to join Freeview, the free digital terrestrial TV service available to 5m homes in the UK. As a result of going free-to-air, Irish homes subscribing to Sky’s satellite service will be able to manually tune in ITV’s channels and store them under the “other services” function on their set-top boxes.

netwhizkid

They are some gobsh*tes, Thank goodness i now have ITV and UTv as after reading that i will be ding all my ITv oriented viewing on the ITV/Utv channels, and TV3 can shove their crap films sand their 5 to 8mins ad commercials which decumate every thing that is shown. Thank goodness for FTA as it can't be blocked to any distinct region like FTV can it? EPG or not, to hell with TV3 i hope they go bankrupt :mad:

channelsurfer

typical tv3. but I cant see it succeeding unless they are looking for compensation. Itv would have cleared all the rights issues with bernie eccelston for formula 1 and uefa for champions league and they will argue that its overspill and as long as itv is not on the irish sky epg tv3 dont really have a case .

already discussed in the ITV free thread

Niall1234

I've said this over at digital spy already.

Try sending an email to info@tv3.ie to show you dissatisfaction with TV3 taking ITV to court and tell them they should buck up and focus on their own programming, which at times is dour, not to mention their news coverage, which is farcical at times.

Mossy Monk

well done TV3

they are telling the people that ITV is available for free

Supercell

Lol good point Mossy Monk !!

Tony

channelsurfer wrote:

s itv is not on the irish sky epg tv3 dont really have a case .

I think they do have a case as this is a breach of the agreement they reached with Granada for exclusive rights for ITV content all other issues notwithstanding.

Tony

Tony wrote:

I think they do have a case as this is a breach of the agreement they reached with Granada for exclusive rights for ITV content all other issues notwithstanding.

I dunno Tony if they have any case at all and I'll tell you why.

They are not transmitting the programmes to the Republic of Ireland.
BSKYB arent either-its just that their receivers can receive them.

Only TV3 are transmitting ITV programmes in the ROI and that is an exclusive situation-nothing has changed there.

channelsurfer

one possible scenario is that itv could threaten to refuse to renew the agreement that gives them coronation street if tv3 actually do go to court.just a thought. how would tv3 react then.always a case of tv3 complaining about others and not trying to produce original programming except for direland am.

Dr. Nick

I stayed in a hotel in Kleve on the German side of the Dutch border once, I could choose from the German on Dutch coverage of CL football, how can it be different here?

Freddie59

stuartfanning wrote:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2095-1859085,00.html

Ah - non-starter I would think.

Richard

Dr. Nick wrote:

I stayed in a hotel in Kleve on the German side of the Dutch border once, I could choose from the German on Dutch coverage of CL football, how can it be different here?

It is the same with the Irish border. You can't stop analogue terrestrial signals. The difference with Satellite is, I suppose, that it can be encrypted.

But I don't really think that TV3 have a leg to stand on. ITV could refuse to renew all their programming rights and they'd be stuffed. How much of TV3 do ITV own, anyway? I wonder whether they'll buy the rest.

I do hope that RTE don't suffer too much from the UK FTA phenomenon, however. I didn't watch RTE much when I lived in the Republic, but even so - every country should have a national broadcaster, and it is important to preserve Irish culture.

Propellerhead

This is ridiculous.

TV3 are acting as if they are the Gestapo, trying to prevent access to enemy broadcasts.

They should be shown up for the muppets that they are. What is the best way to do this? There should be a concerted campaign of ridicule aimed at them.

mellow joe

Niall1234 wrote:

I've said this over at digital spy already.

Try sending an email to info@tv3.ie to show you dissatisfaction with TV3 taking ITV to court and tell them they should buck up and focus on their own programming, which at times is dour, not to mention their news coverage, which is farcical at times.

Thanks I just sent this email.




Hello I live about a mile away form your television centre in Ballymount.

I pay for a Sky in two rooms I have a mirror sub.

Unlike many of the brain dead morons that watch your channel and work in it I understand how to set up my widescreen television properly.

My Sky box is set to 16/9 my television is set to 4.3 and switches to 16/9 when it receives a widescreen transmission .

Sky has two major drawbacks lack of ITV including UTV and channel4 .
The first issue has been resolved with the great news of ITV making the switch to go free to air.
I was one of the people the tuned my boxes in on the first of November and added ITV1 ITV2 and ITV4 to sit along side the extra BBC channels.

I have read with some disbelief about you very dumb half baked idea to take ITV to court to protect your rights to rebroadcast ITV programmes to us poor viewers.
Lets take any of the ITV stuff you show ITV on all of their regions transmit these programmes in 16/9 widescreen with no logos of screen junk.
Your joke of a channel shows the programmes in 14/9 cropped screen in a 4.3 frame with a rather stupid 3 in the bottom right hand part of the screen.
The very same applies to the football your channel takes from ITV.


I can’t understand the TV3 complaint I mean the ITV channels have to be added through other channels a task that I am sure is well beyond the kind of viewer that is happy to watch ITV programmes arsed up on your ****ty little channel.

The best solution for Sky viewers in the republic of Ireland would be for ITV to pull all programme rights from TV3 and for Sky to add UTV to the 103 slot in the Irish EPG Electronic Programme Guide.

I use to think that Sky One was the worst kind of low budget bottom of the barrel cheap rubbish but I have to hand to you all at TV3 you have gone well past them in the race to the bottom.

Foggy43

This is one for the legal eagles. I see ITV own 45% of TV3. Perhaps we should see what the EU Satelitte and Cable terms and conditions are.

Granada, I am led to believe prevent us in the UK receiving the 4 Irish channels. If this goes to court it could be an interesting outcome. If ITV win what excuse will RTE have not to drop encryption?

Why worry now! Legal proceedings take ages!

byte

Heh, no holds barred in that email!

ro2

ITV will probably buy another 6% of TV3 and fire the entire management team

Supercell

mellow joe wrote:

Thanks I just sent this email.

Hehe, say it like it is mellow (anything but !!)

mike2084

I think if TV3 takes ITV to the UK High Court and wins, ITV should appeal to the European Court and I'm fairly sure that ITV would win as the EU always come down on the side of competition.

Mossy Monk

Molly Dawson wrote:

Granada, I am led to believe prevent us in the UK receiving the 4 Irish channels. If this goes to court it could be an interesting outcome. If ITV win what excuse will RTE have not to drop encryption?

Granada prevent RTÉ? where did you get that from

one excuse RTÉ would have would be the contract they have with Sky

Mossy Monk

Michael Walsh wrote:

I think if TV3 takes ITV to the UK High Court and wins, ITV should appeal to the European Court and I'm fairly sure that ITV would win as the EU always come down on the side of competition.

i think there is a hidden motive behind all of this. Granada suing ITV? it makes no sense

mike2084

Mossy Monk wrote:

i think there is a hidden motive behind all of this. Granada suing ITV? it makes no sense

Yes, That's what I thought- it's the case (literally) of ITV vs ITV

Michael Walsh

Michael Walsh wrote:

I think if TV3 takes ITV to the UK High Court and wins, ITV should appeal to the European Court and I'm fairly sure that ITV would win as the EU always come down on the side of competition.

LoL

Am I the only one to have got the sarcasm in that post straight away

BrianD

channelsurfer wrote:

typical tv3. but I cant see it succeeding unless they are looking for compensation. Itv would have cleared all the rights issues with bernie eccelston for formula 1 and uefa for champions league and they will argue that its overspill and as long as itv is not on the irish sky epg tv3 dont really have a case .

Yep a quick phone call into UEFA and Berni would sort that out ... not!

Fair play to TV3 and long may they continue to defend the programme rights that they own. When UTV acquire the rights for the RoI and better still get regulated here then I would see no issue of them being available on the Irish EPG. Afterall, if you were a shop owner would you be happy if another set up beside you selling your product range except the goods are stolen? I think not. TV3's actions in no way affects consumer rights of TV viewers in this country. Personally I don't watch either TV3 ot UTV and for most people here who seem to have little undertanding of the ITv/TV3 situation, I don't work for either broadcaster.

BTW Mellow did you honestly send that e-mail to somebody?

Sin e an Fear

BrianD wrote:

When UTV acquire the rights for the RoI and better still get regulated here then I would see no issue of them being available on the Irish EPG.

I agree that UTV should clear the rights for the RoI, but local regulation is a bit excessive. That's what they do in Canada - and when a US channel on cable shows the same programme as a Canadian channel, the cable operator has to show the Canadian broadcast. The equivalent would be Irish cable operators having to show TV3 advertising and continuity on UTV - but would people want that?

BrianD wrote:

Afterall, if you were a shop owner would you be happy if another set up beside you selling your product range except the goods are stolen? I think not.

Yeah, but these are free to air broadcasts, not encrypted - that comparison would only be valid if there were grey market or pirated viewing cards from the UK.

Propellerhead

BrianD wrote:

Yep a quick phone call into UEFA and Berni would sort that out ... not!

Fair play to TV3 and long may they continue to defend the programme rights that they own. When UTV acquire the rights for the RoI and better still get regulated here then I would see no issue of them being available on the Irish EPG. Afterall, if you were a shop owner would you be happy if another set up beside you selling your product range except the goods are stolen? I think not. TV3's actions in no way affects consumer rights of TV viewers in this country. Personally I don't watch either TV3 ot UTV and for most people here who seem to have little undertanding of the ITv/TV3 situation, I don't work for either broadcaster.

BTW Mellow did you honestly send that e-mail to somebody?

You are endorsing the right of TV3 to deny Irish Sky users access to ITV 1-4.
and proper use of widescreen for the programmes that TV3 broadcast as 14:9 cut-outs in a 4:3 picture. TV3's actions in no way affects consumer rights of TV viewers in this country? Thankfully FTA receivers and the upside down card trick make the kind of muppetry you endorse irrelevant.

bungeecork

Earthman wrote:

They (ITV) are not transmitting the programmes to the Republic of Ireland.
BSKYB arent either-its just that their receivers can receive them.
Only TV3 are transmitting ITV programmes in the ROI and that is an exclusive situation-nothing has changed there.

About the "We're not broadcasting into the ROI, but we can be received there" viewpoint;

- could it be argued that ITV DO broadcast into Ireland intentionally if UTV give UK and ROI phone numbers to XFactor and other phone-ins?

mickd

netwhizkid wrote:

They are some gobsh*tes, Thank goodness i now have ITV and UTv as after reading that i will be ding all my ITv oriented viewing on the ITV/Utv channels, and TV3 can shove their crap films sand their 5 to 8mins ad commercials which decumate every thing that is shown. Thank goodness for FTA as it can't be blocked to any distinct region like FTV can it? EPG or not, to hell with TV3 i hope they go bankrupt :mad:

Here here. TV3 are an embarrassment to the medium called television. Start making your own programmes or close down its as simple as that.

Sparky

Sure so what if tv3 loses its viewers, i always prefered Itv as they have a better line up than tv3, as pointed out, id say hardly anyone knew itv was fta untill tv3 highlighted it.
And anyways we didnt hear rte bringing bbc to court over it being fta with eastenders, no what did rte do, it made up for it with its HOMEMADE programmes and by turning to widescreen, tv3 needs to be more independent and make its own programmes.
the way tv3 is going on about things is like htv wales bringing itv london to court over giving a person the choice to view another region and not theres.
I think of tv3 and always did as ITV ROI.

Foggy43

Mossy!
This Granada thing goes back some time. It was when RTE had the rights on Emmerdale, Coronation Street and so on. Since ITV purchased a stake in TV3 the Granada produced soaps moved to TV3. I think RTE has Eastenders but they never contested BBC being Free to air.

Mossy Monk

they couldnt imo as they were showing Eastenders on satellite in Ireland before RTÉ did

Bards

Are TV3 also going to sue NTL and Chorus for showing ITV/UTV... they would have a stronger case here as NTL/Chorus actually provide a channel listing for those stations

Doe anyone know if Mr Murduch has any shareholding in CanWest!!!! If so it just might explain a few things.

Tony

Earthman wrote:

Only TV3 are transmitting ITV programmes in the ROI and that is an exclusive situation-nothing has changed there.

I guess it will depend on the exact wording of the clause and how the court interprets that.

Sponge Bob

mickd wrote:

Start making your own programmes or close down its as simple as that.

Hear Hear !!!

Mayo Exile

A new definition in stupidity: ITV Ireland going after itself in the courts. It's the same level of intelligence thats displayed when a dog decides to chase its own tail........

mellow joe

BrianD wrote:

Yep a quick phone call into UEFA and Berni would sort that out ... not!

Fair play to TV3 and long may they continue to defend the programme rights that they own. When UTV acquire the rights for the RoI and better still get regulated here then I would see no issue of them being available on the Irish EPG. Afterall, if you were a shop owner would you be happy if another set up beside you selling your product range except the goods are stolen? I think not. TV3's actions in no way affects consumer rights of TV viewers in this country. Personally I don't watch either TV3 ot UTV and for most people here who seem to have little undertanding of the ITv/TV3 situation, I don't work for either broadcaster.

BTW Mellow did you honestly send that e-mail to somebody?

Yes I did send the email to TV3 I have got no reply yet funny enough:D .

mellow joe

BrianD wrote:

Yep a quick phone call into UEFA and Berni would sort that out ... not!

Fair play to TV3 and long may they continue to defend the programme rights that they own. When UTV acquire the rights for the RoI and better still get regulated here then I would see no issue of them being available on the Irish EPG. Afterall, if you were a shop owner would you be happy if another set up beside you selling your product range except the goods are stolen? I think not. TV3's actions in no way affects consumer rights of TV viewers in this country. Personally I don't watch either TV3 ot UTV and for most people here who seem to have little undertanding of the ITv/TV3 situation, I don't work for either broadcaster.

BTW Mellow did you honestly send that e-mail to somebody?

Yes I did send the email to TV3 I have got no reply yet funny enough:D .

Buy the way ITV don't have the same product they have a much better one widescreen and no onscreen logos or screen junk.

maisflocke

Unision.ie quotes:

"They will be arguing in the English High Court that broadcasting the "unscrambled" signal breaches EU rules on transmissions which can be picked up by viewers across international borders."

If the muppets even try and use that arguement then there will be nothing to worry about lads...... they obviously do not know about the european directive "Television without frontiers" http://europa.eu.int/comm/avpolicy/regul/regul_en.htm

Genghis

bungeecork wrote:

About the "We're not broadcasting into the ROI, but we can be received there" viewpoint;

- could it be argued that ITV DO broadcast into Ireland intentionally if UTV give UK and ROI phone numbers to XFactor and other phone-ins?

No - because ITV / UTV legitimately broadcast to ROI via cable, which I understand is protected by some EU ruling re: overspill of terrestrial signals.

My hope is that the case will set a precedent - being that, so long as a national broadcaster takes all reasonable means to limit their broadcast to their territory, they they can negotiate, pay for and operate under national rights.

i.e. that ITV, BBC, C4, C5 could buy UK rights and not be stopped by Irish broadcasters, and vice versa for RTE / TV3 / TG4.

eirebhoy

mellow joe wrote:

Yes I did send the email to TV3 I have got no reply yet funny enough:D .

Buy the way ITV don't have the same product they have a much better one widescreen and no onscreen logos or screen junk.

I was just about to ask who someone would want to watch Coronation Street on ITV (instead of TV3) when they have to go to "other channels" and can't view the EPG. You've answered my question.

mellow joe

eirebhoy wrote:

I was just about to ask who someone would want to watch Coronation Street on ITV (instead of TV3) when they have to go to "other channels" and can't view the EPG. You've answered my question.

Have you got your television and digitbox set up the correct way?

Digibox should bet set to 16/9 widescreen and your television should be in 4.3 and when you select a widescreen channel your televison will switch into true 16/9 widescreen.

BrianD

BrianD wrote:

Fair play to TV3 and long may they continue to defend the programme rights that they own.

wheres the interference with programme rights.- theres satelite overspill thats all.BSKYB arent retransmitting UTV.I suppose we could alter their equipment so it couldnt receive this over spill in the ROI.

I know one man that would be proud of that decision-I understand that his countries TV's and radios are locked by law into receiving only their own nations broadcasts.
Heres a screenie of primetime

When UTV acquire the rights for the RoI and better still get regulated here then I would see no issue of them being available on the Irish EPG.

They dont have transmitters in the ROI-ergo I dont see the problem.
The EPG is just a programme guide that happens to be electronic.The next step would be to ban the TV Times as it encourages people to watch channels that can be picked up by overspill.Lets stop all Dáil business and legislate for that too :rolleyes:

Afterall, if you were a shop owner would you be happy if another set up beside you selling your product range except the goods are stolen?

That doesnt apply, the goods arent stolen.It's just that viewers from another jurisdiction can view them due to a coincidence of geography.Thats like saying it's raining in Dundalk and its Raining in Newry.
Newry is stealing our weather.

. TV3's actions in no way affects consumer rights of TV viewers in this country.

Thats true-because the only thing it affects really is TV3's bottom line in that the action is a ridiculous waste of money.

jister

Last night I walked into the room and "they" were watching heartbeat -on TV3, with the crappy reception. I educated "them" on how to watch it on ITV with superior quality reception.

RTE and TV3 need to wake up to the fact that offering free to air satellite is essential for them to survive.

Tazz T

Crazy stuff!

ITV have 45% ownership. It's almost as if TV3 are challenging ITV to attempt a hostile takeover of the company. They'd have more chance of successfully doing that than TV3 have of stopping them giving us ITV for free.

Edited to reflect comment below.

mellow joe

Tazz T wrote:

Crazy stuff!

ITV have 45% ownership. It's almost as if RTE are challenging ITV to attempt a hostile takeover of the company. They'd have more chance of successfully doing that than RTE have of stopping them giving us ITV for free.

What has RTE got to do with this?:rolleyes:


I think Bear in the Big Blue House is on RTE 2 so run along and watch it:D .

Our man in Havana

Earthman wrote:

I know one man that would be proud of that decision-I understand that his countries TV's and radios are locked by law into receiving only their own nations broadcasts.
Heres a screenie of primetime

That would be the top rated show in North Korea, "Dictator idol"?

BrianD

Quote:
Afterall, if you were a shop owner would you be happy if another set up beside you selling your product range except the goods are stolen?

That doesnt apply, the goods arent stolen.It's just that viewers from another jurisdiction can view them due to a coincidence of geography.Thats like saying it's raining in Dundalk and its Raining in Newry.
Newry is stealing our weather.

It does apply as it is exactly the situation. Digital satelite is a separate platform and each broadcaster negotiates to be on it. Therefore if they don't have the rights for part of the footprint then they don't get the coverage. BTW why do you want UTV? Why not Carlton or perhaps some obscure channel in Korea? BTW the comparison with Nth. Korea is utter nonsense.

Tony

BrianD wrote:

It does apply as it is exactly the situation. Digital satelite is a separate platform and each broadcaster negotiates to be on it. Therefore if they don't have the rights for part of the footprint then they don't get the coverage. BTW why do you want UTV? Why not Carlton or perhaps some obscure channel in Korea? BTW the comparison with Nth. Korea is utter nonsense.

Brian I really dont understand how you can take this view given your association with phantom FM which has in the past brodcasted illegally. I saw no complaints from you then about footprint/frequnecy theft?

(BTW I have no problem with phantom good luck with your new legal status)

BrianD

Tony wrote:

Brian I really dont understand how you can take this view given your association with phantom FM which has in the past brodcasted illegally. I saw no complaints from you then about footprint/frequnecy theft?

(BTW I have no problem with phantom good luck with your new legal status)

Tony I don't see the relevance to this particular debate whatsoever.

You are endorsing the right of TV3 to deny Irish Sky users access to ITV 1-4.

Yep! As Irish consumers have no particular right to view these channels no more than say a TV station in Seattle. There is no natural right Furthermore, these broadcasters have not acquired the programme rights clearance to serve Irish viewers.

It is important to understand that when negotiations between a broadcaster and a digital satellite provider it is on the basis that there is no overspill. The system allows for viewers in geographic locations to be included/excluded by means of the technology employed. Cable is different as it is a legacy system that evolved over time and yes I agree it is an oddity.

Furthermore, the situation is not caused by over-regulation by government as someone else suggested. It is mainly by private companies maximising the gain from their intellectual property rights.

Sponge Bob

BrianD wrote:

Tony I don't see the relevance to this particular debate whatsoever.

In the Glasshouses and Stones sense

Furthermore, the situation is not caused by over-regulation by government as someone else suggested. It is mainly by private companies maximising the gain from their intellectual property rights.

The problem is that a yellowpack operation that is reliant on a captive stream of programming from UK mothership , deliberately not having built up any programming capability itself in the 8 or 9 nears it has existed , is now suing that mothership .

I wish they would spend those millions on programming or on increasing their geograpic coverage footprint beyond the 60% of the Republic of Ireland they now cover. Had they provided Universal Coverage or near Universal Coverage I would tend to have some sympathy for them but they did not so they can go **** themselves . They are simply a parasite with no standards and are better off not existing , now or ever .

As long as TG4 gets The Shield the rest of this parasite can safely be killed off .