Trying to build a Sub €800 gaming machine - opinions on this?

pencil

3 months ago I built a pretty nice graphics machine for €1300 (no monitor). A mate amazed by my apparent magic skills (blind luck really) wants me to build a Gaming Machine for below €800. This I am finding is 'probably not possible' - currently I am at €912

The machine will just be used for gaming, browsing & doing CVs etc.

The requirments are:

• The machine has to look some bit decent, so I'm going for all black.
• Has to play the most recent games (Doom3 & hopefully HF2) in at least medium-to-'low-high' setting & get a desent frame rate @ 1024*768 (1280*1024 if possible)
• NEEDs to be some bit future proof (i.e. in 2 years he sticks a new graphics card in & its pretty hot again)
• Hoping to have a 19inch CRT

What do you guys think of this configeration ?
How do you think it would do with Doom 3 ? (he has played Doom 3 on my machine & is hooked)

Could you recommend a cheaper alternative to anything?

• €11.56 - Logitech Internet Keyboard (Black) - OEM
• €10 - Floppy
• €9.90 - Trust Ami Mouse 250S Optical 3 button mouse, scroll, PS/2
• €195.00 - Samsung 19" CRT Syncmaster 957p TCO99
• --- OR ---
• €200.93 - Hyundai ImageQuest Q995 19'' Perfectly Flat CRT Monitor
• €25.64 - MSI CR52-M 52x/32x/52x CD-ReWriter (Black) (+Nero 5 )
• €66.90 - Antec SLK1650B Black Quiet Mini Tower Case - 350W SmartPower PSU
• €76.00 - winMOS PC3200 DDR-DIMM 512MB CL2.5 Memory184-P (for DDR-PC400MHz)
• €205 - PowerColor Radeon 9800 PRO 128MB DDR AGP, ATI 9800PRO, DVI-I, TV-Out, Retail
• €62.90 - Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 80GB IDE ATA/100 2MB cache 7200RPM
• €85.99 - MSI K8T NEO-FSR Mainboard socket 754 K8T800, SATA/ATA, GbLAN, ATX, SOUND
• €158.99 - AMD Athlon 64 3000+ 2.0 GHz Socket 754, 512 KB cache, BOXED

Total = €912

Help me get price down a small bit more?

Mutant_Fruit

Komplett aren't the cheapest for monitors, try and check around elsewhere for that.

Ditch the floppy disc drive, its obsolete

I have the 17" Syncmaster, and i'm very pleased with it overall. But, 19" is qutie a bit more expensive. You can't really trim down on any of the other components. Ideally you'd have more ram and a DVD burner too Hell, you dont even have a DVD reader!!

If you want to reduce the pricetag, drop the monitor to 17", or order from another company. I wouldn't reduce the components to lesser spec ones.

pencil

Yeah dropping to the €115.00 - Samsung 17" CRT Syncmaster 793S TCO99 Monitor shaved €75 off the price. Will have to bite the bullet me thinks.

Where else does monitors cheaper? - shipping from afar doesn't seem like an option.

Do you think the spec could hand Doom3?

pencil

I have an old DVD reader that I'm giving him, do you reckon more RAM is needed?

davmigil

Would handle Doom 3 even better with a:

XFX 6600GT AGP 128Mb for €219

Sorry, have just raised price by €14 for something which komplett don't have in stock yet (but at least it will be in before the PowerColor 9800Pro is expected back in stock!).

If it were to be _really_ future proof you would need to be thinking PCI-express, but on that budget probably not (+choice still pretty dire on PCI-express MoBos). Impressive rig for the price though!

All the best,

David

pencil

Cheers David,

The graphics card is where I really am stuck - the gfx card suitation changes every 2 fu@king nanosecond & humm look at all them favours - makes choosing difficult.

Bass.exe

I tend to go for ATI cards, but in this instance, I'm going to agree with davmigil.
The 6600GT will likely be more capable. Especially in Doom 3.

You really need to look at PCI-E if you want to make it future-proof. But this means an extra 20 - 30 quid on mobo, and another 20 or 30 on GFX card. At least. Plus you have about 4 mobos to choose from.

Yeah at least 1GB of RAM is pretty much nessecary.
I, personally, would be looking for a bit more HDD for my buck, as a 160GB drive is not much more expensive... hmmm, overclockers has a special on this week.

Spunog UIE

try buy a monitor 2nd hand. Loads of 19" crts going, i got one a while back for 100 including a 4200ti which then sold for 40, prob coulda got 50 if I tried. Lovely flatpanel crt too.

Don't worry about PCI-E. By the time that it would make any difference at all you'll be upgrading your cpu and motherboard.

pencil

Yeah I'm going to ignore PCI-E & hope I'm not sorry.

I'm looking to keep the cost down this is to be a sophisticated Playstation

pencil

Is this one your talking about? €226.20 - XFX GeForce 6600 GT 128MB DDR3 TV-Out/Dual DVI (AGP) - Retail (GX-024-XF) is it that better than the 9800PRO ?

davmigil

Yip, same one. Apparently the 6600GTs beat the 9800Pro all round:

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2277

Haven't appeared in stock anywhere yet though..

Big problem with PCI-express boards I gather is that there are none yet that take Athlon 64s. Where bang for buck they look the best CPUs. Agree with Gideon on that one, not worth worrying about. Have always found need to upgrade MoBo when upgrading chip anyway, as something has always changed (like Intel going from 533 to 800Mhz etc.).

Nukem

Did you try www.jes.de for stuff ,some of the monitors are cheap.
Also a 6600GT PCI-E is 215
Also try OcUk for the 6600gt,try Dabs as well.

secret_squirrel

Also you really want to go for socket 939 + a64 3000+ for future proofing too - will probably add to the price though but you will get the benifit of an instant overclock out of it - maybe enought to justify a cheaper gfx card with an upgrade further down the line.

astrofool

the 2800+ is about €30 cheaper than the 3000+.

Floppy drive is needed to load motherboard ata drivers usually (depends on board).

www.overclockers.co.uk have some specials on this week that might help

jozi

What about a mobile amd 2500+/2400+, if you dont have to go 64. They oc real easy to 2.5ghz, might not be as good as 64 but still not so bad. You prob save money then on the cpu and mobo so more for ram or gfx.

Jozi

pencil

davmigil - thanks for that great link!

Cheers Nukem, I'd forgotten about Jes - has anyone used them? (to get a monitor?)

astrofool - I'm going to drop to the 2800 - good point.

This is all about the budget - I'll post the new spec in a bit - may be of use to some one else.

As its not my machine - I want to stay away for OCing

davmigil

You can manage without a floppy drive, its tricky, but possible. For flashing MoBo you can save the floppy image to a virtual floppy drive (will find link if anybody wants it) and then use this to burn a bootable Cd-R(W). Admittedly a bit painful to save €9!!

quarryman

That 6600 looks good for the price. anyone like to give some first hand experience on it? and justify it as a christmas present to myself?

Woden

due to recent articles i've started recommending the agp 6600GT's to everone over the 9800pro's as mentioned in the anandtech article the XFX version comes clocked at 500/1000 which is the actual clock speeds of the pci-e 6600GT while nvidia's reference board for the agp version is at 500/900

i'd be looking at socket 939 as well and also one of the 90nm athlon 64's would be worth it even if it was a little over budget.

pencil

Thanks for all your suggestions, can you have another look at this.

The requirments were:

• The machine has to look some bit decent, so I'm trying to for all black.
• Has to play the most recent games (Doom3 & hopefully HF2) in at least medium-to-'low-high' setting & get a desent frame rate @ 1024*768 (1280*1024 if possible)
• NEEDs to be some bit future proof (i.e. in 2 years he sticks a new graphics card in & its pretty hot again)

• 11.56 - Logitech Internet Keyboard (Black) - OEM
• 10 - Floppy
• 9.90 - Trust Ami Mouse 250S Optical 3 button mouse, scroll, PS/2
• 115.00 - Samsung 17" CRT Syncmaster 793S TCO99 Monitor
• --- OR ---
• 133.77 - Hyundai ImageQuest Q770S 17'' Perfectly Flat CRT Monitor - Black/Silver
• 25.64 - MSI CR52-M 52x/32x/52x CD-ReWriter (Black) (+Nero 5 )
• 66.90 - Antec SLK1650B Black Quiet Mini Tower Case - 350W SmartPower PSU
• 76.00 - winMOS PC3200 DDR-DIMM 512MB CL2.5 Memory184-P (for DDR-PC400MHz)
• 212.17 - GeForce 6600GT 128MB AGP DVI-I
• 56.05 - Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 9 80GB 6Y080PO ATA-133 8MB
• 85.99 - MSI K8T NEO-FSR Mainboard socket 754 K8T800, SATA/ATA, GbLAN, ATX, SOUND
• 128.78 - AMD Athlon 64 2800 Newcastle 130nm (Socket 754) - Retail

Total = 816.76 (ex shipping) Not a bad price!

Okay some questions:
What do you guys think of this configeration - any problems ?
How do you think it would do with Doom 3, HF2 & BF ?
Has anyone got either monitor? do you like ?

I need Case suggestions - remember - we're cheap b@stards here!

kinkstr

just spotted this a minute ago
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ci.asp?sku=10058

Nukem

kinkstr wrote:

just spotted this a minute ago
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ci.asp?sku=10058

256mb ram for gaming
9200 Graphics card
AND QTEC :eek:

try www.xcase.co.uk for the case and PSU.Dunno bout there rep.But the lads from Tweakin/Modding recommended them and they have nice cases and cheap ones too

they have the Irish flag on the homepage usually a good sign

pencil

Cheer Nukem great link

Any opinions on this:

€58.55 - ATX-C8001 Black/Silver With Combo member:SP-380 Watt Speakers,KB-2616,Optical Mouse M-2018

A review (of sorts) here: http://www.xcase.co.uk/Reviews/colours_Atx_L8013_%20review.htm

Am I asking for trouble? - speakers, mouse, keyboard, Case & 380watt PSU for €59

pencil

This looks okay to: €29.30 Compucase 6C28 Special

+ £10 for the Compucase HEC 385 Watt Dual fan Psu, Dual Fan, SATA Connector.

Review of sorts here

What do think?

davmigil

Seems perfect for your budget. 380 wattage on powersupply (presuming it is alright) might come in handy. Definitely let us know how the case (and build) turns out!

Nukem

pencil wrote:

Cheer Nukem great link
€58.55 - ATX-C8001 Black/Silver With Combo member:SP-380 Watt Speakers,KB-2616,Optical Mouse M-2018

MMMMMMMMM
Would be sketchy about the PSU but i bet if you drop them a mail ask the make and warranty of the parts and a link would be nice u could decide then.
Rest of it looks fine dont it.

If all comes to all they have recommended PSU's for about 30-40euro
That would still do ya.Another thing the 6600GT is 128/256mb-128bit(i think)
A 9800 pro is a 128/256mb with 128/256bit might be better.
But think they is roughly the same.(overclocking an option?)

Mr. Presentable

Have you looked at ebuyer.co.uk?

Mr. Presentable

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=147317

GFX card slightly cheaper here. Also good range of cases

davmigil

I am shamelessy ripping this off a friend who emailled me this recently:

Card/Pipelines/Memory/Memory Interface/GPU Speed/Memory Speed
GeForce 6600 8PP - 128/256 MB - 128 bit - 300/550 MHz
GeForce 6600GT 8PP - 128/256 MB - 128 bit - 500/1000 MHz*
9800Pro 8PP - 128/256Mb - 256bit - 380/680 MHz
GeForce 6800LE 8PP - 128 MB - 256 bit - 300/(500-700) MHz
GeForce 6800 12PP - 128/256 MB - 256 bit - 325/700 MHz
GeForce 6800 GT 16PP - 256 MB - 256 bit - 350/1000 MHz
GeForce 6800 Ultra 16PP - 256 MB - 256 bit - 400/1100 MHz
X800Pro 12PP - 256Mb - 256bit - 475/900Mhz
X800Xt 16PP 256Mb - 256bit 500-520/1000-1120Mhz
+ some more variations like X800SE etc.

*PCI-express, nvidia agp spec 500/900, some like XFX AGP are 500/1000 though

Still very tricky to compare. Also variations in memory used by cards (some GDDR1, some GDDR3).
Any recent benchmarks I have seen put 6600GT significantly ahead of 9800Pro (regular 6600 significantly behind though). Hopefully Tom's Hardware will update their VGA charts soon.

Nukem

Dav man you are right. I is wrong the 6600 GT strips the 9800 pro
Found this on Tech Report. Here nearly convinced to get 2x6600gt in sli if they perform better than a 1x6800gt.Cheaper as well :rolleyes:

davmigil

Good article Nukem. I see at the start of it they mention they have previewed 'Athlon 64 chipsets with PCI express support' wonder when they will be out. Now that coupled with SLI would give a sweet rig..

Just googling SLI, this article compares 2x6600GT to 1x6800GT (and to 2x6800GT....nice upgrade path!)

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2248&p=3

I have €200 to spend on a GFX card, so AGP it will have to be for me :rolleyes:

Woden

nforce 4 out soon

preorder asus one here

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/asus_amd_motherboards.html

you can pre order an msi one as well

Bass.exe

Just want to point out, if you want to "just stick a new GFX card in" in 2 years time, you'll pretty much NEED PCI-E. It won't make any difference now, but they're planning on phasing out AGP over the next generation.

pencil

Bass.exe wrote:

Just want to point out, if you want to "just stick a new GFX card in" in 2 years time, you'll pretty much NEED PCI-E. It won't make any difference now, but they're planning on phasing out AGP over the next generation.

****e - you reckon APG is gone in 2 years?

Feck I was sorted & had the price down to €764 (sourcing from everywhere - I'll post details up tomorrow)

Nukem

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipset...aspx?i=2248&p=3

Oh yes my friend now thats an article.Outstanding
Have to take this out of here and put on a seperate thread it aint fair on pencil
Cheers again and thanx to Dataisgod as well4 d heads up.

pencil

If anyone is in the know with this PCI-E sh!te could you post a couple of links to MB - GFX & Chip. After all my searching my heart iisn't in it anymore

Nukem

Dont freak out that much pencil.A comp is out of date the min you buy one.
Its cool chill.Think of how long it will take to phase out the AGP 1/2 years they plan to keep making cards and parts,the rumour goes.
But PCI-E hasnt scratched the surface of its potential.SLi example.
Tried to price a PCI-E rig for ya there,not good.1,000 at least.
DDR2 is the killer price tag:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

davmigil

Shiver, just looking at PCI (the old kind) on komplett:

Choice: 2

Sapphire radeon 9200SE 128Mb €51 (7 stocked)
and XFX 5200 256Mb €105 (backordered)

How soon before AGP looks like that....

Nukem

Crisis over Pencil.Told ya to chill dude.All woks out.
There are half and half mobos.775 socket with a PCI-E x 16
and has capacity for DDR as well.Sound good.....here

And you can plug in higher grade Ram later when ya need it

pencil

Hey cheers Nukem,

Its an option but with financial restrictions on this - feck it I'll upgrade the MB in a couple of years & save myself the extra €60 now - cheers though!!

Nukem

NO no.Thats only an example.The mobos are roughly the same price like this one is 90euro :eek: here
IF i come across anymore ill let ya know?

pencil

Ahh ha - interesting !! - & I thought my work here was done!

pencil

Nukem, I is looking at that but Abit AS8-V Mainboard for S775, DDR400 I865P,SATA,ATX,LAN,Dual-DDR,AGP8x but can't find a reference to PCI-E, how do you know its compatible (Socket 775 ?).

Do the dual compatible board only come in an Intel flavour?

Nukem

Ya man.Komplett dont have a great selection of them only 2.That one is a real weird one. Socket 865 mobo and a 775 cpu socket and an AGP ?
Just have a look around and there is bound to be a few.Il check OCUK for ya there.

tuxy

ok i havent read all the thread but if your friend wants to play half life 2 good he will need 1 gb of ram with 512 mb it can lock up a bit when entering new areas