Changing car - any advice

Pinkchick03

Hello everyone

Currently i'm driving 98 Clio (old shape) and am thinking of changing it! Find there is no lift when I am driving it, so want to buy something of higher cc - its only 1149 cc. So looking for something about 1.4 or something! Any advice what kind of car I should get? Thinking of buying brand new, would I be foolish? Any idea how much I'd get for my car, its 98 Clio, 3 door, 54k cool cd player with remote control, driver airbag. Nifty and comfortable car?!

Thanks any advice appreciated!

yop

Depending on where you living I might take it off your hands. My wifey is looking.

I saw a one there in Monaghans in Castlebar there the other day. The details were as follows.

Following your recent enquiry regarding a 98 Renault Clio we have in stock :

Reg. : 98 D 64110
No. owners : 3
Mileage : 87,760
Cash Price : 3,500
Warranty : 3 months
1.2 Engine / needs 2 tyres on front

Pinkchick03

I live in Dundalk!

Since mileage not too high I'd be expecting around €4500 for it!

alias no.9

I don't mean to rain on your parade but you might be disappointed. €4500 is a little bit ambitious for a private sale, in fact, it would possibly even be a bit on the high side from a forecourt. When you say old shape, I presume you mean the facelifted version of the original clio that came out in 1991. I don't think the market is very strong for these, getting €3000 for it on a private sale would be a result, I have a friend who bought a 97 one from a garage about 9 months ago for €2,600. You'd probably get < €2500 as a trade in.

Pinkchick03

Oh i know! I am being a bit too ambitious looking for 4500 for it! maybe 3500! but not gettin into my car. the main reason for this post was advice on buying a new car with higher engine capacity!

Canis Lupus

then get a ford focus 1.4..... heh... im gonna keep plugging the focus from now on i think

Shilo

I bought a 99 Megane hatchback for just under €5000 in August when some silly cow drove into the side of my Micra. I love it, it's a 1.4l. Never thought I'd be able to afford one but I guess I got lucky. It was in excellent condition, though I grant it had higher than average mileage. it's not the sexiest car in the world by a long shot but then I have 2 small children so I needed something practical. Would you consider another Renault or do you want something different? The insurance co. lent me a 04 Focus for 2 weeks after the crash - I have to admit it was a lovely car to drive but I still wouldn't buy one new.

dcGT

A 1.4 Focus/Almera etc. would probably be as quick off the mark as a 1.2 Clio. (Slightly bigger engine, but a slightly bigger body too) ...power-to-weight ratio etc. If you're looking for something with a little more grunt, is there really much point in getting something like this?

Also, personally, I'd NEVER buy a brand new car in this country especially. Unless I liked to throw money away

DC.

Pinkchick03

Shilo wrote:

I bought a 99 Megane hatchback for just under €5000 in August when some silly cow drove into the side of my Micra. I love it, it's a 1.4l. Never thought I'd be able to afford one but I guess I got lucky. It was in excellent condition, though I grant it had higher than average mileage. it's not the sexiest car in the world by a long shot but then I have 2 small children so I needed something practical. Would you consider another Renault or do you want something different? The insurance co. lent me a 04 Focus for 2 weeks after the crash - I have to admit it was a lovely car to drive but I still wouldn't buy one new.

I would love a Renault Megane to be honest! Other than that no, not really fussy about getting another Renault! Just want something with a bit more power! Somethign like a 1.4!

Pinkchick03

dcGT wrote:

A 1.4 Focus/Almera etc. would probably be as quick off the mark as a 1.2 Clio. (Slightly bigger engine, but a slightly bigger body too) ...power-to-weight ratio etc. If you're looking for something with a little more grunt, is there really much point in getting something like this?

Also, personally, I'd NEVER buy a brand new car in this country especially. Unless I liked to throw money away

DC.

do you mean that a 1.4 focus/almera would have same power as a 1.2 clio??

dcGT

Pinkchick03 wrote:

do you mean that a 1.4 focus/almera would have same power as a 1.2 clio??

Not exactly, what I mean is that although the e.g. Focus has a bigger engine, it is also a bigger car, therefore, some of the extra power you get from the bigger engine will be lost due to the fact that engine has to also carry the extra weight of the car. The 1.6 Focus would be a better option if you're looking for something a bit quicker. This make sense?

DC.

Pinkchick03

dcGT wrote:

Not exactly, what I mean is that although the e.g. Focus has a bigger engine, it is also a bigger car, therefore, some of the extra power you get from the bigger engine will be lost due to the fact that engine has to also carry the extra weight of the car. The 1.6 Focus would be a better option if you're looking for something a bit quicker. This make sense?

DC.

Yep I get you now!! LOL! yeah looking for something a bit quicker. So a 1.4 in a smaller version of a car would be better for eg. 1.4 peugeot or something??

BrianD3

The 1.4 Focus is a slow car. If you upgrade to a Focus expecting it to have more go than your 1.2 Clio, you'll be disappointed.

Much more lively is the old model Megane 1.4 16v which was produced 1999-2002. The engine in it is pretty powerful for a 1.4 plus the car itself is relatively light.

BrianD3

yop

shame, Dundalk a bit far tbh.

Anyway I had a 1.4 Megane, lovely car to drive and pokey enough. Much more so than the 1.4 Focus, do not touch the 1.4, body is much too heavy for the engine, get the 1.6 Zetec if you can afford to go a little further, have one and would buy another in the morning no bother, that is IF petrol cars were not getting so dear to run

Shilo

I freely admit that I know nothing about cars but my experience ran directly in opposition with the last two posters. The Focus I was lent, albeit practically a brand new car, (I was soooo scared of getting it scratched - I couldn't put myself through the heartache of having a new car for that reason alone!!) was really nippy. It was a hatchback (dunno why but I prefer h/b's generally) and I remember thinking that it really went for it. The Megane, on the other hand, is quite heavy and I feel like I really have to put my foot down to get anything out of it. Don't get me wrong, I love it. But if I was looking for speed, I'd be in line for a Focus. Plus, the Megane feels a lot heavier to drive than the Focus... Considering they both have 1.4 engines, the difference is staggering to me anyway!

Pinkchick03

yop wrote:

shame, Dundalk a bit far tbh.

Anyway I had a 1.4 Megane, lovely car to drive and pokey enough. Much more so than the 1.4 Focus, do not touch the 1.4, body is much too heavy for the engine, get the 1.6 Zetec if you can afford to go a little further, have one and would buy another in the morning no bother, that is IF petrol cars were not getting so dear to run

why where are you, are you in Dublin??

is a Zetec a Renault?

Shilo

Megane's on CBG here might be worth a look if you like the sound of them. Don't know if it's a concern of yours but because they have such a good safety rating, they tend to be quite easy on your insurance budget....which is an added bonus I thought!

dcGT

Pinkchick03 wrote:

is a Zetec a Renault?

Zetec is a particular type of Engine used in Fords.

DC.

yop

Nope down in Mayo.


The Zetec is a model of the Focus. You also have LX and Ghia

BrianD3

There are two types of Megane 1.4. A Megane with the 1.4 8 valve engine (75 bhp) might feel slower than a Focus alright. Maybe this is the engine that shillo has. A Megane fitted with the 1.4 16v engine (98 bhp) should blow a 1.4 Focus away.

BrianD3

Boggle

Personally I drive a 1.4L '99 Astra (Club)... Have no complaints with her and she'll generally stick to anything thats trying to get away from me (up to a certain speed anyway) Worth a look along with the rest but think the focus is severely underpowered for the weight in it....

You's get one for well under 7G I'd imagine.

Shilo

BrianD3 wrote:

There are two types of Megane 1.4. A Megane with the 1.4 8 valve engine (75 bhp) might feel slower than a Focus alright. Maybe this is the engine that shillo has. A Megane fitted with the 1.4 16v engine (98 bhp) should blow a 1.4 Focus away.

BrianD3

Apparently, according to a friend of mine who knows these things, pre '99 Megane's had the 8 valve and are slower. Mine has the 16v and her opinion is that I just don't push the car hard enough - she may have a point on that! (She has the same car as me in the UK - they have motorways to practice on!) But having said that, I could get the Focus to 85 without trying and in little or no time at all, whereas my Meggie is sounding pretty forced if you get her past 75.

To be fair, I don't tend to step on it very often because I've only really been driving properly since June and I still feel like a learner most of the time so unless I have a very clear and fairly long stretch of road, I'm quite happy to amble along at 50/60. But considering the speedo goes up to 150 or so, I have to say I'm doubtful. I think the engine would probably explode at around 90/95!

jayok

If you want something with a little zip then conside a 1.4 hatchback Civic. They can look sporty and the engine certainly spins freely in it - quicker than the 1.4 focus and megane and not bad handling either. The 99-01 is probably your best bet as some people really dislike the new one.

The only drawback (and I await backlash from the forum) is the amount of boy-racers that have them. Seems to attrach a knacker image - but if you shop around you get a respectable looking one loaded with electrics, alloys, etc for about 6k with a service history.

I did have a '99 one that I've since sold, loved it to bits, metallic silver, electric sunroof, windows, mirrors, CD, etc. It wasn't knackered up (I used it for work going to customer sites, etc.) It's reliability was excellant. Sold it to a 21yr old girl who seemed to be on the lookout for one.

JayoK

Pinkchick03

Shilo wrote:

Megane's on CBG here might be worth a look if you like the sound of them. Don't know if it's a concern of yours but because they have such a good safety rating, they tend to be quite easy on your insurance budget....which is an added bonus I thought!

cheers I'll have a look

Lexie

What about a 1.4 Golf? Think there kinda nice. Maybe '99 or '00?

Pinkchick03

Yeah cool! I'd like a golf!

alias no.9

A 1.4 golf is dreadfully slow, probably slower than your clio. They hold their value quite well but in general they're overpriced, overrated, underpowered and underspeced.

Pinkchick03

Ye all have me utterly confused LOL!

ambro25

DO Citroen do a C2 in 1.4? They used to do (and I used to have) a 1.4 AX, and that would climb up trees (I used to burn 205 1.6 GTIs at red light, what fun to see the faces ).

IO'd say it depends on size. Good arguments re bigger car/bigger engine/no gain: so what size car are you looking for?

fightin irish

i wont go into the pro's and con's of this debate....But the new Focus was launched last week meaning the mark 1 focus has and will come down in price considerbly in price. Never a better time to get a 02/03 Focus.

TBH i work in the motor trade and the Focus is streets ahead of a megane in terms of engine and most noteably(spelling?) handling on the road, which the Focus is famed for.

Well thats my 'tupenny bit'

Pinkchick03

ambro25 wrote:

DO Citroen do a C2 in 1.4? They used to do (and I used to have) a 1.4 AX, and that would climb up trees (I used to burn 205 1.6 GTIs at red light, what fun to see the faces ).

IO'd say it depends on size. Good arguments re bigger car/bigger engine/no gain: so what size car are you looking for?

What year is your citreon?? I saw the new shape citroen c2 - they are lovely

I have a 1.2 Clio and want a slightly bigger car - nothing too big - i think max size i'd change to would be a 1.6 (for insurance and tax reasons) also don't want anything too big/wide/long - sooo used to my little car - easy to park etc!

Pinkchick03

fightin irish wrote:

i wont go into the pro's and con's of this debate....But the new Focus was launched last week meaning the mark 1 focus has and will come down in price considerbly in price. Never a better time to get a 02/03 Focus.

TBH i work in the motor trade and the Focus is streets ahead of a megane in terms of engine and most noteably(spelling?) handling on the road, which the Focus is famed for.

Well thats my 'tupenny bit'

I have been considering the focus - but is the 1.6 better than the 1.4 power wise?? some one said a 1.4 focus is just same as 1.2 clio cos its bigger car/bigger engine - no gain as ambro25 said! So how much would you reckon a focus will be next year - as in to buy a 2002 one???

fightin irish

Come Janurary i think tey are starting to go for 11,000(this is main dealer price)

so i would assume a private deal to be 10500 or so. 1.4 only.

There is a fairly big difference in the 1.6 to 1.4...as some one said the 1.4 IS very firey.

Pinkchick03

fightin irish wrote:

Come Janurary i think tey are starting to go for 11,000(this is main dealer price)

so i would assume a private deal to be 10500 or so. 1.4 only.

There is a fairly big difference in the 1.6 to 1.4...as some one said the 1.4 IS very firey.

Cool! Do you work in a garage - and get me a car for cheap??? LOL

BrianD3

I have to say that Renault have Ford beaten when it comes to the performance of their small petrol engines. A Focus 1.4 16v develops 74 bhp while the same size engine in a Megane II develops 98 bhp. The Focus is also beaten by a 1988 Renault 19 with its 1.4 litre 8 valve carburettor engine (output of 80 bhp)

Same story with the 1.6. Megane 115 bhp. Focus 99 bhp.

The Renaults are also torquier although the Fords do claw back some ground by developing peak torque and power at slightly lower revs. From driving the Focus it does feel quite lively in urban driving (maybe due to low gearing) however overall the Renaults are better performers.

BrianD3

fightin irish

BrianD3 wrote:

I have to say that Renault have Ford beaten when it comes to the performance of their small petrol engines. A Focus 1.4 16v develops 74 bhp while the same size engine in a Megane II develops 98 bhp. The Focus is also beaten by a 1988 Renault 19 with its 1.4 litre 8 valve carburettor engine (output of 80 bhp)

Same story with the 1.6. Megane 115 bhp. Focus 99 bhp.

The Renaults are also torquier although the Fords do claw back some ground by developing peak torque and power at slightly lower revs. From driving the Focus it does feel quite lively in urban driving (maybe due to low gearing) however overall the Renaults are better performers.

BrianD3

Thats a fair point!! TBH bhp is a thing of the past and cars are not measured by this anymore...only glossy car mags still do this.

Most modern engines(not carb engines..again a thing of the past) are measured by whats called 'P S'.
Anywho, each to thier own.

BrianD3

Most modern engines(not carb engines..again a thing of the past) are measured by whats called 'P S'.

That's true, but 1 bhp and 1 PS (which is a metric unit) are almost the same quantity and virtually interchangeable for normal family cars. I believe the conversion factor is 1 bhp = 1.014 PS. Hence A 1.6 Focus has 100 PS or 99 bhp.

Yes, I am a nerd

BrianD3

fightin irish

WOW I'M IMPRESSED :cool:

dcGT

BrianD3 wrote:

I have to say that Renault have Ford beaten when it comes to the performance of their small petrol engines. A Focus 1.4 16v develops 74 bhp while the same size engine in a Megane II develops 98 bhp.

I was just checking the specs for the Focus and Fiesta. The 1.4 Focus and 1.25 Fiesta produce the same power (75 PS), with the focus doing better in the Torque measures (123 Nm vs. 110 Nm). Interesting.

DC.

Pinkchick03

dcGT wrote:

I was just checking the specs for the Focus and Fiesta. The 1.4 Focus and 1.25 Fiesta produce the same power (75 PS), with the focus doing better in the Torque measures (123 Nm vs. 110 Nm). Interesting.

DC.

Holy god this post has changed into a mathematical one! he he! All i want is advice about changing the car - too many figures scare me LOL!! So....

Mayshine

Most modern engines(not carb engines..again a thing of the past) are measured by whats called 'P S'.
Anywho, each to thier own.

PS - PferdeStarke - German for guess what -- hosre power. Still a little imperial don't you think.

Most car engines are measured by whats called an engine dynometer... The rating is in KiloWatts (KW) and usually coverted to PS or BHP depending on the market

Sorry to be a geek here




Anyway on the engine sizes here goes (all 5dr basic spec, current models) order in terms of power - Higher better

Stilo 1.4 - 1010Kg, 70Kw = 69.3 Kw/tonne
Corolla 1.4 - 1110Kg, 71Kw = 62.0 Kw/tonne
Megane 1.4 - 1165kg, 72Kw = 61.1 Kw/tonne
Civic 1.4 - 1125Kg, 66Kw = 58.7 Kw/tonne
Clio 1.2 - 965kg, 55Kw = 57 Kw/tonne
Astra 1.4 - 1178kg, 66Kw = 56.0 Kw/tonne
Peugeot 307 - 1170, 65 Kw = 55.6 Kw/tonne
Mazda 3 - 1180Kg, 62 Kw = 52.5 kw/tonne
Focus - 1154kg, 55Kw = 47.7 Kw/tonne
Leon 1.4 - 1161Kg, 55Kw = 47.4 Kw/tonne
Octavia - 1230Kg, 55Kw = 44.7 Kw/tonne
Golf 1.4 - 1319kg, 55Kw = 41.6 Kw/tonne

Big difference between 41 and 69. Thats a 70% difference, so as you can see not all 1.4s are created equal and your little clio sits nearer the top than the bottom.... The Golf and it older VAG sisters are lardy POS that need to hit the gym and shed some of those BigMacs, but the leader, the Stilo will fall apart before you drive off the forecourt so

Between the corolla, civic and megane, I'd probably take the Megane just over the civic - seems well spec'ed and keenly priced

Dave

dcGT

Pinkchick03 wrote:

Holy god this post has changed into a mathematical one! he he! All i want is advice about changing the car - too many figures scare me LOL!! So....

Heh yeah, sorry about that. Well I suppose without actually driving the various cars, performance figures are the best place to start if you're looking for something 'nippy'

DC.

BrianD3

Good list of specs. mayshine. Interesting to see that there is now a 1.4 Stilo presumably this replaces the 1.2 that was offered originally.

Also, the 307 must have gained some bhp since the last time i checked it had the same output as the VAG and Focus 1.4.

If you were to include older cars you'd get even better power to weight ratios. Eg the older Civics, the old Megane 1.4 16 valve (same engine but lighter body than the current car) and the Rover 214 which was offered with a 103 bhp 1.4 engine in a light body.

BrianD3

Pinkchick03

Too technical for me!!! LOL! I just a car with a bit of lift - none of this bhp smuck!!! HE HE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Anyone fancy buying/selling me a good car????? Or just giving me one

Pinkchick03

Mayshine wrote:

Stilo 1.4 - 1010Kg, 70Kw = 69.3 Kw/tonne
Corolla 1.4 - 1110Kg, 71Kw = 62.0 Kw/tonne
Megane 1.4 - 1165kg, 72Kw = 61.1 Kw/tonne
Civic 1.4 - 1125Kg, 66Kw = 58.7 Kw/tonne
Clio 1.2 - 965kg, 55Kw = 57 Kw/tonne
Astra 1.4 - 1178kg, 66Kw = 56.0 Kw/tonne
Peugeot 307 - 1170, 65 Kw = 55.6 Kw/tonne
Mazda 3 - 1180Kg, 62 Kw = 52.5 kw/tonne
Focus - 1154kg, 55Kw = 47.7 Kw/tonne
Leon 1.4 - 1161Kg, 55Kw = 47.4 Kw/tonne
Octavia - 1230Kg, 55Kw = 44.7 Kw/tonne
Golf 1.4 - 1319kg, 55Kw = 41.6 Kw/tonne

Big difference between 41 and 69. Thats a 70% difference, so as you can see not all 1.4s are created equal and your little clio sits nearer the top than the bottom.... The Golf and it older VAG sisters are lardy POS that need to hit the gym and shed some of those BigMacs, but the leader, the Stilo will fall apart before you drive off the forecourt so

Between the corolla, civic and megane, I'd probably take the Megane just over the civic - seems well spec'ed and keenly priced

Dave

Do you mean new or old shape megane??? or does it make a difference?? I really like new shape megane - anyone selling theirs??

Mayshine

New shape Megane, go take a test drive of it.

Probably a good bet. Very good safety record and probably the most toys of all the cars in the list.





BTW
I took the data from carzone.ie. In fact once I was bored and wrote a java program to read the whole site and generate all the Kw/tonne off all their cars in their database. After that i knew which cars has the 'cheapest' horespower. How sad is that..

Pinkchick03

I had test in new shape megane - its lovely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Handbrake bit strange!
Think i might get an 03 one in Jan depending on price range.

That isn't sad - its extremely intelligent!!!! Fair play to ya!

ZENER

All this conversation about relative engine performance got my google button working and came up with these figures which relate to the cars that have been mentioned. Many makers now quote engine power in KWs which is a little easier to work with.

All the cars below with the exception of the Almera are 1.4 16V models. As you can see the power output of the individual engines varies wildly! Comparing BHP is not an accurate way of comparing engine performance. HP is calculated as follows:

Horsepower = Torque x rpm / 5252.

The type of driver you are should decide the type of engine you opt for. For example a driver who likes to get into high gear as soon as possible should avoid V-Tec or VVTi engines who only come into their own at high revs. City drivers my fall into this category making diesel engines popular.

Drivers who like to work their engine through the revs up to red-line may appreciate more the merits of V-Tec and other engines that generate most of their power at high revs. This may explain the difference in opinion of the Focus and the Megane above. The focus generates it's power lower down than the Megane so probably making it feel nippier to certain types of driver.

A friend of mine bought a 2.2 V-Tec Accord a few years ago and I knew immediately he wouldn't like it he changes gear religiously at 2,500 RPM - I was right - he sold the car off 4 months later.


Ford Focus 1.4L:
Power: 55 kW , 75 HP ISO @ 5,000 rpm; , 123 Nm @ 3,500 rpm

Renault Megane 1.4L
Power: 72 kW , 98 HP EEC @ 6,000 rpm; , 127 Nm @ 3,750 rpm

Honda Civic 1.4S
Power: 66 kW , 90 HP SAE @ 5,600 rpm; , 130 Nm @ 4,300 rpm

Nissan Almera 1.5L:
Power: 72 kW , 98 HP EEC @ 6,000 rpm; , 136 Nm @ 4,000 rpm

Peugot 206 1.4L:
Power: 55 kW , 75 HP EEC @ 5,500 rpm; , 120 Nm @ 2,800 rpm

Toyota Corolla 1.4VVT
Power: 71 kW , 97 HP EEC @ 6,000 rpm; , 130 Nm @ 4,400 rpm

Citroen C2 1.4L:
Power: 54 kW , 75 HP EEC @ 5,400 rpm; , 118 Nm @ 3,300 rpm

ZEN AKA The Nerd !!

Edit: Oops didn't notice there was a third page . . Sooorrry !

Pinkchick03

ZENER wrote:

All this conversation about relative engine performance got my google button working and came up with these figures which relate to the cars that have been mentioned. Many makers now quote engine power in KWs which is a little easier to work with.

All the cars below with the exception of the Almera are 1.4 16V models. As you can see the power output of the individual engines varies wildly! Comparing BHP is not an accurate way of comparing engine performance. HP is calculated as follows:

Horsepower = Torque x rpm / 5252.

The type of driver you are should decide the type of engine you opt for. For example a driver who likes to get into high gear as soon as possible should avoid V-Tec or VVTi engines who only come into their own at high revs. City drivers my fall into this category making diesel engines popular.

Drivers who like to work their engine through the revs up to red-line may appreciate more the merits of V-Tec and other engines that generate most of their power at high revs. This may explain the difference in opinion of the Focus and the Megane above. The focus generates it's power lower down than the Megane so probably making it feel nippier to certain types of driver.

A friend of mine bought a 2.2 V-Tec Accord a few years ago and I knew immediately he wouldn't like it he changes gear religiously at 2,500 RPM - I was right - he sold the car off 4 months later.


Ford Focus 1.4L:
Power: 55 kW , 75 HP ISO @ 5,000 rpm; , 123 Nm @ 3,500 rpm

Renault Megane 1.4L
Power: 72 kW , 98 HP EEC @ 6,000 rpm; , 127 Nm @ 3,750 rpm

Honda Civic 1.4S
Power: 66 kW , 90 HP SAE @ 5,600 rpm; , 130 Nm @ 4,300 rpm

Nissan Almera 1.5L:
Power: 72 kW , 98 HP EEC @ 6,000 rpm; , 136 Nm @ 4,000 rpm

Peugot 206 1.4L:
Power: 55 kW , 75 HP EEC @ 5,500 rpm; , 120 Nm @ 2,800 rpm

Toyota Corolla 1.4VVT
Power: 71 kW , 97 HP EEC @ 6,000 rpm; , 130 Nm @ 4,400 rpm

Citroen C2 1.4L:
Power: 54 kW , 75 HP EEC @ 5,400 rpm; , 118 Nm @ 3,300 rpm

ZEN AKA The Nerd !!

Edit: Oops didn't notice there was a third page . . Sooorrry !

He he - don't worry!
Now who wants to explain the figures!
Figure wise the best car is ???
What is with all the maths?? Its so funny in school people were like - why would we ever need maths outside of school ... so this is a typical use of maths!! LOL!!
All I need is an explanation .... who is willing?

BrianD3

Zener; why is bhp not accurate for comparsions. AFAIK bhp is just a unit, there's a fixed conversion factor to convert between KW and bhp and both are determined using the same principle of torque * rpm/x and using a rolling road. KW, bhp and PS (is this the same as bhp EEC?) are all just different ways of expressing the same thing. Confusion may arise if power is determined at the flywheel rather than at the wheels but from what I know no car manufacturer does this nowadays.

BrianD3

fightin irish

Pinkchick03 wrote:

He he - don't worry!
Now who wants to explain the figures!
Figure wise the best car is ???
What is with all the maths?? Its so funny in school people were like - why would we ever need maths outside of school ... so this is a typical use of maths!! LOL!!
All I need is an explanation .... who is willing?

JUST LOOK AT THE MONSTER U CREATED..SHAME ON U