Pedestrians made to wait as cars get the green light

chewy

PEDESTRIANS are forced to wait in Dublin city centre while motorists are given priority at every junction, the Green Party claimed last night.

true?

from the indo, i hate the way we have to recycle papers these days and have to pay for archived articles on the net, means you can never reference old articles

cyclopath2001

chewy wrote:

PEDESTRIANS are forced to wait in Dublin city centre while motorists are given priority at every junction, the Green Party claimed last night.
true?

It certainly is.

The average waiting time at junctions for pedestrians is 100 seconds, with some as long as 4 minutes, then just 15 seconds are allowed to cross the road (assuming the motorists have bothered to leave the crossing clear or take the trouble to stop for the red light.).

At the many junctions where there is no crossing signal, vehicles are obliged to give way to pedestrians and do not. I've never seen a anyone stopped for this offence.

MrPudding

cyclopath2001 wrote:

It certainly is.

(assuming the motorists have bothered to leave the crossing clear or take the trouble to stop for the red light.).

And lets not forget trying to dodge the cyclists who seem to think traffic lights don't apply to them.

MrP

cyclopath2001

MrPudding wrote:

And lets not forget trying to dodge the cyclists who seem to think traffic lights don't apply to them.
MrP

True, but the cars and trucks are much more dangerous.

RicardoSmith

So most people don't obey the rules of the road. Thats hardly news.

Theres also pedestrians who don't obey these rules either and cross the road in the worst possible location, like the middle of a busy junction or between buses and trucks, or just simply walk out into the road with no warning.

At the end of the day the guards should enforce the rules. If people (drivers and pedestrians) think they can ignore them, they will.

vibe666

it's a lot harder to clotheline someone in a truck too.

or stick an umbrella in their spokes.

Our man in Havana

vibe666 wrote:

it's a lot harder to clotheline someone in a truck too.

or stick an umbrella in their spokes.

Has this actually been done?

cyclopath2001

But, I think the point is that pedestrians are discriminatd against douby:

1: By unfair rules telling them where & when they can cross (and for how long).

2: By non-enforcement of rules protecting them from dangerous & selfish vehicle drivers.

C:\

RicardoSmith

cyclopath2001 wrote:

But, I think the point is that pedestrians are discriminatd against douby:

1: By unfair rules telling them where & when they can cross (and for how long).

2: By non-enforcement of rules protecting them from dangerous & selfish vehicle drivers.

C:\

Why is unfair to have crossing rules for pedestrians?

Why do you think that doesn't apply equally in reverse (to other roadusers) also?

dazberry

cyclopath2001 wrote:

The average waiting time at junctions for pedestrians is 100 seconds, with some as long as 4 minutes, then just 15 seconds are allowed to cross the road (assuming the motorists have bothered to leave the crossing clear or take the trouble to stop for the red light.).

4 minutes. That must be the one on George's Quay linking Custom House Quay (IFSC)... and after 4 minutes and the pedestrian lights finally going green - there's a 40 foot artic stopped right across it, with other forms of transport often ignoring the light and passing on the inside. Must actually time it the next time I think of it...

TBH I think the pedestrian lights with a countdown timers are great - when they work. I've observed that certain crossings work in different modes, and in the bad mode, they're blank for a ~while~ before the 30 second countdown begins. I guess if someone is seeing 99 seconds displayed they'll start moaning about it (if they did hex they could go over 4 minutes - but ppl would get confused with all the ABCs etc ). Then again - having experienced next Luas, next Bus and next Dart displays at different times which are completely fictional - why not apply it to the crossings

D.

RicardoSmith

Then you have the pedestrians, who wait until the traffic light goes green for the cars is green and then make a sudden dash across the junction, holding up all the traffic, so that instead of 4 or 5 cars get through only 1 or none get through. There are junctions that have lights that are only 5-10 secs on green. Or pedestrians who cross on the blind side of a driver pulling out at a junction, or side road.

Theres stupid people in both camps.

dazberry

RicardoSmith wrote:

Then you have the pedestrians, who wait until the traffic light goes green for the cars is green and then make a sudden dash across the junction, holding up all the traffic, so that instead of 4 or 5 cars get through only 1 or none get through. There are junctions that have lights that are only 5-10 secs on green. Or pedestrians who cross on the blind side of a driver pulling out at a junction, or side road.

Theres stupid people in both camps.

Can't disagree with that. It just amazes me the people that will just stroll across busy traffic - regardless of the state of pedestrian lights if in proximity. TBH it annoys me just as much as traffic ignoring pedestrian lights.

D.

cyclopath2001

RicardoSmith wrote:

Why is unfair to have crossing rules for pedestrians?

Why do you think that doesn't apply equally in reverse (to other roadusers) also?

Di I say thay it was unfair to have crossing rules? please quote me?

It is not unfair to have crossing rules.....it is unfair to have UNFAIR crossing rules.

Pedestrians are not treated equally to other road users. They are given less space, less time and less priority than other road users. Why should one person in a SUV have more priority than one person on foot?

chewy

yeah i dislike junctions which only have two sets of lights letting you cross onlyone side of the street but thats no good if you starting from the _other_ side of the street if you know what i mean like if you happen to get stuck on the liberty hall side of crossing the matt talbot bridge trying to cross the road to get to tara street or something like that...

sometimes i wonder how drivers ever get through at o'connel bridge and henry street, i love to see mass crowds just decide to walk out, but i hate it esp on college green when people rush out at the last minute with bus coming for them, for _everyones_ safety wait a few seconds...

pedestrians must get in the way of cyclist at places like that too?

i find the going across to the oconnell bridge from o connell street and back on the newsagent side horrible cos there no room for all those people, atleast on the other side the've put a an extra pedestrian crossing further down the street...

its funny thought the influence other people have you, something your not paying attention and when you fell others move you start to two , and suddenly u notice they've play chicken with a garbage truck, works the other way too by purposely not walking out otehrs won't either


you notice they tried sort out the problem about the o connell street plaza(wasteland) where you didn't know where european style plaza and road begins and ends by putting in line of metal discs embedded in the stone.

Alun

chewy wrote:

its funny thought the influence other people have you, something your not paying attention and when you fell others move you start to two , and suddenly u notice they've play chicken with a garbage truck, works the other way too by purposely not walking out otehrs won't either

Could you translate that paragraph (if you can call it that) into English please?

A Dub in Glasgo

Translated: Sometimes, people are lemmings

RicardoSmith

cyclopath2001 wrote:

Di I say thay it was unfair to have crossing rules? please quote me?....

Well you said its unfair (for pedestrians)

1) to tell them where & when they can cross (and for how long)...
2) By non-enforcement of rules

Now you've added it is unfair (for pedestrians) to

3) have UNFAIR crossing rules
4) less space, less time and less priority than other road users
5) less priority than a person in a SUV

The means of transport that is most used will be given priority. The method with the most potential for injury will be given priority. Its not unfair, its common sense.

cyclopath2001

RicardoSmith wrote:

The means of transport that is most used will be given priority.

Since pedestrians are in the majority in the city, you agree that pedestrians should have the priority. Thanks.

I'm not sure if majorities are the way to go though. It might not work in the suburbs. How about 'first come first served' & equal priority for pedestrians and motorists at junctions?

RicardoSmith wrote:

The method with the most potential for injury will be given priority. Its not unfair, its common sense.

I'm glad we agree that pedestrians are very vulnerable & therefore have the most potential to be injured, so they need the most priority.

C:\

RicardoSmith

Theres pedestrian only areas in the city center.
Pedestrians already do have right of way.
But are "controlled" crossing points not "unfair" to pedestrians?
'first come first served' ...pedestrian lights ...Zebra crossing?
When was the last time you saw a 20min tailback of pedestrians trying to cross a junction?

cyclopath2001

RicardoSmith wrote:

Theres pedestrian only areas in the city center.

But are "controlled" crossing points not "unfair" to pedestrians?
'first come first served' ...pedestrian lights ...Zebra crossing?

The are just few pedestrian zones, virtually nothing in comparison the the amount of roadspace provided to amply-proportioned vehicles and drivers.

Pedestrians already do have right of way.

Yes indeed, for example, pedestrians have priority at minor junctions, but vehicles drivers drive straight at them, horns blaring. This is illegal. Pedestrians also have priority once they'e started to cross the road & are frequently intimidated by motorists. Some incidents I've seen are tantamount to assault with a deadly weapon, but the road traffic acts protect all but the worst motorists from criminal prosecution.

Additionally, where there is no crossing, it is a rare sight to see a motorist show any courtesy to a pedestrian who is attempting to start crossing.

But are "controlled" crossing points not "unfair" to pedestrians?

Yes, he current ones are (except the one at Leinster House). This thread began by pointing out that pedestrian crossings discriminate against pedestrians by restricting them to a few seconds every so-often while allowing vehicles priority for most of the time. This is fact.

I'd also point out that the location of these crossings, where motorists so generously permit ungrateful pedestrians a few seconds to cross every once in a while, is determined by the convenience of motorists & not the needs of pedestrians.

Zebra crossings which are much more useful to pedestrians than traffic lights were phased out some time ago in favour of signal controlled junctions. This was partly because motorists refused to obey the rules at these crossings & just ran over any pedestrians who got in the way.

When was the last time you saw a 20min tailback of pedestrians trying to cross a junction?

Never: your point is?

Stark

I can't stand when you're at a crossroads, and there's no traffic lights for getting directly from one side of the road you're on to the other (you have to cross 3 roads instead with seperate traffic lights at each road). There was an especially bad one in Fairview where I lived where you had to cross 4 different sets of traffic lights just to cross one road.

RicardoSmith

Theres just too much crazy in there to respond to all that.

Seriously do you have that much trouble crossing the road?

A Dub in Glasgo

It can be quite cumbersome in Dublin city centre to cross some of the roads. The road traffic definitely gets a lot of priority over the crowds of pedestrians.

RicardoSmith

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

It can be quite cumbersome in Dublin city centre to cross some of the roads. The road traffic definitely gets a lot of priority over the crowds of pedestrians.

So thats why you see those 20min tailbacks of pedestrians (not road traffic) all over the place.

Guy:Incognito

cyclopath2001 wrote:

Why should one person in a SUV have more priority than one person on foot?

Becaus ethe person in the SUV is paying A LOT of money to be on the road. Maybe pedestrians should have to pay road tax and insurance as well, then they can have equal priority.

A Dub in Glasgo

RicardoSmith wrote:

So thats why you see those 20min tailbacks of pedestrians (not road traffic) all over the place.

Actually, I have never stated there is 20min pedestrian tailbacks and I cannot see it mentioned here so where did you get that one from?

Victor

Stekelly wrote:

Becaus ethe person in the SUV is paying A LOT of money to be on the road. Maybe pedestrians should have to pay road tax and insurance as well, then they can have equal priority.

....and pedestrians are well known for causing pot-holes....

Gordon

Victor wrote:

....and pedestrians are well known for causing pot-holes....

Pesky Rastas.

RicardoSmith

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Actually, I have never stated there is 20min pedestrian tailbacks and I cannot see it mentioned here so where did you get that one from?

What? You've never seen all those pedestrians delayed in tailbacks because motor traffic gets priority? Where do you live dude? Where I live the're backed up all over the pavements waiting to cross the road.

Victor wrote:

....and pedestrians are well known for causing pot-holes....

SUV's cause pot holes? Usually its heavy stuff like trucks, buses and poor road drainage and poor road construction that causes pot holes. The standard of road building in this country is woeful.

BrianD3

Actually, I have never stated there is 20min pedestrian tailbacks and I cannot see it mentioned here so where did you get that one from?

He was being sarcastic. The point is that you don't see big queues of pedestrians waiting for long periods to cross the road at traffic light controlled junctions. Therefore the inital assertion that pedestrians are somehow being "discriminated against" and that the rules/priority governing pedestrians crossing the road are unfair is false.

As a pedestrian I have never had to wait more than 2-3 minutes to cross the road at a junction in Dublin. As a motorist, I have often waited an hour or more in a queue of traffic coming up to a junction waiting for my turn.

This is because when pedestrians get a "green man", even if it only lasts 10 or so seconds, you could easily get 150+ pedestrians safely across the road in that short time.

BrianD3

cyclopath2001

Stekelly wrote:

Becaus ethe person in the SUV is paying A LOT of money to be on the road. Maybe pedestrians should have to pay road tax and insurance as well, then they can have equal priority.

These are preposterous notions.

Everybody has the same rights regardless of how much tax & insurance they pay.

To follow your logic: What happens when the pedestrian is paying more tax than the SUV driver? What happens if the SUV is foreign, from a low-tax country?

What's insurance got to do with any of this?

If cars are stuck in traffic it's because they're wasting too much road space.

C:\