IOL Broadband 150ms pings

Illkillya

Seeing the other threads about problems with IOL Broadband... often on a weeknight I will have around 150-200ms ping in games, even on servers hosted by IOL. I'm still in my 3 month trial of IOL Plus, and deciding whether to continue for the year or to cancel and switch to Eircom.

I know some ISPs do not cater for gamers, and will not assure good ping... does anyone know what the story is with IOL? For the first few weeks it was excellent but now this high ping at night is becoming more common...

Diabolus, is it related to the problems experienced in the other thread, or is this something that I should expect in the long term if I decide to stay with IOL?

Diabolus

I have very rarely heard of this problem occuring. Normaly the pings reach 60.
Has this also only occured since this problem?
If so i would give it a bit of time to clear up.

If not i recommend you ring tech Support and have this fault to be looked into.

Illkillya

Will do - I had a feeling that I got unlucky with a lot of heavy kazaa users in the area or something. In future I'll note the times when this happens and start collecting tracerts.

Lex_Diamonds

Same thing happened to me the other night. It was on the night of the storm so I thought there might have been a connection. Am on the Nutley exchange.

SantaHoe

Do a search for IOL ping times... it's not the first time they've had bouts of unplayable lag... sometimes lasting weeks.
It won't become an issue for them until people vote with thier feet... my 12 month contract is almost up, so any more shoddy performance and I'm outta here.

Lex_Diamonds

Who do you plan to move to though? Everyone sucks in some way.

OfflerCrocGod

Everyone is praying for NTL to save them I wish they would hurry up! There are no other real options.

Kulgan

Yea IOL pings have gone to crap last week or so every evening from around 20:00-22:00

Illkillya

Lex_Diamonds wrote:

Who do you plan to move to though? Everyone sucks in some way.

If you're just talking about gaming, then Eircom - all my clanmates have regular Eircom DSL and have no trouble with pings.

Diabolus

The issues were all resolved.
Do you still have the high pings?

Illkillya

The pings are not constantly high... they occur on evenings during the week, for the three weeks, usually 9pm onwards. Now I see that I'm not the only person experiencing this, since others have posted here. Its only Monday afternoon, we'll find out at 10pm tonight if our pings will be OK tonight, and same tomorrow. I'll be surprised if we last till Thursday without having a solid orange ping at least one night.

I cannot do traceroutes because IOL DSL doesn't allow pings? Is there any other ping tracker program that doesn't rely on ICMP... like.. how does All Seeing Eye get its ping times? I'd like to see where the dodgy hops are too, or whether leechers are eating the local bandwidth... had hoped the download cap would prevent that.

Ta for the response anyway Diabolus... will let you know later in the week whether or not the issue appears to be resolved.

Diabolus

Cheers illl try mine too for comparison.
Im not an online gamer anymore so i never see pings.
Will confer later.

Illkillya

OK pings have just gone from lovely 35 ping to 140 ping... most likely it'll stay this bad for the night. Just to confirm, wish I could tracert and stuff. Might give tech support a ring to see what they say.

Kulgan

Right on time !!!


tracert www.burstfire.net

Tracing route to burstfire.net [195.22.128.20]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 202 ms 157 ms 160 ms bas502.cwt.esat.net [193.95.136.238]
2 162 ms 164 ms 165 ms vlan501.rt501.cwt.esat.net [193.95.137.124]
3 161 ms 158 ms 153 ms vlan51.rt001.cwt.esat.net [193.95.130.137]
4 162 ms 170 ms 214 ms ge0-0.core001.cwt.esat.net [193.95.129.1]
5 154 ms 154 ms 154 ms pos2-0.br001.ldn.esat.net [193.95.131.14]
6 175 ms 175 ms 179 ms linx-gw0.enta.net [195.66.224.151]
7 154 ms 152 ms 152 ms fe-3-1-cr2.sov.as25492.net [193.109.219.138]
8 140 ms 136 ms 132 ms fe-0-1-700-vanadium.as25492.net [82.136.0.203]
9 145 ms 134 ms 127 ms platinum.burstfire.net [195.22.128.20]

Trace complete.

Diabolus

Hey "Illkillya" could you try this tracert?

tracert www.burstfire.net

Also "Kulgan" are you on IOLBB?

Kulgan

Yes!

Illkillya

I can't do tracerts, or dos pings... I assumed IOL prevented it but I see nobody else has this problem, so maybe its the way my router is set up. I can connect to burstfire servers and see 140+ ping though. I'm on Leixlip exchange.

Diabolus

Im trying to see if its limited to certain BAS or Exchange points.
Also if your on IOLBB or BB Plus.

dub45

there is a post this evening (8.25pm) on the UTV support group complaining of a similar prolem:

Getting some horrid ping spikes around this time every night for the past week or two. A friend on IOL has the exact same problem, at the exact same
times as me every night.

Illkillya

Diabolus wrote:

Im trying to see if its limited to certain BAS or Exchange points.
Also if your on IOLBB or BB Plus.

IOL BB Plus... decided to go for the more expensive package with lower contention ratio to reduce the risk of this happening.

Collina

I'm having the same ping problems - just leapt up through the roof.

The irony is this is the first time in 3 months that it has happened to me. It has been perfectly fine until tonight, funnily enough I just got a letter from Esat in the post today telling me my 3 months is up and do I want to sign up for 12 months....

Reading this thread is making me think twice.

animaal

I use the Leixlip exchange too (IOL), and I'm getting similar figures just now. Haven't seen it like this before.

C:\>tracert www.burstfire.net

Tracing route to burstfire.net [195.22.128.20]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 153 ms 158 ms 163 ms bas503.cwt.esat.net [193.95.136.239]
3 115 ms 114 ms 112 ms vlan501.rt502.cwt.esat.net [193.95.137.125]
4 140 ms 147 ms 152 ms vlan54.rt002.cwt.esat-x.com [193.95.130.161]
5 153 ms 158 ms 148 ms ge1-0.core001.cwt.esat.net [193.95.129.17]
6 133 ms 129 ms 121 ms pos2-0.br001.ldn.esat.net [193.95.131.14]
7 116 ms 118 ms 112 ms linx-gw0.enta.net [195.66.224.151]
8 129 ms 137 ms 140 ms fe-3-1-cr2.sov.as25492.net [193.109.219.138]
9 148 ms 151 ms 158 ms fe-0-1-700-vanadium.as25492.net [82.136.0.203]
10 169 ms 176 ms 168 ms platinum.burstfire.net [195.22.128.20]

Trace complete.

cuppa

yea same happening here palmerstown.i first noticed the night of the storm aswell.(iol)
Tracing route to burstfire.net [195.22.128.20]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 116 ms 123 ms 114 ms bas502.cwt.esat.net [193.95.136.238]
3 306 ms 214 ms 220 ms vlan501.rt501.cwt.esat.net [193.95.137.124]
4 127 ms 127 ms 133 ms vlan51.rt001.cwt.esat.net [193.95.130.137]
5 113 ms 119 ms 120 ms ge0-0.core001.cwt.esat.net [193.95.129.1]
6 138 ms 135 ms 137 ms pos2-0.br001.ldn.esat.net [193.95.131.14]
7 149 ms 147 ms 151 ms linx-gw0.enta.net [195.66.224.151]
8 168 ms 164 ms 167 ms fe-3-1-cr2.sov.as25492.net [193.109.219.138]
9 166 ms 160 ms 156 ms fe-0-1-700-vanadium.as25492.net [82.136.0.203]
10 158 ms 151 ms 150 ms platinum.burstfire.net [195.22.128.20]

Trace complete

Lex_Diamonds

Nutley exchange in the Hizzouse:

1 164 ms 156 ms 152 ms bas502.cwt.esat.net [193.95.136.238]
2 153 ms 143 ms 142 ms vlan501.rt501.cwt.esat.net [193.95.137.124]
3 165 ms 166 ms 160 ms vlan51.rt001.cwt.esat.net [193.95.130.137]
4 143 ms 142 ms 146 ms ge0-0.core001.cwt.esat.net [193.95.129.1]
5 200 ms 179 ms 173 ms pos2-0.br001.ldn.esat.net [193.95.131.14]
6 149 ms 155 ms 160 ms linx-gw0.enta.net [195.66.224.151]
7 177 ms 168 ms 158 ms fe-3-1-cr2.sov.as25492.net [193.109.219.138]
8 156 ms 162 ms 172 ms fe-0-1-700-vanadium.as25492.net [82.136.0.203]
9 167 ms 166 ms 165 ms platinum.burstfire.net [195.22.128.20]

Diabolus

Thanks for all the examples.

Funky

I'm getting the same, took until 11:45 to go back to 40 ping to the UK.

Eircom here I come...

Mutor_CS

Same here, it's been happening for at least two weeks, pings to UK servers warbling between 50ms and 170ms. Traceroutes, like above, show first hop to esat's servers well over 100ms - most evenings around 9.

Diabolus - IOL/Esat should know about this stuff the instant it happens, not when users get so fed up that they post on boards.

A mate of mine in eircom net says that Esat have a third 'server' coming 'soon' (not sure what kind of server, maybe a BBAS?) that should help with capacity problems, and no, eircom users are not seeing this issue, but poor old UTV users are.

IOLBB and UTV were down completely this morning for me (Leopardstown) and a friend (Cabinteely). We got assigned an IP address upon connection, but no ping response from the gateway or DNS servers. This isn't the first day it's happened. It also happened last week, I had dismissed it as a once-off...

animaal

Started happening here (Leixlip) again in the last few minutes.

(Happening on and off now, changes every few minutes...)

cuppa

Here we go again,,starting early to-nite.

Tracing route to burstfire.net [195.22.128.20]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 155 ms 154 ms 152 ms bas503.cwt.esat.net [193.95.136.239]
3 142 ms 146 ms 145 ms vlan500.rt501.cwt.esat.net [193.95.136.124]
4 137 ms 130 ms 128 ms vlan51.rt001.cwt.esat.net [193.95.130.137]
5 131 ms 130 ms 125 ms ge0-0.core001.cwt.esat.net [193.95.129.1]
6 132 ms 140 ms 139 ms pos2-0.br001.ldn.esat.net [193.95.131.14]
7 132 ms 137 ms 130 ms linx-gw0.enta.net [195.66.224.151]
8 115 ms 114 ms 124 ms fe-3-1-cr2.sov.as25492.net [193.109.219.138]
9 147 ms 142 ms 144 ms fe-0-1-700-vanadium.as25492.net [82.136.0.203]
10 131 ms 127 ms 134 ms platinum.burstfire.net [195.22.128.20]

Trace complete.

grrr must give em a ring

Winters

Been like this majority of the day i think. Been noticing my pings going up to 150 ingame aswell which is a large jump from the 20 I would usually get.

Tracing route to www.boards.ie [82.195.131.130]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.34
2 2 ms 2 ms 2 ms 192.168.1.1
3 118 ms 115 ms 113 ms bas502.cwt.esat.net [193.95.x.x]
4 123 ms 131 ms 131 ms vlan500.rt501.cwt.esat.net [193.95.x.x]
5 143 ms 154 ms 147 ms vlan53.rt002.cwt.esat-x.com [193.95.x.x]
6 148 ms 142 ms 137 ms ge0-0.core002.cwt.esat.net [193.95.x.x]
7 126 ms 120 ms 130 ms pos2-0.br001.inex.esat.net [193.95.x.x]
8 117 ms 110 ms 110 ms panama-inex.hosting365.ie [193.1.x.x]
9 112 ms 111 ms 111 ms boards.ie [82.195.x.x]

Trace complete.

tuxy

i hate to say it but
if you want a stable gaming dsl connection you have to go with eircom
iv never had poor pings on my eircom connection

cuppa

no,,,never.

dosent happen to often,,the last lime was a few months back,that lasted about 2 weeks,weird thing is browsing a nd downloading is fine.

[CrimsonGhost]

tuxy wrote:

i hate to say it but
if you want a stable gaming dsl connection you have to go with eircom
iv never had poor pings on my eircom connection

Whats the dealio with moving from ESAT BB to Eircom BB?

EDIT:
I just checked my line on the Eircom website to see if I could get eircom broadband (this while dialled up with ESAT/IOL BB). Aparently my line isn't capable when it comes to broadband.

Like, WTF, it really instills a sense of confidence in me when they tell me that. The whole broadband scene is a bloody joke. I only found this board/thread after having the ping issues with IOL. Glad to see I'm not the only one.

Also anyone able to give a decent reason for why IOL break the internet and deny ICMP packets? Again, WTF!?!

zoro

pings. unplayable. mood. worsening.

where's my shotgun?

Collina

Yep, After happening again to me, fine earlier and then through the roof...

Tracing route to www.boards.ie [82.195.131.130]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 6 ms 5 ms 5 ms 192.168.1.1
2 172 ms 167 ms 166 ms bas503.cwt.esat.net [193.95.136.239]
3 153 ms 154 ms 162 ms vlan500.rt502.cwt.esat.net [193.95.136.125]
4 165 ms 163 ms 160 ms vlan54.rt002.cwt.esat-x.com [193.95.130.161]
5 169 ms 164 ms 167 ms ge0-0.core002.cwt.esat.net [193.95.129.18]
6 * * 162 ms pos2-0.br001.inex.esat.net [193.95.131.6]
7 * 171 ms 165 ms panama-inex.hosting365.ie [193.1.208.234]
8 164 ms 165 ms 162 ms boards.ie [82.195.131.130]

Trace complete.

Esat get a call from me tomorrow, telling them they get it sorted or they get their router back.

animaal

Things are geting worse. I now get timeouts sometimes. It's worth noting that in the trace below, step 6, the timeout, is trying to contact "pos2-0.br001.ldn.esat.net [193.95.131.14]". I tried to phone IOL support but after being on hold for three quarters of an hour, I was cut off with an automated message telling me that they are now closed.



Tracing route to burstfire.net [195.22.128.20]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 * 156 ms 161 ms bas503.cwt.esat.net [193.95.136.239]
3 159 ms 157 ms 157 ms vlan501.rt502.cwt.esat.net [193.95.137.125]
4 153 ms 166 ms 156 ms vlan54.rt002.cwt.esat-x.com [193.95.130.161]
5 153 ms 154 ms 144 ms ge1-0.core001.cwt.esat.net [193.95.129.17]
6 * * * Request timed out.
7 * 170 ms 164 ms linx-gw0.enta.net [195.66.224.151]
8 171 ms 173 ms 179 ms fe-3-1-cr2.sov.as25492.net [193.109.219.138]
9 165 ms 168 ms 169 ms fe-0-1-700-vanadium.as25492.net [82.136.0.203]
10 173 ms 168 ms 171 ms platinum.burstfire.net [195.22.128.20]

Trace complete.

Funky

SOMEONE KILL ME PLEASE

Tracing route to burstfire.net [195.22.128.20]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 161 ms 170 ms 180 ms bas502.cwt.esat.net [193.95.136.238]
2 150 ms 161 ms 170 ms vlan501.rt502.cwt.esat.net [193.95.137.125]
3 160 ms 171 ms 160 ms vlan54.rt002.cwt.esat-x.com [193.95.130.161]
4 160 ms 171 ms 160 ms ge1-0.core001.cwt.esat.net [193.95.129.17]
5 170 ms 170 ms 171 ms pos2-0.br001.ldn.esat.net [193.95.131.14]
6 170 ms 210 ms * linx-gw0.enta.net [195.66.224.151]
7 171 ms 180 ms 170 ms fe-3-1-cr2.sov.as25492.net [193.109.219.138]
8 171 ms 180 ms 180 ms fe-0-1-700-vanadium.as25492.net [82.136.0.203]
9 171 ms 230 ms * platinum.burstfire.net [195.22.128.20]
10 170 ms 180 ms 180 ms platinum.burstfire.net [195.22.128.20]

Trace complete.

Roller Toaster

I got hit by this just now. No more Xbox Live Street Fighter 3

Is1ldur

I just did a tracert, but I don't know what I am looking for. All I know is that my pings to jolt.co.uk are about 150-180. I mean, that's f***ing 56K territory ffs.

Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

C:\>tracert www.burstfire.net

Tracing route to burstfire.net [195.22.128.20]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms ***.***.*.*
2 169 ms 158 ms 162 ms bas502.cwt.esat.net [193.95.136.238]
3 171 ms 157 ms 147 ms vlan501.rt502.cwt.esat.net [193.95.137.125]
4 168 ms 167 ms 161 ms vlan54.rt002.cwt.esat-x.com [193.95.130.161]
5 163 ms 153 ms 153 ms ge1-0.core001.cwt.esat.net [193.95.129.17]
6 175 ms 175 ms 166 ms pos2-0.br001.ldn.esat.net [193.95.131.14]
7 172 ms 175 ms 168 ms linx-gw0.enta.net [195.66.224.151]
8 177 ms 170 ms 169 ms fe-3-1-cr2.sov.as25492.net [193.109.219.138]
9 169 ms 176 ms 173 ms fe-0-1-700-vanadium.as25492.net [82.136.0.203]
10 159 ms 162 ms 160 ms platinum.burstfire.net [195.22.128.20]

Trace complete.

Is1ldur

I've just tracert'd Boards and got the following. What the hell are those asterisk's doing there??
Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

C:\Documents and Settings\Darryl>tracert www.boards.ie

Tracing route to www.boards.ie [82.195.131.130]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 163 ms 162 ms 162 ms bas502.cwt.esat.net [193.95.136.238]
3 165 ms * * vlan500.rt501.cwt.esat.net [193.95.136.124]
4 * * 157 ms vlan51.rt001.cwt.esat.net [193.95.130.137]
5 173 ms 163 ms 161 ms ge1-0.core002.cwt.esat.net [193.95.129.2]
6 178 ms 165 ms 170 ms pos2-0.br001.inex.esat.net [193.95.131.6]
7 172 ms 166 ms 165 ms panama-inex.hosting365.ie [193.1.208.234]
8 169 ms 165 ms 165 ms boards.ie [82.195.131.130]

Trace complete.

Anyone got any ideas. I also sent a question to Esat. I will prolly receive their standard 'contention' excuse.

conor-mr2

IOLBB--3 month trial still

D15 area--Blanchardstown exchange

Tracing route to burstfire.net [195.22.128.20]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <10 ms <10 ms <10 ms Gateway [192.168.0.1]
2 156 ms 172 ms 156 ms bas502.cwt.esat.net [193.95.136.238]
3 156 ms 156 ms 156 ms vlan501.rt502.cwt.esat.net [193.95.137.125]
4 157 ms 156 ms 172 ms vlan54.rt002.cwt.esat-x.com [193.95.130.161]
5 156 ms 156 ms 156 ms ge1-0.core001.cwt.esat.net [193.95.129.17]
6 172 ms 172 ms 172 ms pos2-0.br001.ldn.esat.net [193.95.131.14]
7 172 ms 171 ms 172 ms linx-gw0.enta.net [195.66.224.151]
8 172 ms 172 ms 156 ms fe-3-1-cr2.sov.as25492.net [193.109.219.138]
9 172 ms 172 ms 156 ms fe-0-1-700-vanadium.as25492.net [82.136.0.203]
10 172 ms 172 ms 188 ms platinum.burstfire.net [195.22.128.20]

Trace complete.


Not too good

Is1ldur

Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

C:\Documents and Settings\Darryl>ping www.boards.ie

Pinging www.boards.ie [82.195.131.130] with 32 bytes of data:

Request timed out.
Reply from 82.195.131.130: bytes=32 time=158ms TTL=58
Reply from 82.195.131.130: bytes=32 time=166ms TTL=58
Reply from 82.195.131.130: bytes=32 time=133ms TTL=58

Ping statistics for 82.195.131.130:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 3, Lost = 1 (25% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 133ms, Maximum = 166ms, Average = 152ms

C:\Documents and Settings\Darryl>ping www.boards.ie

Pinging www.boards.ie [82.195.131.130] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 82.195.131.130: bytes=32 time=154ms TTL=58
Reply from 82.195.131.130: bytes=32 time=168ms TTL=58
Reply from 82.195.131.130: bytes=32 time=167ms TTL=58
Reply from 82.195.131.130: bytes=32 time=161ms TTL=58

Ping statistics for 82.195.131.130:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 154ms, Maximum = 168ms, Average = 162ms

I think I am gonna be sick. This is very annoying....

Winters

Everythimg seems to have cleared up for me ..

Tracing route to www.boards.ie [82.195.131.130]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.34
2 2 ms 2 ms 2 ms 192.168.1.1
3 26 ms 25 ms 25 ms bas502.cwt.esat.net [193.95.x.x]
4 25 ms 26 ms 26 ms vlan500.rt501.cwt.esat.net [193.95.x.x]
5 24 ms 24 ms 23 ms vlan51.rt001.cwt.esat.net [193.95.x.x]
6 25 ms 25 ms 25 ms ge1-0.core002.cwt.esat.net [193.95.x.x]
7 23 ms 27 ms 27 ms pos2-0.br001.inex.esat.net [193.95.x.x]
8 26 ms 25 ms 27 ms panama-inex.hosting365.ie [193.1.x.x]
9 26 ms 26 ms 27 ms boards.ie [82.195.x.x]

OfflerCrocGod

Same here:

PING boards.ie (82.195.131.130) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from boards.ie (82.195.131.130): icmp_seq=1 ttl=58 time=21.7 ms
64 bytes from boards.ie (82.195.131.130): icmp_seq=2 ttl=58 time=25.2 ms
64 bytes from boards.ie (82.195.131.130): icmp_seq=3 ttl=58 time=24.2 ms
64 bytes from boards.ie (82.195.131.130): icmp_seq=4 ttl=58 time=23.0 ms
64 bytes from boards.ie (82.195.131.130): icmp_seq=5 ttl=58 time=22.2 ms
64 bytes from boards.ie (82.195.131.130): icmp_seq=6 ttl=58 time=24.5 ms
64 bytes from boards.ie (82.195.131.130): icmp_seq=7 ttl=58 time=24.0 ms
64 bytes from boards.ie (82.195.131.130): icmp_seq=8 ttl=58 time=23.7 ms

--- boards.ie ping statistics ---
8 packets transmitted, 8 received, 0% packet loss, time 7017ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 21.783/23.591/25.264/1.104 ms

Kulgan

Yea its all fine after Midnight but it will be back tomorrow at 19:15ish when it will start spiking from 50-100 and then at 20:00 it will be just be 180-200 ping til later on that night

tuxy

oh well dont worry im sure it will return again later at peak times

[DF]Lenny

I have IOL bb 18 months on the low contention line ..This problem has started to occur in the last 2 weeks for me too.I had probs about year ago but my old pal Bill Murphy at ESAT assured me it was a temporary exchange problem(due to Eircom upgrade).It settles down after 12:00 so it is probably just overloading ...NTL suffer from this too.

Diabolus

IF you suffer this problem please ring Tech Supp and report the problem.
1890 923 111

Illkillya

Diabolus, I don't think he was attacking you personally. I'm sure ESAT does know of this issue, and your help here is appreciated. Could you advise of the best place for all of us to direct our complaints?

eakin

hey guys
I am on leixlip exchange as well.
Went into play counterstrike for the first time last night cause I had blown up my motherboard previously and only got it fixed and was pinging 300!, totally unplayable!

There must be something we can do about this.
I paid the extra to get the better contention ratio so its up to them to provide the service.
Fair play to esat tho, after a few e-mails to and from bill murphy he got our line enabled.

Diabolus

It does look like congestion but it is being looked into.
I suggest you call in on 1890 923 111 and reporting the problem through Tech Support.