Recruitment Agency nightmare?

Jack Feeney

Have you had a NIGHTMARE experience with a Recruitment Consultant, Agent or Company?undefined :mad:

I'm researching a small satirical book on RECRUITMENT (Men are from Mars - Recruiters are from Uranus) and am actively seeking any personal horror stories.

All communications treated with respect,

Kind regards,
Jack Feeney
Author-In Search Of Competence.

BuffyBot

Men are from Mars - Recruiters are from Uranus

My eyes...the goggle..they do nothing....

On a more serious note, the Work Forum might be a better place to post for info..

bringitdown

Dear <insert mis-spelt name here>:

We have been contacted by our client, <choose>a large multinational, a small expanding software house, a blue chip company</choose> who are seeking to expand their work force and currently have the following vacancy:

<insert totally irrelevant position ensure that position is in similar area to candidate but none of the candidates skills are involved and that the position is aimed at <choose> a much higher level, a much lower level</choose> than the candidates current position>

If you wish to apply please reply attaching an up to date CV. Alternatively feel free to forward this to anyone who you may think is suitable.
Regards
<insert signature full of >>>>> here

BUMF, I HATE RECRUITMENT AGENCIES, apologies for any ironic mis-spellings

Jack Feeney

bringitdown wrote:

Dear <insert mis-spelt name here>:

We have been contacted by our client, <choose>a large multinational, a small expanding software house, a blue chip company</choose> who are seeking to expand their work force and currently have the following vacancy:

<insert totally irrelevant position ensure that position is in similar area to candidate but none of the candidates skills are involved and that the position is aimed at <choose> a much higher level, a much lower level</choose> than the candidates current position>

If you wish to apply please reply attaching an up to date CV. Alternatively feel free to forward this to anyone who you may think is suitable.
Regards
<insert signature full of >>>>> here

BUMF, I HATE RECRUITMENT AGENCIES, apologies for any ironic mis-spellings

Excellent - I love it - Thanks very much...I get the general idea!

WhiteWashMan

work forum is your best bet
we hate work agencies there

Keyzer

I love it, if you want some stories then let me know, I have tons of them...

ando

I once had to take a half day off work "dentist appointment" so that I could goto an interview that was arranged by an agency. Only when I was sitting down, in the interview did I realize that this job was completely irrelevant to what I am qualified in. To those who have a general idea of computers, I was going for NT/2000 security network admin, but I was sent to a UNIX server admin job.. jeez, I've never worked on a UNIX box before. It’s like sending a dentist to apply for a job doing heart surgery

Jack Feeney

Keyzer wrote:

I love it, if you want some stories then let me know, I have tons of them...

.....then share them - they may be useful not just to me but to anyone generally interested in the bottom-feeding world of recruitment!

vibe666

i always thought of recruitment the same way, that is until my g/f got a job for a recruitment company. i now see the other side of the coin where she spends hours trying to organise jobs for candidates and candidates for companies only to be screwed around by both.

i know i'm biased (isn't everyone? just in different directions) but the things people do would amaze you.

don't suppose you'd be interested in the other side of the coin would you? might be able to get her and her workmates to jot down some gems. or are you planning on a totally one sided argument?

neokenzo

One recruitment agency got me to go see him twice before the interview. Prep me for all the possible questions etc.
So I went to the interview, 4 minutes into the interview, the interview said that he wanted a totally different qualification and he had clearly indicated that to the recruitement agency.
What a waste of time and money!

RicardoSmith

Asked agency for a job near to home, because of first baby arriving very soon. Agency said they had it sorted. They couldn't give me any details until a week before I started the new contract. But then when I talked to the client a week before starting, I discovered the job was an hour and half away from home across mountains. This in the middle of winter.

With nearly all agencies I have the following saga. Ask them to make sure payment is before the first of the month so that bills can be paid. Also let me know in advance if any issues arise to prevent this. Without fail the money is never there, I'm never told in advance why and it takes 2 to 3 weeks to get paid after you invoice them with a time sheet. Sometimes it can take 6 to 7 weeks.

They give you a contract thats so full of holes and mistakes you could drive a bus through them. Then never respond to any queries you have on it. Then wonder why 3 months later you never signed the contract.

They insist certain procedures, have to followed regarding, invoicing, billing, expenses, and timesheets. Then without fail manage to circumvent everyone of them.

Jack Feeney

vibe666 wrote:

i always thought of recruitment the same way, that is until my g/f got a job for a recruitment company. i now see the other side of the coin where she spends hours trying to organise jobs for candidates and candidates for companies only to be screwed around by both.

i know i'm biased (isn't everyone? just in different directions) but the things people do would amaze you.

don't suppose you'd be interested in the other side of the coin would you? might be able to get her and her workmates to jot down some gems. or are you planning on a totally one sided argument?

...Would be interested to have RECRUITER feedback... if its no trouble. It's not a one sided arguement....just trying to gather some feedback to validate and expose some bigger issues. Its a satire on Recruitment so the aim is to expose vice & folly through ridicule but the book is not to be taken too seriously.

I've a very good friend working in recruitment but so far he's been one of the greatest contributors of Nightmare'ish stories. Many recruiters would agree that their industry is pretty sleazy and numbers mean everything!

RicardoSmith

Oh yeah another one is tell you there isn't a technical exam at the interview, and then you arrive and there is a 2 hour test. Or you study for a few nights for the technical test and then you find out on the day there isn't one.

Admittedly there seems to be a lack of communication between agencies and their clients. The poeple in volved with recruitment on both sides, HR and the agency having little technical knowledge. The agencies people seem to sales bods, bean counters and the HR people, well...

dazberry

bringitdown wrote:

Dear <insert mis-spelt name here>:

We have been contacted by our client, <choose>a large multinational, a small expanding software house, a blue chip company</choose> who are seeking to expand their work force and currently have the following vacancy:

<insert totally irrelevant position ensure that position is in similar area to candidate but none of the candidates skills are involved and that the position is aimed at <choose> a much higher level, a much lower level</choose> than the candidates current position>

If you wish to apply please reply attaching an up to date CV. Alternatively feel free to forward this to anyone who you may think is suitable.
Regards
<insert signature full of >>>>> here

Hehe - and I know where that one comes from.

I made the mistake of sending them my CV once - and not only do I get this sh1t spam now so did the company I worked in. I was the IT manager (of sorts - you know - small company etc al.) and a phone call came in looking for said person. Twigging what was going on I gave a colleagues name - and he got spammed. The worst were the faxes - making a real commodity of IT staff - almost like buy one get one free / weekend specials

The worst experience I ever had was with an agency that sent my CV to a completely different job than the one I applied for. Their take on it was that I should do the interview for experience (/me - why - I'll be wasting everyone's time). Having a contact in the target company, I rang him and got the HR managers name. I gave her a call and told her my CV had been sent in without my express permission - had a good chat with her - she was nice. She rang the agency and read them the riot act and basically told them to take a run and jump. Agency rang me and started giving me **** - "you've lost us a client - why did you do that - why didn't you just go to the interview...". Was I not a client too - a client that they'd have made a substantial amount of money on too (for the job they'd advertised if I'd got it), but because I wouldn't take **** from them - they hung up.

But to bring balance to this - I know that sometimes companies act the sh1t - and so do candidates for that matter. Its a real balancing act. People love agencies that get them the job, and blame them when they don't - although in fairness sometimes a good agency is let down by just one bad agent. I friend of mine that did a bit of recruiting was seriously frightened by some of the people she had to interview - serious space cadets.

Against that I'm looking to make a move from where I am. There was no way I could guess the company that was advertised (because its a Java house and I don't Java - but they were looking for my skills for a particular project). The agency have been as good as an agency can be at this point - but the company got back after interview saying A1 - perfect etc. but the it'll be a couple of weeks. I've enough experience not to take things at face value until the fat lady sings! but that couple of weeks ends tomorrow. In the meantime (on the grapevine) I've heard the company appears not to be in a great shape at the mo., so that couple of weeks might turn into never. If that is the case I've a good idea why - but the agency are caught in the middle.

D.

RicardoSmith

Just as an aside I've had contracts and jobs come through after 4 or 5 months. Starting a new one soon and although I was told I had the job about 6 weeks ago I had to wait 4 weeks for the official offer in writing, as I wouldn't give notice on my current contract until I had the official offer in my hand. So glad to be leaving contracting though, too much messing about.

Jack Feeney

RicardoSmith wrote:

Oh yeah another one is tell you there isn't a technical exam at the interview, and then you arrive and there is a 2 hour test. Or you study for a few nights for the technical test and then you find out on the day there isn't one.

Admittedly there seems to be a lack of communication between agencies and their clients. The poeple in volved with recruitment on both sides, HR and the agency having little technical knowledge. The agencies people seem to sales bods, bean counters and the HR people, well...

My experience of HR functions is not good - I actually believe its one of the most fundamental though subtle flaws in commercial management since IBM missed Bill Gates' OS move. HRM practices are probably the most inhumane way to manage 'people' but with so much lousy management around - it seems set to remain in this part of the world for some time.

Still, its an added degree of complexiety to the already complex swamp of Bull**** that is Recruitment. Somethings were better in the old days -Thanks for your feedback!

Jack Feeney

dazberry wrote:

Hehe - and I know where that one comes from.

I made the mistake of sending them my CV once - and not only do I get this sh1t spam now so did the company I worked in. I was the IT manager (of sorts - you know - small company etc al.) and a phone call came in looking for said person. Twigging what was going on I gave a colleagues name - and he got spammed. The worst were the faxes - making a real commodity of IT staff - almost like buy one get one free / weekend specials

The worst experience I ever had was with an agency that sent my CV to a completely different job than the one I applied for. Their take on it was that I should do the interview for experience (/me - why - I'll be wasting everyone's time). Having a contact in the target company, I rang him and got the HR managers name. I gave her a call and told her my CV had been sent in without my express permission - had a good chat with her - she was nice. She rang the agency and read them the riot act and basically told them to take a run and jump. Agency rang me and started giving me **** - "you've lost us a client - why did you do that - why didn't you just go to the interview...". Was I not a client too - a client that they'd have made a substantial amount of money on too (for the job they'd advertised if I'd got it), but because I wouldn't take **** from them - they hung up.

But to bring balance to this - I know that sometimes companies act the sh1t - and so do candidates for that matter. Its a real balancing act. People love agencies that get them the job, and blame them when they don't - although in fairness sometimes a good agency is let down by just one bad agent. I friend of mine that did a bit of recruiting was seriously frightened by some of the people she had to interview - serious space cadets.

Against that I'm looking to make a move from where I am. There was no way I could guess the company that was advertised (because its a Java house and I don't Java - but they were looking for my skills for a particular project). The agency have been as good as an agency can be at this point - but the company got back after interview saying A1 - perfect etc. but the it'll be a couple of weeks. I've enough experience not to take things at face value until the fat lady sings! but that couple of weeks ends tomorrow. In the meantime (on the grapevine) I've heard the company appears not to be in a great shape at the mo., so that couple of weeks might turn into never. If that is the case I've a good idea why - but the agency are caught in the middle.

D.

D,

Excellent feedback - thanks a million.....It all sounds so familiar that it gives me the creeps. I agree that some balance is needed - not all recruiters are bad and some very good people can get tarred with the same brush.

But this is the point - despite booms, nothing has really changed in Irish Recruitment since the Employment Agency Act of 1971. Things are finally happening now. They are becoming more professional, offering 'recruiter' qualifications and working with the DTIC to promote better practices in revisions to law. Maybe your Children may be able to trust them all someday?

Thanks again!

Flukey

When you go in the first time they treat you like Royalty and tell you all the wonderful things they are going to do for you. When you are finished you will hear those immortal words:

"We'll contact you if anything comes in."

They never do. You then see a job advertised by that agency, often with the individual that you have dealt with as the contact, but they don't contact you. So you ring up and it's as if they have never heard of you before.:rolleyes:

Every so often you send in an updated CV and again it is like they never heard of you. The person you had dealt with is often gone. It often seems that they change their jobs more often than their clients do.

Unless a company rings them with a job, your CV will just sit there and, as I said, even then they still might not contact you. They don't take your CV and try and get a job for you. If they can check for candidates when a company calls them with a job, why can't they check companies when a candidate comes in who is available? You would think it would be in their interest to place as many people as possible.

You get told different things by the different agencies. I've been told different things in relation to the same job by different agencies. I've been told a company has stopped interviewing when another agency said they hadn't or that different skills were required. I know a guy who went through an agency who told him he would not be suited. He then contacted the company directly and got the job.

I could go on...! :mad:

RossFixxxed

AH recruitment agencies. Ring you on Monday telling you there's a job on the way. Then they never contact you again. Mails like "can you let me know either way whether you're still purusing something for me" get NO feedback. Rip them to shreads.

Ross

seamus

Yeah Ross, I got that before. Got contacted about a support job, shift work but "good pay", and there'd be interviews in a week. He told me he'd send on details. Which he did. Exactly the same details as he'd told me over the phone, i.e. nothing. So I emailed him back asking for more. Nothing.

Saw the job advertised online, under his name. It was in the right area, and it was good money (€30k entry level) but yes it was 7 days a week, 24 hours a day shift work, so ugh, but I was still slightly interested. Emailed him via the website. Nothing. Ever again. :rolleyes:

pickarooney

My worst experience wasn't entirely the fault of the recruitment agency, but I'll blame them, for the sake of convenience.

I was planning on moving to Holland, so sent my CV to a few international recruitment agencies (mostly in England) and within a few weeks had set up four over the space of a few days - one near Amsterdam, one in Utrecht, one in Delft an done in Eindhoven. The first, second and fourth ones were set up after several in-depth phone interviews with the agencies, as I wanted to be as prepared as possible, given that it was unlikely I could go back for second interviews. The third I set up myself at the last minute.

Off I set, from Dublin airport, via Charleroi, planning to take the train via Brussels to Eindhoven, sleep there at a friend's house and then catch the early train to Amsterdam in the morning and tram it to the first interview.
As you can deduce, this involved flying Ryanair. The flight was one and a half hours late due to "fog" which only seemed to affect the particular model of plane favoured by Europe's finest. It would be cutting it tight to get the last train from Brussels, but I still had enough time.
Enough time is a moot point when the Belgian railway was on a 24-hour strike.
Starving, tired and pissed-off, we (girlfriend in two for moral support and cause it was actually her friend we would be staying with in Eindhoven) trudged around Brussels trying to find something to eat and a place to stay on a tight budget. It was a no room at the inn scenario when thankfully a couple of male prostitutes came to our rescue, showing us the way to a hotel where rooms were let by the hour. As it was already past 2am and we were a three-hour train-ride from Amsterdam, we didn'tfigure we'd need too many hours. It was a decent place, considering, and I managed to get about three hours of sleep amidst the ambient sounds of copulating Belgians.
Lá arna mhárach, and mercifully the rail strike had not been extended. Two 45-minute delays en route saw us arrive in Amsterdam Centraal very much stretched for time, in fact already half and hour late for the interview. I rang the company, whose secretary had no idea that I was expected and who eventually went to find out what the story was. Grudgingly she told me to take the tram and to get off at the station 5 minutes from the door. A "you can't miss it" tone should have set off alarm bells.
In my defence, let me just mention that the last time I'd been in Amsterdam in a hurry to get to an interview the driver insisted on following his GPS system which told him it was a 75 km trip when I just needed to cross town.
I'd just missed the tram so had to wait for the next one. Having no mobile at this stage, I had to wait until I got off to ring the place again to apologise for the delay. At least I would have, had there been a phone booth in the vicinity.
Following the directions given over the phone to the letter, I soon found myself in the countryside, wearing a suit, sweating profusely, lugging a backpack with a broken strap, tired, annoyed and hungry. Somehow, I found a phone box and rang the company back, now well over an hour late for the interview. After a few minutes of insisting that I'd not strayed from the detailed isntructions the receptionist had given me, it transpired that she'd somehow assumed I'd be coming from the opposite direction. I was quite a bit away yet...
Close to two hours after the appointed time, furious and drenched in sweat, with my bag now in a worse state from the repeated kicking I'd given it in the interim, I rang the doorbell. "Greeted" by the indifferent receptionist, I waited to be called into the interview room, hoping in vain to be offered a glass of water (or a shower, a lasagne and a soft eiderdown). As the minutes passed, I invoked the power of Zen to calm my nerves and concentrated on the next task in hand.
The interview must have lasted close to seven minutes, by which time I was literally pleading with them to stop the interrogation. I had not one inkling of what they were talking about, having applied for a junior C++ engineer position while they were expecting a senior Oracle DBA with three years of experience in java server cockamamie whatchamacomeagainnow? My three sentences of Dutch not being quite the fluent near-native speaker level they considered a basic requirement, they were probing me, taunting me I felt in slow English, which I knew was not the result of a lack of fluency on their behalf but the unmistakable patronising tone often taken by big meanies when addressing a severely retarded, badly-behaved infant.
"So you've not had much experience in coagulating third-proxy applets on a CORAD/Xbase++ interface within a framework of NebuLan-derived servers then?"
"Not as such, no..."
"But you have developed NargTarget modules for deployment in a SitCom/LBASE environment via overthreading?"
"Not recently..."
"I don't suppose you've debugged a Thron-parser slope-fault on DATIX?"
"The thing is..."
"You know Java, right?"
"A little..."
"Can you make tea?"
They allowed me to leave without showing me the door (or offering me that glass of water), confirming my suspicions that I had completely wasted their time - all seven minutes of it.
Had I any room in my emotional baggage to add a big box of dejection, I would have done so, but I was now nearly hallucinating from sleep, food and liquid deprivation. I had just over an hour to get to Utrecht for the next interview.
I wussed out.
As for the other two interviews, I was offered both jobs. One was exactly what I had been looking for since graduating, paid a fortune, allowed me to benefit from a 30% tax exemption granted to uniquely-talented foreigners (it's not exactly how it sounds), was in a beautiful town (hint: not Eindhoven), with a relaxed, former-hippy boss who gave me not only water, but beer anc strawberry tart during the interview, which was conducted from the comfort of his divan (he was sitting on a chair, in case you're reading that all funny) and as a bonus where my best friend has also just found employment. This interview I had set up myself.
The other didn't appeal to me in the slightest - low pay, dull people, high-pressure, ugly surroundings, not at all relevant to my CV.
I ended up in the second one as the nice company went spectacularly bust the day before I was due to sign the contract.
But I'm not bitter

Keyzer

Here goes -
After spotting a job on a particular recruitment website, i applied for the job (3 times because I wanted it so much), sent the recruiter 3 emails and rang him twice, both occasions I got reception and was promised a call back which never happened.

I sent the recruiter a sarcastic mail, as I was really annoyed, about all the positive stuff on his companys site being nonsense and thanking him for getting back to me (still being sarcastic). He replied telling me he was very busy and had to deal with 200+ emails a day, to which I replied -

XXXXX,
Your excuses really aren't good enough.
I rang twice last week to speak with you in relation to the position advertised and was promised a call back on both occasions but no one called me.
I also applied for the job twice, sent my CV to xxxx@xxxxx.xx twice and mail you personally once, and still no reply. I don't dispute the fact that you are busy in your position but 200 hundred e-mails a day must be spread over the whole xxxxx team therefore all you need to do is create a simple mail stationary to respond to these mails.

Also, it takes no more than 30 seconds to compose an e-mail of recognition and let someone know that you have received their mail, and another 30 seconds to let them know that they aren't suitable for a job they applied for. I can assure you a repsonse would go a long way.

Maybe you should look from someone's perspective who is looking for a job, maybe then you would realise how frustrating and demoralising it is when you apply for job and no one responds to you in any way shape or form. Why don't you and the rest of the xxxxx team try to break this mould which I assure you is rife throughout the Recruitment Industry? This behaviour gives you, your team and your industry a bad name, an example being I have heard numerous colleague's refer to recruiters as nothing more than shady 2nd hand car dealers and to be honest my opinion of the industry is not much better.

As it stands now I assume either my experience and qualifications are not good enough for the position or it has already been filled.
You probably wont reply to this note but hopefully you won't just delete it and you'll take something positive from it, maybe then I have achieved something inadvertently.



Suprisingly enough, he didn't reply.
I treat recruiters the way they treat me, like idiots.

quarryman

My worst experience wasn't entirely the fault of the recruitment agency, but I'll blame them, for the sake of convenience..............

i know that's going to be the best post i'll read today, and its only 10.40.

+rep for you good sir.....

RicardoSmith

pickarooney - classic.

Flew over to Manchester for one interview, the agency said the company would pick up the tab for the flight. Never heard from either after the interview.

Did another on Liverpool for a job in Chester, didn't get it but they offered me one in London which I didn't want.

Job hunting is as much about luck than anything. But agencies add nothing of value to the process but add a ton of grief, stress and expense. I'll use them if I have to but I don't take them seriously anymore.

skywalker

Keyzer, fantastic email.

Jack Feeney

pickarooney wrote:

My worst experience wasn't entirely the fault of the recruitment agency, but I'll blame them, for the sake of convenience.

I was planning on moving to Holland, so sent my CV to a few international recruitment agencies (mostly in England) and within a few weeks had set up four over the space of a few days - one near Amsterdam, one in Utrecht, one in Delft an done in Eindhoven. The first, second and fourth ones were set up after several in-depth phone interviews with the agencies, as I wanted to be as prepared as possible, given that it was unlikely I could go back for second interviews. The third I set up myself at the last minute.

Off I set, from Dublin airport, via Charleroi, planning to take the train via Brussels to Eindhoven, sleep there at a friend's house and then catch the early train to Amsterdam in the morning and tram it to the first interview.
As you can deduce, this involved flying Ryanair. The flight was one and a half hours late due to "fog" which only seemed to affect the particular model of plane favoured by Europe's finest. It would be cutting it tight to get the last train from Brussels, but I still had enough time.
Enough time is a moot point when the Belgian railway was on a 24-hour strike.
Starving, tired and pissed-off, we (girlfriend in two for moral support and cause it was actually her friend we would be staying with in Eindhoven) trudged around Brussels trying to find something to eat and a place to stay on a tight budget. It was a no room at the inn scenario when thankfully a couple of male prostitutes came to our rescue, showing us the way to a hotel where rooms were let by the hour. As it was already past 2am and we were a three-hour train-ride from Amsterdam, we didn'tfigure we'd need too many hours. It was a decent place, considering, and I managed to get about three hours of sleep amidst the ambient sounds of copulating Belgians.
Lá arna mhárach, and mercifully the rail strike had not been extended. Two 45-minute delays en route saw us arrive in Amsterdam Centraal very much stretched for time, in fact already half and hour late for the interview. I rang the company, whose secretary had no idea that I was expected and who eventually went to find out what the story was. Grudgingly she told me to take the tram and to get off at the station 5 minutes from the door. A "you can't miss it" tone should have set off alarm bells.
In my defence, let me just mention that the last time I'd been in Amsterdam in a hurry to get to an interview the driver insisted on following his GPS system which told him it was a 75 km trip when I just needed to cross town.
I'd just missed the tram so had to wait for the next one. Having no mobile at this stage, I had to wait until I got off to ring the place again to apologise for the delay. At least I would have, had there been a phone booth in the vicinity.
Following the directions given over the phone to the letter, I soon found myself in the countryside, wearing a suit, sweating profusely, lugging a backpack with a broken strap, tired, annoyed and hungry. Somehow, I found a phone box and rang the company back, now well over an hour late for the interview. After a few minutes of insisting that I'd not strayed from the detailed isntructions the receptionist had given me, it transpired that she'd somehow assumed I'd be coming from the opposite direction. I was quite a bit away yet...
Close to two hours after the appointed time, furious and drenched in sweat, with my bag now in a worse state from the repeated kicking I'd given it in the interim, I rang the doorbell. "Greeted" by the indifferent receptionist, I waited to be called into the interview room, hoping in vain to be offered a glass of water (or a shower, a lasagne and a soft eiderdown). As the minutes passed, I invoked the power of Zen to calm my nerves and concentrated on the next task in hand.
The interview must have lasted close to seven minutes, by which time I was literally pleading with them to stop the interrogation. I had not one inkling of what they were talking about, having applied for a junior C++ engineer position while they were expecting a senior Oracle DBA with three years of experience in java server cockamamie whatchamacomeagainnow? My three sentences of Dutch not being quite the fluent near-native speaker level they considered a basic requirement, they were probing me, taunting me I felt in slow English, which I knew was not the result of a lack of fluency on their behalf but the unmistakable patronising tone often taken by big meanies when addressing a severely retarded, badly-behaved infant.
"So you've not had much experience in coagulating third-proxy applets on a CORAD/Xbase++ interface within a framework of NebuLan-derived servers then?"
"Not as such, no..."
"But you have developed NargTarget modules for deployment in a SitCom/LBASE environment via overthreading?"
"Not recently..."
"I don't suppose you've debugged a Thron-parser slope-fault on DATIX?"
"The thing is..."
"You know Java, right?"
"A little..."
"Can you make tea?"
They allowed me to leave without showing me the door (or offering me that glass of water), confirming my suspicions that I had completely wasted their time - all seven minutes of it.
Had I any room in my emotional baggage to add a big box of dejection, I would have done so, but I was now nearly hallucinating from sleep, food and liquid deprivation. I had just over an hour to get to Utrecht for the next interview.
I wussed out.
As for the other two interviews, I was offered both jobs. One was exactly what I had been looking for since graduating, paid a fortune, allowed me to benefit from a 30% tax exemption granted to uniquely-talented foreigners (it's not exactly how it sounds), was in a beautiful town (hint: not Eindhoven), with a relaxed, former-hippy boss who gave me not only water, but beer anc strawberry tart during the interview, which was conducted from the comfort of his divan (he was sitting on a chair, in case you're reading that all funny) and as a bonus where my best friend has also just found employment. This interview I had set up myself.
The other didn't appeal to me in the slightest - low pay, dull people, high-pressure, ugly surroundings, not at all relevant to my CV.
I ended up in the second one as the nice company went spectacularly bust the day before I was due to sign the contract.
But I'm not bitter

Brilliant - Must have been a Nightmare looking for a Hotel ....the interview questions were pure comedy. Glad you found what you were looking for!

Respect,
Jack.

Keyzer

skywalker wrote:

Keyzer, fantastic email.

Cheers mate....

Jack Feeney

Keyzer wrote:

Here goes -
After spotting a job on a particular recruitment website, i applied for the job (3 times because I wanted it so much), sent the recruiter 3 emails and rang him twice, both occasions I got reception and was promised a call back which never happened.

I sent the recruiter a sarcastic mail, as I was really annoyed, about all the positive stuff on his companys site being nonsense and thanking him for getting back to me (still being sarcastic). He replied telling me he was very busy and had to deal with 200+ emails a day, to which I replied -

XXXXX,
Your excuses really aren't good enough.
I rang twice last week to speak with you in relation to the position advertised and was promised a call back on both occasions but no one called me.
I also applied for the job twice, sent my CV to xxxx@xxxxx.xx twice and mail you personally once, and still no reply. I don't dispute the fact that you are busy in your position but 200 hundred e-mails a day must be spread over the whole xxxxx team therefore all you need to do is create a simple mail stationary to respond to these mails.

Also, it takes no more than 30 seconds to compose an e-mail of recognition and let someone know that you have received their mail, and another 30 seconds to let them know that they aren't suitable for a job they applied for. I can assure you a repsonse would go a long way.

Maybe you should look from someone's perspective who is looking for a job, maybe then you would realise how frustrating and demoralising it is when you apply for job and no one responds to you in any way shape or form. Why don't you and the rest of the xxxxx team try to break this mould which I assure you is rife throughout the Recruitment Industry? This behaviour gives you, your team and your industry a bad name, an example being I have heard numerous colleague's refer to recruiters as nothing more than shady 2nd hand car dealers and to be honest my opinion of the industry is not much better.

As it stands now I assume either my experience and qualifications are not good enough for the position or it has already been filled.
You probably wont reply to this note but hopefully you won't just delete it and you'll take something positive from it, maybe then I have achieved something inadvertently.



Suprisingly enough, he didn't reply.
I treat recruiters the way they treat me, like idiots.

Keyzer,

I'm sure you're not on their Christmas Card List and much of your passion (great e-mail) went straight over their scattered heads. I must agree 100% - this is rife within the unregulated Quango that is the Irish Recruitment Industry. I sent a similar (fawk U) mail to a Headhunter recently who actually followed up with a smarmey response (will post) - Surprised your recruiter could 'let it go' but then again, they're probably not working there anymore!

Respect,
Jack.

Sleepy

Anyone actually had good experiences with Agencies? I'm thinking about making a move in January (want to get my raise & bonus before I go) and wouldn't mind knowing of some decent agencies for someone with Systems Analysis qualifications and experience in an ERP Support Environment.

Jack Feeney

Jack Feeney wrote:

Keyzer,

I'm sure you're not on their Christmas Card List and much of your passion (great e-mail) went straight over their scattered heads. I must agree 100% - this is rife within the unregulated Quango that is the Irish Recruitment Industry. I sent a similar (fawk U) mail to a Headhunter recently who actually followed up with a smarmey response (will post) - Surprised your recruiter could 'let it go' but then again, they're probably not working there anymore!

Respect,
Jack.

The letter to a major Dublin Headhunter:

Dear Sir,

I received the detailed job specification OK this time - I would have received it OK had you sent it to the CORRECT e-mail address I read out to you, letter by letter, on the first occasion we spoke - some two weeks ago. My e-mail address and phone number also appear on my CV?

Just to clarify - it was your office that called me and asked if I would
come to Dublin for interview. I suggested that I would need more
information and was asked to call you. I called you and I suggested that
if I travelled to Dublin, it would be for an interview with both you and
your client.

We concluded our conversation with you stating you would
send a detailed spec. later that day and we'd take it from there. Had
you not thought me suitable, you could have stated it, there and then,
when we spoke.

Trust and integrity are paramount in every relationship but in recruitment in Ireland these characteristics would also serve to clearly differentiate '**** Partners' from the good, the bad and the ugly or whats more commonly known as the Irish recruitment industry.

Please ensure my CV is removed from your files as soon as possible.

To which he replied:

Thank you Jack,

Not my total recollection of the proceedings but consider your request
done. Best wishes in your future career.

Yours sincerely,

Barry

Lesson.....Don't trust the bastards!

Keyzer

Jack - I couldnt care less what they think of me, i'm sure I have blacklisted myself with other agencies as well. I dont care, they are muppets.

I recently got sent for a Net Admin job, the recruiter never mentioned linux experience was neccesary.
Got to the place and everything went swimmingly until the tech part when I was asked what experience I have with Linux (I almost said I don't like linux, I prefer gillette cool wave) to which I replied "none"... needless to say I felt like a moron going for a job I wasn't going to get. The recruiter got an earful that day and subsequently I never heard from them again ....

A mate was called by one agency (computer cowboys or something) and was asked to lie on his cv about his experience with a particular system, that is shocking.

And I love the "if you know of anyone who might be interested in this position let them know", to which I reply with my own recruitment rates and how much % i want of the money they get for placing the person, to which I usually receive no response....

I apply to companies direct now....

RicardoSmith

Sleepy wrote:

Anyone actually had good experiences with Agencies? I'm thinking about making a move in January (want to get my raise & bonus before I go) and wouldn't mind knowing of some decent agencies for someone with Systems Analysis qualifications and experience in an ERP Support Environment.

If you mean contracting, then be aware that you need two or three times a permanent rate for contracting to be worthwhile. I've been contracting for 3 years. Just getting out of it. I don't know any "good" agencies. Of the 6 or 7 I've worked with all were pretty dire.

Jack Feeney

Sleepy wrote:

Anyone actually had good experiences with Agencies? I'm thinking about making a move in January (want to get my raise & bonus before I go) and wouldn't mind knowing of some decent agencies for someone with Systems Analysis qualifications and experience in an ERP Support Environment.

They're not all bad - its only the Majority of them that are corporate scum sucking bottom feeders. One in Cork is very professional and advocates weeding out all the Cowboys and apply basic, humane, professional protocols. I'm sure some of the other posters can advise but in my opinion the only good recruiter is a dead recruiter.

RicardoSmith

Jack Feeney wrote:

.... but in my opinion the only good recruiter is a dead recruiter.

...loving it...

Keyzer

Jack Feeney wrote:

They're not all bad - its only the Majority of them that are corporate scum sucking bottom feeders. One in Cork is very professional and advocates weeding out all the Cowboys and apply basic, humane, professional protocols. I'm sure some of the other posters can advise but in my opinion the only good recruiter is a dead recruiter.

I second that.....

Sleepy

Was hoping for a (semi)permanent position really...

Jack Feeney

Keyzer wrote:

Jack - I couldnt care less what they think of me, i'm sure I have blacklisted myself with other agencies as well. I dont care, they are muppets.

I recently got sent for a Net Admin job, the recruiter never mentioned linux experience was neccesary.
Got to the place and everything went swimmingly until the tech part when I was asked what experience I have with Linux (I almost said I don't like linux, I prefer gillette cool wave) to which I replied "none"... needless to say I felt like a moron going for a job I wasn't going to get. The recruiter got an earful that day and subsequently I never heard from them again ....

A mate was called by one agency (computer cowboys or something) and was asked to lie on his cv about his experience with a particular system, that is shocking.

And I love the "if you know of anyone who might be interested in this position let them know", to which I reply with my own recruitment rates and how much % i want of the money they get for placing the person, to which I usually receive no response....

I apply to companies direct now....

Keyzer,

They are muppets, without a doubt, but it takes several years to come to this conclusion. I gave up on them too but only after much frustration and a shouting match with the president of the National recruitment federation. His closing remarks were that my very genuine complaint was not justified, the recruitment industry needed some good news (it was 2002) and besides: THE SERVICE IS FREE TO CANDIDATES.

A week later he asked me to come onto The Neil Prenderville Show on 96FM to defend my 'statements' - I waited three hours on the phone line but he didn't bother turning up.

If thats Leadership and sh*t does roll downhill - it provides a fair snapshot of the industry - the good, the bad and the ugly (Irish Indepsndent).

Respect,
Jack.

Sleepy

Out of curiosity jack, have you a publisher lined up for this?

RicardoSmith

Jack Feeney wrote:

Keyzer,

They are muppets, without a doubt, but it takes several years to come to this conclusion. I gave up on them too but only after much frustration and a shouting match with the president of the National recruitment federation. His closing remarks were that my very genuine complaint was not justified, the recruitment industry needed some good news (it was 2002) and besides: THE SERVICE IS FREE TO CANDIDATES.

A week later he asked me to come onto The Neil Prenderville Show on 96FM to defend my 'statements' - I waited three hours on the phone line but he didn't bother turning up.

If thats Leadership and sh*t does roll downhill - it provides a fair snapshot of the industry - the good, the bad and the ugly (Irish Indepsndent).

Respect,
Jack.

Thats typical agency behaviour... :mad:

Padraig Mor

Recruitment agencies waste air that others could breathe. Have dealt with these idiots a few times - never once got any help from them, and was generally only contacted about jobs six months later when I had sorted one out myself!
Had to laugh one time - had an interview with this tool in Marlborough Recruitment (RIP). Anyway, a few weeks later, found myself in the unfortunate position of having to apply for the dole and who was there applying as well - yer man from Marlborough!

Spalk0

I had a problem getting rid of the feckers!....They got me a temp position as a forks driver before and the company said they would love to hire me but were not prepared to pay the 2 grand finders fee to the recruitment agency!I eventually rang them up to get my name of the books so i said i got new job and they asked me were which caught me off gaurd because i didnt think they were gonna ask me that!...had to make up some company name!hehe

Jack Feeney

Trigger! wrote:

I had a problem getting rid of the feckers!....They got me a temp position as a forks driver before and the company said they would love to hire me but were not prepared to pay the 2 grand finders fee to the recruitment agency!I eventually rang them up to get my name of the books so i said i got new job and they asked me were which caught me off gaurd because i didnt think they were gonna ask me that!...had to make up some company name!hehe

Sometimes thay can (like an STD) be very difficult to shake off - In my first book, I recommend a tried and trusted solution if they're turning up in your local supermarket or basement car park or generally stalking you - A DOBERMAN! :rolleyes:

Jack Feeney

Sleepy wrote:

Out of curiosity jack, have you a publisher lined up for this?

I do - I'm writing a series of three small publications (128 pages about 40K words each) in different ares of management. My first 'In Search Of Competence -ISBN 1903464471' was released in Ireland/UK in March this year and in Canada, USA and Japan in August. There's an autor interview about the first book and recruitment consultants on www.objectmonkey.com

www.objectmonkey.com/?A=getcolumnpiece&Ar=p=48^c=6^i=15^

The second book is at editorial review (The Tower Of Babble-HRM expose) and the third is about recruitment and is 90% complete. I am genuine in that I love the freshness of the feedback from the coalface ......confirms many beliefs!

Sleepy

Cool, I wasn't questioning your credibility, just curious as to how you got into it.

Jack Feeney

Sleepy wrote:

Cool, I wasn't questioning your credibility, just curious as to how you got into it.

Sleepy,

Didn't think you were - just saw an opportunity to shine and share my interview with Jason at ObjectMonkey.com - any tech. people will enjoy. The interview explains the career path - on a process re-engineering project in an IT multi-national....stepped on the wrong toes...got a CASH handshake...moved to Spain...six months later and red-raw from the sun, I sobered up and realised I written the first book....hope to make a life out of it.

Jip

Jack Feeney wrote:

The letter to a major Dublin Headhunter:

B]To which he replied: [/B]

Thank you Jack,

Not my total recollection of the proceedings but consider your request
done. Best wishes in your future career.

Yours sincerely,

Barry

Lesson.....Don't trust the bastards!

Jack, he wouldn't happen to be working for a company begining with C, ending with L and only having one letter in between ?

Jack Feeney

Jip wrote:

Jack, he wouldn't happen to be working for a company begining with C, ending with L and only having one letter in between ?

Jip,

No - not a company (with 70,000,000 Euro Turnover in 2003) begining with CP and ending with 'We be onto you very shortly and we will never send out your personal details and CV without your express permission'

It was a headhunting firm and word round the campfire was that they were different - word was wrong!

Sleepy

There HAS to be a market for a competent recruitment firm in this country. Wonder how you'd be able to get in and take over?

yossarin

what really bothers me is the obsequious nature of them (and HR in general). They're a bit like being in one of those destrutive relationships you hear about.

They love you yet never return your calls. they smother/bully you or discard you.

About a year ago, i was offered a second interview at a place. I told the recruiter that based on the first interview, i didn't think it was for me. she asked me to lie, stay three months (her commision period) and then leave. she said she would then farm me elsewhere.

I got a new job last month. the company seem to be wild about me. this recruiter is now insisting on taking me out for a drink. why? i got the job, you got your money. whats next ?

I think that the problem for these guys is that the nature of recritment has changed. it used to be (afaik) indivdual clients, take a commision, personal care. now they're just glorified database users with bad ethics and no integrity.

I can appreciate they they have targets, so it looks attractive to tell a round head to fit in to a square hole, but ffs thats your job !

Flukey

Jack, you should send a copy of your book to every agency in the country. They probably won't read it of course and if they do, whatever they think of it, they probably won't give you any feedback. Then there is always Joe Duffy. A lot of the same issues are being raised here, so it would be interesting what their responses would be.

Flukey

Of course companies can be slow to get back to people too. I suppose the agencies suffer from that themselves, which is why they sometimes can't get back to you. When you deal direct with companies in relation to jobs the same things happen. After doing an interview they will tell you that they expect to get back to you by a particular date. That date passes and you hear nothing. You naturally assume you have not got it. You ring them to confirm it, but when you do, they tell you that it has been set back a bit and they will get back to you soon. The same thing happens again. It is very annoying. It would be nice if they let you know one way or the other and if it does go past the expected date, that they would let you know.

Another one that is very annoying is when you go to a company website looking for a job. On one page you see "We are always looking for staff." "Great!" you think. You then click the link to see current vacancies and you are presented with "We currently have no vacancies." So which is it? :mad:

You see ads for jobs staying up long after they have been filled. This happens on the general jobs websites and recruitment agency websites too. Even if there are vacancies or a general invitation to e-mail an agency or a HR person in a company, they don't get back to you, despite what is said. You leave messages on their voice mail, when a message tells you they will get back to you, but they don't! If you are a job hunter all this can be very annoying. It may not matter to them, but it is important to the person looking for a job and very frustrating.:mad: