Broadband Coverage Map for Ireland

eircomtribunal

Muck wrote:

I explained in detail how it is mathematically impossible for Eircom DSL to cover more than 18.25% of the country by the end of the DSL installation program in March 2005 . That explanation is Here
.

The real figure will be slightly over 10% I make it.

M

The geographic bb availability is a very valid indicator.

Other regulators, I remember especially the Swiss and Danish, publish nice maps of their countries showing the geographical bb coverage. Our Comreg conveniently stays very quiet about it. The visual impact would be too embarrassing.

That's why we should step in.

Any volunteers who'd do such a map for Ireland?

You'd need to add circles of 3Km (?) in scale at all the places where exchanges have been dsl enabled, as this is the geographical reach. It'll be kind of important that the 3 km circle is moderately exactly in relation to the map, to get the correct visual impact.
(Comreg are a perfect example how not to do it: In their 3.5 gig maps they had 50km circles, giving the impression that soon half the area of Ireland would be covered by 3.5 gig wireless bb – btw aren't all the 3.5 gig licence holders required to go live by November?)
Additional bb coverage could be added in a different colour, like NTL's cable coverage and wireless suppliers.
Preferably all on separate layers, so that it can be edited easily later on.
And NI can be bucketed out in a solid colour, as they will have blanket coverage within a few months.

P.

damien

Peter,
Such a map would be embarrassing and possibly damaging for those that sell us the fantasy of broadband coverage. GO FOR IT !

Any GIS students around the place ? Any Irish GIS forums ? I'll add this to the next newsletter when we ask for volunteers.

spongebob

eircomtribunal wrote:

The geographic bb availability is a very valid indicator..
Any volunteers who'd do such a map for Ireland?

Count me in.

You'd need to add circles of 3Km (?) in scale at all the places where exchanges have been dsl enabled, as this is the geographical reach. It'll be kind of important that the 3 km circle is moderately exactly in relation to the map, to get the correct visual impact.

Map24.de is quite useful for this sort of thing.

It is 4.5Km Peter not 3km (see my link above and the link from that) but a lot of these exchanges are near the coast or within 4.5km of each other and overlap which is how the 18% figure for DSL coverage gets reduced to 10 % or so in practise .

M

damien

Mods, can the Famous Five Mapreading Club inaugural meeting get moved to it's own thread ?

RuggieBear

damien.m wrote:

Peter,
Such a map would be embarrassing and possibly damaging for those that sell us the fantasy of broadband coverage. GO FOR IT !

Any GIS students around the place ? Any Irish GIS forums ? I'll add this to the next newsletter when we ask for volunteers.

I'm a GIS head.
I could do it... Just need a list of all the broadband enabled exchanges. (and grid refs if possible )

Ripwave

I now some people aren't happy unless they have something to moan about, but I have to point out (yet again) that cows won't pay for broadband.

Geographic coverage is irrelevant until you are dealing with 80%+ coverage. And if eircom could provide 80% people coverage with 30% geographic coverage then they'd be able to fend off most of the political flack that they might be seeing now.

According to the last census, 60% of the population lived in Urban areas (25% in "Dublin", 10% in Cork, Waterford, Limerick and Galway, and 25% in "towns with a population of 1,500 or more"). My guess is that this represents maybe 15% of the land area (anyone got an accurate figure?).

I know some of you don't have a very high opinion of the IQ of some of the journalists who cover this area, but they're not all stupid, and trying to convince them that geographical coverage of a static service is more important than population coverage will only make you look stupid, and lessen IOFFLs credibility.

eircomtribunal

Ripwave wrote:

Geographic coverage is irrelevant until you are dealing with 80%+ coverage.

and trying to convince them that geographical coverage of a static service is more important than population coverage

What's all that about?
Who is trying to convince them that geographical coverage of a static service is more important than population coverage?

When certain people are speaking of 70% dsl-coverage of the country, then it is only apt to have a look at a map of the country.

Geographical coverage is a valid indicator and used by other regulators, but not by Comreg, who only used geographical coverage maps in connection with their 3.5 gig licence, where they made a misleading mess of it.

A geographical coverage map will show very clearly that dsl covering 60% of the population is simply picking the raisins from the cake

Like it or not, 40% of the Irish population live outside towns and therefor providing a geographical coverage map is especially apt for Ireland.

You give no reason and I see no reason why geographical mapping would only be appropriate when coverage was in the 80+ percentages.

P.

damien

Ok lads, before you two start again let me just say that this is not going to be used as the sole measure for availability or take-up.

It will be used as one way of looking at distribution. If some spinmeister decides to be smart by showing off availability figures by area we can bring out this map, roll it up and poke them in the eye while going "eh eh eh" in the most annoying nasal tone we can manage. It's another way of us blocking them from getting away with spin.

Now, retract the claws and put your backs into the normal position again.

eircomtribunal

This is how the Danes map their bb access.
From the annexes of their 2003 annual report

P.

Ronan|Raven

Thread spllit from the Letters thread. If the name of the thread is incorrect I will gladly ammend

eircomtribunal

Ripwave wrote:

cows won't pay for broadband.

...but they show already a lot of interest.
P.

spongebob

Ripwave wrote:

I know some of you don't have a very high opinion of the IQ of some of the journalists who cover this area, but they're not all stupid, and trying to convince them that geographical coverage of a static service is more important than population coverage will only make you look stupid, and lessen IOFFLs credibility.

May I pi x r2 you again Ripwave.

Current Eircom coverage is 4.5 x 4.5 x 3.15 giving a maxmum theoretical coverage of 64km2 per exchange or 18.25% of the land area of the state. Real coverage is lower as

1. Lines are not straight
2. Some exchanges are located near the sea , Dun Laoighre for example
3. Many urban exchanges are about 4.5k apart anyway .

Were Eircom to provide the same service as BT in the UK where the same equipment (more or less ) gives coverage of about 10km or

10 x 10 x 3.15

then each exchange would cover 315 km 2 and would go a long way towards fixing the availibility problem would it not. I make 220 exchanges by 315km 2 is almost the entire land area of the state assuming perfect distribution and no overlaps .

Increasing effective coverage to international best practise standards would probably shut me up.

M

Ripwave

Muck wrote:

May I pi x r2 you again Ripwave.

You can pi all you like, Muck. Unless you have a plan to forcibly relocate everyone from the cities so that we have a uniform population distribution over the whole country, you're wasting everyones time.

(Our population density is actually more uniform than most, but that's because our average urban population density is considerably lower than most other EU-15 countries. Which makes the delivery of any distance sensitive wired service more expensive. Even if eircom had decent wires in the first place).

Gurgle

Ripwave wrote:

I have to point out (yet again) that cows won't pay for broadband.

Isn't it included in the headage payments ?

Blaster99

Here's an idea. Why not let these people do their map and see what they come up with? I don't really get the incessant need to shoot everything down all the time.

Never mind the tedious cow argument, it will be interesting to see what the theoretical coverage is like in cities and towns. The reality is that there are lots of well planned housing developments at the outskirts of many towns "near" Dublin and I bet a lot of those people can't get broadband. If nothing else, this map will be useful in terms of planning a house purchase and can be used by the locals to lobby Eircom or politicians.

damien

Well said blaster.

spongebob

damien.m wrote:

Well said blaster.

Meself and Ripwave had a long running argument over Nothing...where nothing equals 0 . This is mere banter.

Would you correct the map if asked Ripwave, sorta final proof read it if it existed .??

M

DonegalMan

Blaster99 wrote:

Here's an idea. Why not let these people do their map and see what they come up with?

I agree - and would be interested to see a detailed map of Dublin to see juts how many 'black holes' there are in our capital city - a lot more than people think, I suspect

Paddy20

Should a map not be made freely available, under the Freedom of Information Acts.

After all, we are looking at a vital service ?...

I would be surprised if some Gov.ie department, or Comreg, or Eircom, do not already have such a map readily at hand. ?....

Capt'n Midnight

If you are drawing lines from exchanges the the won't be circular , 'cos the cables don't run in a straight line. It would only indicate the maximum possible distance away from the exchange.

Anyone any idea what sort of correction factor is usual in these cases ?

bealtine

interesting idea.

Where will you get the maps from?
What scale will do you want to go to?
1/25000 or 1/50000 or 1/500 000 ?

The OSI charges a fortune for maps....

damien

So who's going to be working on this map ? Less talk now lads, start swapping emails via pm and get working.

eircomtribunal

damien.m wrote:

So who's going to be working on this map ? Less talk now lads, start swapping emails via pm and get working.

Nice to see Comreg on board with our geographic broadband mapping project!

They've finally redone their 3.5 gig FWA maps. This time they no longer show the big circle as the coverage area. Probably even the 15 km coverage circle is mostly wishful thinking and will not really be achieved. A look at the websites of some of the 3.5 gig providers who are meant to go live by November is not confidence inspiring.

Links to all the maps and info is here

P.

Here is as an example the map of the Irish Broadband licence area:

spongebob

Even though I am being Nice to Comreg for the next few weeks I feel I must point out that the service licence area is inside the black circles while the guard zone where no operator may apply for a licence except IBB is the bit between the Black Circle and the Red Circle.

Tppically , but not always, a single licence area is 15km radius or 700km square in area . Thats About 1% of the area of the state. The Dublin area is double that in radius at 30km but the Service area and Guard zone is 2900km Square combined. Therefore to service Cork or Limerick or Galway IBB have 3 x 700 service areas and have blocked the entry of ANY other carrier into 3 x 2200km Square Guard Zones. The areas within 15 and 30km of the larger towns is sanitised in this way unless IBB choose to service them .

There are good reasons for the guard zones .

M

Urban Weigl

Muck wrote:

Count me in.


Map24.de is quite useful for this sort of thing.

It is 4.5Km Peter not 3km (see my link above and the link from that) but a lot of these exchanges are near the coast or within 4.5km of each other and overlap which is how the 18% figure for DSL coverage gets reduced to 10 % or so in practise .

M

Drawing a 4.5km radius still would not be correct, because phone lines don't go out in straight lines like wireless does. For example in my case, I am 3 miles from the exchange (verified this myself), but the length of the phone line is 4 1/2 miles (according to Eircom technician).

bminish

Muck wrote:

There are good reasons for the guard zones .
M

However those reasons may not be technical..

What is it with the circles? some 15 Km circles are smaller than others, Galway for example is bigger than Ennis as far as the 'service area ' circle is concerned

eircomtribunal

Here's a version 1 map of dsl availability (geographical). Opinion and suggestions,please, before all the other dsl exchange positions are entered.

P

Creamy Goodness

that's a really good map fair play to you.

is bray 100% adsl? i didn't know that i must get it myself now so

eircomtribunal

Cremo wrote:

is bray 100% adsl? i didn't know that i must get it myself now so

Waved the magic wand to banish the colour coincidence.
P.

damien

Peter,
I'd change the NI section to a green colour and have the republic dsl exchanges at a yellow/orangey colour. A better contrast maybe doing it that way. Plus the towns on the map seem to have blue dots too.

lucernarian

Well done Eircomtribunal, this is an important step in Irelandoffline's campaign for improved broadband in Ireland IMO. The map is perfect so far. Keep up the good work!

Ba_barbaraAnne

Great map, Eircomtribunal. Now all I need is a map of exchanges that eircom have planned to enable soon!

Victor

Where is the list of exchanges?

damien

Resources section, top of this forum.

Victor

Handy stats from www.cso.ie

Number in	Private 		People
household	Households

1		 277,573 		 277,573 
2		 333,700 		 667,400 
3		 227,768 		 683,304 
4		 223,238 		 892,952 
5		 134,901 		 674,505 
6		 59,880 		 359,280 
7		 19,090 		 133,630 
8		 7,129 		 57,032 
9		 2,745 		 24,705 
10		 1,934 		 20,935 
Total		 1,287,958 	 3,791,316

Note. The census counted about 3.9m people - this included people who were not part of a priavte household on that particular night, including people at work, in hotels, tourists, institutions, etc.

eircomtribunal

I've put the original photoshop file of the map onto the server. You can download it and have fun, trying out different colours, adding in all the other dsl enabled exchanges.
For showing I'd propose to save the file "save for web" as a good quality jpg, sized 700 pixels wide.
If you've any questions mail me: info(at)eircomtribunal.com

P.

The 5 Mb file is here:
http://www.comwreck.com/downloads/dsl_coverage_map_v2.psd

(Safari users will have to control-click and choose "Download linked file as", because Safari falsely thinks it can display the file)

Paddy20

Now Ye're Talkin'

NOW YE'RE TALKIN', hope you are listening Eircom ?....

If you are, PAY ATTENTION .

Murray

I think this is a great idea. Whoever's brave enough to take this on (not me, I live in the US, and can't verify the true extent of coverage! ) might find the DCMNR Broadband site useful - supposedly you can search by practically every hamlet and town in Ireland to see what options are available. The URL is http://www.broadband.gov.ie/BBInfo/ServiceByLocationSearchWF.aspx.

Good Luck!

SkepticOne

Murray wrote:

I think this is a great idea. Whoever's brave enough to take this on (not me, I live in the US, and can't verify the true extent of coverage! ) might find the DCMNR Broadband site useful - supposedly you can search by practically every hamlet and town in Ireland to see what options are available. The URL is http://www.broadband.gov.ie/BBInfo/ServiceByLocationSearchWF.aspx.

Good Luck!

Unfortunately this seems to be overrun with satellite resellers. As an example, I chose Ardara in Donegal. I got:

Digiweb Satellite
Mediasat
Applied Solutions
Orbitlink
Pure Telecom Satellite

Look at all the broadband options available!

SeaSide

eircomtribunal wrote:

Here's a version 1 map of dsl availability (geographical). Opinion and suggestions,please, before all the other dsl exchange positions are entered.

The base map that you used is a little busy. A plain one colour map as the base would be better as most people are pretty familiar with the main towns and the purpose of the map is to show density and not whether a specific location has dsl.

Ciaran500

Wow, great map so far. I can already hear Mc. Redmond trying to make excuses for the terrible coverage.

eircomtribunal

Could somebody please look through the updated map, either on the earlier post here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1994132&postcount=27

or on the photoshop file download (5Mb) here http://www.comwreck.com/downloads/dsl_coverage_map_v2.psd

and let me know which places I have not covered yet (probably quite some).

I noted the suggestions about colour and busy background, but those things can be cleaned up easy enough later.

P.

lucernarian

Just after realising something, BT have committed themselves to 100%broadband population coverage but does that mean that every single bog and mountain peak is covered by DSL? Eircom could say that the map was an exaggeration of NI coverage

spongebob

Eircom are more than welcome to publish their own map .

M

ednwireland

i'm in an enabled area but still can't get dsl !!

Ciaran500

ednwireland wrote:

i'm in an enabled area but still can't get dsl !!

Your not alone unfortunately.

eircomtribunal

ednwireland wrote:

i'm in an enabled area but still can't get dsl !!

Your area is marked as "75% dsl enabled"

I'd need feedback about areas that I've missed to input so far.

P.

spongebob

The total by end March 2005 will be 223 exchanges IIRC

You missed the following

Donegal

1. Gweedore (nw )
2. Dungloe (w or nw)
3. Kilcar (sw, 15km west of Killybegs or so)

Mayo

Belmullet

Galway

Carraroe (40 km west) and
Carna (20km west again) and
Gort

Cork

Macroom (nw)
Ballingeary (aka Ballyvourney) west of Macroom

M

BigEejit

eircomtribunal wrote:

Could somebody please look through the updated map and let me know which places I have not covered yet (probably quite some).

I dont see Ballincollig, its several miles west of Cork City

jesus_thats_gre

How about making the blue areas that represent DSL availability transparent?

eircomtribunal

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

How about making the blue areas that represent DSL availability transparent?

Can you be more specific, or even do a bit of playing with the graphics on the photoshop file I've made available?


Thanks for the input with missing exchanges. I am sure there are a few more I've forgotten. I have the feeling the dots I've on the map so far do not add up to the number of exchange locations in the boards resource list.

I have included the missing places, but will wait with uploading the file in case I get some more hints within the next hours.

P.