More Merrion Messing

actiondan

I would agree with you to a certain extent Dev with regards to as you call it my "defence" of the merrion I think I strayed a good bit from my original post which was meant to question the seemingly endless criticisms againist the merrion and not to get into a row with anybody on boards. However some of the responses I got were hardly fair. Even pokertroll who in my opinion makes excellent points on boards without getting into a slagging match with anybody got unfair criticism on this thread. However I don't agree with being goaded into giving my real name , its not a lack of courage in not saying who I am I'm perfectly entitled to post here without giving my name, and its wrong to pressure somebody into doing so. Also this is about the fourth time I will say it on this thread Marq I have noting to do with the merrion. I happen to play in both clubs but thought that the merrion was getting an unfair repersentation on boards but as Dev saya a mountain was made out of a molehill.

later

Juan Pablo

MARQ wrote:

In a crude analogy, there's nothing wrong with preferring Man City to Man Utd, but perhaps you might want to consider not watching a derby in a pub that seems to be full of Utd supporters. You're only liable to bring unneeded stress on yourself.

As a city fan, I agree with this. However, EVERY pub in Ireland will be full of ManUre "supporters". And the sheer effort of supporting City brings unneeded stress.

As for the Merrion vs Fitz discussion, it has kept me entertained all day!

dropsy

Well put Marq.

I for one, am a fan of the Merrion, warts (tables, chipe etc.) and all. Having said that, I've played in the Fitz and enjoyed that too. Undoubtedly, there is room for improvement in both clubs and I agree with others on this forum that constructive criticism should always be welcomed by either club - it's bad business for them not to listen.

The one other thing worth remembering is that we are very lucky to have 2 clubs that we can play poker in at all. There's another thread just started from a guy in Limerick who has nowhere to play and we've got people coming down from the North every week to play tournaments in the Dublin clubs - from an Irish perspective, we are spoilt by having a choice of where to go.

There have been other past threads here discussing whether either club makes money from the poker tourneys they run and I think it's fair to say that the tourneys simply are not profitable (or, if they are, then very marginally so) and that both clubs make their money from tables games and possibly cash games. It strikes me that if we want to continue to have a choice regarding where we play our tourneys, we have to do whatever it takes to ensure that both clubs stay around.

So, criticism and suggestions for improvement are good and healthy to a point. On the other hand, it's self defeating to have criticism to the point where people will not go to one of the clubs because of what are, after all, minor irritations (chips, tables etc.).

Dropsy

amp

musician wrote:

Can we stop defending boards users' rights to expressing opinions while at the same time telling certain posters to sod off and stop reading boards if they don't agree with it.

There's a large difference between one person defending the Merrion but only backing up that defence with "you're too new a player to understand" and me suggesting a user to go somewhere they'd find a little less infested with newbie players.

I, for one, welcome pokertroll and actiondan's comments. I may not agree with them but they are perfectly welcome to express their opinions. If you think they are unreasonable fair enough but how about I said some of Amps comments were unreasonable and insulting. Evens it up a bit.

Please let me know which of my comments you find unreasonable and I will alter them to be reasonable.

Hobart

musician wrote:

Can we stop defending boards users' rights to expressing opinions while at the same time telling certain posters to sod off and stop reading boards if they don't agree with it.
I, for one, welcome pokertroll and actiondan's comments. I may not agree with them but they are perfectly welcome to express their opinions. If you think they are unreasonable fair enough but how about I said some of Amps comments were unreasonable and insulting. Evens it up a bit.

What muso said. I don't like the Fitz, for no particular reason. I play in the merrion, that's my preference, I like poker.

DeVore

What I find unfair is that I get it in the neck for things said on Boards. I've had a pretty cold reception in the Merrion the last two times I've been in there which hasnt helped me to return it has to be said.

What would you have me do with the criticisms?

Delete them?
Why should I do that, freedom of speech is what the site is about. If they were untrue or liabilous then I would but even Mags admitted she hated the way the tables creaked and would like to get new chips.

Counter them?
How can I? I dont even work for the club. They asked me to convey the message from them the last time that the club wasnt going out of business. Now every player in town had heard that rumour but as soon as its on Boards, I get it in the neck.
If the club wants to correct incorrect claims then I will gladly do it for them.

Tell them to shut up?
I dont think they'll listen to me and I dont think I want to do that, for anyone or any company.

So exactly what do you want me to do? You've made your point and said your piece and we've debated it here. There are difinitely people who are still angry about the debacle of final table last time, who dislike the tables and chips and lack of dealers etc and who want (and are going to) complain about them.

Dismissing them as children, newbies and poor players isnt really helping them me you or the club. Sorry that you felt I was harrassing you into revealing who you are but like I said, I'm willing to put my face/name to my opinions. Its a little like harrassing someone to take a charity ticket at the end of a tournament.

DeV.

Hectorjelly

best thread......ever

MadsL

best thread......ever

I thank you.

Hobart

DeVore wrote:

What I find unfair is that I get it in the neck for things said on Boards. I've had a pretty cold reception in the Merrion the last two times I've been in there which hasnt helped me to return it has to be said.

What would you have me do with the criticisms?
..................

I'm sorry DeV but TBH, it goes with the territory. I know you did not invite this crap on yourselve but as Admin and Owner of this site your are (indirectly) responsible. And, yes I know everybody owns thier own opinions and words, but that will not wash when it comes to representation.

DeVore

I think this situation isnt helped by the fact that the clubs management cant seem to be able to *tolerate* so much as each others names in conversation. All players I've ever heard of in either club refer to the other club as "around the corner" to avoid actually saying "Jehovah".

DeV.

pokertroll

I don't think ActionDan has been too controversial at all and I would share his views about the portrayal of the Merrion club in boards.
Over the last couple of months, we have had this same discussion about four times.

Most of the negative comments that have been written about the Merrion are coming from players that play mainly in the
Fitz but venture occasionally into the Merrion when there is a free tournament on (or maybe an SA event).

Generally the same complaints have been made about the club and I will address each one in turn here.

1) Let me make myself clear on this one as I don't think people are listening. Freeroll events do not have dealers, do not have a proper tournament director and are therefore not proper events in my
opinion. Madsl had a problem in the freeroll event which was not addressed properly by the acting tournament director.
This would never happen in a 'proper' event. Trust me on this one. It simply would never happen.
So much crap happens in these self-deal tournaments that they are not worth commenting on.
They do not reflect the operation of the club on a day to day basis.
2) Chips are crap, tables rickety. I think this has been overstated and is becoming a bit of an boards myth at this stage.
No, the chips are not the of top class clay chips with aluminium case standard but they are adequate.
I have played in a number of cardrooms and I would say that the chips and tables are average for a cardroom of that size.
Visit the Aviation club in Paris and you will see that the chips and tables are of a comparable, if not worse standard.
These are the same chips and tables that are used by the pro in the major events that are held in the Merrion each year. Generally the vising pros
are extremely complimentary about the club, thats why the come back each year.
3) Breaking promises, changing the prize structure mid-tourney. This never happens in a proper event.
The freeroll has always handed out vouchers for the midweek games to some of the lower placed players so I don't believe any promises were broken.
It is different to the Fitz freeroll event as they sometimes have different prizes on offer.
For example, the last time I played the freeroll, the prize was a voucher for the Irish Open.
I can appreciate that this might have confused some of the more Fitz savvy players but, personally,
If I was to play the Merrion freeroll, I would have asked about the prize on offer in advance.
4) Unfriendly, unwelcoming - Couldn't be further from the truth. Play there a bit and you will find that there is a great atmosphere in the place.
That is why I play there so much. Yes, Luke and Michael are a great draw for the Fitz and always remember my name.
But when Luke and Michael are not there, the stand-ins are dour and not quite as sharp at remembembering.
5) Charity Ticket scandal - ok Mags might have been a bit strong in her suggestion to take the charity ticket but it was a suited aces event so you should have told her where to go when it was first suggested.
Why let it drag it onto the final table. I certainly wasn't going to buy a ticket if I had won the tourney.
From what I recall, nobody did by a ticket - no need to feel guilty about saying NO. I wouldn't. Where were the rest of the SA
crew at this time. I know Muso was playing but why did Mags need to be there?

Also, why is it that negative comments about the club are so well received? Generally, until myself or ActionDan intervence, the threads follow the same
old pattern of unanimous resentment (apart from the more objective opinion of Dappergent, Hyzepher and Muso).
This from a bunch of players with only freeroll experience of the club.

Most of the anti-merrion resentment was spawned from a thread written by Dev a couple of months back about his experience in a freeroll tournament.
A lot of you have since played freeroll tournaments and this negative impression has been reinforced. See argument 1) above. I will never agree with this impression
as I do not consider such tournament a proper reflection of how good a club is.

Dev normally comes up with his usual argument 'Why is it so? Why is that we prefer the Fitz so much? The merrion are doing something wrong!'
The reason is simele. You all like the Fitz so much is because it is your regular club.
Its where you started. You enjoy playing there with familiar faces and enjoy the banter and bad beat stories posted on boards.
It is extremely unlikely that such a large group of people would suddenly start playing in another club - the habit has been formed.

I simply don't understand why people on this board are so hard on the place and are so willing to post negative comments.
ActionDan is right - anybody reading this board who had not visited the Merrion either wouldn't bother or would arrive there expecting a negative experience.

All I can say is, don't believe everything you read in the boards poker forum

Lets be constructive and not go overboard with the negative comments. It is too easy to Nitpick.

DeVore

1. You ever hear the phrase "no second chance to make a first impression?"

2. I bought into the 100 game and was 2 hours without dealer when I make the complaint you are refering to. One I feel is justified. One that I believe they have corrected since then, fair dues but perhaps it took a public complaint?

3. The first casino I played in live was the Merrion. That blows your argument out of the water.

4. Dont start me on the Charity ticket. You know (or should know) about Santa Strike Force, the Gaelcon Charity auction and the walks and cycles I periodically do. I'm not going to be bullied into buying a ticket by Mags, Dave Doyle or anyone else to prove I "care about the sick kids". SA were there at the final table (Muso and Gerire). Lets not open that topic again cos I was right in the middle of it and I've kept schtum until now.

SA will be back there, we'll put this stupid debacle behind us and we'll play cards. Thats what we're about.

DeV.

dirkey_wynne

pokertroll wrote:

1) Let me make myself clear on this one as I don't think people are listening. Freeroll events do not have dealers, do not have a proper tournament director and are therefore not proper events in my
opinion. Madsl had a problem in the freeroll event which was not addressed properly by the acting tournament director.
This would never happen in a 'proper' event. Trust me on this one. It simply would never happen.
So much crap happens in these self-deal tournaments that they are not worth commenting on.
They do not reflect the operation of the club on a day to day basis.

Pokertroll I don't think it's fair to dismiss these tournies as not being 'proper' events. These events are how a lot of new players come to the game - true/false? New players coming to the game is good for the game - true/false? Players who enjoy themselves will be more likely to come back than those that don't - true/false? Players wish to learn how to play the game properly - true/false? So the way I see it, it's a lot like when you first start to drive. People say to do your test soon, so you don't fall into bad habits. Because these tournies aren't 'proper' does this allow them to not enforce the rules correctly? No. Why? Because people are practicing, some are learning the game. If they get into bad habits early it's not good. How far does it go with bad rulings just because it's not a 'proper' tournament? Should string betting be allowed??

pokertroll wrote:

3) Breaking promises, changing the prize structure mid-tourney. This never happens in a proper event.
The freeroll has always handed out vouchers for the midweek games to some of the lower placed players so I don't believe any promises were broken.
It is different to the Fitz freeroll event as they sometimes have different prizes on offer.
For example, the last time I played the freeroll, the prize was a voucher for the Irish Open.
I can appreciate that this might have confused some of the more Fitz savvy players but, personally,
If I was to play the Merrion freeroll, I would have asked about the prize on offer in advance.

Again, should they be allowed change what they are giving out? I really don't think so. If I entered a tournie, be it a 200E freezeout, or a freeroll for a ticket, I would like to know what I'm playing for. If I'm told there are 5 tickets to a certain tournament for the 5 winners, and nothing else, and I then register, and perhaps even rebuy before hearing this is not the case, I would not be happy. I really don't think that should be allowed.

pokertroll wrote:

5) Charity Ticket scandal - ok Mags might have been a bit strong in her suggestion to take the charity ticket but it was a suited aces event so you should have told her where to go when it was first suggested.
Why let it drag it onto the final table. I certainly wasn't going to buy a ticket if I had won the tourney.
From what I recall, nobody did by a ticket - no need to feel guilty about saying NO. I wouldn't. Where were the rest of the SA
crew at this time. I know Muso was playing but why did Mags need to be there?

Again, I don't think this is on. This is similar to the previous point. People entered on the premise of there being cash prizes. I was there at the break when Mags was asking the lads to accept the tickets as a deal, and to be honest from what I heard I was not impressed. She was practically telling them they had to take it. Fair play to the lads for standing up that day and not being bullied, as imho that's what she was trying to do. They didn't accept that and at least got it sorted so that it was a choice. She was trying to force the issue. This is not on. If anything like this is what she wants to do, it should be stated BEFORE the tournament begins, not at the halfway point. You may say there was a choice, yes there was a choice. But only because the SA guys didn't bow down.

Now I had an extreme problem with that behaviour that night. And I don't like the sound of the behaviour that was stated by MadsL who started this thread. But that's my opinion. But don't for a minute think I am on a witch-hunt against the Merrion. If this were happening in the Fitz I would be totally against it. The thing is I've yet to hear of something like this happening in the Fitz. Can you inform me of an instance when it has? No casino is perfect. But you seem to be taking this criticism of The Merrion personally. But to be honest it's warranted criticism. In my opinion.

pokertroll

Dirkey,

I honestly don't think they are proper events. No dealer no TD. Play in a low entry tournament such as the Merrion Sunday and you will learn more.
Its not as if the freerolls are that great value anyway - 10 euros a pop can add up for very little reward.
As I have said all along, if an event is not staffed properly it cannot be a proper tournament and cannot be used as a fair comparison of one club against the other. That is my main argument.

If boards discussion is all going to be about freebie tournaments, I'm not interested as I don't rate them.

Again, should they be allowed change what they are giving out? I really don't think so.

As I have said many times now, this is the nature of the Merrion freebie. The payout might have been different to the week before but this is how it has always been. As I said before, the last time I played the prize was a voucher for the Irish Open - 5th prize was a voucher for Wednesday!

If I'm told there are 5 tickets to a certain tournament for the 5 winners, and nothing else, and I then register, and perhaps even rebuy before hearing this is not the case

This did not happen from what I can see. The problem was that Madsl expected the prize structure to be similar to that of the Fitz but that is not always the case. Sometimes they hand out vouchers for other tournaments also. They handed out 4 Tues vouchers and 11 Wed vouchers that night - not a bad return for 5 tables.

The thing is I've yet to hear of something like this happening in the Fitz. Can you inform me of an instance when it has?

I have had rulings against me that I didn't agree with in both clubs but don't feel the need to start a rant about it. Sh*t happens.

But you seem to be taking this criticism of The Merrion personally

Absolutely not - only adding a bit of balance.

DeVore

One thing for everyone to be aware of is that (to my knowledge and according to them themselves) ActionDan and PokerTroll DO NOT REPRESENT THE MERRION.

People are getting noses out of joint because of their rather dogmatic "theres nothing wrong, its all your fault for playing newbie tournies" approach to the criticisms.

The Merrion Management may have an UTTERLY DIFFERENT POINT OF VIEW!
We dont know. I know that ActionDan has annoyed the f*ck out of me with the "sure you cant complain you're only new players" line but who is to say the Merrion Management arent mortified that the complaints havent been dealt with yet.

We went to talk to them recently about how SA and the club are going to work together and they listened and agreed to EVERYTHING we said. I think this SA tournie you will see the difference and we're really pulling out the stops to make the organisation better then anything you've seen to date from either club.

Lets see how things go and play it by ear. We've just arrived on the scene and everyone (Fitz, Merrion and the players) are having to adjust to deal with the new guys in town.

Ok, can we bury this now?

DeV

Edser

Maybe this debate should be settled man to man.

Of course I mean in a heads up tournie! Maybe even with a team event on the side, pro-Fitzers vs. pro-Merrions?


Actually, the world might be a better place if all disputes could be decided this way..

Me\ pictures George Bush, Tony Blair vs. Saddam Hussein, Osama Bin Laden in a team event.

George Bush - "All In"
- "Call"
- "Call"
- "Call"

George bush - "ALL RED!!!"

PS: this post completely tongue in cheek!

PPS: Best thread ever

actiondan

DeVore I havent said that people can't complain because of the length of time that they are playing poker. The point I'm trying to make is that it seems people are to quick to complain againist the merrion. Some criticisms are valid and are worth airing while others seem to using the freeroll as a measurement of how good the casino is which is wrong. There has been 2 or 3 people telling me that if I don't like their right to free speech and blah blah blah then I should stop using boards and it also seems that I have "annoyed the f*ck out of you" well whats good for the goose is good for the gander. If I feel that I have a point to make then I'd like to think I can make it without people been hypocritical and telling me sod off.

gerire

This has been a very good read from start, its amazing to think that people WILL come and play in the merrion next Monday as we are organising the event, but through other experiences they have had there, freeroll or cash tournie, they will not play due to the way things are run there. Personally I DO like playing in the merrion I have played the 100 game on many occasions and have made money from them. I too like playing in the FITZ and go there the majority of the time because I know Im going to meet people I know well.
A statement like 'you havent been playing long enough to make a valid argument' is complete BS it is the exact same as Amp saying you are a boards n00b and your comments dont matter, the fact is we are all here different lengths of time and all have an opinion on the matter. It would now be nice to see a tangent debate coming out of this as at this stage the circle is more than completed a couple of times.

dirkey_wynne

DeVore wrote:

Ok, can we bury this now? DeV

Eh apparently not.

actiondan wrote:

DeVore I havent said that people can't complain because of the length of time that they are playing poker. The point I'm trying to make is that it seems people are to quick to complain againist the merrion. Some criticisms are valid and are worth airing while others seem to using the freeroll as a measurement of how good the casino is which is wrong. There has been 2 or 3 people telling me that if I don't like their right to free speech and blah blah blah then I should stop using boards and it also seems that I have "annoyed the f*ck out of you" well whats good for the goose is good for the gander. If I feel that I have a point to make then I'd like to think I can make it without people been hypocritical and telling me sod off.

To be honest I've just looked at your very first reply within this thread, and you ended with the words "I would have laughed at you aswell and told you to grow up." If you told me you'd tell me to "grow up" I'd call you a patronising git and tell you to sod off also. MadsL started this thread to air a grievance he had with a casino. You then jumped in with a personal insult. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks to me like you were the one who went personal first. So then I don't think you can whinge that you're being told to sod off.

bohsman

PokerTroll -

Breaking promises, changing the prize structure mid-tourney. This never happens in a proper event

oops guess the Merrion read this and decided to prove you wrong when they changed the rules mid tourny during the winter festival

Best thread ever

dirkey_wynne

bohsman wrote:

PokerTroll -


oops guess the Merrion read this and decided to prove you wrong when they changed the rules mid tourny during the winter festival

Best thread ever

hahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

Classic. How long did it take you to find this thread? Fair play!!

DeVore

ah ffs!!!



I was rather glad that we had buried this thread. Begone.... lets just not go there, people!

DeV.

gerire

Fcuk me I must have been drunk when I wrote my last post above, it seems logical and makes sense, that is so not my styleeeee

bohsman

cardshark202

hahaha you sh*t stirrer i like it:D

Juan Pablo

Still the Best Thread Ever

Dub13

Not this again...

gerire

Ahhh Suited Aces!!!!

ntlbell

quality, i never read this first time round

I agree, best thread ever !

5starpool

ntlbell wrote:

quality, i never read this first time round

I agree, best thread ever !

best 45 mins reading I have spent in a long time!!!!!

3 camps now instead of 2........... (stir)