What's "Unix"

omnicorp

Does anyone know what "Unix" is?
I think it's an operating system but I'm not sure.
It keeps coming up on hosting sites and I'm planning on getting a website.

Fenster

Unix, in relation to you, is the server software used. It wouldn't really affect you if you're planning to put up a small website.

There's a lot, lot more to it, but that's the gist of it.

omnicorp

thanks, what's the benefit of using it for servers?

MrNuked

Unix is an operating system. Linux is based on Unix. Linux is free, and is more secure and bug free than Windows is, but Windows executables cannot run on a Unix/Linux system.

Fenster

MrNuked wrote:

Unix is an operating system. Linux is based on Unix. Linux is free, and is more secure and bug free than Windows is, but Windows executables cannot run on a Unix/Linux system.

The fact that I'm playing Q3A while I'm downloading files on mIRC through Wine disagrees.

omnicorp

right, i understand...

Raskolnikov

omnicorp wrote:

Does anyone know what "Unix" is?

Overrated.

omnicorp

thanks(!)

aidan_walsh

MrNuked wrote:

Unix is an operating system. Linux is based on Unix. Linux is free, and is more secure and bug free than Windows is, but Windows executables cannot run on a Unix/Linux system.

Correction. Windows executables cannot be natively executed on a Linux/Unix box. They can, however, be run in Windows emulators such as WinE, albeit with varying degrees of success...

Overrated.

You care to explain, or are you just going to act like an ass?

omnicorp

yeah, but will a Unix or Linux hosting plan work with Windoes XP?

aidan_walsh

What? They are two completely different operating systems... Different architecture, different functions, different purposes... You might as well be asking will this dog work with this combine harvestor...

secret_squirrel

If you mean if I host my site on a unix server will people using Windows be able to see it the answer is yes.

Your decision on which hosting server to use will be more likely based on what software you use to design your website. For example most unix servers wouldnt be able to host a website designed in MS Frontpage for example. (Assuming you are using frontpage extensions.)

Try browsing the web forum here or have a browse on the interweb for advice tutorials on building your own website.

Tom Dunne

doodle_sketch wrote:

They can, however, be run in Windows emulators such as WinE, albeit with varying degrees of success...

Doesn't WINE stand for Wine Is Not an Emulator? (sorry, couldn't resist it)

Omnicorp - to keep it simple. Windows XP, Linux, Unix, even the Macintosh OS X are all different flavours of an operating sytem.

They all do essentially the same thing, allowing a person (or multiple persons) use the facilities of a computer, such as networking, printing, storage etc. In your case, the facilities appear to be the hosting of a website.

If you create your website using Microsoft tools, such as ASP, IIS and SQL Server, you would probably host the website on a Windows server.

If, however, you create your website using MySQL, PHP and Apache, you could host it on either Windows or Linux (or other operating systems, for that matter).

And, as secret_squirrel has said, it doesn't matter what the server is, as long as the end user has a web browser, they should generally be able to use your website.

OfflerCrocGod

Here this should help you a bit.

Mutant_Fruit

OfflerCrocGod wrote:

Here this should help you a bit.

roflmao. Stop abusing the tiny URL system for personal laughs

Tom Dunne

OfflerCrocGod wrote:

Here this should help you a bit.

ROFL, Brilliant.

He should be sorted now.

Fenster

OfflerCrocGod wrote:

Here this should help you a bit.

rofl!

StRiKeR

doodle_sketch wrote:

What? They are two completely different operating systems... Different architecture, different functions, different purposes... You might as well be asking will this dog work with this combine harvestor...

lol, you're right about that, but in saying that, they are trying to make linux user friendly and more and more compatible and hoping it to be adaptable for windows users! but i think they still have a long enough way to go!

Unix and Linux are more less for professional uses, good for coding and server system! better in a way that viruses dont effect them in a way they effects windows! Different architecture! however they are good OS if you not looking to play games or for video editing! not so much for the multimedia side!

P.S. theres also software for linux to add windows compatible network neighbour hood!

jessy

UNIX is the Daddy that started it all. Just think we wouldn’t have C if it weren’t for UNIX

StRiKeR

jessy wrote:

UNIX is the Daddy that started it all. Just think we wouldn’t have C if it weren’t for UNIX

good point!!!

pickarooney

Eh? But UNIX was written in C. Or am I missing the point?

Yes, yes I am missing the point. There would have been no need for C if it weren't to develop UNIX. *sigh*

Cake Fiend

Raskolnikov wrote:

Overrated.

Translation: Too complicated for me

Paulw

jessy wrote:

UNIX is the Daddy that started it all. Just think we wouldn’t have C if it weren’t for UNIX

Unix wasn't where it started. Unix was written on higher OSs, and was written in C.

Capt'n Midnight

MrNuked wrote:

Unix is an operating system. Linux is based on Unix. Linux is free, and is more secure and bug free than Windows is, but Windows executables cannot run on a Unix/Linux system.

In theory you UNIX hosting should be cheaper since they don't have to pay M$ licenses.

Also if you looked at the sites you would have seen that it you use database / active code it determines which side of the fence to jump or at least should make the choice clearer. If you use microsoft code in you web site then you should use a microsoft server esp. if you accept that you (and possibly your visitiors) mayl be locked into their standards.

Capt'n Midnight

http://www.blacknight.ie/enterprise.php

Ignoring the prices the red X marks the things that can't be done in that OS, if you need these features then you would choose the other OS.

If you look at the prices linux seems to be cheaper - I don't know if this reflects not having to pass on the M$ license

dredg

Unix is a trademark held by the open group.
An operating system can be certified as Unix by paying the Open Group enough money (and by meeting some requirements). Solaris is a Unix, as is AIX.
Operating systems like (Free|Net|Open)BSD and Linux are 'Unix-like' because they behave in much the same way as a certified Unix, but have not had the Open Group's blessing (or paid wads of cash to them), though the BSDs have their roots in Unix, and is derived from the original Unix.

omnicorp

that's all great but do I need Unix for a Unix or Linux hosting plan?

Fenster

omnicorp wrote:

that's all great but do I need Unix for a Unix or Linux hosting plan?

Nope. All you need to do is format your page (mostly a matter of what bells and whistles you can and can't use) so it'll run on the Linux server.

You can make a page in Windows and upload it to an Apache server without problems.

Raskolnikov

omnicorp wrote:

that's all great but do I need Unix for a Unix or Linux hosting plan?

No.

omnicorp

good.

Raskolnikov

doodle_sketch wrote:

You care to explain, or are you just going to act like an ass?

I wonder if I made the same opinion on Microsoft would I have been labelled an 'ass'. Oh well, I guess the jury has spoken



Hee-haw.

Nevertheless, my reasons.
1. Unix hardware support is poor. Sometimes you get lucky and can find drivers for all your hardware and periperals, other times, not so lucky.
2. You get more and usually better (video capture/editing, image editing, etc) with Windows.
3. With a firewall and common sense, Windows is as safe as Unix. Stability wise, Windows has also come a long way.

omnicorp

true, and windows is more succesful but Apple Macs...

aidan_walsh

Raskolnikov wrote:

I wonder if I made the same opinion on Microsoft would I have been labelled an 'ass'. Oh well, I guess the jury has spoken:D

Actually, yes you would It was the one word answer I didn't like... A little basis and context never hurt a forum post, you know...

jessy

Paulw wrote:

Unix wasn't where it started. Unix was written on higher OSs, and was written in C.

Yes I know it was developed in "C", but Brian W. Kernighan and Dennis Ritchie developed C because it was unmanageable to write UNIX in ASM.

OfflerCrocGod

Raskolnikov wrote:

1. Unix hardware support is poor. Sometimes you get lucky and can find drivers for all your hardware and periperals, other times, not so lucky.

How is this the OSs fault?

Raskolnikov wrote:

2. You get more and usually better (video capture/editing, image editing, etc) with Windows.

Ditto.

Raskolnikov wrote:

3. With a firewall and common sense, Windows is as safe as Unix. Stability wise, Windows has also come a long way.

Firstly I disagree but I'm not going to start a rant thread here and now ( I've got thing to do people to piss off etc.. ) I fail to see how this has anything to do with calling Unix overrated when it comes to web-hosting; I would expect a small amount of technical knowledge from such companies....at least enough to protect themselves from something like let's.....say Code Red, right? 60%+ of the net doesn't run on Apache for sh1ts and giggles. As a single user, yes it's easy to secure Windows....but 1,000++ windows hosts take a lot more work. Don't get me wrong I like my Win2k ( best OS Redmond ever made ) but I'm not going to argue with the truth when it comes to web-hosting.

Sarunas

omnicorp wrote:

Does anyone know what "Unix" is?
I think it's an operating system but I'm not sure.
It keeps coming up on hosting sites and I'm planning on getting a website.

Its better to do your homework.

See the wikipedia's article on it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix).

Basically its an operating system which is know to be a grandady of all OS. Its written in c, and it has a philosophy of keep it simple and programming doesnt have to be complex (back in 60s most of the OS where written in ML, btw, first implementations of unix too were written in that, i think its in 73 that Dennis M. Rithchie and Ken Thomson re-wrote it in c. which was designed by ritchie) and rather than having one application that does everything, its better to have lots of apps that work together.

If you want ot know more, see The Art of unix programming, Eric Steven Raymond. and ofcourse google.

Sarunas

jessy wrote:

UNIX is the Daddy that started it all. Just think we wouldn’t have C if it weren’t for UNIX

Just remembered, if it werent for unix, there would be no BSD, which means there would been no vi, no tcp/ip (or atleast later), no sun microsystems and other milliion of things. Certanily, i wouldnt be here were i am right now, neither would you.

This articel is really nice:

http://dir.salon.com/tech/fsp/2000/05/16/chapter_2_part_one/index.html

omnicorp

yeah, it is, 'tis a fine 'aul article.

"Step out of yer veh-ic-le plis, ya f*ckin' eejit"
Gardai

"'allo, 'allo, 'allo... whada we 'ave 'ere?"
English Policeman

Sarunas

It is long, but if you're interested in it, you won't even notice how long you been reading it... Its just great piece of history.

Its interesting to know about the people / *cought hackers cought* that started things such as the basis of the internet today.

sceptre

Sarunas wrote:

which means there would been no vi

Oh heavens, awful:D


Actually I like vi. It's got all those purty colours

omnicorp

splendid...

Syth

omnicorp wrote:

true, and windows is more succesful but Apple Macs...

Windows is more succesfully on the desktiop, ie for the home user. However for web server and the like windows is in a minority. It's mostly unix. Mainly because it just works.

You may also see it written as U*nix, *nix and the like. That's to distingush unix-like and unix, which used to be a trademarked term but isn't anymore (but try changing hackers habits!).

And vi(m) rock!!

nadir

Syth wrote:

And vi(m) rock!!

sure does

10000maniacs

Sarunas wrote:

Just remembered, if it werent for unix, there would be no BSD, which means there would been no vi, no tcp/ip (or atleast later), no sun microsystems and other milliion of things.

Maybe technology would have evolved quicker if there had been no UNIX.
Evolution has a way of following another critical path if another path is blocked.

nadir

hrm

Capt'n Midnight

10000maniacs wrote:

Maybe technology would have evolved quicker if there had been no UNIX.
Evolution has a way of following another critical path if another path is blocked.

Huh ?
It would be interesting to see how many people would buy the latest versions of most software if the current versions were still available at reduced price. Techniques like stopping shipping (CD's / boxes are made by third parties (eg: stream) so needs ZERO investment to continue production of "classic" versions of popular sw) , not releasing security patches, and OEM licenses to stop you moving software, deliberate changes in file formats to prevent backward compatability, removal of free viewers eg: AutoDesk voloviewer, can't be counted as making technology evolve quicker.
The americans have a saying - "if it works it's obsolete!"

Point is a lot of the ADVERTISED techinical improvements in commercail software are there for martketing reasons not because people need them.

Most hardware these days are what are called mature products. Almost all of today's Passenger Aeroplanes are more like (speed / design / fuel used / wings ,tail tricycle, general layout etc.) the Boeing 707 designed in the 50's than it was to ANY passenger aircraft designed in the 40's
So sometimes change for it's own sake is not necessary.
BTW: the Russians still use what is essentially a Mark 4 ICBM for all manned space flights.

Have a look at http://sourceforge.net

One of the advantages of UNIX/BSD/Linux/GNU is that they are consistant , provide lots of developer tools and in most cases the source code is available. This means a application can be written and does not have to be rewritten for each OS nevermind each revision of an OS.

Microsoft used to release IE for the MAC, they used to support NT on PowerPC / Alpha and MIPS, instead now they mainy support some handhelds, but mostly intel 386 - this lock in to one HW platform is kinda limiting.
Wintell (windows/intel/dell)
The original intel 8088 was not designed for use in computers, in fact it used lots of tricks to minimise the amount of memory code needed to run. Things like segments being 16 bytes apart instead of 256, saved 240 bytes per program (woopeee) and caused DOS to have a limit of 640KB instead of 15MB, similarily having code and data in the same area means that buffer overruns which allow an attacker to take COMPLETE control of your system are now appearing monthly. (the 68000 could have address 16MB of data and a separate 16MB of program space - so could have got from DOS 1.0 to windows 98) Programmers could have worked around that anytime in the last 20 years but didn't.

When Windows 95 was released Apple put a sign up in Sandyford
"Windows 95, Apple 89" and that really upset Amiga users since they had all those GUI features earlier and true plug and play and you could put up to 12 processor cards in the expansion slots on some of them. XP Home LIMITS you to one processor, PRO LIMITS you to two processors.

Linux was designed for 80386 but has been ported to almost every platform with a processor as powerful and enough ram. Even Cisco are going to use it in their low end routers. Embedded XP by comparison looks like bloatware, is expensive and is playing catch up and because is based on the same windows code is probably susceptible to buffer runs caused by mixing code and data that good data validation could have made impossible 25 years ago.

Don't forget that MAC's run nix too, and windows inherited most features from MAC's - eg: MAC mice have one button , pc mice since the days of dos had two, but windows 3.1 / NT 3.1 rarely if ever used right-click.

Remember winmodems, try getting an XP driver for them.
On the other hand if there's an open source driver for any device it can be quickly be ported to most other OS's. One nice innovation from the NIX camp has been a wrapper for Windows drivers. Since you can't get the source code or information on the device you can use the native windows driver instead, eg: Captive NTFS , and Centrino Wireless drivers can work this way on linux. Many devices use different drivers for each version of windows

Patents were originally used to help innovation, the idea was that by giving the inventor a commercial headstart, everyone would be able to use the idea/innovation freely later on. Thus far on the SW side patents seem to be used to stifle competition. Fire, Using a Swing, Circular Trasport Faciliatators (wheel) and other things have been successively patented recently.

Sarunas

Syth wrote:

And vi(m) rock!!

hehe :-)

Sarunas

10000maniacs wrote:

Maybe technology would have evolved quicker if there had been no UNIX.
Evolution has a way of following another critical path if another path is blocked.

I doubt that, we can always play the "what if..." games.

Like most great things, UNIX was created by an accident (if you want to know full story read the wikipedia's article).

Capt'n Midnight good points! .

omnicorp

yeah, but does anyone know any more Unix related websites?

Syth

omnicorp wrote:

yeah, but does anyone know any more Unix related websites?

Well there is a UNIX boards here on boards.ie, it's right here. It's basically become a de facto Linux board though. And there of course bajillions of unix sites on the web, for more info see here. Most unix sites you'd come across would be for using the OS. What kind of information do you want?

nadir

I think we should make the point that 'old' unix isnt what you are looking for.

You want , BSD, OSX or linux