ManUtd.com subject of a police investigation

Dub13

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N146075040919-1115.htm


Manchester United's official website, ManUtd.com, could be the subject of a police investigation after publishing a guide to abusing Liverpool's players and supporters in Spanish.
Considering relations between the two sets of supporters is volatile at the best of times with some fans from both teams being subjected to brutal assaults throughout the years when Liverpool and Manchester United have met, police are thought to believe the decision to publish the article on an official website is particularly irresponsible.

The article appears on the club's official website under the section Fanzone and is billed as "Fanzone presents 'Spanish Scouse-Baiting' as Benitez's Hispanic Liverpool visit Old Trafford".

The article then goes on to explain the Spanish translations for some of the sickest chants directed at Liverpool supporters over the years - including "Build a bonfire, build a bonfire, put the Scousers on the top", "You find a dead rat and you think it's a treat, in your Liverpool slums" and "Feed the Scousers. Let them know it's Christmas time."

Alongside each English chant and Spanish translation is a picture of Rafael Benitez, Xabi Alonso, Luis Garcia and Josemi - implying that it is these four who should be targeted with abuse on Monday night.

While the police may want to talk to someone from Manchester United about the article, it is believed the website editors are under clear instructions from those at the very top to make the content of Fanzone particularly "edgy and controversial" in an attempt to appeal to Manchester United supporters who would rather get their daily fix of United news and comment from one of the many independent websites who have nothing to with the commercial side of the club itself.

While many Manchester United supporters have still not forgiven the club for removing the words 'Football Club' from their badge in 1998 (A decision made during Peter Kenyon's time at Old Trafford because they didn't want their 'brand' to be associated with football when it had become a leisure enterprise which could be linked tonon-footballing matters, such as clothing, media and even other sports such as baseball), articles such as the one that appears on the website today explaining how to abuse Liverpool's players in Spanish, are seen as an attempt to gain some credibility amongst die-hard fans who cringe when they see the likes of mascot Fred the Red.

mike65

I read that earlier, at first I thought it might have related to the standard of thier football this season and frudulent claims...!

Mike.

The Muppet

Manchester United's official website, ManUtd.com, could be the subject of a police investigation after publishing a guide to abusing Liverpool's players and supporters in Spanish.

Ah the poor scousers and their chants about united are all so polite. Maybe they should take a leaf out of the prisoners book and sue for trauma, what a load of rubbish.

Dub13

The Muppet wrote:

Ah the poor scousers and their chants about united are all so polite. Maybe they should take a leaf out of the prisoners book and sue for trauma, what a load of rubbish.

Maybe the scousers chants are just as bad....the differnce is Liverpool Football Club do NOTHING to encourage it.

LizardKing

Thats why they are known as MANU Scum ... isn't it ??

The Muppet

Don't tell me the legendary scouse sense of humour is a myth.

Do you find it offensive?

Lizzard king wrote:

Thats why they are known as MANU Scum ... isn't it ??

:rolleyes: Yep because united supporters are the only ones to have derogatory chants about their rivals. :rolleyes:

therecklessone

Jesus, what a load of arse.

Political correctness gone madddddddddddd.....

EKRIUQ

Abit of banter never hurt anyone, those scousers can get as good as they get

super_furry

Well they took it down from their site. Disgraceful behaviour by the PLC, but an action bred of obsession. As it is, they sing about Liverpool every game they play, maybe this way those watching Skysports in Spain can understand what they're saying as they're screaming about how much they hate scousers when playing Spurs.

Caesar_Bojangle

"Build a bonfire, build a bonfire, put the Scousers on the top", "You find a dead rat and you think it's a treat, in your Liverpool slums" and "Feed the Scousers. Let them know it's Christmas time."

eh, isn't rooney a scouser?

PHB

Don't get me started Caesar, the only thing hes got going is he hates Liverpool as much as Man Utd does

emertoff

All a bit immature and silly (the so-called investigation I mean).

smemon

ridiculous. its all a bit of craic at the end of day and both fans know that. its not hatred, its just passion for 90 mins.

super_furry

smemon wrote:

ridiculous. its all a bit of craic at the end of day and both fans know that. its not hatred, its just passion for 90 mins.

Having been at several Liverpool/Man United clashes, I have to disagree. The fans clearly don't like each other, there's nearly always some kind of trouble before or after the games and stuff like this serves only to fuel the problem.

Dub13

super_furry wrote:

Having been at several Liverpool/Man United clashes, I have to disagree. The fans clearly don't like each other, there's nearly always some kind of trouble before or after the games and stuff like this serves only to fuel the problem.

I have to agree with you 100%,I thought we were past this kind of thing.We all no it goes on and maybe it will always go on...but we dont need the clubs adding fuel to the fire,the last thing we want is trouble to kick of at games again.


Even the old firm clubs have moved away from stuff like this,as they know its a big No No.

Big Ears

Theres only one appropriate way to handle this .
Kick the PLC out of the Premier League , that way you will be damn sure they will never do it again .

note:this post may contain traces of being way over the top .

Guy:Incognito

Its a ridiculous thing for a club to do, really irresponsible. I wonder if any of you that said its only a bit of banter would see it the same way if Rangers had lyrics to sectarian songs on their website ahead of the next old firm game.

PHB

The thing that really gets me about it is that its totally racist.

Why in the world should they focus on bloody spanish?!
What about French Italian German, Its bloody ludicrous.

I think we should start a petition right here and now demanding that the website must produce the lyrics to all of there songs in all the languages of the EU!!!!!!!!!!!!

LET THE REVOLUTION BEGIN!

Ronan|Raven

I think most are missing the point about all of this. For the official site to have these things on it is very bad form. Had it been a fansite then fair enough one almost say and ignore it. Tempers before these games are always high and this wont help the situation. the whole police investigation is ott but none the less they should have had enough common sense not to print it up in the first place.

The Muppet

Lads chanting is part and parcel of the football experience if you find it offensive go and watch tennis or snooker and dont forget to bring your prawn sandwiches with you.

How can it be racist? Mancunians and Liverpudlians are the same race. It was meant as a bit of fun on the fan zone on a website and the politically correct mob are trying to blow it out of all porportion as usual

Guy:Incognito

The Muppet wrote:

Lads chanting is part and parcel of the football experience if you find it offensive go and watch tennis or snooker and dont forget to bring your prawn sandwiches with you.

So if they were chanting offensive things bout finnan being irish and cisse being black that would be acceptable aswell?. Anyway the point is not that they chant things but that its coming from an official part of the club that its ok to be racist in the name of fun.

kida

I think most are missing the point about all of this. For the official site to have these things on it is very bad form. Had it been a fansite then fair enough one almost say and ignore it

According to yesterdays UK Times(newspaper) - it was on the fans section of the site which is run by fans and there is a disclaimer saying that the views in that area were not the views of Manchester United. This is just the media trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. Its the same thing as making the bbc accountable for whats on the 606 website.

Guy:Incognito

well then for that matter all the mods have to do here is stick a little disclaimer on the front page and we can all say what we want bout who we want and no-ones accountable.

kida

AFAIK this wasn't a message board but a fans area, and it was removed. It might be the view of some fans, still not as low as the Munich chants, but it is stated it is not the view of Manchester United.(Regardless of where it appears)

The Muppet

Stekelly wrote:

So if they were chanting offensive things bout finnan being irish and cisse being black that would be acceptable aswell?. Anyway the point is not that they chant things but that its coming from an official part of the club that its ok to be racist in the name of fun.

Of course that would not be acceptable beacause that would be racist. From my undertanding of this story all the UTD fans have done is translate chants they have been singing for years with no charge of them being racist into a different language. If its not racist in English I fail to see how translating it into spanish makes it racist.

Maybe I,m missing somethin all I,ve read of this is this thread but I dont see anything racist in it. IMO its the politically correct mob getting on their high horses over nothing unless I,m missing something.

midget lord

a bit of banter is fine, but when you have the official site apparantly encouraging racisim, then its different

The Muppet

midget lord wrote:

a bit of banter is fine, but when you have the official site apparantly encouraging racisim, then its different

Can you post a quote of the racism please becaus I just dont see that in what i have seen of the story. Quite a few have mentioned it in this thread yet they have not supported that allegation with a quote.

kida

midget lord wrote:

a bit of banter is fine, but when you have the official site apparantly encouraging racisim, then its different

Either explain this comment or retract it.
1. It was in area of the official site that is self edited with a disclaimer on it.
2. What is the racist element you refer to - as The Muppet pointed out it is only transalting existing chants.

midget lord

Explain or retract? WTF? Are you a cyber cop or something?

Here is the racisim:

"Build a bonfire, build a bonfire, put the Scousers on the top", "You find a dead rat and you think it's a treat, in your Liverpool slums" and "Feed the Scousers. Let them know it's Christmas time."

It doesnt matter whether its a translation of an existing chant or not, that original chant could instil racisim, and in these instances it does. Whether or not it comes from the other direction or happens at every match is irrelevant in this instance as it appeared in the clubs official site, indicating that the club, are, in some way, supportive of it. Even if they have a disclaimer on it it is still racisim.

What if the Munich 'chant' was translated into chinese? Would it make it any less disgusting?

The Muppet

midget lord wrote:

Explain or retract? WTF? Are you a cyber cop or something?

Here is the racisim:



It doesnt matter whether its a translation of an existing chant or not, that original chant could instil racisim, and in these instances it does. Whether or not it comes from the other direction or happens at every match is irrelevant in this instance as it appeared in the clubs official site, indicating that the club, are, in some way, supportive of it. Even if they have a disclaimer on it it is still racisim.

What if the Munich 'chant' was translated into chinese? Would it make it any less disgusting?

LOL you should look up the definitation of racism mate . The Munich chat is sick ,United fans do not claim it to be racist.

If that's your evidence of racism then yes you should retract you allegation as Kida suggests as that is quite clearly not racist .

therecklessone

midget lord wrote:

What if the Munich 'chant' was translated into chinese? Would it make it any less disgusting?

A good point, but wholly unrelated.

Do you know what racism means?

midget lord

rac·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rszm)
n.
The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

Discrimination or prejudice based on race.


This is abject discrimination against scousers.

therecklessone

midget lord wrote:

Discrimination or prejudice based on race.


This is abject discrimination against scousers.

When did scousers become a distinct race?

CivilServant

Lets not get pedantic, yes racism mean hatred of a particular race. It's fanning the flames of hatred towards a particular group of people. And it should not be condoned either way.

All those people that think it's a bit of banter and everything is too PC nowadays, well that's the exactly the attitude that causing this problem. It's harmless fun except for those on the receiving end.

therecklessone

CivilServant wrote:

Lets not get pedantic

Why not? If someone wants to (falsely) claim this is an example of racism it suggests (to me anyway) that he/she hasn't a clue what he/she is talking about.

CivilServant

Because you're missing the point of the post. Which is it's not acceptable to be writing this kind of trash for mass consumption. You don't want to be encouraging more of this type of activity do you?

therecklessone

CivilServant wrote:

Because you're missing the point of the post. Which is it's not acceptable to be writing this kind of trash for mass consumption. You don't want to be encouraging more of this type of activity do you?

I don't care either way to be honest. Football fans will be football fans. Are you telling me Liverpool fans don't chant similar dittys at opposing fans?

Chelsea fans wave wads of £50 notes and chant "in your northern slums" at any club from north of London, Leeds fans sing the Munich song. Its all stupid, but none of it is as serious as racism, and if people want to muddy the waters by trying to link the two then I'll call them on it.

ManYoo were stupid to leave it on their site, disclaimer or not, but its hardly something to be getting on your high horse over.

Oh, by the way. I work with a St. Pats fan and I'm a Shels fan. He sings "always look on the northside for shi*te"to wind me up, am I supposed to be offended?

midget lord

Hold on a second recklessone, its discriminating against a certain section of the community, so in effect it is racisim.

race1 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rs)
n.
A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics.
A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race.
A genealogical line; a lineage.
Humans considered as a group.

By going about saying that a person with a different viewpoint does not know what they are talking about displays ignorance, perhaps you should fully research what you are talking about.

If we were to apply your logic in saying that discrimination against scousers is not racisim then i assume the discrimination against the bosnian muslims was not racisim either? They dont have to be a seperate country to be on the receiving end of racisim.

Dub13

They just issued an apology



"Fanzone is an important part of our website because it gives fans the chance to express their views. There is an explicit warning that the views contained in that part of the site are not necessarily those of Manchester United. But this is clearly an occasion where we got it wrong. We apologise for any offence that has been caused and have removed the offending items. We've put in place systems to try and ensure that this does not happen again."
Phil Townsend, Director of Communications,
Manchester United PLC

The Muppet

CivilServant wrote:

Because you're missing the point of the post. Which is it's not acceptable to be writing this kind of trash for mass consumption. You don't want to be encouraging more of this type of activity do you?

Sorry Civil Servant but making accusations of racism is a serious allegation and defending againts it is in no way pedantic IMO.

If he had said the chants were in bad taste I would have agreed with him but pointed out its part an parcel of being a football supporter irrespective of whatever club you support, which I did earlier in this thread.

therecklessone

midget lord wrote:

By going about saying that a person with a different viewpoint does not know what they are talking about displays ignorance, perhaps you should fully research what you are talking about.

I have.

A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics.

Do scousers have genetically transmitted physical characteristics? Shellsuits and dodgy tashs do not count.

A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race.

Of these, the closest you'll get is history or geographical distribution. Seriously though, the same could be said of people from Trim. Would you consider Trim natives a distinct race?

A genealogical line; a lineage.

Not even close.

And yes, I do recognise that you can live in the same country and be of a different race.

Dub13

If you no your History you will no that the English peoples bad feeling for the people of Liverpool comes from around the famine time,when Liverpool was flooded with Irish I think the popalation went from 80,000 before the famine to something like 300,000.So yes you can be Racist to people from Liverpool.

But that is not the point.We do not want to add to the bad feeling between the two clubs.Football has come a long way since the bad old days of the 70s & 80s.

midget lord

ìts gas that the one definition of a race you left out is the one that proves what was published on the man united official website is racisim is the one you do not respond to in the above post

Humans considered as a group

At the end of the day the site has withdrawn the article.

CivilServant

The Muppet wrote:

Sorry Civil Servant but making accusations of racism is a serious allegation and defending againts it is in no way pedantic IMO.

If he had said the chants were in bad taste I would have agreed with him but pointed out its part an parcel of being a football supporter irrespective of whatever club you support, which I did earlier in this thread.

I think you've got the wrong person muppet. I didn't accuse anyone of being racist.

I'm a supporter of people doing the right thing. Not the kind of listless apathy that some people take for granted. Doing the right thing has never ranked in the same league as doing the popular thing or doing nothing at all.

This thread was about the nature of the content on ManU's website. ManU have shown their stance by taking down the offending items.

Kone

Twas a couple of footy chants, let it go!

from a pool supporter!

/Kone

The Muppet

CivilServant wrote:

I think you've got the wrong person muppet. I didn't accuse anyone of being racist.

I never said you did.

therecklessone

midget lord wrote:

ìts gas that the one definition of a race you left out is the one that proves what was published on the man united official website is racisim is the one you do not respond to in the above post

No, its gas that you picked the one definition of race that is so open-ended as to be meaningless as "proof" of alleged racism.

I mean, my local GAA team are a group. Have they a right to be considered a race? What about my family? Or the 300 or so punters who shared a venue with me on Saturday at a gig? Or f*ck it, what about the "groups" we went to see that same day?

Its been removed from the ManYoo site, but I wonder will the police threaten prosecution for any fan identified singing the chants at tonight's match?

midget lord

get over it man.

therecklessone

midget lord wrote:

get over it man.

Can I prescribe you some of your own medicine?

LizardKing

http://www.breakingnews.ie/2004/09/20/story167370.html

United have apologised , lets leave it at that ... I did not see the fanzine page but I think its been blown outta proportion, its all part of the pre-match hype ... lets just get ready for hopefully a great game of football ... Come on the POOL

The Muppet

LizardKing wrote:

http://www.breakingnews.ie/2004/09/20/story167370.html

United have apologised , lets leave it at that ... I did not see the fanzine page but I think its been blown outta proportion, its all part of the pre-match hype ... lets just get ready for hopefully a great game of football ...

I agree , pity you were not that level headed yesterday when you labelled man united supporters "SCUM" which by Midget Lords reckoning makes you a racist.

Good luck with the match may the best team win, Come on UTD.