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YUM! hehehehehehehe

  • 17-09-2004 6:13pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,844
    ✭✭✭✭


    So I was down to $6 on this table after a $25 buy in. NL cash game on empire Gradually built it up to $105 (very nice in itself) and then this happened. I'm eirewoodchip.

    I was accused of "cheating" because of my comments. It can be a vicious game alright.


    ***** Hand History for Game 957444548 *****
    $25 NL Hold'em - Friday, September 17, 13:48:25 EDT 2004
    Table Table 14057 (6 max) (Real Money)
    Seat 5 is the button
    Total number of players : 6
    Seat 8: FatFingers ( $27.7 )
    Seat 6: eirewoodchip ( $105.73 )
    Seat 3: bakedog666 ( $0 )
    Seat 1: jimmyj2 ( $20.25 )
    Seat 5: chambers258 ( $26.38 )
    Seat 10: vjarch ( $15 )
    jimmyj2 posts small blind [$0.25].
    chambers258 posts big blind [$0.5].
    ** Dealing down cards **
    Dealt to eirewoodchip [ Ah 5s ]
    eirewoodchip calls [$0.5].
    FatFingers raises [$1].
    jimmyj2 folds.
    chambers258 calls [$0.5].
    eirewoodchip calls [$0.5].
    ** Dealing Flop ** [ 5h, 5c, 8d ]
    chambers258 checks.
    eirewoodchip checks.
    FatFingers checks.
    ** Dealing Turn ** [ 5d ]
    chambers258 checks.
    eirewoodchip checks.
    FatFingers bets [$0.5].
    jimmyj2: needed that flop last time
    chambers258 calls [$0.5].
    eirewoodchip calls [$0.5].
    ** Dealing River ** [ Ad ]
    chambers258 is all-In.
    eirewoodchip: Ive a high K!
    eirewoodchip: dont believe u
    eirewoodchip calls [$24.88].
    FatFingers calls [$24.88].
    chambers258 shows [ Ac, As ] a full house, Aces full of fives.
    eirewoodchip shows [ Ah, 5s ] four of a kind, fives.
    FatFingers doesn't show [ Qd, Jd ] a flush, ace high.
    eirewoodchip wins $77.39 from the main pot with four of a kind, fives.


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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,696 Hectorjelly
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    cormie wrote:

    I was accused of "cheating" because of my comments. It can be a vicious game alright.

    If someone limped utg with A5o & called a raise with it Id accuse them of cheating as well.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,844 cormie
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    6 players, pot odds, welcome to the weird world of poker. There are no rules to say what you should and shouldn't call with.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,638 Iago
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    personally I would call it cheating as well, but if a player is dumb enough to beleive that you've declared your hand then they deserve to lost whatever money they have! I mean seriously, in what world would you declare you had nothing with players still to act...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,844 cormie
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    Personally I feel the only way you can cheat in poker is to interfere with cards be it hiding one up your sleeve or taking a peak at your opponents hand. Anything else is just psychological phuckery. It's not all about cards.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,531 Drakar
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    I agree. Pushing your chips in excitedly, is another form of communication, but it's not cheating if you do that when bluffing.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,696 Hectorjelly
    ✭✭✭


    cormie wrote:
    6 players, pot odds, welcome to the weird world of poker. There are no rules to say what you should and shouldn't call with.

    Wait, Is this a joke? If you want to make money/win then there are quite a few rules you should folllow.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,881 bohsman
    ✭✭✭


    Grea tourny today by the way one of the best tables ive ever played at.
    Too tired to try an remember the lineup but there were 5 rocks then myself an Juan Pablo an the aggresive hector jelly


    Game #88358373: Texas Hold'em No Limit (US$2/US$5) - 2004/09/18 - 03:47:26 (GMT)
    Table "Upland" Seat 1 is the button.
    Seat 1: Nabber (US$721.50 in chips)
    Seat 2: oscarf (US$487 in chips)
    Seat 3: kodiak (US$586.50 in chips)
    Seat 4: MuckYOU (US$388 in chips)
    Seat 5: Brummie1 (US$546 in chips)
    Seat 6: Bora40 (US$424.50 in chips)
    oscarf: posts small blind US$2
    kodiak: posts big blind US$5
    HOLE CARDS
    dealt to oscarf [2h Ah]
    MuckYOU: folds
    Brummie1: folds
    Bora40: raises to US$20
    Nabber: calls US$20
    oscarf: calls US$18
    kodiak: calls US$15
    FLOP
    [4c 3h Th]
    oscarf: checks
    kodiak: bets US$15
    Bora40: calls US$15
    Nabber: calls US$15
    oscarf: calls US$15
    TURN
    [4c 3h Th][5h]
    oscarf: checks
    kodiak: bets US$35
    Bora40: folds
    Nabber: calls US$35
    oscarf: raises to US$80
    kodiak: calls US$45
    Nabber: calls US$45
    RIVER
    [4c 3h Th 5h][Ks]
    oscarf: bets US$200
    kodiak: calls US$200
    Nabber: calls US$200
    SHOW DOWN
    oscarf: shows [2h Ah] (A Flush, Ace high)
    kodiak: mucks hand
    Nabber: shows [9h 7h] (A Flush, Ten high)
    oscarf collected US$977 from Main pot
    SUMMARY
    Total pot US$980 Main pot US$977 | Rake US$3
    Board [4c 3h Th 5h Ks]
    Seat 1: Nabber (button) lost
    Seat 2: oscarf (small blind) showed [2h Ah] and won (US$977) with A Flush, Ace high
    Seat 3: kodiak (big blind) mucked
    Seat 4: MuckYOU folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 5: Brummie1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 6: Bora40 folded on the Turn


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,844 cormie
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    Wait, Is this a joke? If you want to make money/win then there are quite a few rules you should folllow.

    Not quite. It's texas holdem remember.


  • Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 DeVore
    Mod ✭✭✭✭


    I have come to hate A5 or in fact any kicker up to about 8. I fnck them away usually. There are only two times when I'll play them.
    When I'm on or near the button, no callers before me and Im well aware I'm on something of a semi-bluff!
    When they are suited and the blinds are very low. the later is simply because Irish people over bet ridiculously as far as I can see. If I hit my flush/flush-draw the EV of A-small suited is large and its worth a limp. A raise wrecks those odds and I'd just throw it away then. On an active table I'll toss Ace small off-suit without a seconds thought.

    DeV.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,844 cormie
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    Do you think I was wrong to call the bb and then the re-raise?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,636 henbane
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    cormie wrote:
    Do you think I was wrong to call the bb and then the re-raise?
    I reckon UTG is not a good place to call with A5o. 6 handed that puts you in middle position postflop. You're looking for two pair minimum and half the table are to act after you postflop.

    As for calling the raise. What would you have done if you had hit an Ace? Even two pair at that stage is running a risk.

    A5o is a hand that is going to get you in trouble. You hit the perfect flop. If you hadn't, I'm guessing you have enough sense not to chase with a paired Ace or middle/bottom pair into a raised pot. It's a waste of blinds that can be put to better use in other hands when you compare it to the amount of times you're going to hit that kind of miracle hand.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,844 cormie
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    A5 six way is not actually that bad. There 12 cards out of 52 with 6 people in, chances are most of the other 3 aces will be in the 40 rather than the 10. Plus there is also the aspect of others folding their hands. The blind and the re-raise were hardly damaging my stack.

    Plus.. its not all about hitting.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,636 henbane
    ✭✭✭


    cormie wrote:
    A5 six way is not actually that bad. There 12 cards out of 52 with 6 people in, chances are most of the other 3 aces will be in the 40 rather than the 10. Plus there is also the aspect of others folding their hands. The blind and the re-raise were hardly damaging my stack.
    Whilst it's true that 6 handed makes it less likely that another Ace is out there, it's not short-handed enough to make it a smart play. If there's another Ace out, there's a very high possibility it has you dominated. If everyone else on the table takes your attitude, no Ace is going to end up in the muck preflop either.

    As for damaging your stack. Any blinds leaking away from your stack is losing you equity in better hands than this. If your attitude is that limping in almost all circumstances is sensible, your stack will dwindle long before you start hitting these perfect flops. If I'd seen this hand, I would have happily sat down at the table hoping you would continue to play like this.
    Plus.. its not all about hitting.
    It's not all about hitting but if you're going to use that as justification for playing A5o UTG then why not play any two cards and see where you are postflop.


  • Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 DeVore
    Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Its not all about hitting but when its NOT you should be consciously aware that you are playing a bluff and act accordingly. In that case your cards are immaterial unless they happen to hit hard!

    You have 3 aces remaining. randomly distributed between 50 cards unseen. Thats an average of 1 in 17 cards. You have 5 opponents, holding 10 cards. so I'd estimate about ~30% of the time someone else is holding an Ace. Of that 1/3rd of the time they will be holding a weaker or equal kicker so about 20% of the time you are playing into an ace with a better kicker. OW!
    (I'm not very good at doing "normal distributions" in my head but that would be my gut feeling).

    DeV.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,844 cormie
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    so 80% of the time I'm right to call.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,636 henbane
    ✭✭✭


    cormie wrote:
    so 80% of the time I'm right to call.
    If you choose to read it like that, I think I'll be getting an empire poker account soon.
    cormie wrote:
    NL cash game on empire Gradually built it up to $105 (very nice in itself) and then this happened. I'm eirewoodchip.
    http://www.empirepoker.com/Downloads/1701957/EmpirePokerSetup.exe Would I be correct to say that your affiliate ID for empire is 1701957? Seems a bit sleazy to include your affiliate ID in a link on the board without saying you get a percentage of rake for poker.ie if I download the software through it? Or am I just being suspicious?


  • Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 DeVore
    Mod ✭✭✭✭


    80% of the time you may have the only ace at the table.

    How exactly do you make this pay? Particularly how do you make this pay for the times when you lose to A6 or better? You will lose more then 4 times the blinds I bet too!

    What do you do when an Ace doesnt come on the flop?
    What do you do when it does and you are first to act?
    What do you do when it does and you are bet at?
    (serious questions!)

    DeV.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,636 henbane
    ✭✭✭


    DeVore wrote:
    80% of the time you may have the only ace at the table.

    How exactly do you make this pay? Particularly how do you make this pay for the times when you lose to A6 or better? You will lose more then 4 times the blinds I bet too!

    What do you do when an Ace doesnt come on the flop?
    What do you do when it does and you are first to act?
    What do you do when it does and you are bet at?
    (serious questions!)
    I thought you were charging for lessons in the basics these days?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,844 cormie
    ✭✭✭✭


    When such situations occur I will take into account the amount bet etc. As I said, it's not all about hitting.

    You are correct Henbane but I don't see how it is "sleazy". Empire is simply hyperlinked to our id. Better for you to keep it in the Irish economy and what not;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,636 henbane
    ✭✭✭


    cormie wrote:
    You are correct Henbane but I don't see how it is "sleazy". Empire is simply hyperlinked to our id. Better for you to keep it in the Irish economy and what not;)
    I would class it as sleazy to include your affiliate ID without having the basic manners to advise people. I would have thought it was better not to give you or poker.ie anything on foot of that, thanks.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,844 cormie
    ✭✭✭✭


    henbane wrote:
    I would class it as sleazy to include your affiliate ID without having the basic manners to advise people. I would have thought it was better not to give you or poker.ie anything on foot of that, thanks.

    I started this thread to tell people about the hand. Not to advertise poker.ie.

    As "pimping" and other such methods are not looked well upon boards, I feel

    "NL cash game on empire Gradually built it up"

    would sound better than

    "NL cash game on empire (click here to download empire poker now through poker.ie as we will get a percentage of the rake you would usually be giving 100% of to empire poker) Gradually built it up"


    I do not see anything wrong with hyperlinking the word empire to empire poker.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,636 henbane
    ✭✭✭


    cormie wrote:
    I started this thread to tell people about the hand. Not to advertise poker.ie.
    Yet you somehow managed to find a method to include a possible revenue for poker.ie?
    As "pimping" and other such methods are not looked well upon boards, I feel

    "NL cash game on empire Gradually built it up"

    would sound better than

    "NL cash game on empire (click here to download empire poker now through poker.ie as we will get a percentage of the rake you would usually be giving 100% of to empire poker) Gradually built it up"
    So you know pimping/advertising/profiteering is not allowed but thought that it would be appropriate to include your affiliate ID?
    I do not see anything wrong with hyperlinking the word empire to empire poker.
    Nothing wrong with linking the word to empire poker but you didn't need to include your affiliate ID.

    If you were so keen on including your affiliate ID and getting a percentage of the rake why not mention it in small writing at the end and let the rest of us decide if we felt like giving you a percentage of our rake. How about you pay for a hosted board like the rest of the people looking to make money off boards people and stop trying to leech off people who use the poker board?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,844 cormie
    ✭✭✭✭


    henbane wrote:
    Yet you somehow managed to find a method to include a possible revenue for poker.ie?
    So you know pimping/advertising/profiteering is not allowed but thought that it would be appropriate to include your affiliate ID?
    Nothing wrong with linking the word to empire poker but you didn't need to include your affiliate ID.

    If you were so keen on including your affiliate ID and getting a percentage of the rake why not mention it in small writing at the end and let the rest of us decide if we felt like giving you a percentage of our rake. How about you pay for a hosted board like the rest of the people looking to make money off boards people and stop trying to leech off people who use the poker board?

    I really don't see your argument. It's quite simple really. I hyperlinked the word empire, to empire poker through poker.ie. It's hardly pimping now is it? Your saying there is nothing wrong with linking to empire poker but you don't think I should have linked it through poker.ie? I really don't understand why you think this. Why would I link it to empire poker and not through poker.ie? I really don't understand why you are so offended by this and why you are getting so worked up about it. I am hardly trying to leech off forum users. If somebody is interested in downloading the app, they can simply click "empire". Yes I will get rake %, I don't see how that bothers you. I didn't stick it in anyones face or anything similar. Also, thank you for your suggestion, but I have already arranged for a "paid" board of my own. Thank you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,696 Hectorjelly
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    henbane wrote:
    I reckon UTG is not a good place to call with A5o. 6 handed that puts you in middle position postflop. You're looking for two pair minimum and half the table are to act after you postflop.

    As for calling the raise. What would you have done if you had hit an Ace? Even two pair at that stage is running a risk.

    This is exactly right, the reason A5 is a crap hand is that you will almost never make money from someone calling down with a worse hand. In fact it will be you who will be making the second best hand repeatadly. You shouldnt be calling the blinds hoping to hit two pair, as you dont hit two pair often enough for this to be a worthwhile strategy. You cant make the nuts straight with this hand, and you arent going to be paid off with an A high 1 card flush.

    If you are calling in order to bluff, then utg is definitely not the place you want to be.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,844 cormie
    ✭✭✭✭


    This is exactly right, the reason A5 is a crap hand is that you will almost never make money from someone calling down with a worse hand. In fact it will be you who will be making the second best hand repeatadly. You shouldnt be calling the blinds hoping to hit two pair, as you dont hit two pair often enough for this to be a worthwhile strategy. You cant make the nuts straight with this hand, and you arent going to be paid off with an A high 1 card flush.

    If you are calling in order to bluff, then utg is definitely not the place you want to be.

    I disagree. I cannot say why;) but I do disagree. haha.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,696 Hectorjelly
    ✭✭✭


    cormie wrote:
    I disagree. I cannot say why;) but I do disagree. haha.

    If anyone believes that then send me a pm.... I have a bridge I want to sell you


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,844 cormie
    ✭✭✭✭


    pm sent:)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,838 DapperGent
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    cormie wrote:
    I cannot say why;)
    It doesn't matter why. You're wrong.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,844 cormie
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    DapperGent wrote:
    It doesn't matter why. You're wrong.

    There's not really a definitive right and wrong in poker.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,169 dangerman
    ✭✭✭


    There's not really a definitive right and wrong in poker.

    Quite. That sounds like one of those things one of those newbies who calls your 5 times the big blind raise with 2 3 and cracks ur aces with a bizarro-world card on the river would say afterwords. Maybe you should be working on roulette.ie? :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,844 cormie
    ✭✭✭✭


    dangerman wrote:
    Quite. That sounds like one of those things one of those newbies who calls your 5 times the big blind raise with 2 3 and cracks ur aces with a bizarro-world card on the river would say afterwords. Maybe you should be working on roulette.ie? :rolleyes:

    Maybe yeah.

    Sure I'll give poker a chance. I like the colours on the carda and watching the dealers do the shuffles and stuff. Crazy.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,476 Samba
    ✭✭✭


    Cormie, you are right, keep playing A5, give Kermit and Ms.Piggy my regards too.

    I am not implying that you are a muppet, but that is muppet play and will land u in the ****s eventually.

    I am going to ask this question again, do you want to make money online?

    It's not a case of right or wrong it is a question of win/lose money.

    If answer is yes, don't play A5o, not even on SB.

    You got lucky, play A5o and come back here and truthfully tell us how many hands you won with it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,636 henbane
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    cormie wrote:
    I really don't see your argument. It's quite simple really. I hyperlinked the word empire, to empire poker through poker.ie. It's hardly pimping now is it? Your saying there is nothing wrong with linking to empire poker but you don't think I should have linked it through poker.ie? I really don't understand why you think this. Why would I link it to empire poker and not through poker.ie? I really don't understand why you are so offended by this and why you are getting so worked up about it. I am hardly trying to leech off forum users. If somebody is interested in downloading the app, they can simply click "empire". Yes I will get rake %, I don't see how that bothers you. I didn't stick it in anyones face or anything similar. Also, thank you for your suggestion, but I have already arranged for a "paid" board of my own. Thank you.
    You don't see my argument? You see nothing wrong with trying to make money off the people who visit this board? It's quite simple really. Not enough people go to poker.ie so you're under the impression that the people who read this poker board should be a source of revenue for you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,835 karlh
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    :eek: lol


  • Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 DeVore
    Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Ok Chalm down chalm down.

    Link is edited to direct people to empire.com's front page. Cormie, direct pimpage is frowned on, a small image in your sig or a link in your sig is acceptible.
    Can we get back to why A5 is a dodgy hand?

    Is it dodgier then A6 which has no straight possibilities?
    How would people play A5 on the button when its folded round to you?

    DeV.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,832 careca
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    DeVore wrote:
    How would people play A5 on the button when its folded round to you?

    DeV.

    I would just call, as a raise could look like a blind steal and might be reraised, in which case you'd have to muck it. If an A flops and it got to me I would put in a medium bet but if a bet came around to me I would probably muck. I think what I'm trying to say is that I would certainly not muck them in the first place, regardless of how bad some people think this play is.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 4,668 Hyzepher
    Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Of course heads-up I would bet them ... :)

    Hyzepher


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,886 Marq
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    On the button, folded around to me I will limp if it's suited. Yes, there is a good chance that you have the only ace, and if it flops you probably have the best hand, but, and this is important as far as your EV is concerned, if the ace flops, and you bet it, you're most likely either going to win the blinds right there, or get played back at by someone in the blinds who also has an ace, which much more often than not, has you out-kickered. So you're either winning a small pot or losing a larger one. I also try to remember cloutier's advice on playing marginal hands on the button: When everyone has folded around to the button, there's actually a much stronger chance that the blinds have a playable hand. A5 suited wants a flush draw, then it wants a flush, otherwise dump it unless you're sure you have the best hand. From any other position I dump it. Even in the small blind I'll pass it unless it's suited if there are lots of limpers (or ANY raisers) as if I hit, I'm most likely going to get into trouble, and lose money.

    Better hands will come than ace-five, there's no reason to play it. Online ring games are so very different to tournaments, where in certain situations, A5 might be a playable (albeit not a desirable) hand. In cash games, particularly online, where you can play a few different tables at once, there's no reason not to wait for something better. Be patient, and try not to get involved in hands where you're likely to hit a second best hand if you hit anything at all.

    I find it interesting that Cormie seems to think it's a good hand on the basis of one ridiculously lucky hand. If he were holding 5-2 he still would have had quads at the end and busted those aces out, but that still doesn't make 5-2 a good hand. The way I see it, Cormie won a big pot because he made two mistakes - limping utg with a sh1te hand and then calling a raise with the same sh1te hand. If you ignore the board and the result of the pot, you'll see that Cormie's Ace-Five was utterly dominated before the flop, the bullets are about a 90% favourite. The only thing that can help him here are two fives on the flop (just one and any decent player is going to be mucking his hand). He gets the two fives on the flop, and unless the case ace comes out on the turn or river, he has an unbeatable hand. Unbeatable hands pretty much play themselves - if anybody fails to extract all of an opponents money when their opponent as the aces and a full house and you have quads they should give up playing poker forever. But none of this luck makes playing ace five in the first place a good idea.

    Having said that. The guy with the bullets is more of a fúcking eejit for giving pretty much everyone in the hand the implied odds to call before the flop. I always laugh when some idiot gets his aces cracked because he only made the minimum raise and let the maniacs in. I laugh a lot harder when I see people playing ace-five though - then I follow them around and take their money. Ho ho ho, it's a hoot.


  • Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 DeVore
    Mod ✭✭✭✭


    The table is 9-way but its folded round to you on the button. You have just the SB and BB left to act. How would you play A5?

    I'd probably semi bluff a button steal and see where it goes. If I'm reraised then I'd call to scare him and since I have position I get to see the flop and the bet to me from him. Its a perfect place to pull the trigger again, but at that stage I might as well be playing 72o.

    DeV.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,638 Iago
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    DeVore wrote:
    The table is 9-way but its folded round to you on the button. You have just the SB and BB left to act. How would you play A5?

    I'd probably semi bluff a button steal and see where it goes. If I'm reraised then I'd call to scare him and since I have position I get to see the flop and the bet to me from him. Its a perfect place to pull the trigger again, but at that stage I might as well be playing 72o.

    DeV.

    Normally I would say that this should be played very aggresively, particularily if I'm playing against DeV (more to upset him than anything else..I love those flush draws!)

    However since seeing the light and becoming "The new Rock"* I would probably limp in and see what the flpo brings, realistically I think you have to accept that in the majority of cases you'll be behind after the flop. Potentially you could hit enough to keep you throwing money at it without winning..I've given that up


    [size=-12]*trademark pending[/size]


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,696 Hectorjelly
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    DeVore wrote:
    The table is 9-way but its folded round to you on the button. You have just the SB and BB left to act. How would you play A5?

    This question is meaningless without context, suffice to say if the blinds are small (as in most cash games) then there is no reason to play A5o anywhere. If its near the end of a tournament and your shortstacked, then A5 suddenly becomes good enough to go all in with!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,696 Hectorjelly
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    careca wrote:
    I would just call, as a raise could look like a blind steal and might be reraised, in which case you'd have to muck it. If an A flops and it got to me I would put in a medium bet but if a bet came around to me I would probably muck. I think what I'm trying to say is that I would certainly not muck them in the first place, regardless of how bad some people think this play is.

    So if you hit top pair and somebody bets your going to muck your hand? Why not just muck it preflop?

    Another probem with playing crap like this is, if you bet and get a caller you cant push push draws out of the way on the turn with a big bet as a lot of the time you will be behind to another A.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,806 Lafortezza
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    Marq wrote:
    I also try to remember cloutier's advice on playing marginal hands on the button: When everyone has folded around to the button, there's actually a much stronger chance that the blinds have a playable hand.
    The *only* thing I'd disagree with in your post is this, I wouldn't say its much more likely, not even marginally more likely.There's a post on 2+2 forums about this I'll have a look for it, but it was concluded statistically that it negligibly more likely for the Blinds to have a better than average hand if everyone folds to you on the button.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,886 Marq
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    the point here is about playing "marginal" hands on the button. simply because everyone else has folded doesn't make Ace-Five any better a hand. If the blinds have any sort of hand then they're at least likely to be on a par with Ace-Five, if not better than it. I suppose it doesn't really matter what the blinds have, the point is that Ace-rag is still a rubbish hand. A rubbish hand I went ALL IN with UNDER THE GUN at the final table of the free-roll on sunday after my jacks got busted by T-8. There you go. I'm a hypocrite.

    proving my point from the post above- I went all in (needing to go to work anyway) with ace-five offsuit and found both a bigger ace and a pair of kings. It's a bollix hand, muck it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,844 cormie
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    Henbane, no I don't see anything wrong with making money from people who want to download empire.

    Dev, ok if that's policy that is fine, I wasn't aware that such a thing was viewed as "pimping". Rules are rules.


    A5:
    Well as Dev (I know you all seem to trust his odd calculations) said, 80% of the time I'm the only one with an Ace. If an ace comes on the flop I'm much more likely to be the only one with an ace.

    About it being online, people would be calling the same type of bets with cards like Q 4 etc just because they have a picture card. Most of the time I would imagine I am ahead pre flop.

    There are many different possibilities. But as I have said, it's not all about hitting.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,696 Hectorjelly
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    cormie wrote:
    About it being online, people would be calling the same type of bets with cards like Q 4 etc just because they have a picture card. Most of the time I would imagine I am ahead pre flop.

    This is pretty funny, there isnt much difference between A5 and Q4.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,844 cormie
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    This is pretty funny, there isnt much difference between A5 and Q4.

    Well if they hit a Q and you hit an A, you will get paid. And a5 is much better than Q4.

    I just did this actually:

    Pre flop
    A5-23%
    98-22%
    22-18%
    Q4-15%
    K7-20%

    all off suit.
    A5 is favourite.

    Above are typical hands people online call with.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,638 Iago
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    cormie wrote:
    Henbane, no I don't see anything wrong with making money from people who want to download empire.

    Dev, ok if that's policy that is fine, I wasn't aware that such a thing was viewed as "pimping". Rules are rules.


    A5:
    Well as Dev (I know you all seem to trust his odd calculations) said, 80% of the time I'm the only one with an Ace. If an ace comes on the flop I'm much more likely to be the only one with an ace.

    About it being online, people would be calling the same type of bets with cards like Q 4 etc just because they have a picture card. Most of the time I would imagine I am ahead pre flop.

    There are many different possibilities. But as I have said, it's not all about hitting.

    I think what DeV actually said was that on average 30% of the time someone else would have an A and out of that at least 20% of the time you were going to be behind to a higher kicker..

    that's not counting the number of times that someone raising in this position will actually have a pair starting out, putting you even further behind, and the number of times that pair will flop a set either making you fold or worse again if you hit your A or even your A and kicker at the same time take all your chips...

    as I said in another thread "even a broken watch is right twice a day" that doesn't mean that it's a good watch, no more than you winning a pot with this hand means it's a good hand. Anyway you won't be dissauded from your course so all I can say is I hope I find you or someone like you on every table I play :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,838 DapperGent
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    cormie wrote:
    Henbane, no I don't see anything wrong with making money from people who want to download empire.

    Dev, ok if that's policy that is fine, I wasn't aware that such a thing was viewed as "pimping". Rules are rules.
    Jebus nobody cares if you have an affliate deal with empire or that you make money from it. They care that instead of linking to the main site of the empire poker you linked to your affliate page, a link to empire's main page (while totally unneccesary) just shows where you played the hand. A link directly to your affliate page is clearly an attempt to pimp. Why did you link to your own page rather than empire's main one unless it was an attempt to get people to download and make you money? This isn't rocket science, it's obvious and it's something you should have said "oops silly me" for from the moment it was pointed out rather than deliberately trying to obfuscate.

    Who else on this board could have started a simple hand thread and have it turn into a bitching session about pimpage and a slagging match about tactics?

    I've met you at the tables in real life and you don't seem like a bad skin at all but your skills at communicating with people online are woeful and you've been on this site long enough to have made some headway in improving them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,696 Hectorjelly
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    cormie wrote:
    Well if they hit a Q and you hit an A, you will get paid. And a5 is much better than Q4.

    I just did this actually:

    Pre flop
    A5-23%
    98-22%
    22-18%
    Q4-15%
    K7-20%

    all off suit.
    A5 is favourite.

    Above are typical hands people online call with.

    There is no typical hand online, I would think the typical hand at a 1c 2c limit game might be slightly different than at the 25 50 nl game that Spirit Rock currently crushes.

    Do you really think you will make much money from someone with Q4 on a A Q x flop?

    A more likely preflop combination would be

    AJ 24.4
    77 26.5
    910s 28.10
    45s 14.1
    A5 6.3

    Even if you leave out the AJ your odds are pretty slim

    KQ 24.6
    77 21.4
    910s 22.5
    45s 13.9
    A5 17.4

    You are behind everything bar the 45s.


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