dangerous driving - opinons please

damo

im up before a court on a charge of dangerous driving soon under the following circumstances:

caught doing 99mph on a dual carriageway(motorway in everything except name)

first offence

was late for a meeting, have note from my boss to confirm this and also saying that i need the car for work and am generally a good worker and it was out of charachter

also its a new car, hyundai lantra 1.6 litre which is an upgrade from a suzuki swift 1.0 litre...so ill be putting it to the judge that whilst i knew i was speeding i didnt realise that i was going quite so fast, i thought i was doing a more reasonable 80/85mph as i wasnt yet accustomed to the much faster and smoother feeling car i was driving

thats pretty much it, opinions appreciated on what kind of punishment you would expect for such an offence

Tommy Vercetti

I reckon you'll be very lucky if you keep your licence. The "new car" excuse, IMO anyway, makes you look stupid because you are effectively saying that you haven't a clue how to drive. The speedometer is in front of you, regardless of how smooth you think it is.

FX Meister

A note from your boss saying you were late for a meeting will get you no where, it's no excuse and bound to iritate the judge further.

mike65

http://oasis.gov.ie/transport/motoring/driving_offences.html

Careless driving: This is defined as 'driving a vehicle in a public place without due care and attention'. The Gardai enforce careless driving offences and this involves a mandatory court appearance. From 4th June 2004, a driver charged and subsequently found guilty of careless driving will receive 5 penalty points on their licence. Drivers may also be fined up to a maximum of 1,500 euro, or given a prison sentence to a maximum of 3 months. (You should note, the courts also have discretion to impose both the 1,500 euro fine and the 3 month prison sentence together).

Mike.

smokey2

you'll get a really big fine at best or a fine and points!!

would say you'll be looking at a ban though unless you've a really good solicitor to plead your case for you!!

100 mph is an instant ban afaik and you were just under it by 1 mph you'll be luck to get away with your licence!!

you have my sympathies mate been there myself but had a bloody good solicitor and the guard liked me for some reason!!!

I still shat a brick waitin to find out what my fete was goin to be!!!

Shoolaboola

Dangerous Driving makes me really annoyed, you should be ashamed.
grrr, so mad at u right now.

MickFarr

I got stop by the police doing 93mph and just got a speeding ticket he told me that if I had being doing 100+mph I would have had to go to court.

You will know next time. Good luck and I hope it works out ok !

smokey2

MickFarr wrote:

I got stop by the police doing 93mph and just got a speeding ticket he told me that if I had being doing 100+mph I would have had to go to court.

You will know next time. Good luck and I hope it works out ok !

maybe you were on a motorway and up till a couple of year ago (been that long since I was done for it) you could do up to 25 over the limit before you "had" to go to court!! was only a fine otherwise but now we've penalty points!!

Nuttzz

you were 39pmh over the limit. thats well over 50%. get a solicitor and dont even think of using the new car crap, if you past your test you should be able to drive any car

Kaskade

can your solicitor not prove that you were just speeding and not dangerous driving, ie was it bright, dry, good tyres on the car, are you an experienced driver, no history of dangerous driving. Dont really have a clue but people always get off with it and dont loose their licence.

Tommy Vercetti

a wad of cash for the poor box won't harm you either

secret_squirrel

Assuming it was 99 on a quiet dual carriage way in good conditions, its a fecking laugh calling that dangerous driving...just another case of bash the motorist i reckon. When they gonna be out catching real criminals etc etc...mutter mutter.

But since that rant wont help you in court. Will the ole 'keeping up with the traffic flow' excuse help?

And contrary to other posters definately mention you need the car for work and submit yours bosses note as proof. Although none of your other mitigating factors will help I reckon.

Merrion

You'll get 5 points for sure - and probably a fine - if you put your "mea culpa" face on...considering the top speed of the car is 112mph the cops will make the dangerous driving stick and if you are not contrite you could easily lose your license. If it were me I'd say "guilty" and "yes your honour" and let the lawyer say everything else.

seamus

damo wrote:

was late for a meeting, have note from my boss to confirm this and also saying that i need the car for work and am generally a good worker and it was out of charachter

"Please excuse damo's dangerous driving, as he was late for a business meeting"?

If I was a judge I'd throw the book at you for having the gall to even think about presenting a note. IMHO, it'll only come across as disrespect for the judge and the legal system.

Put your hands up, say "fair cop", and you'll get the lightest sentence. 10mph, maybe even 15mph, over the limit because of a bigger engine fine, but 40mph? Come on, the judge will think you're taking the piss. Especially if you say "I thought I was only going 80/85". Have you thought about how ridiculous you'll sound?

daymobrew

If you get your case heard in Cavan maybe you'll get the judge that (essentially) let two drivers from Northern Ireland off for speeds over 110mph.
In Galway there is a judge that gave probation to a woman who stabbed a taxi driver in the arm when he asked her to stop smoking in his cab!

[RANT]
I have no sympathy for you. I regularly report people breaking red lights to the Gardai, asking them to issue a warning. If the Gardai weren't so busy closing down teenage discos in non-trading licensed premises (ha! not illegal according to yer boss Minister for Justice!!) and putting speed camera on the Stillorgan dual carriageway these people might get points.
Of two junctions that I've reported multiple instances the Gardai told me they've had multiple reports from others too!! There was no comment that they were going to do anything about it.
Much of my ranting is because I am a (highly visible) cyclist but many drivers don't seem to see me.
[/RANT]

MickFarr

smokey2 wrote:

maybe you were on a motorway and up till a couple of year ago (been that long since I was done for it) you could do up to 25 over the limit before you "had" to go to court!! was only a fine otherwise but now we've penalty points!!

It was just before the penalty points came in so a couple of years ago but it was on the N3 before kells not on the motorway

Duckjob

Your best approach here is to plead that this was a one-off lapse in your otherwise good character, so a reference from your boss saying that you're normally of consiencious character etc. is fine, and also, your boss saying that you depend on driving for your work won't hurt. Just leave out the part about having changed to a bigger car, and especially leave out the part about being late for a meeting! You need to be seen to be really, REALLY remorseful about it.

You'll get a couple of points and a good whack of a fine at least, I'd imagine.

Seth Brundle

tell the judge that you were píssed and that it wasn't really your fault then but in fact it was the barman's fault!

impr0v

Given the current run of casualties and how close this issue is to the front of the newspapers atm, I'd bring some vaseline with me.

Apart from that, I'd agree with the other posters, honesty and contrition are the best policies.

PBC_1966

was late for a meeting, have note from my boss to confirm this and also saying that i need the car for work and am generally a good worker and it was out of charachter

I'll echo what others have said on this. A letter giving a character witness might help, but forget the rest.

Speeding because you found somebody badly injured at the side of the road and wanted to get him to a doctor may well be looked upon as mitigating circumstances. Do you really think the judge/court would accept being late for a meeting as an excuse though?

I'd forget pleading about a new car as well. It has a speedometer, doesn't it?

pixie_student

and people wonder why ireland has such a carnage on the roads lately :rolleyes:

If you wanna test out your new car.. theres plenty of legal track days on in mondello where you can safely drive your car at them kind of speeds. Check it out

Selik

I was stopped by a cop on the new Dundalk bypass a few weeks ago and he clocked me at 94mph :eek:

Afaik I'm gonna get a fine in the post and that's it. I was lucky I guess. The cop was a nice enough guy and was more concerned with the recent deaths on Dundalk roads as opposed to points and fines etc...

No arguments about the fine I was done fair and square but I honestly can't see how driving at 94mph on a perfect new motorway such as the Dundalk one in perfect driving conditions is that dangerous but I'm sure plenty on beg to differ...

Tommy Vercetti

pixie_student wrote:

and people wonder why ireland has such a carnage on the roads lately

How many were on motorways/dual carriageways?

HashSlinging

Tommy Vercetti wrote:

How many were on motorways/dual carriageways?

are you taking the piss.... 1 death is way to much..

ReefBreak

damo wrote:

caught doing 99mph on a dual carriageway(motorway in everything except name)

I haven't read the replies to your main post yet, but I have absolutely no sympathy for you. In fact, I suspect your "excuses" will result in you getting laughed out of the court (as you head to the bus/train/taxi).

Tommy Vercetti

HashSlinging wrote:

are you taking the piss.... 1 death is way to much..

It's a simple question. Maybe if Gardai spent more time patrolling the poor excuse for roads where the vast majority of deaths occur instead of safer motorways and dual carriageways, then maybe the toll wouldn't be so high.

delly

Its crazy that you can't object to a charge, for fear of getting a bigger fine or getting a ban. If it was a straight forward speed thing, i'd say 4 points and a few hundred notes, but because its dangerous driving, you never know.

Jip

Lads, what's with all this sypmpathy crap, he was doing basically 100mhp in a 60mph zone and is trying to use all sorts of excuses to excuse himself. There's probably more to it than him just speeding to get a dangerous driving rap, it was a dual carraigeway so it most likely had numerous junctions and traffic lights, were you putting the boot down between lights and weaving in and out of traffic ? If you used the "I was late for a meeeting, here's a letter from my boss, and by the way I didn't realise I was going so fast because it was a new car" you'd be laughed out of court and rightly so, the judge will see that you shouldn't be allowed on the road at all if you can't control a car.

HashSlinging

Tommy Vercetti wrote:

It's a simple question. Maybe if Gardai spent more time patrolling the poor excuse for roads where the vast majority of deaths occur instead of safer motorways and dual carriageways, then maybe the toll wouldn't be so high.

deluded.....

Shoolaboola

all you dangerous drivers should go kill yourselves, rather than killing innocent people with your driving. it should be you people that died not people like my dad.

sweeper4

deluded.....

Could you explain why you think Tommy is deluded?
I don't see the value in placing the majority of speed checks (Obviously they should still retain a proportionate prescence) on proven safe dual carriageway and motorway. Would you not see the value of a Garda prescence on our rural routes, especially at the times consistently flagged as having high occurances of fatalities?
Clearly our police force is currently in the business of trapping rather than prevention.

pixie_student

Tommy Vercetti wrote:

How many were on motorways/dual carriageways?

I'm not goin to even go there :rollseyes:

secret_squirrel

daymobrew wrote:

I have no sympathy for you. I regularly report people breaking red lights to the Gardai
[/RANT]

Relevant how? He was speeding not jumping red lights. For red lights I would agree with you - its much more dangerous imho than a few miles an hour over the limit. - especially in a half decent modern car.

Interceptor

Driving is a privelege, not a right. The licensing and testing system is woefully inadequate and there is very little 'car culture' in Ireland. I have no sympathy for anyone caught doing a ton on a dual carriageway - don't bother with excuses to the judge, tell it to the hundreds of people killed on the roads every year.

Tommy V is right, our roads are piss-poor but that is even less excuse for carelessness and it is not up to the cops to slow motorists down - it is up to the muppet with their foot on the accelerator.

Cars don't kill people, drivers kill people.

One final question, what is the stopping distance of a 1.6 lantra at 99mph? My guess would be too long and that you would be bringing a note from your boss to the funeral.

'ceptr

vector

smokey2 wrote:

you'll get a really big fine at best or a fine and points!!

would say you'll be looking at a ban though unless you've a really good solicitor to plead your case for you!!

100 mph is an instant ban afaik and you were just under it by 1 mph you'll be luck to get away with your licence!!

you have my sympathies mate been there myself but had a bloody good solicitor and the guard liked me for some reason!!!

I still shat a brick waitin to find out what my fete was goin to be!!!

You are looking at a ban so get a GOOD solicitor, even if it costs something like EUR 3000 (and you have the money) it is better than a ban.

A ban would mean getting the bus, with all that that engenders.

seamus

secret_squirrel wrote:

Relevant how? He was speeding not jumping red lights. For red lights I would agree with you - its much more dangerous imho than a few miles an hour over the limit. - especially in a half decent modern car.

Yeah great. But 40mph is not a "few miles an hour" over the limit by any measure.

OfflerCrocGod

Tough Luck. You are going to get f*cked in the a*. You wont like it. Judge will though.


Not much else to say about this

Krusty_Clown

Giles wrote:

I was stopped by a cop on the new Dundalk bypass a few weeks ago and he clocked me at 94mph :eek: Afaik I'm gonna get a fine in the post and that's it.

Expect points. I don't think they can issues speeding fines these days without points.

Victor

Giles wrote:

I was stopped by a cop on the new Dundalk bypass a few weeks ago .... on a perfect new motorway such as the Dundalk one in perfect driving conditions is that dangerous but I'm sure plenty on beg to differ...

The Dundalk Bypass (technically a through pass, not a bypass) is mostly ordinary two lane road, with a distinct (not quite sharp) bend, traffic lights and several entrances .....

HashSlinging

Tommy Vercetti wrote:

It's a simple question. Maybe if Gardai spent more time patrolling the poor excuse for roads where the vast majority of deaths occur instead of safer motorways and dual carriageways, then maybe the toll wouldn't be so high.

its very true.. you could overtake a line of 7 - 8 cars along a country road hitting well over a ton and not worry about getting caught. but if you are doing 80 on a motorway your looking for the speed traps... doesn't make sense at all. I think the reason for it is there's no where safe on country roads for the garda to place their VA-ICLES.

I've been guilty of accelerating very hard (overtaking or if someone is up my arse) but i always back down to the speed limit. Its not worth my while to get the points.

Sleipnir

There's no excuse for doing 99mph anywhere.
Go on and tell the judge you were late for a meeting and you have a "note from your boss" and watch his expression.
You might as well hand up a note from your mammy saying that she's already dealt with your boldness by banning desert for a week.

The "new car" excuse will get him all the more exasperated and if you use both I wouldn't be surprised if he leaps out of his chair at you.

I hope you get a ban for that sort of reckless driving. You don't deserve to drive.

IrishRover

Guys, I really have to wonder whether those of you who are showing such outrage and saying that you hope he gets banned from driving are actually motorists yourselves or not. Even if you are, I'd guess you haven't been driving very long or have much experience driving in different conditions and on different roads.

Driving at 99 miles per hour is not in itself dangerous. In fact, driving at this speed on an uncongested dual carriageway or motorway with a straight dry surface and clear visibility sounds like one of the safest situations to do so in. It's all about whether the speed is appropriate for the conditions.

30mph may be too fast in some circumstances, even if this is still under the speed limit. Just because something is legal doesn't make it right, and just because something is illegal doesn't make it wrong. 30mph may be too fast where there are children playing near a road, where there is a park nearby or where there are concealed entrances or bad weather conditions such as thick fog or heavy rain.

150+ mph can be perfectly safe on a three lane motorway with good visibility where everyone else is doing a similar speed and keeping an appropriate distance and observing correct lane changing procedures.

Anyone who is an experienced driver will know that this is self-evident.

All these knee-jerk reactions saying that this guy is basically the devil incarnate for driving above the speed limit on a road where it was probably quite safe to do so seem quite ill-founded and are definitely not constructive. The guy asked a question about what kind of punishment he might expect in court for being caught. He didn't ask to be preached at from the moral high ground.

Tommy Vercetti

well said

Sleipnir

IrishRover wrote:

Driving at 99 miles per hour is not in itself dangerous. In fact, driving at this speed on an uncongested dual carriageway or motorway with a straight dry surface and clear visibility sounds like one of the safest situations to do so in. It's all about whether the speed is appropriate for the conditions.

Driving 40mph over the speed limit i.e the maximum speed allowed given the conditions you state above (good visibility, dry road etc)
is reckless driving.

IrishRover wrote:

150+ mph can be perfectly safe on a three lane motorway with good visibility where everyone else is doing a similar speed and keeping an appropriate distance and observing correct lane changing procedures.

The point is that if it is safe to drive at 150mph when everyone else is doing a similar speed, keeping appropriate distance and observing correct lane changing procedures, it would probably be unsafe to drive at 250mph on that road, no?

The speed, i.e. the actual number itself doesn't matter.
Where speed matters is how it relates to all other conditions.

He was driving at least 39mph faster than other traffic on the road and that is reckless driving.

IrishRover

The speed, i.e. the actual number itself doesn't matter.
Where speed matters is how it relates to all other conditions.

Well that sounds like you agree with me there.

Driving 40mph over the speed limit i.e the maximum speed allowed given the conditions you state above (good visibility, dry road etc)
is reckless driving.

But that's just an arbitrary figure!

Re-reading what you said though, is it that you reckon some "road assessor" has come along and test driven the road and determined that 60mph is the fastest speed that can be safely achieved on the road (in the sense that car and driver are on the limit of traction and stopping distance with regard to visibility)?

Merrion

I'd imagine a blow out at 150mph+ on a road where everyone else was also doing 150mph+ would probably be a little way from "perfectly safe"....and getting tyres that are rated for 150mph+ is an expensive business.

seamus

IrishRover wrote:

Driving at 99 miles per hour is not in itself dangerous. In fact, driving at this speed on an uncongested dual carriageway or motorway with a straight dry surface and clear visibility sounds like one of the safest situations to do so in. It's all about whether the speed is appropriate for the conditions.

Indeed, except that usually speed limits exist for a reason. There is a reason why a dual carraigeway is a dual carriageway and not a motorway. It has junctions and traffic lights.

150+ mph can be perfectly safe on a three lane motorway with good visibility where everyone else is doing a similar speed and keeping an appropriate distance and observing correct lane changing procedures.

Anyone who is an experienced driver will know that this is self-evident.

Anyone who is an experienced driver will know that this is ridiculous. It's correct in theory, but not in practice. Our existing motorways are not designed to accomodate traffic at that speed. If there were no slip roads (or much longer slip roads), huge sweeping bends, no hills and walls surrounding the motorway, then yes, everyone could probably drive safely at 150mph+. But none of these things exist. One slight error at 150mph, and you've suddenely killed yourself and tens, maybe hundreds of cars behind you. Even at 70mph, people react poorly (even when driving properly) - you should know it well, one guy tips his brakes, and suddenly another 4 guys behind him panic, even though they've plenty of room, and upset everyone else's rhythym.
Theory is great, but it doesn't let you disregard reality.

The reality is that at 100mph on a dual carriageway, you will come upon junctions, other vehicles and hazards on the carraigeway, almost twice as fast as someone doing the limit. Concordently, your reaction time is almost halved. This makes one much more likely to panic at the sudden appearance of a hazard than someone who is going the limit, and the faster you're going, the more likely it is that panicking will result in disaster. Think about it logically - dog comes out in front of you at 25mph, you swerve hard, the car might spin, or you might end up on your roof. It will stop in a relatively short distance. The same thing happens at 60mph, you swerve hard, the car rolls numerous times, probably ending up in the ditch at the side of the road. You and anyone else who happens to get in the way of a ton of rolling metal.

I'm not in the "you are the devil incarnate" group, but I'm disgusted at his childish attempts to rationalise his crime and weasel his way out of it.

IrishRover

Merrion wrote:

I'd imagine a blow out at 150mph+ on a road where everyone else was also doing 150mph+ would probably be a little way from "perfectly safe"....and getting tyres that are rated for 150mph+ is an expensive business.

That's a bit of an aside though really isn't it? - especially the part about the cost of tyres.

Sleipnir

IrishRover wrote:

Re-reading what you said though, is it that you reckon some "road assessor" has come along and test driven the road and determined that 60mph is the fastest speed that can be safely achieved on the road (in the sense that car and driver are on the limit of traction and stopping distance with regard to visibility)?

No you're dead right, we should leave it up to the individual driver.

IrishRover

Seamus, believe it or not, I'm not actually saying "it is safe for every Irish driver to do 150mph on Irish roads".

I was trying to give an example of two extremes of speed - one where many people would think they are being safe because they are not breaking the law, and the other where they would automatically assume it is extremely unsafe because the limit is 70 on motorways here.

Yes of course I agree with you that we don't have the roads here to do 150mph on, but it also stands to reason that although our speed limit for main roads and dual carriageways is 60mph, it is going to be safe to go faster than that on some sections of our roads and it is not going to be safe to go nearly as fast as that on other sections (and conditions etc) even though you may be under the legal speed limit. It is a relatively arbitrary figure and it shocks me that many people here seem to think that if they stay under this limit that makes them a safe driver. That is what I meant by just because something is legal, doesn't make it right and vice-versa.

Sleipnir

okay, so should the speed limit change every kilometer as the road changes or should we allow drivers to decide for themselves?
I can't see any other option.