Dublin Bus Massacre, yes "MASSACRE"

Hagar

An article appeared in last night's Evening Herald regarding the accident on Wellington Quay. It appears that no action will be taken by the Gardaí against the driver of the bus as it has been 6 months since the accident. To quote the Garda spokesman "If no action has been taken so far it is unlikely to be taken in the future". Dublin Bus will not consider any disciplinary action until the driver has fully recovered from the trauma.

There was uproar because 10 people died on the roads last weekend. Talk about all sorts of commissions and action was bandied about.

Five people died on the path, not on the roads, they were pedestrians simply standing waiting on a bus. They expected to be brought safely to their destination by a skilled, careful professional driver. Instead they were mown down by him.

If I had parked my car illegally on the same spot it would have been clamped and I would have suffered heavy financial loss to atone for my offence. Massacre five human beings, dodge the bullet for six months and walk away free.

Is no action going to be taken? Justice my arse.

If anyone thinks this post is slanderous or libelous. Edit it away, just like Dublin Bus would. Then it never happened, did it?

ChipZilla

Yeah, "justice" sucks balls.

Just like the cops are more interested in protecting the rights of all the little scumbags out there, rather than innocent, everyday people. This driver has as good as got off scot-free. I'm sure the trauma he suffered will be a great consolation to the families of the dead... No criminal charges 'cos he's suffered enough already, and maybe a few weeks token suspension from the bus company.

Great, eh?

Praetorian

What do you think they should do to him?

It was a terrible accident. If the driver is like most other humans, he'll never get over what happened; I certainly wouldn't.

Personally I think he should be banned from driving for life on Irish roads. I don't think a jail sentence could be justified, unless any kind of intent could be proved or was admitted to.

Cuauhtemoc

I'm quite sure if the average Joe ran down and killed 5 people accidentally they would get more than a slap on the wrist.

Does accidental killing not carry some sort of sentence?

RE*AC*TOR

It was an ACCIDENT. I agree, his licence should be permanently revoked, but unless there was criminal intent then jail time would serve no good.
And 5 people killed in an accident does not constitute a massacre, I've never heard such rubbish in my life.

tba

Massacre is a bit of a misplaced description isnt it?

It make it sound like he had intentions to kill those people.

grumpytrousers

Praetorian wrote:

What do you think they should do to him?

It was a terrible accident. If the driver is like most other humans, he'll never get over what happened; I certainly wouldn't.

Personally I think he should be banned from driving for life on Irish roads. I don't think a jail sentence could be justified, unless any kind of intent could be proved or was admitted to.

That's the problem isn't it. What do we/you want from your justice system. Somebody who wilfully goes into a bank, shoots people and runs with the the money obviusly deserves all they get, should they be caught.

somebody who (presumably accidentally) is careless behind the wheel?...dunno - I mean, as Praetorian says, they'll have to live with that the rest of their lives.

Will locking up the driver up with hardened crims really ensure that this won't happen again? I think we can be sure that even without locking up the driver, he'll never do this again.

Will locking him up ensure that this never happens to any other driver? Not really. It'll make other bus drivers more aware in the short term and then, human error might happen again. Or it might not. We can't know.

Can the driver afford to personally pay compensation to the families of all the victims. Probably not.

I'm not standing up for the driver here, y'understand. Those who lost loved ones should expect justice...but my question is 'what form should this justice take?'

ChipZilla

Well Praetorian, I do happen to think he should have got a sentence. He was/is a professional driver who caused five deaths due to his careless driving... He got off lightly IMHO.

sliabh

Hagar, from your description:

Hagar wrote:

They expected to be brought safely to their destination by a skilled, careful professional driver. Instead they were mown down by him.

You are nearly claiming that the driver went out with murder in mind. You can be pretty sure that if you had named the driver, other than a quick post deletion by Victor you would be on the way to the high court.

But as to why not action was taken, were you there, did you take part in the Garda investigation?

If not, then you don't have all the facts (dodgy speculation from the likes of the Herald out to sell more papers is not even close to the truth) and are in no position to make a judgement on whether the Guards have or have not made the right call.

Overblown language like "massacre" is what I would expect from a sensationalist tabloid rather than a sober assessment of the facts. The Guards generally do a good job on this sort of thing. If they feel there is a case to be answered by someone can you tell me how is it in their interest not to push the case forward for the DPP?

Hagar

mas·sa·cre Pronunciation Key (ms-kr) n.
The act or an instance of killing a large number of humans indiscriminately and cruelly

Entry: massacre
Function: noun
Definition: killing
Synonyms: annihilation, assassination, bloodbath, bloodshed, butchery, carnage, decimation, extermination, genocide, internecion, murder, slaughter, slaying
Source: Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.0.5)
Copyright © 2004 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.



That's a close enough description for my money.
Sensational - no, Accurate - yes.

Hagar

sliabh wrote:

You can be pretty sure that if you had named the driver, other than a quick post deletion by Victor you would be on the way to the high court.

The driver has never been named by the Gardaí or Dublin Bus, so how can I have caused him an injustice.
He is anonymous and probably will remain so, now that's an injustice.

Hagar

sliabh wrote:

You can be pretty sure that if you had named the driver, other than a quick post deletion by Victor you would be on the way to the high court.

I am sure Victor is monitoring this thread and had I overstepped the bounds he would have done his duty.

The driver has never been named by the Gardaí or Dublin Bus, so how can I have caused him an injustice.
He is anonymous and probably will remain so, now that's an injustice.

dudara

mas·sa·cre ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ms-kr)
n.
The act or an instance of killing a large number of humans indiscriminately and cruelly.
The slaughter of a large number of animals.
Informal. A severe defeat, as in a sports event.

Go get a dictionary, not a thesaurus

John R

^ That's one way of getting your 1000th post.

BuffyBot

He was/is a professional driver who caused five deaths due to his careless driving

Was this ever proved? That it was just careless driving?

Victor_Meldrew

As an employee of Dublin Bus, I'm absolutely horrified at some of the posts on this thread. It is an absolute miracle that there haven't been more tragedies, like the Wellington Quay incident. That location was an accident waiting to happen. And let me emphasise the word "ACCIDENT". Unlike the ill-informed morons calling for the driver to be punished, I know the facts behind that crash and can safely say that it could just as easily have happened to me.

SantaHoe

Are the facts of this accident going to be made public? or have they already been?
I haven't heard anything concrete about this since the day it happened... all questions and no answers.
Has anything been put in place to stop this happening again? Something like crash barriers? Although I suspect you'd want something of 'Spire' proportions to stop the weight of a bus.
Anything to make their deaths a little less senseless.

John R

No report has been made public yet, Dublin Bus were ready to publish the report of their findings but were requested by the Gardai and the DPP to hold back until they had finished their enquiries.

Zaph0d

Victor_Meldrew wrote:

As an employee of Dublin Bus, I'm absolutely horrified at some of the posts on this thread. It is an absolute miracle that there haven't been more tragedies, like the Wellington Quay incident. That location was an accident waiting to happen. And let me emphasise the word "ACCIDENT". Unlike the ill-informed morons calling for the driver to be punished, I know the facts behind that crash and can safely say that it could just as easily have happened to me.

As a passenger, I agree with you. Driving a massive vehicle loaded with passengers through a crowded city is an inherently risky activity. A fatal accident can occur without it being the fault of the driver, for instance through mechanical failure or for medical reasons. The risks can never be reduced to zero.

Bus drivers carry the same responsibilities as airline pilots but get a fraction of the pay and a smaller fraction of the respect.

Hagar

Of course it was an accident, I never said it was anything else, but the driver is responsible for his actions wheher intentional or not just as you or I would be. It seems neither he nor anybody else will be brought to task for what happened.

Dublin Bus were holding off their own investigation until a report on a similar accident in the UK was published not at the request of the the Gardaí AFAIK. Although what bearing a report on a different acccident in a different country could have is beyond me. Unless they we waiting to see what arguments the other bus company used to wriggle off the hook. The fact thet the UK accident happened some time after the Irish one only makes the delay more suspicious.

Dudara, I published a clip from both a dictionary and a thesaurus. My post like yours became the victim of yesterday's tech issues.

sliabh

Hagar wrote:

Of course it was an accident, I never said it was anything else, but the driver is responsible for his actions wheher intentional or not just as you or I would be. It seems neither he nor anybody else will be brought to task for what happened.

If you are driving your car and you hit a nail on the road, your tyre bursts, you lose control and you crash into a bus load of kids, was it your fault, should you go to jail for their deaths?

Victor

Hagar wrote:

Dublin Bus were holding off their own investigation until a report on a similar accident in the UK was published

I presume the investigation went ahead immediately deferring only to the Garda. They did however say the report was held (at the request of the DPP).

John R

Hagar wrote:

Dublin Bus were holding off their own investigation until a report on a similar accident in the UK was published not at the request of the the Gardaí AFAIK. Although what bearing a report on a different acccident in a different country could have is beyond me. Unless they we waiting to see what arguments the other bus company used to wriggle off the hook. The fact thet the UK accident happened some time after the Irish one only makes the delay more suspicious.

As I already said Dublin Bus concluded their report some time ago, they did not make it public at the request of the DPP and the Gardai.

If you have any evidence to back up your inferences of a cover up then state them, if not then stop using a tragedy to spread bile.

Hobbes

I think the point is to look for someone to blame. I don't think that should be the driver.

I don't know who the driver is, but I do know if I had ran over that many people by accident, prison would be meaningless to me.

Hagar

There's more to it than simply looking for someone to blame. If we don't know what caused it our chances of preventing a similar occurance are lessened. My point is that the way Dublin Bus are dragging their heels it would make one suspect that there was some flaw in their standard operating practices that allowed the accident.

If the driver "did nothing wrong" and since we don't know who he is, maybe he's "doing nothing wrong" right now on another bus on the streets of Dublin. After all, would his union allow him to be taken off the buses if he "did nothing wrong" ?

LFCFan

I thought we knew what happened? The Bus was left in Gear and when the second driver sat into his seat he pushed on the accelorator and the bus lunged forward before he could get it under control????? Dublin Bus even said it was a common occurance for buses to be left in this state while waiting for the next driver. I think it's obvious how you solve this problem so it doesn't happen again. Switch the bloody bus off when you are getting out. Dublin Bus should take the blame on this one for letting this practice take place.

maxheadroom

Hagar wrote:

If the driver "did nothing wrong" and since we don't know who he is, maybe he's "doing nothing wrong" right now on another bus on the streets of Dublin. After all, would his union allow him to be taken off the buses if he "did nothing wrong" ?

And what if he actually did nothing wrong? Why should he be punished to satisfy your "bloodlust", for want of a better term?

You've said its not about looking for someone to balme, but your posts seem to indicate otherwise.

And, it was widely reported at the time that Dublin Bus were withholding the results of their inquiry after a request from the Gardai and the DPP. I don't see how that implies a cover-up by Dublin Bus.

ishmael whale

Victor_Meldrew wrote:

As an employee of Dublin Bus, I'm absolutely horrified at some of the posts on this thread. It is an absolute miracle that there haven't been more tragedies, like the Wellington Quay incident. That location was an accident waiting to happen. And let me emphasise the word "ACCIDENT". Unlike the ill-informed morons calling for the driver to be punished, I know the facts behind that crash and can safely say that it could just as easily have happened to me.

With respect, an appeal to ‘I have the facts’ without elaboration is of no value. Buses plowing into people for no obvious reason is an extremely rare event, so the ‘facts’ would have to be fairly earth shattering to alter the conclusion that a case needs to be answered. If there is no basis for a prosecution of the driver, or anyone else, there seems no obvious reason to not publish the report.

Hagar

LFCFan wrote:

I thought we knew what happened? The Bus was left in Gear and when the second driver sat into his seat he pushed on the accelorator and the bus lunged forward before he could get it under control?????

I must disagree here. If the bus had a manual gearbox it couldn't be left in gear without someone keeping the clutch pedal depressed. If the bus had an automatic gearbox and was left in drive it would "creep" forward without someone keeping the brake pedal depressed. I'm not a mechanic so I'm open to correction there. Its my understanding that it is an offence under the road traffic acts to leave a mechanically propelled vehicle parked unattended in a public place with its engine running. Common sense really. Surely to do so would at the very least be contributory negligence on the part of the driver.

Did the findings of the unpublished report not highlight this as a potential hazard and if so why is nothing being about it? Buses are still being left at terminii with their engines running. I saw one yesterday in Hawkins Street.

sliabh

The reality is that none of us know for sure what happened and so we are not in a position to make a judgement call. The relevent authorities (Dublin Bus and/or the Guards) need to publish their reports. Until then we are just speculating.

Hagar

I accept that. Although the report has yet to be published, its findings are known, at least in draft form, by Dublin Bus. Surely on that basis we should have seen some safety measures being implemented. There are no obvious changes in work practices.
I think there is an institutionalised mind set of keeping the public un-informed by people who are ultimately answerable to us, as the electorate.

BrianD

While I think the travelling public and relatives of those killed or injured must get answers to this tragedy in the form of a public report and the necessary corrective action be taken, I think that while the matter is still sub-judice it should not be discussed in the tone that it is here. There are allegations and suggestions being made that are unfair to the parties involved in the tragedy. It is unreasonale and unfair to refer to the incident as a massacre. Might I suggest that the moderator close this discussion until the facts are known?

Hagar

Me -
lifts carpet and sweeps
resumes place in flock
grazes
forgets
eyes glaze over

MrPudding

Hagar wrote:

I accept that. Although the report has yet to be published, its findings are known, at least in draft form, by Dublin Bus. Surely on that basis we should have seen some safety measures being implemented. There are no obvious changes in work practices.
I think there is an institutionalised mind set of keeping the public un-informed by people who are ultimately answerable to us, as the electorate.

I have noticed new signs (I think) above the driver. Can't remember the wording but it is about leaving the bus in gear, or rather not leaving the bus in gear. One of the DB workers might confirm the wording exactly (or someone more observant.)

I think the buses are all automatics are they not?

MrP

John R

Hagar wrote:

I must disagree here. If the bus had a manual gearbox it couldn't be left in gear without someone keeping the clutch pedal depressed. If the bus had an automatic gearbox and was left in drive it would "creep" forward without someone keeping the brake pedal depressed. I'm not a mechanic so I'm open to correction there. Its my understanding that it is an offence under the road traffic acts to leave a mechanically propelled vehicle parked unattended in a public place with its engine running. Common sense really. Surely to do so would at the very least be contributory negligence on the part of the driver.

This tells me that you know NOTHING about even the most basic operations of public service behicles and Dublin Bus.
If you did you would know that all Dublin Bus vehicles have automaic transmissions. You would also know why a bus can be started in a forward gear with the handbrake off and not move.

Hagar wrote:

I accept that. Although the report has yet to be published, its findings are known, at least in draft form, by Dublin Bus. Surely on that basis we should have seen some safety measures being implemented. There are no obvious changes in work practices.

Considering that you are completely ignorant of the most basic facts it is obvious YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT CAUSED THE ACCIDENT NOR DO YOU KNOW WHAT MEASURES HAVE OR HAVE NOT BEEN PUT IN PLACE SUBSEQUENTLY.


It has already been pointed out to you that Dublin Bus have not made public their findings because they were requested not to by the authorities. LINK

Your entire contribution to this thread has been to make unfounded accusations of a cover up along with poorly informed theories that don't hold up under the most casual scrutiny. You have provided no facts to up anything, every reply from you consists of more mud slinging.

If it were I or a company I am connected with that you were discussing in this manner I would by now be talking to a lawyer about a defamation action.

Victor

I'm uncomfortable with this thread. If it doesn't go anywhere meaningful soon, it's getting locked.

An article appeared in last night's Evening Herald regarding the accident on Wellington Quay. It appears that no action will be taken by the Gardaí against the driver of the bus as it has been 6 months since the accident. To quote the Garda spokesman "If no action has been taken so far it is unlikely to be taken in the future". Dublin Bus will not consider any disciplinary action until the driver has fully recovered from the trauma.

This would appear to indicate the driver is not working.

vector

Zaph0d wrote:

...Bus drivers carry the same responsibilities as airline pilots but get a fraction of the pay and a smaller fraction of the respect.

Nice phrase, I could imagine saying it myself, but really it is incorrect.
Both the risks and consequences are significantly smaller.

Zaph0d

vector wrote:

Both the risks and consequences are significantly smaller

Comparing accident risk rates between bus and plane transport is not easy.

Airline risk data needs to be averaged over a number of years to avoid skewing from very large crashes. Airplane risk is often considered to be independent of distance as most crashes occur around take-off & landing.

So which measure will you compare?...
A. average deaths per mile?
B. average deaths per passenger-mile ? (A/average occupancy)
C. average deaths per journey?
D. average deaths per passenger-journey?
E. average deaths per hour?
F. average deaths per passenger-hour?
G. average passenger deaths per pilot/driver year?
and lots more


If you think buses are low risk try: http://www.busplunge.org/ (don't look at this if you drive a bus or are at all squeamish)

RicardoSmith

Zaph0d wrote:

...
Bus drivers carry the same responsibilities as airline pilots but get a fraction of the pay and a smaller fraction of the respect.

If you believe that, would you be happy for your average bus driver to fly you through a storms, fog, a few thousand miles, at night, at 300 miles an hour, in a 100 ton aircraft loaded with explosive fuel, then land at a busy airport where the aircraft are landing, 3 mins apart.

Considering that most bus drivers can't manage to use their indicators, or if even if they do, its as they move not before it. Personally I consider bus drivers on a par with taxi drivers as some of the worst drivers on the road. Obviously theres some good ones. About 4 I think.

I thought I heard that the bus accident could have been the result of the bad habit of drivers leaving the bus in drive (not park) and their foot on the brake when parked. That said it was a tragic accident.

RicardoSmith

Zaph0d wrote:

...Airplane risk is often considered to be independent of distance as most crashes occur around take-off & landing.....

Its not the fall that kills you it the sudden stop...

Also diesel bus fuel is a lot less likely to burn you to death than a few tons of explosive jet fuel is in an accident. Also driving at 60mph is a lot less risky than 200mph+

sliabh

RicardoSmith wrote:

Considering that most bus drivers can't manage to use their indicators, or if even if they do, its as they move not before it. Personally I consider bus drivers on a par with taxi drivers as some of the worst drivers on the road. Obviously theres some good ones. About 4 I think.

One of the scariest things I ever saw on the Irish roads was when I was coming off the Portlaise by-pass heading south, and driving up onto the motorway (the wrong way) was a full bus eireann bus!

It beggars belief that a professional driver could make that sort of mistake.

RicardoSmith

John R wrote:

.....This tells me that you know NOTHING about even the most basic operations of public service behicles and Dublin Bus.
If you did you would know that all Dublin Bus vehicles have automaic transmissions. You would also know why a bus can be started in a forward gear with the handbrake off and not move...

Why would anyone who isn't a bus driver know that?
How come it doesn't move then?

John R

RicardoSmith wrote:

Why would anyone who isn't a bus driver know that?

My point was that someone who is stating as facts knowledge of actions taken that are directly related to bus driving operations should know.

RicardoSmith wrote:

How come it doesn't move then?

There is a safety feature on all DB buses and other air braked vehicles with automatic transmission that kills drive if the air pressure is low. This is to stop the vehicles being operated when there is not enough air pressure to operate the brakes properly. Usually a vehicle left off for some time will require the air pressure to be built up before it can be moved, this can only be done with the engine running. By revving the engine the compressor works more quickly. If a vehicle with low air pressure is started in drive with the handbrake off it will not move, if the accelerator is fully depressed it will still not move, until the air pressure reaches the cut-off level when drive is automatically re-engaged.

RicardoSmith

John R wrote:

My point was that someone who is stating as facts knowledge of actions taken that are directly related to bus driving operations should know.

There is a safety feature on all DB buses and other air braked vehicles with automatic transmission that kills drive if the air pressure is low. ...

Did he not say "if" and "open to correction?" Sounds like an opinion not fact.

How fast does the air pressure fall?

Victor_Meldrew

Personally I consider bus drivers on a par with taxi drivers as some of the worst drivers on the road. Obviously theres some good ones. About 4 I think.

With the greatest of respect, that's a complete load of bollocks. The vast majority of DB drivers are highly skilled (most of us have successfully completed advanced drivers courses) and vastly superior to the majority of road users. Certainly, there may be a few (i.e one or two) who shouldn't be allowed out onto the roads on their own, but I can with great confidence say that Dublin Bus employs drivers of the highest standard. I suggest you get your facts straight, RicardoSmith before doing an impression of an ignorant cunt.

RicardoSmith wrote:

Did he not say "if" and "open to correction?" Sounds like an opinion not fact.

How fast does the air pressure fall?

Air Pressure failure is extremely common on Dublin Buses, although more common on the R-type Volvo Olympians than the Low-Floor AV-type. Simply, if a bus is being driven through traffic (obviously on lowish revs), with the brakes being applied constantly, air-pressure will inevitably run short. The only way to increase air-pressure is to rev the engine (hence buses parked or in traffic, loudly revving the engine). Some of the more eagle-eared passengers will have noticed a very loud and piercing 'pinging' noise from the dashboard of many buses - particularily when parked. That's basically an alarm, which warns that air-pressure (amongst other things, including oil-pressure) may be extremely low. Often, the first thing I do when taking over a bus is rev the engine for a few seconds to build up enough air-pressure to close the doors and engage a forward gear.

maxheadroom

Victor_Meldrew wrote:

Some of the more eagle-eared passengers will have noticed a very loud and piercing 'pinging' noise from the dashboard of many buses - particularily when parked. That's basically an alarm, which warns that air-pressure (amongst other things, including oil-pressure) may be extremely low.

So that's what that sound is I thought it might have something to do with the kneeling suspension, for some reason.

RicardoSmith

Victor_Meldrew wrote:

With the greatest of respect, that's a complete load of bollocks. The vast majority of DB drivers are highly skilled (most of us have successfully completed advanced drivers courses) and vastly superior to the majority of road users. Certainly, there may be a few (i.e one or two) who shouldn't be allowed out onto the roads on their own, but I can with great confidence say that Dublin Bus employs drivers of the highest standard. I suggest you get your facts straight, RicardoSmith before doing an impression of an ignorant cunt..

Sorry you're confusing me with a bus driver...

You spin a great story. But it lacks credibility when you have to be abusive in making your point. However I can't agree with you. In over 20 years as a passenger, and a road user, I would have to say that rarely have I experienced anything of a high standard from dublin bus. That would include driving, timekeeping, service and even basic politeness. I could give you many examples, but I'll not waste my time. Dublin bus have wasted to much of mine already.

That said lately I have seen a general improvement in the service. That could be the influx of new drivers that I see. However the service for me is slower, more expensive and just as unreliable as it was 10-20 years ago. It continues to be the least attractive way to get from A to B on the vast majority of my journeys.

From the technical explanations given so far, there seems to be the possibility, that a bus, recently parked, would still have enough air pressure, to be fully operational? Yes/No?

Victor_Meldrew

RicardoSmith wrote:

Sorry you're confusing me with a bus driver...

You spin a great story. But it lacks credibility when you have to be abusive in making your point.

I wasn't being abusive. I said you were doing a good impersonation of an ignorant cunt, when in reality, for all I know, you could be a totally decent, reasonable person

That would include driving, timekeeping, service and even basic politeness.

Driving standards at Dublin Bus (and CIE Dublin City Services before 1987) have always been (with perhaps the very occasional exception) top-notch. That fact is reflected in the tiny number of serious accidents involving DB vehicles.

99% of buses leave their respective garages on time. Poor timekeeping is more often than not as a result of the attrocious traffic conditions in Dublin.

Basic politeness from drivers has in the past been a very serious issue (with ALL bus companies, internationally. Not only DB). The simple fact of the matter is that driving a bus is a high pressure job and until recently, bus drivers weren't given the slightest bit of customer handling training. Thankfully that is now changing (at a rapid rate) and the few examples of completely unmannerly drivers are gradually being pensioned off, thank God.

However the service for me is slower, more expensive and just as unreliable as it was 10-20 years ago. It continues to be the least attractive way to get from A to B on the vast majority of my journeys.

Slower (and unreliable) largely because of the ridiculous amount of traffic on the roads. More expensive as a result of higher insurance and fuel costs (not to mention the sickeningly low government subvention received by CIE).

From the technical explanations given so far, there seems to be the possibility, that a bus, recently parked, would still have enough air pressure, to be fully operational? Yes/No?

More often than not, a bus recently parked will have enough air pressure to be fully operational, without need for any revving. However, if a driver boards his bus and the 'pinging' alarm is sounding, he's bound to presume that it is as a result of a lack of air pressure...

So that's what that sound is I thought it might have something to do with the kneeling suspension, for some reason.

Strangely enough, the same alarm often comes on while the bus is lowering the wheelchair-ramp. The kneeling suspension is also operated through the hydraulic system, so it also causes the alarm to sound.

RicardoSmith

...impersonation of an ignorant ****.. is not a phrase of endearment.

I live at a terminus. The bus can be parked 15 mins before departure time, yet most leave 5-10mins early or late. Of the buses I get about 30% leave on time. That has nothing to do with traffic.

Who cares if they leave the garage on time? Thats a meaningless statistic. Do any passengers board at a garage???

The reason theres so few accidents (if thats true) is that most people know from experience to stay well clear of buses and taxi's as the're very erratic. Most people know not to trust them to signal. Every morning, I see at least one bus blocking a yellow square, and a junction, at least once on my route. They are consistently bad I'll conceed that.

Victor_Meldrew

RicardoSmith wrote:

...impersonation of an ignorant ****.. is not a phrase of endearment.

I live at a terminus. The bus can be parked 15 mins before departure time, yet most leave 5-10mins early or late. Of the buses I get about 30% leave on time. That has nothing to do with traffic.

Who cares if they leave the garage on time? Thats a meaningless statistic. Do any passengers board at a garage???

The reason theres so few accidents (if thats true) is that most people know from experience to stay well clear of buses and taxi's as the're very erratic. Most people know not to trust them to signal. Every morning, I see at least one bus blocking a yellow square, and a junction, at least once on my route. They are consistently bad I'll conceed that.

Behave like an ignorant cunt, and you'll get called one, sorry

I don't know what route you get, but I do know that if I was to leave my terminus either early or late, I'd (at best) receive a damn good bollocking from my controller.

As for leaving the garage on time - I depart the garage at the exact time as stated on my work sheet. As a result of traffic (are you denying that Dublin has a traffic problem???), I'm often delayed (not late, delayed ) arriving at my terminus. Not my fault though - although try telling that to the pig-ignorant cunts, waiting, who give me an ear-bashing.

Every morning, I see at least one Micra driver stalling at the lights, but I'm not about to suggest that everyone who drives a Nissan Micra is incapable of driving competantly. Every afternoon, I see ladies driving off-road vehicles, blocking the roads outside schools, but I'm not about to suggest that every lady, picking up her kids isn't capable of driving competantly. I'm presuming that you don't drive (why else would you put up with what you perceive as such an awful bus service?), so maybe you could wait until you're driving before passing observations about the standards of professional drivers on the roads?

RicardoSmith

Calling people and customers "pig-ignorant ****".

Being late is "delayed".

Yes other road users can be as bad as bus drivers. But they don't need a advanced drivers course to being them UP to that level.

Why presume, when you could READ the thread and see I said I was a Road user for 20+ years.

I made my comment in jest, but you're comments thus far are typical of the attitude you expect and usually get from bus drivers. The sooner its privatised the better so that the public will have some choice.