New PC for €3500?

Diabolus

Ok so i got a bit of money coming my way soon,
and i'm looking at building the ULTIMATE gaming machine.
Give the money to be roughly €3,500 what would you reccommend?

Personally i'm looking at an Alienware ALX Water cooled P4 3.8
With and ATI X8000 XT 256 MB PCI-Express GFX.
And a 17" LCD, 1 GIG DDR2, 74 SATA 10,000 RPM Drive,
DVDRW 16x Dual Layer. ETC.

What would you reccommend?
If there is better for less i'd greatly appreciate it.

grimloch

if you went and built it yourself youd get better bang for your buck IMO
as alienware are a bit dear

get an fx 53 cpu for that kind of money look here for example

you can get pretty much anything (within reason) for that kind of money

RuggieBear

Diabolus wrote:

Ok so i got a bit of money coming my way soon,
and i'm looking at building the ULTIMATE gaming machine.
Give the money to be roughly €3,500 what would you reccommend?

Personally i'm looking at an Alienware ALX Water cooled P4 3.8
With and ATI X8000 XT 256 MB PCI-Express GFX.
And a 17" LCD, 1 GIG DDR2, 74 SATA 10,000 RPM Drive,
DVDRW 16x Dual Layer. ETC.

What would you reccommend?
If there is better for less i'd greatly appreciate it.

Bastid!!!! I am so jealous!!!! I'd go top of the range A64 fx as well.

Diabolus

Ya but the FX chip boards that are out do not support PCI-Express.
Not that i can see...

I dont want to get a new machine without PCI-Express thats y i went for the Pentium 4 version.

RuggieBear

Diabolus wrote:

Ya but the FX chip boards that are out do not support PCI-Express.
Not that i can see...

True.

Ciaran500

Nforce 4 is meant to be out by Christmas. It will provide PCI-E on 64bit boards.



PCI-E will not give you any performance increase. It will just be more futre proof.

Diabolus

Ciaran500 wrote:

Nforce 4 is meant to be out by Christmas. It will provide PCI-E on 64bit boards.



PCI-E will not give you any performance increase. It will just be more futre proof.

Thats y i want it. The future is always a few months away.

tba

you could get two great machines for that price

jesus_thats_gre

If you have that money, why not get one of the SLI machines and get two 6800 Ultras? This would make it the ultimate gaming machine!!!

Ciaran500

Abit AA8 3RD Eye (LGA775) Motherboard (MB-054-AB)
£107.50 £107.50
Intel Pentium 4 570 "LGA775 Prescott" 3.8GHz (800FSB) with HT Technology - Retail (CP-072-IN)
£399.95 £399.95
GeIL 1GB (2x512MB) PC5300 667MHz Value DDR2 Dual Channel Kit (GX21GB5300DC) (MY-030-GL)
£235.00 £235.00
Pioneer DVR-107 8x DVD±RW (Black) ReWriter - OEM (CD-019-PO)
£43.70 £43.70
Sapphire ATI Radeon X800 XT 256MB DDR3 VIVO TV-Out/DVI (PCI-Express) - Retail (GX-079-SP)
£284.95 £284.95
Western Digital Raptor 74GB 10,000RPM SATA 8MB Cache - OEM (HD-015-WD)
£114.95 £114.95
Western Digital Caviar Special Edition 250GB 2500JD SATA 8MB Cache - OEM (HD-010-WD)
£108.95 £108.95
Hyundai ImageQuest L90D 19" TFT Monitor (MO-016-HY)
£347.20 £347.20
Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS 7.1 THX - Retail (SC-017-CL)
£59.95 £59.95
Subtotal £1,702.15
Shipping (Parcelforce Euro 48) £22.00
VAT £301.73
Total £2,025.88


Thats about €3,000 excluding case, psu, keyboard, mouse and speakers.


EDIT: It would cost about €1,100 to get 2 6800 Ultra's and there are no SLI motherboards out at the moment.

magick

like the first reply said, i think making the pc (if u know how to do it ) is much better and more rewaring personally.

Diabolus

Ciaran where did you get that price from?

Also i have built all my machines... But that PC is €3000.
thats 400 short of a watercooled alienware with the same things in it.
I get a guarantee and 3 yr support. And a fully optimised machine.
Sounds worth it to me.

Ciaran500

There www.overclockers.co.uk prices. My one has a 19" TFT, a sound card, a 74gb Raptor and 250gb HDD and probably a better mobo (I dunno what mobo comes with the alienware). with it

Diabolus

Ya the Alienware comes with the 19" LCD.
It also has a raptor 74gig 10,00 RPM drive.
the board has PCI-Ex and has 1 gig of DUAL DDR2.
Its the ALX PC if you want to check it out yourself.

Its 3,500.

Ciaran500

I can't find it on the website, got any links?

airetam_storm

dont forget dual raptors raid0, vgood performance boost

Also if the mobo supports u can have 4 raptors in raid0 and raid1 at the same time!!!

Ciaran500

I just found the ALX. Its only on alienware.com. Do they ship to ireland?

Diabolus

http://www.alienware.com/Configurator_Pages/area-51_alx.aspx?SysCode=PC-AREA51ALX-D&SubCode=SKU-DEFAULT

Its also 4 GHZ!

**I was in contact with Alienware Ireland and they informed me that they launch the ALX over here in November. Thats when i will have the money***

airetam_storm

4ghz or fx-53? which would b better 4 games?
And what gfx comes with that?

Ciaran500

Its alot cheaper to ge tthe 4.0ghz version. But I'm not sure how it compares to the 2mb cache on the 3.8ghz.



The cheapest I could get an alienware pc that was the close to the spec I suggested was €3,863 excluding speakers, keyboard and mouse.

Ciaran500

Thats a "Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor w/ HT Technology @ 4.0GHz with 1MB Cache" and a X800 XT 256mb

Diabolus

Its a 4GHZ p4 1MB cache.

The GFX is a X800 XT 256 DDR3 PCI-Express.
Nothing better.

Rofl beat me to it.

CombatCow

The alienware ALX wont be available in europe until next year, '' so alienware said at E3 '' my pc in my sig cost over 3 grand,but you could get a bit better hardware now with recent price drops.


CC

Azza

Wonder how many duron based PC you could build for €3500.

grimloch

Azza wrote:

Wonder how many duron based PC you could build for €3500.

i reckon about 7

if you have that sort of money it doesnt matter what you buy because you wont get a bad machine for that money

Diabolus

The real problem is trying to sell my old machine!

Superman

well I got cash last summer and i basically went out and bought the exact same stuff as in an alienware machine for good deal less, plus you learn a load of stuff while you build a system.
and what i hate is all this " part X is meant to be out by Christmas" stuff, forget all that, computers depreciate like fish and are always changing and improving anyway.

So just make sure what you buy at the time is a good VALUE part and has all the things you need!
good luck

Celt

airetam_storm wrote:

dont forget dual raptors raid0, vgood performance boost

Also if the mobo supports u can have 4 raptors in raid0 and raid1 at the same time!!!

There is little to no performance benefit from raptors in a raid 0 setup, dont believe me, anandtech have a nice article on it.

jesus_thats_gre

They look to be charging about 400 quid so they overclock it for you.. Waste of money to be honest.. If you are waiting to Nov/Dec to pick up your machine, I would definetly hold off on committing to Alienware.



Holy ****, I just had a look at their website.. You deserve to be castrated for even thinking of giving that shower so much money.. They are a fooking disgrace and really make me wonder why I am not building a selling PCs. Look at the crap they sell it to ya with:




-Alienware® ALX System Performance-Enhancement
-Alienware® ALX Graphics Performance-Enhancement
-AlienAdrenaline: Video Performance Optimizer
-AlienIce™ 2.0 Video Cooling System

In other words, ATI tool and a bios. That is unless they have discovered something that no one else has??



Lets keep it real now will we:

jesus_thats_gre

2 X Western Digital Raptor 74GB 10,000RPM SATA 8MB Cache - OEM (HD-015-WD)£229.90

Intel Pentium 4 560 "LGA775 Prescott" 3.6GHz (800FSB) with HT Technology - Retail (CP-060-IN)£265.00

Asus P5GDC-V Deluxe 915G (LGA775) Motherboard (MB-074-AS)£106.95
GeIL 1GB (2x512MB) PC4300 533MHz Value DDR2 Dual Channel Kit (GX21GB4300DC) (MY-031-GL)£205.00
NEC ND3500 16x DVD±RW Dual Layer ReWriter (Black) - OEM (CD-021-NE)£52.60
Sapphire ATI Radeon X800 XT 256MB DDR3 VIVO TV-Out/DVI (PCI-Express) - Retail (GX-079-SP)£284.95
Zalman CNPS7000B-Cu Ultra-Quiet CPU Cooler - Retail (HS-007-ZA)£29.95

Viewsonic VP191S Pro Series 19" TFT Monitor - Silver (MO-003-VS)£403.00

Coolermaster Cavalier 3 - Silver (No PSU) (CA-055-CM)£62.00

Antec NeoPower 480W PSU (CA-022-AN)£79.95

Vantec TD9238H Tornado 92mm fan - Retail (FG-001-VT)£11.00

Logitech Z-680 THX® Certified 5.1 450 Watts Speakers - Retail (SP-006-LG)£199.00
Creative Sound Blaster Audigy ZS Platinum Pro 7.1 - Retail (SC-018-CL)£134.50
Logitech Cordless Desktop MX - Retail (KB-007-LG)£62.95

Subtotal£2,126.75
VAT£372.19
Total£2,498.94



So the above PC was picked on overclockers.co.uk by basically selecting the most expensive component in each category that basically matched Alienwares specs.. That machine would cost 3,500 euro.

If you spent a bit of time researching everything, you would realise that half of what is there could possibly be overclocked to beyond what the Alienware offers.

To match the Alienware system, you could by stock components that are rated lower than the Alienware and if you choose carefully, you can be pretty certain they will match the Alienware for nearly half the price in some situations.,.

Example is the processor. It is perfectly concievable that you can spend decent money on water cooling and buy a 3.2/3.4 processor and overclock it to 4.0.

You do not need two 74 Gig raptors. Two 37 gig ones will do the job for the OS. Then buy whatever drives you want for basic storage like games. YOU WILL NOT KNOW ANY DIFFERENCE.

Consider getting a decent 6880 GT and overclock it so that it is as good as for x800 XT for considerably less.

You basically know where I am going with this. If you have a little knowledge on your side, you know better that to buy Alienware. If you have more money than sense forever, then who gives a ****.

As it stands, you might as well bend over and just let a few boys run a train on your ass. You do know what its like to feel violated dont you?


/wear sun screen.

the raven

quote
you might as well bend over and just let a few boys run a train on your ass. You do know what its like to feel violated dont you?

If you have more money than sense forever, then who gives a ****.

You deserve to be castrated for even thinking of giving that shower so much money..

i'm sure there's more...
isn't abuse wonderful diablous??

BloodBath

Just a few tips.

Wait for the 3.73 ghz prescotts with 1066mhz fsb and 2mb of cache due in Q4.

You will need one of these to take advantage of high speed ddr2. Get 1gb of the fastest RAM available with this.

Get 2 6800gt's or 2 6800ultras for SLI.

At least a 560w psu from a good brand like antec. I'd get higher if you can especially for the dual 6800's.

Get a high end water cooling kit and a good case that it will fit into nicely like a lian li one.

Overclock the **** out of the processor. Your looking at about 4.2ghz processor speed and 650mhz ram speed.

This will **** on any other processor on the market when overclocked and combined with high speed ram. It's about the only processor that can take advantage of high speed ddr2.

Don't bother getting 2 raptors. They are a waste of money. Get two 7200rpm 200gig drives and raid them. This will work out a lot cheaper and will perform very close to two raptors raided.

It's worth the wait and will fit into your massive budget. Your looking at having one of the best if not the best machine in the country if you follow that advise.


BloodBath

Venom

Celt wrote:

There is little to no performance benefit from raptors in a raid 0 setup, dont believe me, anandtech have a nice article on it.

2 Raptors in a Raid 0 setup will make a very noticable difference over 2 7200 drives in same setup. anandtech is almost as bad as toms hardware as a review site.


As for the original poster you are out of your tiny mind even thinking of spending that much money with ANY pre built company. Buying the parts yourself will give you not only a far better and more stable pc but also save a ton of cash that you can use to buy the very best items to make your dream rig.

Diabolus

Thanks for all the advice and abuse.

Yes i ahve a lot of money and im willing to spend it on whatever is the best
by X-Mas. I honestly dont give a crap if Alienware charge 400 extra so that i
can have a fully watercoooled pc with a 3 yr guarantee.

I have built all my machines in the past as i have not had enough money to
afford to buy a gaming machine. I have always run into incompatabilities with
my hardware which ended up costing me a lot of money. I also tried to install
a waterchill watercooling kit and found it frustrating.

I guess i need a serious case modder to say look buy all this and we do this
and you pick the case and your sorted. Watercooling freaks me out tbh but i
know its worht it.

The advice on waiting for the 3.7 @1000 FSB sounds like a good wait.
That and the Dual PCI-Ex cards. But will i see a slight difference with 2 as
against one. Also im going for a 74 gig 10,000 RPM drive to solve that
argument. I have a server here that has 800+ Gigs of HD space in it so i dont
need space on a gaming machine for anything other than games.

So I'll probably be back by November asking again the same question to which
some of you will help me decide and some of you willl tell me to bend over and
shove the money up my ass. Thanks in advance.

Diab

Ciaran500

Why not go vapochil for that kind of money?

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/VapoChill_Systems.html

BloodBath

2 Raptors in a Raid 0 setup will make a very noticable difference over 2 7200 drives in same setup.

Eh Venom I beg to differ. Azza has 2 raptors raided and scores 2500 in pc marks HD test. I score 2250. This backs up any benchmarks i've seen.

One raptor will kick one 7200 but when they are raided there is not much difference. Really not worth double the money and half the space for a tiny tiny performance increase.

Diablos you should get at least two 120gig drives. Most new games are 3-5gigs. You would be surprised how quickly they can fill.

Running the dual cards will give you roughly a 70% performance increase but i've seen figures as hgh as 90%. One card renders the top of the screen, the other card renders the bottom. You won't get this in your alienware as standard for 3500.


BloodBath

CombatCow

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

They look to be charging about 400 quid so they overclock it for you.. Waste of money to be honest.. If you are waiting to Nov/Dec to pick up your machine, I would definetly hold off on committing to Alienware.



Holy ****, I just had a look at their website.. You deserve to be castrated for even thinking of giving that shower so much money.. They are a fooking disgrace and really make me wonder why I am not building a selling PCs. Look at the crap they sell it to ya with:




-Alienware® ALX System Performance-Enhancement
-Alienware® ALX Graphics Performance-Enhancement
-AlienAdrenaline: Video Performance Optimizer
-AlienIce™ 2.0 Video Cooling System

In other words, ATI tool and a bios. That is unless they have discovered something that no one else has??



Lets keep it real now will we:

-Alienware® ALX System Performance-Enhancement

I think this refers to the watercooling of the cpu

-Alienware® ALX Graphics Performance-Enhancement

Same with watercooling to the gfx card

-AlienAdrenaline: Video Performance Optimizer

Maybe optimised gfx drivers by them

-AlienIce™ 2.0 Video Cooling System

The general cooling of the case

CC

Diabolus

CombatCow wrote:

-Alienware® ALX System Performance-Enhancement

I think this refers to the watercooling of the cpu

-Alienware® ALX Graphics Performance-Enhancement

Same with watercooling to the gfx card

-AlienAdrenaline: Video Performance Optimizer

Maybe optimised gfx drivers by them

-AlienIce™ 2.0 Video Cooling System

The general cooling of the case

CC

I so didnt want to have to explain that to him.
But your spot on about all of them.
:P

Ciaran500

You still interested in alienware or did we change your mind yet?

jesus_thats_gre

Diabolus wrote:

I so didnt want to have to explain that to him.
But your spot on about all of them.
:P

Yes so they have managed to describe "watercooling" as:

-Alienware® ALX System Performance-Enhancement
-Alienware® ALX Graphics Performance-Enhancement
-AlienAdrenaline: Video Performance Optimizer
-AlienIce? 2.0 Video Cooling Syst

The reason for descriptions like this are solely to give the impression you are getting something better than anywhere else.. Its bull**** marketing at its best and fair played to anyone who thinks otherwise.

jesus_thats_gre

CombatCow wrote:

-Alienware® ALX System Performance-Enhancement

I think this refers to the watercooling of the cpu

-Alienware® ALX Graphics Performance-Enhancement

Same with watercooling to the gfx card

-AlienAdrenaline: Video Performance Optimizer

Maybe optimised gfx drivers by them

-AlienIce? 2.0 Video Cooling System

The general cooling of the case

CC

So they use watercooling and OMEGA drivers?

CombatCow

yeah pretty much....

Alienware have above average customer support so i hear....I still wouldent buy one tho.

CC

Diabolus

Marketing is marketing.
If it sounds better then it is.
If its an Alienware feature then exploit it.
Cant argue with it. Just gotta know what lies behind it.

And to Ciaran you all have described some interesting things to come in PC's
things that i will go for. If Alienware dont do them then they dont do the best.
Thats what im going for "The Best". Money means jack **** in this.
So please stop saying u can get this and this for this much less.
I want the best. If u suggest a better pc than alienware then ill go with it.

C'est tres simpile....

Super Glue

my 2 cents would be to buy a moderate system now
and up grade it later on cause at the end of the day what would buy now for 3000 will be 1500 in 1 year - cause PC's DONT hold there value

Ciaran500

I think what most people are trying to get across is that for €3500 you could get a better self build pc compared to a €3500 Alienware.


This was and will be always like this becuase you have to pay extra for things like "Alienware® ALX Graphics Performance-Enhancement" that you can do for free if you have the knowledge.

OfflerCrocGod

Alienware is for fools.

airetam_storm

Super Glue got the right idea

Why not a 1500$ system now and another in over a year?
Ud have a better system 4 longer

CombatCow

whats the point of buying a mediocre system now,i guess if you can live without having your games at the top spec then go for it...but if you buy a top notch cpu,gfx and memory now, the chances are you will only need to upgrade your gfx card in 2+ years.*taking into account you get a pci-e mobo now*


CC

the raven

damn this is a good read...
sorry about not contributing any "advice" but i don't like the idea of (how to put it nicely?) it being shoved in my face like a pile of fresh dog poo.

fair play diablous, i hope it'll be as class as you expect, whatever road you take.

BloodBath

If you got the system I suggested with the sli 6800's you could play games on full detail at high res with AA and AF for at least two years. The system would be good for gaming for 4 years.


BloodBath

OfflerCrocGod

BloodBath wrote:

If you got the system I suggested with the sli 6800's you could play games on full detail at high res with AA and AF for at least two years. The system would be good for gaming for 4 years.

Hear Hear!! The only problem with that is that the parts are not *yet* out BUT.....they should be soon enough ( 3 months - but the wait would be worth it IMHO ).