Buying a car, heres my list of options have i missed something obvious

Cyrus

My girlfriend and I are looking into buying a car in Jan, im 24 full licence for 5 yrs but ive never had my own policy, ive been a named driver on my mums car for that period.

My girlfriend is 24 as well, as of yet she hasnt attempted her test shes also been a named driver for a similar time

Ive been looking at golf sized cards circa 1.4-1.6l, not looking for a smaller car or smaller engine tbh i just wouldnt be comfortable driving something slower or smaller, im used to a 1.7l ford puma so im trying to ease the blow

Heres what ive taken from cbg:

Make Model Engine Year Price

Seat Leon 1400cc 2000 9000
Seat Leon 1600cc 2000 10000
Alfa 147 1600cc 2001 14500
Alfa 156 1600cc 2000 10000
Alfa 156 1600cc 2001 11950
Ford Focus 1400cc 1999-00 9,500-10,500
Peugeot 307 1400cc 2001 12000
VW Golf 1400cc 2000 11500
VW Bora 1400cc 2000 10000
Audi A3 1600cc 1997 9000


Am i missing anything, what looks best value to any of ye, ins quotes for all the above are fairly similar, circa 5k for the two of us

Kaskade

From that list I would go with the ford focus. I hate european cars and I dont see one Jap car on your list. What about mazda 323(f), nissan almera (new shape), new shape civic...

Would love a 147 cos they are really nippy and handly well but they are just too unreliable and I would hate to have spent that much money on a car and than it to break down.

Cyrus

love a 147 myself infact that or the leon would be my choice unless i can find a nice focus, decent 3 door one with colour coded bumpers and alloys etc

323 f not my thing, i dont like mazdas tbh drove one for a while years ago and didnt like its 'feel'

Almera really really hate them again a personal thing

Civic not taken with the mini people carrier look or the gearstick position but tbh i never thought about it must take a look

Kaskade

I think the civic saloon is way nicer than the hatch.

HashSlinging

im selling a 01 1.6 leon at the moment for 10k... its in the evening herald under FIAT for some reason... :rolleyes:

needs to go !!

Kaskade

why did Seat not take a trade in off you if you just bought a new Cupra???

Funny I know a fella who did the exact same thing, bought an ibiza cupra and then couldn't sell his old ibiza!!

Gmodified

alfa is nice but unreliable.

focus is ok car but has to be cheaper then 9500 which wil be good value for money.

audi is overpriced and vw's come with f@ck all equipment so look for better spec model

Is1ldur

Can all those who posted that Alfa Romeo's are unreliable please tell me their own personal experience of this, or is it just 'I heard it was true so it must be'.
I admit Alfa did and still does have a bad reputation, however much of this is due to cars produced during the late 80's early 90's. They really have come on in recent years. Everyone has heard a bad story about Alfa's, but if you ask around you will hear similar stories about other marques.
One thing if you are considering an Alfa, service costs can be high, and if you are buying one a few years old, be sure to check if it is due a timing belt anytime soon, as it can cost up to EUR850 from a main dealer.
BTW, timing belt should be done before 70,000 miles, and preferably, as mine was, in and around 34-40,000 mile mark.

Sleipnir

Chap in my office in the U.K. had a 156 and the engine had to be replaced 3 times in one year.
Then they gave him a new car.

My friend bought a brand new alfa at the beginning of 03 and in that year it spent a total time of 3 months back in the dealerships garage.

Where my GF works, when benefit-in-kind tax came in and people starting handing back their cars they couldn't shift the Alfas. One chaps dad owns a garage in the north and wouldn't buy them because he'd have to give a warranty on them and he said
"they'd break his heart"

So no, they are not reliable generally.

I've owned 3 honda's and nothing has broken on any one of them. Ever.

Tommy Vercetti

If it's just the two of you then get this
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=156246

if you occasionally need space for 4 get this
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=146590

if you're gonna moan about insurance and running costs, then get this!
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=144523

Cyrus

Mx-5 is nice and theres some good ones in the buy and sell still rather a bigger car

never get ins on the integra

and ill never never never drive a micra

Gmodified

Is1ldur wrote:

I admit Alfa did and still does have a bad reputation, however much of this is due to cars produced during the late 80's early 90's. They really have come on in recent years. Everyone has heard a bad story about Alfa's, but if you ask around you will hear similar stories about other marques.
One thing if you are considering an Alfa, service costs can be high, and if you are buying one a few years old, be sure to check if it is due a timing belt anytime soon, as it can cost up to EUR850 from a main dealer.
BTW, timing belt should be done before 70,000 miles, and preferably, as mine was, in and around 34-40,000 mile mark.

Well, 80's car were much better maybe rusty but mechanically better.
156 is great looking car, with high reliability concerns .Variator reliability is very bad in pre 00 models so is front wishbone suspension (dealer managed to get another recall of 03 cars for "LOOSENING OF FRONT SUSPENSION" for certain models). In period of last 3 months i have seen quite few ads in buyandsell of people(including my friend):

-looking for 156 engine
-people selling perfect 97-00 156 without the engines

It's propably ok when you buy brand new alfa and sell it within 3 years. Also recomended oil change for this car is 10000 if you want to see it running for a bit longer. I wouldn't buy it used alfa.

Is1ldur wrote:

............ but if you ask around you will hear similar stories about other marques.
...................

well,i didn't hear anything about jap cars, maybe only about nissan with recent recall and older micras with noisy timing chains/ and failing mass sensors

Kaskade

Check out what owners think of their 147s yourself here:

http://www.carsurvey.org/othermodel_Alfa+Romeo_147.html

alias no.9

Sleipnir wrote:

Chap in my office in the U.K. had a 156 and the engine had to be replaced 3 times in one year.
Then they gave him a new car.

Not meaning to sound smart or anything but you'd have to question the driver in this case, statistically speaking, even if 30% of all engines were failing within the space of a year, the probability of a sample population of 3 engines all failing within one year is virtually nil.

Seth Brundle

Tommy Vercetti wrote:

If it's just the two of you then get this
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=156246

Don't you need to be a hairdresser to drive one of these?

Tommy Vercetti wrote:

if you occasionally need space for 4 get this
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=146590

Can't fault it!

Tommy Vercetti wrote:

if you're gonna moan about insurance and running costs, then get this!
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=144523

LOL
The owner attempted to make it sporty looking by sticking them alloys on it but tbh, it still is one ugly MF of a car

Sleipnir

alias no.9 wrote:

Sleipnir wrote:

Chap in my office in the U.K. had a 156 and the engine had to be replaced 3 times in one year.
Then they gave him a new car.

Not meaning to sound smart or anything but you'd have to question the driver in this case, statistically speaking, even if 30% of all engines were failing within the space of a year, the probability of a sample population of 3 engines all failing within one year is virtually nil.

Well, I would imagine the garage have to means to test max revs, milage and wouldn't be too keen to give out free cars if they honestly didn't know that it wasn't the drivers own fault.

alias no.9

Gmodified wrote:

well,i didn't hear anything about jap cars, maybe only about nissan with recent recall and older micras with noisy timing chains/ and failing mass sensors

Ever heard of mitsubishi? Did you know that they've been found guilty of falsifying customer complaint data for years? There is a certain 'cannot fail' mindset in japanese (and other oriental) cultures that most of the time motivates them to be the best but sometimes leads to deliberately covering up faults.

Sleipnir

Tommy Vercetti wrote:

If it's just the two of you then get this
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=156246

That is a woman's "sports" car.

Kaskade

Sleipnir wrote:

That is a woman's "sports" car.

I have to agree

Tommy Vercetti

bollocks it's a woman's car, MGF's and MR2's are, but an MX5 is all about the driving, try one and see.

unkel

Tommy Vercetti wrote:

bollocks it's a woman's car

It is but

Tommy Vercetti wrote:

but an MX5 is all about the driving, try one and see.

Fully agree. I wouldn't mind driving it now and then and couldn't give a sh1te if people think I'm a gay hairdresser (tautology?)

unkel

This is just about perfect for you Cyrus

And, you can overclock it as well

John R

alias no.9 wrote:

Ever heard of mitsubishi? Did you know that they've been found guilty of falsifying customer complaint data for years? There is a certain 'cannot fail' mindset in japanese (and other oriental) cultures that most of the time motivates them to be the best but sometimes leads to deliberately covering up faults.

That does not mean they are less reliable than alfas though.

In every reliability survey I have seen Japanese cars (including Mitsubishis) dominate the top of the charts. Alfas are never far from the bottom along with Ford (older models, they have improved recently), most French cars, and Fiat.

unkel

John R wrote:

That does not mean they are less reliable than alfas though

You're right, it doesn't. Alfas are less reliable. If it was my choice though between a €12k Golf and a €10k Alfa, I'd put the €2k on a savings account for contingencies and be a very happy driver with a smile on my face, driving a real car

Tommy Vercetti

unkel wrote:

Fully agree. I wouldn't mind driving it now and then and couldn't give a sh1te if people think I'm a gay hairdresser

And that's why I have one as a second car
I'm smiling every time I get out of it.

alias no.9

John R wrote:

That does not mean they are less reliable than alfas though.

In every reliability survey I have seen Japanese cars (including Mitsubishis) dominate the top of the charts. Alfas are never far from the bottom along with Ford (older models, they have improved recently), most French cars, and Fiat.

I never said that they were, just that sweeping generalisations can jump up and bite you. A friend of mine bought a second hand honda civic thinking it would be reliable but failed to check the car and it's history properly and ended up with the cam belt failing a few months later. The lesson here is that every second hand car has a history, and that history is always more important than the badge on the bonnet. Oh and speaking of reliability surveys, I can't remember which company it was, but it was one of the warrenty companies in the UK who published repair costs as well as reliability data and Fiat, on your list of unreliable, had the lowest warrenty claim costs, so you see it's everything in perspective.

Sleipnir

Well cam-belts need to be replaced on every car. That's not a reliability issue, it's your mates own error.
If I bought a 10 year old civic with FSH and a 10 year old Alfa with the same, the Alfa would break down first. That's the difference when it comes to reliability.

Fiats are unreliable but spare parts are cheap as chips which is why warranty claims are low-cost.

HashSlinging

Kaskade wrote:

why did Seat not take a trade in off you if you just bought a new Cupra???

Funny I know a fella who did the exact same thing, bought an ibiza cupra and then couldn't sell his old ibiza!!

Its going today, put off collecting the new one for a week to try and sell it. no luck though. :rolleyes:

Gmodified

alias no.9 wrote:

............ A friend of mine bought a second hand honda civic thinking it would be reliable but failed to check the car and it's history properly and ended up with the cam belt failing a few months later. ..............

I always change the timing belt after buying the car unless car has dealer service history. some people have no problems writing few numbers on the engine using tip-ex.

my civic had ´nearly 168k miles on the clock and got there without problems and it took some abuse . great car

Alfa is far away from Honda when comes to reliability, it's more like different dimension. On one end you have little people which started car manufacturing using motorbike engines and on the other end, people which design stylish cars with personality

then get drunk and put the mechanics using 4 egg epoxy pasta.


sloppy engineering and poor quality control

alias no.9

Gmodified wrote:

I always change the timing belt after buying the car unless car has dealer service history. some people have no problems writing few numbers on the engine using tip-ex.

my civic had ´nearly 168k miles on the clock and got there without problems and it took some abuse . great car


sloppy engineering and poor quality control

I didn't say it was a reliability thing, it was the fact that he looked at the badge ahead of the history and he got burned because he looked at the badge insteads of the history.

168k is hardly astronomical mileage for a civic. My dad had a fiat uno that did 250k, mind you it was an 1984 model and had to be treated for rust under warrenty.

Kaskade

alias no.9 wrote:

I never said that they were, just that sweeping generalisations can jump up and bite you. A friend of mine bought a second hand honda civic thinking it would be reliable but failed to check the car and it's history properly and ended up with the cam belt failing a few months later.

That is the first time I have ever heard of a cam belt going in a civic. I had a civic with 130k miles on it, sold it a year ago and I still see it around. Brilliant cars.

unkel wrote:

You're right, it doesn't. Alfas are less reliable. If it was my choice though between a €12k Golf and a €10k Alfa, I'd put the €2k on a savings account for contingencies and be a very happy driver with a smile on my face, driving a real car

But why would anyone ever want a golf anyway - (I am a german car hater if anyone doesn't know yet)

German cars are now starting to move down to the bottom half of the reliability table, VW, Merc and Opel. They are over priced, over weight boring cars.

alias no.9

Sleipnir wrote:

Fiats are unreliable but spare parts are cheap as chips which is why warranty claims are low-cost.

My last car was a fiat bravo, I bought it with 40k on the clock and put another 40k on it in 2 years before selling it. The clutch bearing went at 75k, hardly unusual for any petrol car and a suspension bushing need to be done for the NCT apart from that all was needed in that time was oil, filters, plugs, tyres and breaks. Hardly unreliable by any streatch of the imagination. My father is on his 3rd punto after 2 unos and a panda since, one uno had 250k on the clock and the second 180k when he got rid of them. Granted the first uno had rust problems fixed under warrenty but apart from that the only mechanical problem was a head gasket failure on the first punto, again a warrenty job. This was hardly unreliable for covering approximately 600k miles on his part.

That's my own first hand experience with fiat's, what's yours?

Oh and yes, parts and service are cheap, the new clutch & minor service cost e300 at a main dealer.

alias no.9

Kaskade wrote:

That is the first time I have ever heard of a cam belt going in a civic. I had a civic with 130k miles on it, sold it a year ago and I still see it around. Brilliant cars.

I was as surprised as you. But it just proves that regardless of a car or manufacturers reputation, if you don't check it out properly, you can get burned.

Sleipnir

When I was in my dad's Fiat Ritmo when it burst into flames outside the Spanish embassy nearly causing an international incident as the fella guarding the embassy though ETA were attacking when a flaming car mounted the pavement and hit the wall.. He had to sit down on the kerb for a bit, poor fella.The Fire Brigade had a good laugh at him.
It had smelled of petrol in the cabin just after a service.

When, every morning after it rained, the footwells behind the passenger seats of my brother's Fiat Punto were filled with water and you had to step over them, use the sponges provided to clear them and then squeeze it out the window as we drove.
That was until the footwells gave way, then you had to be careful you didnt get your foot caught as you went over a speedbump.

Good enough?

Gmodified

i don't think service history will help 70k alfa which could be really dead by 100k.
FSH helps ok but not crusial for some cars. you just have to know what to look for when buying



german cars have some issues too, but i would buy an AUDI A6

Sleipnir

I do like Audi's but Kaskade is right, BMWs and Golfs are seriously over-priced.

alias no.9

Sleipnir wrote:

When I was in my dad's Fiat Ritmo when it burst into flames outside the Spanish embassy nearly causing an international incident as the fella guarding the embassy though ETA were attacking when a flaming car mounted the pavement and hit the wall.. He had to sit down on the kerb for a bit, poor fella.The Fire Brigade had a good laugh at him.
It had smelled of petrol in the cabin just after a service.

When, every morning after it rained, the footwells behind the passenger seats of my brother's Fiat Punto were filled with water and you had to step over them, use the sponges provided to clear them and then squeeze it out the window as we drove.
That was until the footwells gave way, then you had to be careful you didnt get your foot caught as you went over a speedbump.

Good enough?

Fair enough. The ritmo was probably the worst fiat ever. As for the punto, the body is galvanised steel so even if there water collecting in the footwell, corrosion will be at best, very, very slow which makes me wonder why he didn't get it checked out during this time. Any half assed mechanic should be able to find and fix a leak.

Kaskade

alias no.9 wrote:

the only mechanical problem was a head gasket failure on the first punto, again a warrenty job.

head gasket failure is huge!! I would go mad if that happened to my car. Honda have made over 15million v-tec engines and they have never once had a warranty failure. Now that it reliable.

Fiats and alfas didn't just get a bad reputation for nothing, they earned it!! Even considering this I dont hate them, I think they have good styling and a bit of spirit (not boring like the germans). They are cheaper so if you pay less you have to expect slightly less quality.

I did find from past experience when we had a brava that fiat were really helpful about repairing it even though it was not under warranty because the mileage was so low. It needed a part of the injectors to be replaced and although we had to pay for the labour £70 they paid for the £400 part and gave us a replacement car with no hastle.

Sleipnir

Yeah I'd agree. I wouldn't buy a Fiat if I could avoid it because they're not as reliable as a Honda but they're not 'bad' cars.
They break a bit but it's cheap to repair them and they're cheap to run, which is fine.

alias no.9

Kaskade wrote:

head gasket failure is huge!! I would go mad if that happened to my car. Honda have made over 15million v-tec engines and they have never once had a warranty failure. Now that it reliable.

Fiats and alfas didn't just get a bad reputation for nothing, they earned it!! Even considering this I dont hate them, I think they have good styling and a bit of spirit (not boring like the germans). They are cheaper so if you pay less you have to expect slightly less quality.

I did find from past experience when we had a brava that fiat were really helpful about repairing it even though it was not under warranty because the mileage was so low. It needed a part of the injectors to be replaced and although we had to pay for the labour £70 they paid for the £400 part and gave us a replacement car with no hastle.

Head gasket failure is huge as you put it but not that uncommon among many manufacturers. But as the only mechanical failure in 600k of driving fiats, it hardly supports the arguement of fiats being supremely unrelaible.

VW didn't get a reputation for reliability for nothing, they earned it. However, that was in the past but the reputation continues though it is no longer deserved.

Kaskade

alias no.9 wrote:

Head gasket failure is huge as you put it but not that uncommon among many manufacturers. But as the only mechanical failure in 600k of driving fiats, it hardly supports the arguement of fiats being supremely unrelaible.

VW didn't get a reputation for reliability for nothing, they earned it. However, that was in the past but the reputation continues though it is no longer deserved.

I dont think common in many manufacturers. Like I said, honda never had a warranty vtec engine failure and thats the way it should be.

The reputation does continue and it makes me sick, but dont worry I am doing my best to make sure everyone knows. My friends mum had a passat and then changed to a honda accord, even though water leaked into the floor on the back and numerous other things she still preferred the VW but she has just bought herself a new model accord - 1 down, 3.99 million to go!!

Gmodified

Kaskade wrote:

Honda have made over 15million v-tec engines and they have never once had a warranty failure. ...........

but they managed to release doggy series of civics with f@cked up igniter units which caused distributor failure or integras with blowing radiators

honda is still very reliable car in general except small things but nobody is perfect

Kaskade

I would prefer the small problems any day to head gasket failure. Them too problems are so easy to fix, one part and you could nearly fit it yourself.

ken90

The main thing wrong with a honda is some of the dealerships.

I had 14 breakdowns in 12 months in an almost new, entirely dealer serviced, CRV.
Was'nt fixed until I threatened Honda that I would spend 3000 euro to place an add to sell the car and that I would tell the truth!

Turned out to be the radio stereo.

W'er of a dealer

Gmodified

Kaskade wrote:

I would prefer the small problems any day to head gasket failure. Them too problems are so easy to fix, one part and you could nearly fit it yourself.

i wouldn't call them small as in both cases you will be left on the road where punto with blown gasket will you get home on few bottles Tipperary water.

ok issues are sorted now but it happened to the best .

Kaskade

I hate most dealers, they want to sell you the car, then you but it and the wont talk to you. The honda dealer in galway crashed my civic and then would give me a replacement car while they fixed it because I was under 21 and didn't have comprehensive insurance. I had such a fight with them. They said the company they get rent-a-cars from wouldn't give me a car because of my stats. So basically they can only cater for you if you have comp insurance or you are over 21 otherwise if anything goes wrong you get treated differently. They had no problem taking the money off me for the service though. Bet they would have no problem selling me a car either. I hate dealers nearly as much as I hate german cars!!

Kaskade

Gmodified wrote:

i wouldn't call them small as in both cases you will be left on the road .

A puncture can leave you on the side of the road if you dont know how to change a wheel, I think when you buy a car you need to reside yourself to the fact that you might end up there.

Gmodified

Kaskade wrote:

A puncture can leave you on the side of the road if you dont know how to change a wheel, I think when you buy a car you need to reside yourself to the fact that you might end up there.

that's why you carry spare wheel in your car, not spare radiator or distributor
:rolleyes:

HashSlinging

Sleipnir wrote:

When I was in my dad's Fiat Ritmo when it burst into flames outside the Spanish embassy nearly causing an international incident as the fella guarding the embassy though ETA were attacking when a flaming car mounted the pavement and hit the wall.. He had to sit down on the kerb for a bit, poor fella.The Fire Brigade had a good laugh at him.
It had smelled of petrol in the cabin just after a service.?

:eek:

Seth Brundle

Gmodified wrote:

Kaskade wrote:

A puncture can leave you on the side of the road if you dont know how to change a wheel, I think when you buy a car you need to reside yourself to the fact that you might end up there.

that's why you carry spare wheel in your car, not spare radiator or distributor
:rolleyes:

erm, no point having a spare wheel if as kaskade said, you cant change one!

changing a wheel should be something done on the test (as should knowing how to check you light bulbs, oil, water, etc.)

Gmodified

well, it's kind of sad if you are a bloke and can't change the wheel,