Some thoughts on Babylon 5

azezil

***Contains spoilers if you havn't seen the series***


I started watching B5 some time ago, I came in around season 3 I think, thus found it a tad confusing at times, so I've started again from the beginning I'm up to season 2 episode 15.

I can't help but notice the similarities in story line between B5 and The Lord of The Rings!
'An ancient darkness returns', 'it gathers all the dark forces of the world (universe) to it', even the alliance with the Centari, Lando = Sauron, the ancient races leaving, Vorlons = Elfs, 'humans are the future' and so on.

Enjoying it so far, despite the crappy graphics and occasional cringe worthy acting, the story is involving and unlike Star Treks apparent random collection of stories with a running plot rarely referred to, each episode is a continuation of the story, well worth a watch if you haven’t yet seen it.

ixoy

Well l'm re-watching too and just finished Season 1 (see my sig!) and there's a reason for some of the similarities. Let's get scholarly!

Tolkein was principally a scholar. Lord of the Rings was one of his ways to build up a world by drawing on ancient folklore and mythologies of Earth. So you'll see Anglo-Saxon stuff, Norse mythology (if you read the 'Silmarillion') etc. One of the global traits of these myths is a fight between light and dark.

Now, if you listen to JMS' commentary on the S1 finale, 'Chrysalis', he'll say that the reason the stations were named Babylon is to evoke Babylonian myth which also speaks of the two sides of light and dark, which we see in LotR.

See they're both drawing on the same well spring of ancient stories to some degree and using archetypes. I mean humans are the future is a common staple of most sci-fi (Trek included). Ancient races leaving is another common element in the genre (which, let's recall, Tolkein didn't invent - merely contemporised and popularized).

Comparing Londo Mollari to Sauron however is just wrong Londo is a far more complex character and he's more about the fallibility of someone making wrong choices. He shows far more "humanity" (for want of a better word) than Sauron, who was only ever a cipher figure for darkness (we never even met him).

Fenster

Watch the end of season 3 and the start of 4. Sheridan goes to Za'ha'dum-Khazad'dum anyone? There he jumps into the abyss while slaying his enemy. Lorien brings him back to life...for a time.

This was all done to death back in 2000. Go read some of the archives on B5 boards and mailing lists.

azezil

ixoy wrote:

Comparing Londo Mollari to Sauron however is just wrong Londo is a far more complex character and he's more about the fallibility of someone making wrong choices. He shows far more "humanity" (for want of a better word) than Sauron, who was only ever a cipher figure for darkness (we never even met him).

Watch season 2 a see how much humanity he has :P

Cheers for the reply though, very insightful

Well Fenster I don't read those forums and it hasn't been discussed here, so shhhh ^_^

ixoy

azezil wrote:

Watch season 2 a see how much humanity he has :P

I've seen all five seasons so I know precisely how much humanity he has
He just makes one or two bad choices.... very bad ones.... But I love where it all goes for him as a character. He's a tragic character, if ever there was one.

Stark

ixoy wrote:

I've seen all five seasons so I know precisely how much humanity he has
He just makes one or two bad choices.... very bad ones.... But I love where it all goes for him as a character. He's a tragic character, if ever there was one.

Yes Londo is such a fantastic and tragic character. Garibaldi was right on the money when he descibed him as desperately clinging to a galloping horse.

Wait till you see him in war without end and the season finale.

What I don't like about b5 is the crappy b-stories - walkabout anyone? and over-reliance on tried and tested themes as azezil said.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

i was sad for londo when the series ended, he didn't deserve that. but it was a very nice ending for the story, if not the character.

b5 is the best sci-fi show on tv, past and present. I love the fact that it's all one giant story arc, there are a few villian of the week type episodes but even alot of them contain little clues about the main story, or when you rewatch them with knowledge of what is coming and you go "woh... tat's ****ing COOL".

babylon 4 rocked

Sooner or Later

At its best B5 was probably the best sci-fi series ever. The first to have a story arc, cool spaceships (especially the organic Vorlon ones), great characters (the whole Londo v G'kar thing, Kosh and his utterances) and generous dollops of humour (Ivanova's "alien sex" scene) as well as lots of action. You could even forgive JMS his often clunky dialogue.

Bad episodes were few and far between (like the King Arthur one).

Steven999

Yeah the over -arching storyline was the best thing ever . screw being taught religion in secondary school . they should watch b5 instead . watch 1 episode a week and the 5 years are covered .

Inspector Gadget

It's by far and away (to my mind) the best science fiction I've ever had the privilege to watch. Personally, I think it rates quite highly as some of the best TV I've ever watched - okay, the sets were gammy, the special effects were pretty damn bad, the CGI was erm, "glossy" (?), however, the acting was pretty good, and (more importantly) the characters and story arc were consistent, detailed and well thought-out - it's a very impressive body of work. I can't think of any other show I've ever watched where apparently insignificant events in an episode half a series back all of a sudden make a whole lot of sense and help knit the story together even tighter.

Using B5 to teach religion? Interesting... but do you think it's fully representative?
Gadget

Manach

Personally I enjoyed it immensely. There were clunky episodes, but overall it had the effect of watching a myth unfolding.
Re. religion, was there not one episode early on, where each Alien race demo-ed their one religious belief; and at the end the Humans had a line up of people representing each religion on Earth. Excellent, given the fact the JMS is an athiest.

ixoy

Manach wrote:

Re. religion, was there not one episode early on, where each Alien race demo-ed their one religious belief; and at the end the Humans had a line up of people representing each religion on Earth. Excellent, given the fact the JMS is an athiest.

Episode 1x11 - Believers. It was a very interesting morality play where two aliens refused to let Franklin operate on their sick son saying that if he did, the soul of their child would die. However, if Franklin didn't operate the child would die of a disease (the operation was highly routine). The episode was a conflict about his humanitarian beliefs versus respecting religious beliefs. Each race had their own thoughts on the matter. In fact my current sig comes from this episode - it's Kosh's usual helpful advice to the aliens

What I liked most about the episode was how it ended...

Franklin performed the operation, like you'd expect. What you don't expect is the parents to subsequently kill their child because they believed his soul had departed and for them to get away with it because it's their religious belief. Trok would never do that! One of the first real signs that B5 was very different

.

But yeah given the fact JMS was an atheist, he incorporated religious and spiritual beliefs far better than other big-name sci-fi shows... Perhaps by not having any of his own religion to promote, he was free to look at lots of alternative belief systems.

The Corinthian

I first came across B5 advertised on the back of one of the final issues of a comic called ‘Sandman’. I’ll admit that I was about to switch off on it, when “Signs and Portents” finally hooked me.

azezil wrote:

Watch season 2 a see how much humanity he has :P

Actually you do. He shows repeated regret throughout season two, in particular in the episodes “The Geometry of Shadows”, “The Coming of Shadows”, “Knives” and especially the scene depicting the bombing of Narn in “The Long, Twilight Struggle”. He is a classic tragic anti-hero, doing evil (although his motives are altruistic) and ironically finding himself a puppet more and more as he becomes more ‘powerful’.

By contrast Sauron is a very limited character, never actually encountered in the books, and he is little more than the anthropomorphic personification of the adversary and of evil.

As an aside, another similarity between B5 and LotR would be in how the two main arcs are concluded; the Shadow war is won, then the heroes return home to Earth to clean up the mess that has occurred in their absence. Much like the fall of Sauron followed by the Hobbits’ return to clean up the mess caused by Saruman in their absence (in the books, regrettably not in the movies).

Stark wrote:

What I don't like about b5 is the crappy b-stories - walkabout anyone? and over-reliance on tried and tested themes as azezil said.

One would have to admit that with a few choice exceptions, J Michael Straczynski is a limited writer and often the dialogue between characters in B5 was cringingly bad. His breakthrough though was developing a grand chiaroscuro story arc, an epic tale of good verses evil and placing a few choice characters in it (most notably Londo and G’Kar).

Crusade, by contrast, was designed to be more in the traditional mould of stand alone episodes with a vague story arc. Needless to say, a season of episodes on a par with “TKO” and “Grey 17 Is Missing” was all that was needed to kill it.

Much of the popularity in B5 was aided by its contrast to what was going on in the Star Trek franchise at the time. Deep Space Nine was continuing the Gene Roddenberry ‘vision’ where the future saw humanity achieve a utopian Society. B5, on the other hand, was just plain nasty; poverty, strife, conspiracy and war. As a result so many viewers migrated to B5 that it was reported that Paramount threatened to refuse to supply networks that carried B5. Ultimately, DS9 copied B5 and turned dark and nasty too with the Dominion war.

Inspector Gadget wrote:

(more importantly) the characters and story arc were consistent, detailed and well thought-out - it's a very impressive body of work.

That’s arguable, on two points. Firstly it is widely believed (although JMS denies this) that there were a number of fundamental changes made to the story ark as a result of Bruce Boxleitner replacing Michael O'Hare after season one.

Secondly, because it was originally thought that the series would not be renewed after season four, the principle story arks were concluded (“Sleeping in Light” was originally shot as the finale to season four). When B5 was renewed, this forced JMS to open up new story arks, some prematurely - contrast “War without End” and “The Fall of Centauri Prime”, for example - was the city around the imperial palace really going to be left to burn for twenty years?

Nonetheless, B5 remains one of the best and influential Sci-Fi stories of the last thirty years.

Steven999

Inspector Gadget wrote:

Using B5 to teach religion? Interesting... but do you think it's fully representative?
Gadget

for me it is . i had this whole gnostic thing going on ,especially when it first aired and b5's story of an eternal battle between light and dark made me feel all warm inside .

i could start up a whole new thread about the similarities between the gnostic religions and b5 but im too busy .

Kevok

The Corinthian wrote:

Secondly, because it was originally thought that the series would not be renewed after season four, the principle story arks were concluded (“Sleeping in Light” was originally shot as the finale to season four). When B5 was renewed, this forced JMS to open up new story arks, some prematurely - contrast “War without End” and “The Fall of Centauri Prime”, for example - was the city around the imperial palace really going to be left to burn for twenty years?

Nonetheless, B5 remains one of the best and influential Sci-Fi stories of the last thirty years.

Gotta love B5. One thing I have learned is that when it comes to B5, JMS usually has a reason for everything he puts in an episode. (Usually!)

Regarding the burning of centauri prime. I suggest you read the Centauri trilogy "Legion of Fire" written by Peter David. Which will explain why centauri prime was burning again 20 years after "Movements of Fire and Shadow".

The Corinthian

Kevok wrote:

Regarding the burning of centauri prime. I suggest you read the Centauri trilogy "Legion of Fire" written by Peter David. Which will explain why centauri prime was burning again 20 years after "Movements of Fire and Shadow".

Indeed. But if the book was written after season five’s “the Fall of Centari Prime”, then one might be forgiven for thinking that it was explaining an inconstancy rather than describing a planned arc event.

Kevok

I don't want to specify exactly how it works out in the book as it's a spoiler and not many have read the books. Suffice to say though, that the burning of Centauri Prime in War without end and In the beginning was as a direct result of something in season 4 and could not have been added to hide an inconsistency.

Fenster

The whole point of Lando is that everytime he gets what he wishes for, its the last thing he wants. The war with the Narn, Emperor Cartagia, etc.

azezil

Susan Ivanova, is she gay? episode in season 2 the blondey psychic one (i for get her name :P) stays over, sleeps in her bed.... "I woke up and you were gone"

And she never shows any interest in any of the guys

Kevok

Spoiler for 3rd season episode: Ceremonies of Light and Dark

Ivanova says: "I think I loved Talia." To Delenn during the 'rebirth' ceremony in medlab.

Stark

Yep she was a lesbian alright. I'm surprised it shocked me to find out, I mean she's so the stereotype. I guess I hadn't expected to see an openly gay character in a sci-fi show. Was shocked to see toilets there as well I loved that season 2 episode, they made such an unlikely but sweet couple and the ending was quite sad.

Karl Hungus

Ok, I just ordered Season 1 of Babylon 5.
If it's crap, I blame all you nerds who posted on this thread.

Be warned.

Boston

Christ I totally missed that Ivanova was gay. MAybe it was that I was so young watching it the first time I never copped it, but christ thats a surprise. Deadly. Have to go get session 2 now.

Stark

Karl Hungus wrote:

Ok, I just ordered Season 1 of Babylon 5.
If it's crap, I blame all you nerds who posted on this thread.

Be warned.

It's awful Doesn't pick up any way at all till Season 2 and even the above mentioned criticisms apply Sorry.

Karl Hungus

Ok, well I kinda expected as much and I've planned to get the next season too... But so help me, if season 2 is crap! You personally owe me, and must re-imburse me Stark!

ixoy

Boston wrote:

Christ I totally missed that Ivanova was gay.

She's not quite. From an interview with Claudia Christina URL=http://home.xnet.com/~tardis/pastvis/reviews/v96lanshark.html]here[/URL who played Ivanova:

Q: Couldn't it be seen that by making Ivanova gay that this is perpetuating the stereotype that the only strong women are lesbians?

CC: "No! It was only one night!" She has to really think about this one. CC basically says that it shouldn't matter either one way or another, it doesn't matter what you are, she doesn't care what anyone does. She also mentions that she feels that everyone, deny it if they will, have had at least once had an attraction to the same sex "Hell I used to make out with my girlfriends when I was a little kid, it didn't check first to see if it's a boy or a girl!"

And from another source URL=http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/6207/interv7.html]here[/URL:

"I think that a lot of people who wanted to read things into the Talia/Ivanova relationship were probably -" Christian checks herself, aware that she may be on dodgy ground as far as some viewers are concerned, but then, "I'll be quite honest, I was like the lesbian poster child; I got a lot of people writing to me from the armed forces and so forth, who loved the fact they thought I was going to be gay. I'm not gay in real life, and I don't think I'm gay on the show, but I definitely think she had some kind of thing with Talia. I think a lot of gay women were hoping for that, and I didn't want to disappoint them; I thought it would be fun."

I think it was meant more as an example of that she fell for Talia, who just happened to be a woman.

And Season 2 is good Karl Hungus, no matter what Stark says S1 is average for a genre show.

Kevok

"Signs and Portents" and "Chrysalis" are great episodes in S1. They got me hooked.

The bad ones are "Infection" and "TKO", the latter being probably the worst in the whole series. With the possible exception of "Grey 17 is missing" in S3. If you can get through those two without giving up then you'll have no problems.

Stark

And don't worry, Michael O'Hare (Commander Sinclair) gets replaced in Season 2

Karl Hungus

Ok, I'm a good bit into Season 2 now, and I've decided not to kill you all!

It's no Farscape so far, but it's definetly very enjoyable, and I'll definetly invest in seasons 3 and 4 at some stage.

Kevok

Have you watched "The Coming of Shadows" yet? What did you think?

Karl Hungus

I did, and it was excellent.

Karl Hungus

Right, well as of now I'm about the watch the final episode of season 4, and all I can say is, WHOAH what a ****ing phenominal sci-fi series altogether! It absolutely eclipses all else, even Farscape (just about)! So that's pretty damned high praise from me.

Utterly gripping aside from a few duffer episodes here and there, and most of the first season.

ixoy

Glad to hear you enjoyed it KarlH. I'm just after watching 4x16, so I'm very close to where you are. After a rather shaky rewatch of S1, I was glad to see that the show did live up easily to nostalgic memories and S2-S4 have been excellent, with little in the way of annoying filler episodes. It always makes me pine for proper long-term plotting in sci-fi shows again. As good as BSG is, it's still not as story-driven as B5.

I will say to you, try not to expect as much from the fifth season, which was more problematic. I'll be starting into it soon (it's been sitting on my shelf for months) but I do recall that it's not quite as cohesive. Having said that, it definetely picks up towards the end so never despair...

azezil

Yeah season 5 isn't great, it seemed to be rushed and less organised. Should have ended it with season 4, final episode of season 4 was a lot better than 5.

LSLFAN

Season 5 is released this month (17th I think), unless you have a multi region player - it was released in Region 1 early in 2004.

I only saw S5 when it originally aired. Have bought all the other seasons and am looking forward to seeing S5 again.

As far as I recall, it was not as good as the others but I remember that the last 5 or 6 episodes were fantastic - if you are not in tears after "Sleeping in Light" then you are not human!!

Trouble with S5 I think is that JMS did not know if he was going to get a final Season and tried to tie up all the loose ends in S4. When TNT came to his rescue he had to rejig the rest of the series. I think most of the major issues had been resolved by the end of S4 (Shadow War/President Clarke) so S5 seemed a bit of an anti climax.

Having said that, the whole series is, in my view, the greatest sci fi ever on TV and I watch it regularly on DVD.

There is an active B5 board on Warnerbros.com which attracts fans from around the world, if anyone is interested.

Cheers.

Karl Hungus

I'm just finished with Season 5 now. No, it wasn't great, but there were indeed moments of greatness, and damned if the final episode didn't get to me.

Not what I was expecting at all really, I kinda thought everything was going to go down the ****ter by the end. Don't ask why.

I've yet to see the movies, but I'm looking farward to it muchly.

ixoy

I'm almost finished S5 (3 episodes left)... I'm almost reluctant to watch them because that'll be it (for the second time).

S5 wasn't as weak as I remembered. I think it worked in patches - the first four were decent, then you had a weak run, then you had 3 decent episodes as the Byron story culminated, then a few more weak ones, and finally you headed into the last six which were finally up to the previous seasons' standards. I particularly enjoyed Londo's arc.

As to what you say Karl:

It still didn't end great for lots of characters. G'Kar finds a measure of peace but Londo very much doesn't, nor does Lennier. Sheridan must leave behind the one he loves and Delenn is left alone. Lyta is off on her sole crusade, fighting against immeasurable forces. Only Garibaldi, to my mind, finds the end to all his demons

.

From here you can go a number of ways. There's the movies, of which 'In the Beginning' is well worth seeing, 'Thirdspace' is pretty decent, 'River of Souls' is just bad, and 'A Call to Arms' is good and acts as a setup to 'Crusade'.

Do you plan to check out 'Crusade' if only to see where he had intended taking the B5 universe? Or what about 'Legend of the Rangers' (the one B5 flick I ain't seen 'coz it's not on DVD)?

And finally, if you're really keen, there's a series of books that clean up some of the plot lines. Bester has his own trilogy, there's a techno mage trilogy, and finally a trilogy dealing with what happens to Centauri Prime, Londo, etc. after the events of "The Fall of Centauri Prime". I've just purchased the latter two trilogies and am going to nab the Bester series off of Amazon...

azezil

I've watched the Legend of the Rangers, not bad but its more like a pilot episode than a movie.

The Corinthian

azezil wrote:

I've watched the Legend of the Rangers, not bad but its more like a pilot episode than a movie.

As with 'A Call to Arms' it was a pilot to a spin-off, only that it never got picked up. By that stage the B5 franchise had lost momentum, the TV movies were getting progressively worse and unimaginative. By the time we got to 'Legend of the Rangers' we were just seeing reworkings of the same ideas we saw in the original series.

One of the problems with B5 was always its Tolkienesque story ark - once completed there was nowhere to really go.

ixoy

The Corinthian wrote:

One of the problems with B5 was always its Tolkienesque story ark - once completed there was nowhere to really go.

I can see your point and kind of agree. However, I hope the novels will wrap up some arcs that were left open - David Sheridan/Centauri Prime being one for example (JMS said he'd have picked it up if he ever did a sequel series) and then Lyta's telepath war on Psi Core (which I assume is picked up in the Psi Core trilogy).

However, those stories are more wrapups, tidying up existing ends and I don't think there's a full story to be told. Even the forthcoming "The Memory of Shadows" isn't so much telling a new story as probably finalizing elements of an old one.

LSLFAN

Have just started on Season 5 - last time I saw it was when it originally aired. I'm looking forward to the last 6 episodes. Can't believe Lyta fell for that Byron dork but then I was not available

Crusade is out on DVD in late March.

By the way, the Centauri trilogy is very good and worth reading.

Karl Hungus

ixoy wrote:

I'm almost finished S5 (3 episodes left)... I'm almost reluctant to watch them because that'll be it (for the second time).

S5 wasn't as weak as I remembered. I think it worked in patches - the first four were decent, then you had a weak run, then you had 3 decent episodes as the Byron story culminated, then a few more weak ones, and finally you headed into the last six which were finally up to the previous seasons' standards. I particularly enjoyed Londo's arc.

As to what you say Karl:

It still didn't end great for lots of characters. G'Kar finds a measure of peace but Londo very much doesn't, nor does Lennier. Sheridan must leave behind the one he loves and Delenn is left alone. Lyta is off on her sole crusade, fighting against immeasurable forces. Only Garibaldi, to my mind, finds the end to all his demons

.

From here you can go a number of ways. There's the movies, of which 'In the Beginning' is well worth seeing, 'Thirdspace' is pretty decent, 'River of Souls' is just bad, and 'A Call to Arms' is good and acts as a setup to 'Crusade'.

Do you plan to check out 'Crusade' if only to see where he had intended taking the B5 universe? Or what about 'Legend of the Rangers' (the one B5 flick I ain't seen 'coz it's not on DVD)?

And finally, if you're really keen, there's a series of books that clean up some of the plot lines. Bester has his own trilogy, there's a techno mage trilogy, and finally a trilogy dealing with what happens to Centauri Prime, Londo, etc. after the events of "The Fall of Centauri Prime". I've just purchased the latter two trilogies and am going to nab the Bester series off of Amazon...

Well, I had the B5 Movie collection order a while back, so I shall indeed be seeing those soon. It doesn't include In The Begging Though, so I'll have to track that one down aswell. I'm not sure if I want to see Crusade, or Legend of the Rangers anytime soon, but perhaps some day out of sheer curiosity, but its hardly on my to do list.

Books, for me, are problematic at best. I do love to read, but the thing is that I'm dyslexic, and despite the fact that I'm fairly well composed, and have quite a large vocabulary, it often takes me ages to read a book, months even! So much so that I've a nice little collection of books that I've only half read. I'm not going to invest in any more books, because there's simply loads there I've yet to read. Funny story, I always read Ford Prefect as Ford 'Perfect' and never realised it untill fairly recently. D'oh!

Ba_barbaraAnne

I watched all the B5 series over the last year and just finished Crusade last week. It was great! I'm very sorry they only made one series as it's a shame we don't get to see how the story-line develops.

Where can i get the books? Would be nice to get more background on the characters.

ixoy

Ba_barbaraAnne wrote:

Where can i get the books? Would be nice to get more background on the characters.

Ahh Amazon are good. However, the .co.uk site doesn't have all of the Psi Cops trilogy and nowhere has the final installment of the Centauri trilogy (I can't get it anywhere!).

For what it's worth, first there were 9 B5 novels, made during the filming of the series. They are:

"Voices" by John Vornholt
"Accusations" by Lois Tilton
"Blood Oath" by John Vornholt
"Clark's Law" by Jim Mortimore
"The Touch of Your Shadow, the Whisper of Your Name" by Neil Barret Jr.
"Betrayals" by S.M. Stirling
"The Shadow Within" by Jeanne Cavelos
"Personal Agendas" by Al Sarrantino
"To Dream in the City of Sorrows" by Kathryn Drennan

Of these nine, only two are worth looking into - "The Shadow Within", which is a precussor to the Technomage trilogy and deals with what happened to Anna Sheridan aboard the Icarus (FWIW, the Sheridan bit is considered "canon").
The other is "To Dream in the City of Sorrows" which tells the story of Sinclair and the Rangers.

Next up is the Psi Cops trilogy, all by J. Gregory Keyes:

Dark Genesis: The Birth of the Psi Corps
Deadly Relations: Bester Ascendant
Final Reckoning: The Fate of Bester

.. As the name implies, the first book deals with the beginnings of the Psi Cops, and the other two with Bester.

Then we have the "Legions of Fire" series, by Peter David. It details what happens to Centauri Prime post-Season 5 up to, and including, the fate of David Sheridan, Londo, the Drakh influence, etc:

Legions of Fire: The Long Night of Centauri Prime
Legions of Fire: Armies of Light and Dark
Legions of Fire: Out of Darkness

- It's worth noting that "Out of Darkness" is out of print and impossible to locate. I'm still trying to get my hands on it.

Finally, there's the Technomage trilogy, all by Jeanne Cavelos, dealing with the technomages and their leaving our galaxy (as touched on in "Crusade"). The books are:

The Passing of the Techno-Mages: Casting Shadows
The Passing of the Techno-Mages: Summoning Light
The Passing of the Techno-Mages: Invoking Darkness

The later three trilogies have much more of JMS' approval than the earlier nine and are considered "what happened" (he touches on them in the DVD commentaries). Unfortunately, as stated, some of these books are trickier to come by and you may have to switch between suppliers or use the Amazon.co.uk marketplace which is a killer when it comes to P&P.

Hope that helps ya out - I'm off shortly to collect a bunch of the B5 books that have arrived at home

c0y0te

I'm a confirmed B5 fan. Anyone who knows me on these boards will testify to that. I've got all the episodes, all the movies etc.

Up until recently B5 was the very best sci-fi show I'd ever seen due to it's vision, depth and story arc. Farscape (as already pointed out by someone above) came close and indeed is worthy of mention in the same sentance.

Now however I feel confident in predicting a successor. Having seen the first season of Battlestar Galactica, I am massively interested in the rest of the series. When you consider how iffy the first seasons of B5 and Farscape were - while they found their feet so to speak - and then compare it to BSG season 1; well there actually is no comparison.

If you haven't already done so - get your ass over to the BSG forum on these boards, and get a copy of the mini-series that launched the actual series. In fact, season one of BSG is hitting the DVD shelves as well so go get 'em.

Coyote

Stark

Just got to see the 4th season of Babylon 5 this weekend (eventually). Fantastic, watched the whole thing in one sitting practically. Straight after watching it I went to straight into watching "In the Beginning". It's much better than previous seasons I think, the acting seems better, there are no crap B-stories and it's made totally compelling by the fact that we're now in "Endgame".

The Centauri Prime storyline was great, I loved that evil emperor. Sheridan recruiting all the defectors from Earth Force and then swarming in around Earth with a fleet of ships for a final assault, then having the defence grid turned in on Earth("Scorched Earth") was awe inspiring. It was good to see Dr. Franklin getting a compelling story too in the Mars resistance arc (makes a nice change from stim-addiction and "Walkabout" *shudder*).

Last episode was totally strange though

The Corinthian

Stark wrote:

Last episode was totally strange though

That’s because it was written / shot at the last minute.

It was uncertain; perhaps even unlikely that B5 was going to get a fifth season at the time. And so, with the principle two story arcs ending in season four, the final episode of the series, “Sleeping in Light” was actually written to appear at the end of the fourth season. You’ll note that in the penultimate episode, “Rising Star”, ends with a narrative discussing future events and conflicts - this was meant to bridge the gap between it and the next episode “Sleeping in Light”, which was set twenty years later.

When a fifth season was announced, they rapidly cobbled together a replacement finale for season four, leaving us with the enigmatic “The Deconstruction of Falling Stars”.

AFAIR, the episode “The Deconstruction of Falling Stars” is still officially numbered 501 (i.e. episode 1 of season 5), while “Sleeping in Light” remained episode 422 (i.e. episode 22 of season 4) officially.

Yes, I am a nerd.

Stark

Does that mean Season 5 runs over a time period of 20 years as opposed to the usual time period of a year?

The Corinthian

Stark wrote:

Does that mean Season 5 runs over a time period of 20 years as opposed to the usual time period of a year?

Not really. Only the final episode jumps ahead 20 years.

Nevyn

It jumps forward to show Sheridans demise as for told for he was living on
a certain ammount of aloted 'borrowed' time.

Still I would have liked to have seen the tale of Sheridans Son,
esp when he gets his long awaited coming of age gift from Londo.

ixoy

Thaed wrote:

Still I would have liked to have seen the tale of Sheridans Son,
esp when he gets his long awaited coming of age gift from Londo.

JMS said he would've covered it given a new crack at a series. He didn't so instead you have to make do with the "Legions of Fire" trilogy by Peter David that includes the story of what happened to David. Only prob. is that the third book is impossible to find...