How medals will Ireland win in the Olympics 2004

PH01

OK, so far it look crap, but has all hope gone?

Sparks

"looks crap"?
How many times have you gone to the Olympics then PH01?

daveirl

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Raskolnikov

I think Sonia is our only hope now

When is she running?

KevIRL

Raskolnikov wrote:

I think Sonia is our only hope now

When is she running?

10pm tonight

MisterAnarchy

Its very sad watching our Olympians.
Frankly some of them are embarassing.
I know Ireland is a small country but we are not doing ourselves justice.
The facilities in this country are third world and to succeed at the highest level you need the best.
Most of our past successes trained in the US.
I am half thinking of competing in some abstract sport for the next Olympics just to win a bloody medal for the country.

Sparks

I wasn't aware I had to be an Olympian to notice that kind of thing.

If what he meant was "It looks like our athletes are having a hard time", correct. If he meant "It looks like some of our best hopes have had to fight off so much prejudice and endure with so little support that their medal attempts were hindered, as in the case of Derek Burnett", then yes, you're right as well. But if what he meant was what MisterAnarchy wrote, you're dead wrong.

Its very sad watching our Olympians.
Frankly some of them are embarassing.

I'm the Public Relations Officer for the National Target Shooting Association. I've seen our athletes go abroad and win medals in the British Championships, in InterShoot, and place high in World Cups. I've seen them give their all, training for decades, sacrificing huge amounts of money, time and effort. And I see them get shag all in return because the firearms laws cripple the sport and what little is left is derided by the media and looked on as "somewhat dodgy" by the others. We saw the Irish Team from the Irish Clay Pigeon Shooting Association go to the World Championships in 2002 and win the gold medal, beating the very, very best the world had to offer. They came home to a silence that would deafen you. An RTE team were in the airport when the team came home with that Gold medal - not to film the team, but to meet a team of Irish dancers who'd come second in a UK competition.

I saw David Malone from that team go off to Cairo in April this year and win the individual gold medal, beating the Sydney Olympic gold medallist Michael Diamond and the just-awarded Athens gold medallist, Alipov. This is a guy who has to work two jobs to pay for his training - Diamond could pay Malone Malone's entire grant from the sports council out of his own pocket if he wanted to.

I saw Derek Burnett from that team go on to represent us in Olympic Trap in Athens and get within a hair's breadth of getting in the finals, equalling Michael Diamond's score on the day and beating Sydney Olympic silver medallist Ian Peel, and most of the rest of the world's best trap shooters.

And what will be the response? A third-level grant from the sports council, a single day's coverage in the media, and now it's back to being ignored by all for four years until everyone and his aunt comes out to criticise his efforts and describe them as "embarressing". And before christmas comes, the firearms laws will have been changed and we may have even more draconian laws to have to obey in order to train and get to the Olympics to represent our country.

Well I say bollocks to that. I'm damn proud of what they've done and I'm damn proud of any athlete that makes it to the games. And if they don't win, that's just how it goes. The core of the Olympics is not winning at any cost, it's not even winning. The soul of the Olympic games is in seeing countries compete against one another without having to go to war. It's about seeing fair play and sportsmanship. And if our lads are beaten by people who get more funding in a year than whole sports get in ten in this country, then I'm sure as hell not going to be standing at the airport when they come home to point a finger at them for failing.

daveirl

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Sparks

daveirl wrote:

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If the Games are all about winning, why does WADA exist? If winning was all that mattered, the end would justify the means; WADA's purpose is specifically to act to uphold the ideal that the end does not justify the means.

daveirl

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gandalf

Sorry Sparks while the taking part in the games ethos is a nice aspiration but to gain funding and recognition you need to win things. The support of sports in this country is a disgrace and everyone is to blame, from the government, the governing bodies of the various sports to the general public. But to change this we need heroes, winners, people that others can aspire to emulate. At this moment I see none.

Sonia will not get a medal on Monday, we apparently have a chance for a medal in the morning in the lightweight coxless fours and theres a boxer from Cork who may make it to the Qtrs Finals boxing tonight.

KevIRL

gandalf wrote:

Sonia will not get a medal on Monday, we apparently have a chance for a medal in the morning in the lightweight coxless fours and theres a boxer from Cork who may make it to the Qtrs Finals boxing tonight.

Boxer gone now. Only a very outside hope in the rowing in fairness, probably need someone else to sink!

ArthurDent

Down to hoping some boats sink and the other competitors in Sonia's race all get food poisoning.

ArthurDent

Looks like we're down to the food poisoning option!

Pigman II

People People! I beseach you! Lets be so arrogant as to expect that a small nation such as ourselves should be competing on the medals table with such economic/political/sporting powers as Zimbabwe, Ethiopia, Kazakhstan, Mongolia, Trinidad/Tobago and ........ Eritrea(?).

I suggest instead that we show a little of that gritty underdog spirit that has made us the most beloved nation on earth and just sit back, enjoy our lot, cheer on our olympic 'heroes' and bide our time until GAA and Binge Drinking become Olympic sports.

Raskolnikov

gandalf wrote:

The support of sports in this country is a disgrace and everyone is to blame, from the government, the governing bodies of the various sports to the general public.

How can you blame apathy when we've done so poorly, the guy doing the high jump didn't even clear the first jump. Even George Hamilton commented on how embarassing that was.

http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=Newspaper/Article&pid=1008171408374&cid=1089359269266

The Kilkenny City Harriers athlete looks destined to be a story, possibly a big story, at the 28th Olympic Games in Athens.
He chuckled at the suggestion that he would definitely be noticed. Watch for the jumper with the odd shoes, odd socks, bandana, Gothic rings, body piercing jewellery and wild, wild eyes.

He was noticed alright!

“There is no reason why he shouldn’t if he clears 2m 26cms or 2m 27cms which are well within his range. He likes the big stage, the glamour, the attention”

Didn't seem to like the attention when he failed to clear 2m 10cms.

“I am not going to Athens to make up the numbers, or to have fun,” Adrian said as a touch of steel entered his voice. “I am competing in the Olympics, and I mean competing.”

:rolleyes:

emertoff

We can't expect miracles, but should still always aim to have a realistic chance of coming back with 2 or 3 medals each time. That seems to be unacheivable this time.

I was under the impression that our athletes are better funded and trained than previously since the inception of the Sports Council and increased government funding. The Irish public have a right to know why the team has performed so poorly this time around. How many teams or individuals finished 4th, how many equalled or exceeded their personal bests? I have yet to hear of any instances of this.

It appears to me that many of our olympians seem to be ill-prepared psychologically to compete at this level and that is something that can be addressed at national level through the appointment of sports psychologists.
We appear to want to go along with the "well its great to be here" type of thinking and as a result can expect little more than a barrage of excuses and expressions of disappointment on a daily basis throughout the two weeks.

Another side point and this is not meant to be a class thing but unless steps are taken to open up some sports to people of middle and working class backgrounds, then the already small pool of people we have to repesent us is further reduced. I'm thinking specifically of sports such as swimming, equestrian, and one or two others because it always strikes me from hearing interviews (and even looking at the names, no O'Briens or Murphys) just how well-privileged some of the competitors are. It's not a point against them, just that the Sports Council could direct that the relevant bodies try to make their sports more accessible as a condition of funding. Hockey is another example of this.

Sparks

emertoff, to say "we came fourth, we're not getting value for money" is silly - you cannot buy a medal. You can, and this is what the ISC try to do, support people with a good chance of getting a medal - but buying one isn't doable.
Take Derek Burnett for example (this would be the one I know most about from this Olympics). He shot a 119, missing the finals by two points. But those two points were the result of random events during the competition - a random gust of wind at the wrong instant, a clay breaking in the machine which threw off his rythym, that kind of thing. You can't prevent that sort of setback by just throwing money at someone. (Not that it was even tried in Derek's case, his grants were quite small compared to Sonia or the other athletes).
What's needed are more training facilities here at home, and less draconian rules for shooters to be bound by. But you try to get either of those things and the same people who complain about not winning medals will be trying to prevent you from doing so.

the Sports Council could direct that the relevant bodies try to make their sports more accessible as a condition of funding.

They already do. Funding for NGBs is dependent on their strategic plans for developing the sport, and those plans must encompass both excellence (the high-performace athletes) and inclusion (the recreational side of the sport).

Flukey

We need a lot more investment in sport. It would help to alleviate some of the problems on our streets too. Looking at the games there seems to be a lot of sports that we could surely be entering into, yet have no representatives whatsoever. Having just 1 boxer this time was a big surprise. With only 49 competitors going, we can't expect much. We need more competitors in more sports, if we are to have a chance. With a bit of will and vision, it could be done. Look at the bottom end of the medals table and see what countries have places on it. We should be doing better. There was a lot of controversy after Sydney and our poor performance. Things don't seem any better this time. Maybe this week might bring something for us to smile at, but we need to be planning for the long term to give ourselves a chance of winning some medals.

Pigman II

The money given to athletes was quadrupled from e2,000,000 for Sydney to over e8,000,000 for Athens.

Plus this was amount was divided among a smaller pool of athletes this time around so clearly just throwing money at these chumps is not the answer.

Amz

It's all well and good to say they need more money, but there's no point in throwing money at athletes if their training facilities, coaching staff etc. are not up to the same standards as their competitors in other countries.

Promotion of sport is an area that needs some very serious consideration in this country. The GAA seem to me to be the only sporting body who seem to be giving this area any work, but alas Gaelic games are not Olympic sports.

We're a nation of begrudgers, we're only interested in the success stories the people who've already made it, we've no interest in nurturing the up and comers, the emerging talent. I don't know how many people I've seen who could have done extremely well in their respective sports had they been given the support of their peers or those in the governing bodies. They weren't given the oppertunities they might have gotten had they lived in the UK or the US.

We are a nation of begrudgers, all the people on this forum sitting at their computers bitching about the lack of medals. How many of them would have gone to the Phoenix park to celebrate the return of the Ireland soccer team who didn't even make it to the quarter final stages of the world cup. That a team of "professional" athletes who have money coming out of their noses couldn't even succeed at that level, a team who failed to beat Switzerland to qualify for the European Championships! How many of you have bitched about them for failing to bring home the silverwear?

Most of the athletes at the Olympics are amateur, they have jobs, college courses etc. They give up phenomenal amounts of time just for the love of their sport. For some of you to come along and say "they should do better" I'd like to see one of you give that much commitment to anything other than your criticism of them. Perhaps you're bitter or resentful of them, but I'm fed up with these armchair critics who sit there at home and watch these people on TV and then come online or sit in a pub and criticise them.

Have any of you gone to see an athletics or swimming competition, to support your countriy's representitives at anything other than soccer or rugby? We don't even have a team in the soccer at the Olympics, a competition we could possibly do very well in!

Bah!
I'm tired and I'm going to bed.

Sparks

"Chumps"? :mad:
Blow it out your ear Pigman, if all you can do is point to the people giving their heart and soul to an effort which you can only ever hope to criticise, never to duplicate. It is people like you who cause the problems that these athletes have to overcome before they can even begin to worry about competing with their sporting opponents - people, in other words, who look to pin blame on a person when a system is at fault, and who are never happier than when they get to take someone who's achieved what they can't, and criticise their performance.

They didn't get medals? Right. Fine. WHY? What went wrong? What could have been done differently? Do you know? Bollocks you do. And will you pay to do it right next time? Will you sacrifice time and money and sweat and tears to do it? Bollocks you will. You'll be one of the first to fight against new firing ranges for any of the seventeen shooting events in the Games (even though we won a World Championships gold medal only two years ago). You'll be one of those calling for Sports Campus Ireland to be shut down and struck off the books. You'll be one of those becrying the lack of spending on the grass roots level of funding even though one of the prime motivators for grassroots activity is the elite athletes. You're already amongst the first to forget that we don't even know if our athletes were competing on a level playing field, and to forget their past achievements.

daveirl

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PH01

daveirl wrote:

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Was that the 1500m guy? Surprised that was aired on TV - his comments that is.

BTW,
I didn't realise that there are a lot of people out there who are really pissed-off about Ireland performance in Athens. And a lot of this anger has been carried over from Sydney.

I think we expect too much from our Olympians these days. Part of modern Ireland if you will. We expect more. And this is good, but not at the Olympics. We should be proud of the people we have there and who are competing for us. If they get a medal then that's a bonus, but don't expect it. It's great that they're there. Should be more of them there in my view.

Flukey

We do have some good facilities and some of the money is going into those and the athletes. We need to be getting more young people involved and build a momentum. We should also be looking at new sports that we can compete in. There are lots of sports on view that we could certainly compete at with the facilities. For example, if we had a few good velodromes, we could do something in that area. We need to source money from other areas. Sponsorship, private enterprise as well as state money. An independent regulator on the Lotto funding taking it out of the realm of the politicians might give it a better chance of being spent properly.

Sparks

Sponsorship, private enterprise as well as state money.

This year's seen very little private funding of olympic sports because of two things;
1) No sponsor wanted to risk being the sponsor of the next Michelle de Bruin;
2) The Special Olympics wiped out virtually all the corporate sponsorship budgets - the Paralympic sports were particularly badly effected.

The result was that what little money went out, went out on team sports.

Flukey

That is part of the problem. We are now in a bit of a Catch 22. Without success we are not going to get corporate sponsorship and without it we are not going to get success. It may be down to our showjumpers now in terms of medals.

Sparks

Flukey wrote:

We do have some good facilities and some of the money is going into those and the athletes.

Yeah - for about four or five sports.
Take shooting for example. Here's the Comber shooting range. It's produced two olympians so far for Ireland (in the Sydney and Atlanta Games).



And for comparison, here's the Sinclair shooting range from the Isle of Man.



Now, here's what is currently the only 50m range in the Republic.




Why is it nowhere near as good a facility as the others? Money. You'd be surprised how hard it is to find funding or planning permission or even just tolerance for a shooting range in this country - even though it's an olympic sport, and even though we've a damn good record in it. Even up North, it's somewhat easier - Comber can get National Lottery funding for example. The odds of that happening down here with the Lotto are less than a club actually winning the Lotto themselves...

PH01

Sparks wrote:

Yeah - for about four or five sports.
Take shooting for example. Here's the Comber shooting range. It's produced two olympians so far for Ireland (in the Sydney and Atlanta Games).

Well done.
Anybody or organisation who help produce Olympians for this country deserve a great BIG thank you from everybody.

Remember, making the Olympics is in itself a great achievement

pickarooney

PH01 wrote:

Well done.
Anybody or organisation who help produce Olympians for this country deserve a great BIG thank you from everybody.

Remember, making the Olympics is in itself a great achievement

No, it's a modest achievement. Winning a medal is a good achievement.
Winning a medal against the odds is a great achievement.

Does anybody honestly enjoy watching Irish competitors knowing that they'll come last in their events, unless it's your family or close friends?

Sparks

pickarooney wrote:

No, it's a modest achievement. Winning a medal is a good achievement.
Winning a medal against the odds is a great achievement.
Does anybody honestly enjoy watching Irish competitors knowing that they'll come last in their events, unless it's your family or close friends?

Yes, I do. But then, I guess it's because I happen to know how badly the Sports Council is funded by government, and how badly the athletes are supported as a direct result. Just getting to the Olympics if you're not in one of the four or five sports that get all the funding in this country is a great achievement. And until you've worked in sports administration, don't bother to try to say otherwise, because you don't know.

daveirl

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PH01

pickarooney wrote:

No, it's a modest achievement. Winning a medal is a good achievement.
Winning a medal against the odds is a great achievement.

Does anybody honestly enjoy watching Irish competitors knowing that they'll come last in their events, unless it's your family or close friends?

Yes, it is a great achievement.
Getting to the Olympics isn't like buying a bus ticket! It takes a lot to get there. It's quite demeaning just to say "So What" to all of the Irish Olympians.

But, I suppose it all comes down to your ability recognise achievement. Should we cheer for someone when they manage to get their running shoes on? Probably not. Or should we only cheer when they win a medal? Well that's up to you, and where you are 'at' with yourself and with the world.

Trojan

I guess the real thing we need to ask is why aren't our athletes achieving their own Personal Bests in Athens? That's a major issue.

Sparks

Heat, humidity, mental pressure, all of which could be trained for - if the resources were there.

Renegade_Archer

A lot of it comes do to the simple fact that Irish people competing in the minority (and some of the majority) sports are competing on *their own*.. Ive represented Ireland in archery at stuff like the Junior 5 Nations, Ive spent the summer shooting against the Bavarian State Team here in Germany. (Im an archer).

One or two observations.

I got myself on the Junior Irish Team. I coach myself. I read about archery technique on the internet. I watch videos of other archers. I swap emails with people willing to help me. At the Junior EuroNations, the English had a coach, a psychologist, and an equipment specialist with them. We had a "manager", who was a worse shooter than we were.

At shoots Ive been at in Germany, the Bavarian State archers have their coach standing behind them looking at every shot. I have the voices in my head. Unsuprisingly, I got my ass handed to me.

We have one semi-professional archer in this country. He made the Atlanta Olympics. He more or less coaches himself, he sees a coach once every few months. Compare this to the South Koreans(silver and gold in the womens event in Athens), who start organised coaching around the age of 6, every high school has an archery team that would beat Ireland's best. Their team *lives* together in a specially built centre. Thats why theyre pulling in medal after medal. Its the same deal with the Italians(gold in mens event in athens, world indoor and outdoor champion).. it comes down to funding and coaching. Its the same with all sports in Ireland; we are basically out-funded, out-coached, and out-equipped.

Dont blame the athletes.

Pigman II

Sparks wrote:

"Chumps"? :mad:
Blow it out your ear Pigman, if all you can do is point to the people giving their heart and soul to an effort which you can only ever hope to criticise, never to duplicate.

Oh that's right! You're that guy with the gun fetish and 20 threads in the last week (5 on AfterHours!) to prove it, right? Clearly you're the guy to talk to when it comes to 'sport' and the olympics! Well I'll tell you what it's a bad day for sport when a guy standing in a field and pointing a gun at a wall or a lump of flying clay is called a sportsman.

Tbh honest I'm mildly amazed that sports like yours, sailing and equestrian are even accepted at the olympics. What's next, chess, formula1 ... xbox tournaments?

To answer your accusation I'm ALL FOR money and developmental aid to be handed over to .... ATHLETES, just not your lot. Aid should be given to our REAL athletes (boxers, cycling, track&field, runners, swimmers, rowers etc) whilst your lot are left to rot away on the farm shooting crows out of trees and empty beercans off walls.

My reference regarding 'chumps' was directed squarely at yourselves, equestrian and ESPECIALLY sailing who despite taking large chunks of the total funding (1) don't deliver ANY results, (2) don't capture the public imagination and (3 and most importantly) don't represent huge section of the Irish public. The fact that (as you say yourself) one of your boys got gold in the Worlds two years ago and nobody knows or cares about it just goes to show where you stand in the grand scheme of things. It's a pity you get any recognition at all tbh.

It is people like you who cause the problems that these athletes have to overcome before they can even begin to worry about competing with their sporting opponents - people, in other words, who look to pin blame on a person when a system is at fault, and who are never happier than when they get to take someone who's achieved what they can't, and criticise their performance.

People like me eh? People like me who felt gutted but still applauded real effort last Saturday after Andy Lee 'lost' in the 2nd round middleweight boxing. People like me who cheered Sonia O'Sullivan on last night despite coming dead last and even getting lapped on a 5000 meter final? Failures by most peoples yardsticks but you don't see me bad mouthing either of those two heroes! So why don't you just shut the f up and realise don't don't a single thing about me personally and you certainly don't **** about 'people like me' judging by your comments.

And btw I guess if you think our athletes are so hard done by then they should turn down any future government aid because after all it did come directly out of the pockets of 'people like me'.

They didn't get medals? Right. Fine. WHY? What went wrong? What could have been done differently? Do you know? Bollocks you do.

I don't care about medals. I was as happy to see Andy Lee and Sonia losing in the 2nd round boxing and 5000 final as I was to see Carruth winning gold in 92 because I knew they were giving their all in sports that actually mean something.

And will you pay to do it right next time? Will you sacrifice time and money and sweat and tears to do it? Bollocks you will.
I will gladly, just as long as none of it goes to 'sports' like yours.

You'll be one of the first to fight against new firing ranges for any of the seventeen shooting events in the Games (even though we won a World Championships gold medal only two years ago).

Darn right I will. but only because you're not even a sport of any significance and the money could be better used elsewhere.... like maybe a new front gate at Morton Stadium.

You'll be one of those calling for Sports Campus Ireland to be shut down and struck off the books.

Rubbish! I deeply wanted Campus Ireland built from the very minute I first heard Fianna Fail touting it in order to get elected.

You're already amongst the first to forget that we don't even know if our athletes were competing on a level playing field, and to forget their past achievements.

What are you talking about? Are you saying we in Ireland aren't already competing 'on a level playing field' financially with some of these 3rd world countries that are able to pick up handfuls of medals? And then on the ethical side Cathal Lombard was already booted for taking drugs so clearly we've no problem when it comes to trying to 'level the playing field' when it comes to morals either.

Renegade_Archer

Pigman, you are the disgrace. How many sports do you compete in? Are you a serious athlete, or just another armchair critic? HOW DARE you criticise perfectly legit sports, if you think you can do any better, I invite you to turn up to an archery or gun range and *try* to compete on the level of the world's best. In fact why dont you hop in a boat, and try sailing like our guys do? See, not so easy now, is it? Missing your nice comfortable couch yet?

And what may I ask is wrong with equestrian and sailing? They are both well-grounded sports requiring skill, like all Olympic events.


There is *nothing* stopping you or anyone else taking up shooting, sailing etc tomorrow. You might complain "but it costs too much", I work part time(Im a student) to buy my gear, in fact most Irish athletes are funding themselves, and often encounter considerable hardship becuase of it.

You dont think sports other than boxing and running require effort? Have you ever tried? I dare you, I ****ing dare you to last a whole archery competition. I dare you to complete one lap of a proper equestrian couse.
I dare you to go to a world class shooting event, and hit the target when the entire world is watching, waiting for you to miss.


*Youre* the chump here.

Sparks

Pigman II wrote:

Oh that's right! You're that guy with the gun fetish and 20 threads in the last week (5 on AfterHours!) to prove it, right?

With seventeen olympic shooting events, most of which were more closely fought than any other event in the games, it was going to be a heavy two weeks of posting. Sorry it upset you. But then again, you're not exactly at the top of my "worry about what they think" list...

(And fetish? Come on now.)

Clearly you're the guy to talk to when it comes to 'sport' and the olympics!

If it's a shooting sport, I'm certainly one of them.

Well I'll tell you what it's a bad day for sport when a guy standing in a field and pointing a gun at a wall or a lump of flying clay is called a sportsman.

So you hate the olympics then? Because last time I checked, shooting was one of the largest sports there; had seventeen seperate events not counting the sports which have shooting as a component part, like the pentathlon or biathlon; and the founder of the modern Games was a pistol shooting champion.

Why do you hate the olympics?

Tbh honest I'm mildly amazed that sports like yours, sailing and equestrian are even accepted at the olympics. What's next, chess, formula1 ... xbox tournaments?

So the traditional Olympic events, which are all based on martial skills but converted to sports through artifical rules, shouldn't include horseriding or shooting? Well, I'm sure that cavalry officers would have objected to that...

Besides, you can't show me a sport which represents the Olympic ideals better than target shooting. You simply cannot, not unless the Olympic ideals have been amended to include:

• drug-taking (there are none in target shooting);
• elitism over inclusion (shooting can be practised by anyone regardless of race, ethnicity, religion, physical strength, gender or - to an extent - age, which cannot be said for any other sport);
• professional athletes in amateur competition

To answer your accusation I'm ALL FOR money and developmental aid to be handed over to .... ATHLETES, just not your lot. Aid should be given to our REAL athletes (boxers, cycling, track&field, runners, swimmers, rowers etc) whilst your lot are left to rot away on the farm shooting crows out of trees and empty beercans off walls.

You can just feel the love there.
Now, where can I wash my hands?

My reference regarding 'chumps' was directed squarely at yourselves, equestrian and ESPECIALLY sailing who despite taking large chunks of the total funding (1) don't deliver ANY results,

For the offical record, shooting takes damn near none of the total funding. We get 20,000 euros a year for rifle shooting, 20,000 for shotgun shooting, and about 25,000 last year in carded athlete funding in total between five athletes. That's 65,000 euros. Compare that to basketball or boxing or athletics.

In return, you got a gold medal at the Cairo World Cup, two team bronzes at the Cairo and Brazil World Cups, a near-finalist in Athens; oh, and the team gold medal at the World Championships two years ago.

I call that value for money.

(2) don't capture the public imagination

I'm sorry - you complain when I post stories about target shooting and you complain when we don't tell the public about target shooting - which would you prefer?

and (3 and most importantly) don't represent huge section of the Irish public.

Nope. Just under 200,000 of them. BTW - how many people actually take part in GAA matches? Not sit on couches watching, but actually take part?

The fact that (as you say yourself) one of your boys got gold in the Worlds two years ago and nobody knows or cares about it just goes to show where you stand in the grand scheme of things. It's a pity you get any recognition at all tbh.

So we get nearly no funding for a sport where the last injury was 200 years ago (compared to GAA football for example); where anyone is able to compete equally (compared to say, golf where it seems you have to have a penis to play); where competition goes up to the Olympics; where we're the most technically demanding sport as well as the oldest and one of the largest sports in the world; where our athletes have taken gold medals at world championships and world cups; and you think that it's a shame that people take an interest in it?

People like me eh? People like me who felt gutted but still applauded real effort last Saturday after Andy Lee 'lost' in the 2nd round middleweight boxing. People like me who cheered Sonia O'Sullivan on last night despite coming dead last and even getting lapped on a 5000 meter final? Failures by most peoples yardsticks but you don't see me bad mouthing either of those two heroes! So why don't you just shut the f up and realise don't don't a single thing about me personally and you certainly don't **** about 'people like me' judging by your comments.

Yes, people like you. People who believe that you can buy a medal in the games and so vote for people who put in place a policy of investing in sport rather than supporting sport. People who want to see a "return" on that investment and happily gut the athletes like James Nolan when they don't bring home a chunk of metal. People who at the same time complain about their taxes and how they're wasted on funding sports which do bring back medals. People who think it's a waste of money to send athletes to train abroad months in advance and instead give them two weeks to get used to a ten degree hike in temperature and a doubling of humidity as well as a change in altitude. People who complain about the amount of funds in the Sports Capital Grant when all the studies show that a nation with more sports facilities is a nation which spends less on health because of lower levels of obesity and higher levels of fitness. People, in summary, who think supporting a sport is done from a couch in front of the idiot box for twenty minutes or less once every four years, and who then think they have an informed opinion on "what's wrong with Irish Sport"...

And btw I guess if you think our athletes are so hard done by then they should turn down any future government aid because after all it did come directly out of the pockets of 'people like me'.

The problem was that those pockets were penny wise and pound foolish. So every athlete on a carding grant can show you receipts for every penny spent; but the Bertiebowl cost tens of millions for studies, without ever a brick laid. Every minority sport in the country has to stretch every penny; but the four big sports (GAA football, GAA hurling, Soccer and Rubgy) can burn money without ever returning international wins at the same level as the minority sports.

I will gladly, just as long as none of it goes to 'sports' like yours.

Best make sure your tax euros go towards funding pharmaceutical research so...

What are you talking about? Are you saying we in Ireland aren't already competing 'on a level playing field' financially with some of these 3rd world countries that are able to pick up handfuls of medals?

No, we're not. It's a medical fact that genetic variations favour some runners over others - notably those from Ethopia, Eritrea and Kenya, the countries you're complaining about losing to. We're also in competition, don't forget, with athletes who later go on to be found guilty of doping - and we don't know if that's happened in Athens in pretty much every sport except target shooting, where we know it didn't (because there aren't any drugs which improve your score in target shooting).

halenger

Renegade_Archer wrote:

We have one semi-professional archer in this country. He made the Atlanta Olympics. He more or less coaches himself, he sees a coach once every few months. Compare this to the South Koreans(silver and gold in the womens event in Athens), who start organised coaching around the age of 6, every high school has an archery team that would beat Ireland's best. Their team *lives* together in a specially built centre.

And he's usually getting that coaching outside of Ireland. Places with specialist equipment in Germany and so on (from what I'm aware). He gets a fair deal of the funding that the IAAA (Irish Amateur Archery Association/NGB) get because he is an olympic hopeful. There are only a handful, or less, of people who can compete properly on an international level.

College archery is where people need to be watching/coaching and helping out. There are many very promising archers there who have the will and the ability to go further. They need proper coaching etc though. There was talk of something like that at last years AGM but I've heard nothing since so it appears it was just talk.

Amz

• drug-taking (there are none in target shooting)

Any joy getting those references for me yet Sparks?

Sparks

None yet Amz. I'm in TCD on Thursday so I'll have access to medline then.

Sparks

And just for those who think that minority sports aren't "real sports"....

From today's Indo:

Remarkably, in a move certain to raise the ire of the Irish Amateur Athletics' Association, Hickey suggested that Ireland "should be concentrating on minority sports" at the Games.

"If the same money went into minority sports, we would get champions. It's getting virtually impossible to win track and field medals. Even big, Western countries like France and Germany are struggling.

"Shooting was one of our best results here. Derek Burnett was superb, yet everyone forgets that.

ecksor

daveirl wrote:

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Utter rubbish. The self-assured ignorance is astounding here. To compete at an olympic games, to be called an olympian still means something. Otherwise we'd only have a modified version of the events on the various professional circuits which only the top ranked athletes entered.

That's why people watch, people watch to see who gets the Gold. It's a competition.

It might be why you and a lot of others watch, but spectators alone don't make a games or determine what the games are about.

ecksor

Raskolnikov wrote:

How can you blame apathy when we've done so poorly, the guy doing the high jump didn't even clear the first jump. Even George Hamilton commented on how embarassing that was.

You're embarrassed by him? Really? He trains 12 times a week, breaks the national high jump record, comes 8th in the world indoor championships and goes to the olympic games at 20 years of age with an A qualifying standard and he embarrasses you? I'm embarrassed by the ignorance on display here.

Sparks

And what Hamilton in his wisdom failed to say was that the coach that he'd trained with for the past few years, was not sent to the Games by the IAAF.
Now I don't know if you know this or not, but going to the most demanding, most pressure-laden event of your entire life, with four billion people watching and criticising everything you do, is a rather stressful situation - and he was expected to do it without his coach?

ecksor

daveirl wrote:

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Funding in track and field is a funny thing that can depend largely upon being in the right place at the right time if you look at the discrepancies between the funding of athletes with very similar performances. For someone who has gotten to a good level already it no doubt helps to keep them training at a full-time or close to full-time schedule, but it won't go too far with a promising athlete making a transition from junior to senior who has (say) competed at a good level on the junior level.

Amz

daveirl wrote:

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Well considering UL has the National coaching and training centre on their campus I'd expect their facilities to be high quality. However saying that UCC and UL have great facilities doesn't help the athletes who are based in Dublin and other parts of the country where these facilities are inaccessable on a regular basis or at least as often as these athletes need to train to maintain a high standard.

On facilities, we have one 50metre pool to service the entire country based in Abbotstown. This isn't good enough. For a country that could have a very large number of swimmers competing at international level we sell ourselves short in our lack of facilities. For us to produce top class swimmers in anything other than short course swimming we need to make this pool more accessible to others and build other facilities like it in other parts of the country.

Bull**** look at the support Youth teams in Rugby and Soccer have recieved in the past. They're up and comers.

We're talking about Olympic athletes here. Rugby is not an Olympic sport and as regards soccer it appears that we felt it was beneath us to enter a team in the competition in Athens.

Many of us did. Take a look at the Soccer forum. The World Cup in 2002 was one of the biggest sporting failures this country has ever seen.

Yet it was felt by the government and so many other officials and people in authority that we should host a celebration for these players in the Phoenix park with bands and celebrities up the yin yang. I don’t know how many thousands showed up at the Phoenix park that day but clearly none of them shared your view that it was an incredible sporting failure.

Our team was good enough to have gone far further and with the big names out we stood a chance of winning the whole thing. Look at the draw, the teams we would have played against were pathetic..

Our team consisted of a squad of professionals paid to play soccer, their coaching staff and managers are all highly paid individuals and as such they should have achieved more. As I mentioned the majority of our Olympians are amateurs, they don’t make their money from their sport only the top few do through sponsorship deals etc. but in reality its not what puts their dinner on the table. Many of them juggle a job and/or college on top of the immense commitment to their training.

To compare the two groups is quite absurd when you look at the incredible difference in their circumstances.

I don't have the talent to be the best. I don't have the talent to be an Olympian. I wish I did, I do train hard at what I do in every sport I do. I don't settle for second best, I don't try to make excuses even when I lose a meaningless five a side or whatever.

Perhaps you’re taking it all too seriously then if you’re that beat up over “meaningless” five-a-side games.

Too many of our atheltes don't want to win. Last night the 110m hurdler seemed quite happy that she finished last, I'd be gutted. James Nolan, seemed more concerned with what RTE were saying about him, than in his poor performance. Personally I'd be embarrased to do a TV interview having finished last.

I don’t think that’s fair to say that they “don’t want to win”. That belittles their achievement at even getting to the Olympic games. It shows how much regard you have for the immense commitment they’ve made over the past years and over the entire careers just to get to this level. People mocked Michael Phelps for saying he hoped to equal Mark Spitz’ record of 7 Gold medals at one games. He achieved a phenomenal amount at the games and yet he’ll be remembered not only for that but also for his “arrogance”. He obviously felt that he was good enough, that he had a shot at the record because he had the backing of his coaches, his teammates and his country. What hope have our athletes got when their facilities are below par their coaches are not at the same level of expertise and they’re under funded in comparison to those they are competing against?

When they read the papers and see how “embarrassed we all are at how badly they’ve performed” and how the Minster for sport doesn’t believe we have a realistic chance at a medal ‘til 2012 at the earliest. What kind of message does that send to our athletes and those hoping to compete at international level in the future?

halenger

Amz wrote:

how the Minster for sport doesn’t believe we have a realistic chance at a medal ‘til 2012 at the earliest. What kind of message does that send to our athletes and those hoping to compete at international level in the future?

He said that? Bloody hell. Way to encourage people.

The Olympics may be what's in question here but how many of these people have medals from other world class tournaments that we just don't hear about? Quite a number I'd say. It's only from commentary at these games that I hear about a few of them and their achievements.

I'm sure the athlethes find it quite difficult coming last etc and the Olympics with so many watching. I'd be gutted for sure but whatever happened I'd still be an olympian. That's one hell of a thing to be able to say.

Flukey

A lot of our competitors have performed well in the run up to the Olympics and in previous competitions. It seems that we have had a lot of bad luck and nearlys at the Olympics. Lots of 4th places, or scores just outside the required mark etc. We have to give our athletes credit for being there and trying. For every gold medal won in an event there is always going to be someone at the bottom of the pile. This time we seem to have been at or near that position and if we were well placed we were just outside the significant places. All we can do is start preparations for 2008.

Amz

halenger wrote:

He said that? Bloody hell. Way to encourage people..

Well, he's quoted as saying something very similar in one of yesterday's papers. I don't know which one exactly but heard Michael Lyster and Tracy Pigott discussing it on the TV this morning.