What accessories are legal??

mcguiver

Anyone know what the Irish legislation is regarding accesorising firearms.

E.G.
Sound Moderaters
High capacity magazines
Folding stocks etc.

civdef

Sound Moderators - Need a letter of authorisation from a Superintendant. In the past nearly impossible to get these, but lately hearing protection is being accepted as a reason to have one.

Hicap mags - no restriction ,except for hunting wildlife, shotgun may have no more than 3 rounds i.e. one uo the spout and 2 in the mag.

Folding Stock, no restriction.

Sparks

Civ, hearing protection's been refused as a reason for a silencer. That was in Cal Ward's column in the Irish Shooters Digest in June (the superintendent told the applicant to buy a pair of earplugs, as I recall). Lambing is the usual reason for allowing someone to have a silencer, though to be honest I've never understood why anyone would actually want one.

civdef

Several applicants have had hearing protection accepted, they quoted safety concerns about restricted hearing caused by muffs/plugs. I suppose it's another case of it being down to the discretion of an individual Super.

As a target shooter, you won't see the need for them. When you're out shooting in the vicinty of houses, animals etc, the need becomes apparent. In several countries, Finland particularly, and increasingly the UK, moderators are the norm. It's neighbourly, you can be shooting in such a way as to pose no risk to a person, but the noise can be a considerable nuisance to them.

Sparks

As a target shooter, you won't see the need for them.

True enough. I do worry about the image they have had attached by hollywood though.

mcguiver

That interesting.
I notice a lot of people have had their guns threaded for moderators, and gun stores openly advertising them.

It's strange that you can have high capacity mags, e.g. ruger 25 and 50 round.... but parts of the US have banned them!! Likewise folding stocks.

I suppose as long as they are being used without causing any harm there shouldn't be a problem.

fiacha

mcguiver wrote:

That interesting.
It's strange that you can have high capacity mags, e.g. ruger 25 and 50 round.... but parts of the US have banned them!! Likewise folding stocks.

I suppose as long as they are being used without causing any harm there shouldn't be a problem.

good point. i'd be more worried about the tactical than practical accessories. i'm not a rifle shooter, but i have read that people doing pest control use moderators so that they do not disturb livestock, people or any other bunnies etc in the area.

How practical is a folding stock on a shotgun / rifle for hunting or target shooting in Ireland ? can't see any real benefits myself.

as far as high capacity mags go, i know from bitter experience that if I don't hit the target with my first two shots, i'm never going to get it with the third. any reason for rifle shooters to use them instead of maybe carrying spare mags ?

red vex

agreed with the folding stocks point. sound moderators are very useful when after vermin. it means you can shoot in a field without scaring everything in a 2mile radius. It also stop the neighbours complaining. it can increase accuracy as well

civdef

I sold a few folding stocked Ruger rifles to farmers who kept them in their tractors, in case they dogs at the livestock.

Folding stocks generally aren't great accuracy wise, not enough rigidity, and for the majority of users, it's a cosmetic thing. Let them on as long as they're not hurtin anyone I say.

woody

I have a top folding stock on my remington 870 pump action shotgun for no more reason than storage in the booth of the car and also an extended magazine to 10 rounds but when hunting restricted to 3 rounds

Irishglockfan

Only thing that I can find that are illegal here are;night scopes and laser sites that are mountable on a firearm.As for the "silencer" liscense permit .There is no definition in the firearms law as to what a silencer actually is.So i suppose you could just call them "sound modifiers or suppressors" and say that the regulations apply to silencers only.Again Irish legislation is so vauge as to what is legal or not regarding firearms.The classic example is the shotgun barrell length.It is 24 ins.YET there are old Winchester 1897 pump actions with 16in barrells around[if you can afford them and find one].So it seems to be the usual "you cant have this,BUT...."type laws.So dont be too surprised if somthing is monkeyed around on this factor.

Sparks

Er, silencers, night scopes and laser dot sights are all covered by the Firearms and Offensive Weapons Act 1990, in sections four (g) and seven. Four defines silencers/scopes/laser dots as being components of a firearm and thus you can't just buy them off the shelf; and section seven lays out the rules for purchasing silencers.

And if you call them a "sound moderator" and say that the rules therefore don't apply, you will find yourself in deep trouble, very quickly.

Irishglockfan

Er Sparks without starting a flame.
What is the technical defination of a silencer under this act?The act doesnt describe what a silencer is.IE a device made to reduce or modify a guns report.A firearm component does not cut it.That means they could classify a muzzle brake or a compensator as a silencer.Any other country has it laid out EXACTLY what a silencer or modifer is in law. Example BATF[USA] describes it as any MECHANICAL device or object made to reduce or modify sound that may be mounted on a firearm of any type.
As for the sound modifer terminology.That came DIRECTLY form Garda technical bureau,and from my local firearms officer.Again it is as per usual the AMBIGUITY and the ignorance of the law enforcers and no clear cut guidelines as to what is the procedures etc to owning a sound modifer. I bought mine here in Limerick with no hassle whatsoever.As far as the local gardai were concerned if I had a rifle liscense,that was good enough.Again this may be different in your part of the world.

Sparks

True Glock - but you didn't try to buy one in any kind of underhanded manner - I'm just saying that if someone else were to try to do so, they'd wind up in a lot of trouble rather fast - and I'd rather not see boards.ie, or any of the shooting associations, cited as their source of information on legal loopholes!
A lot of firearms law in Ireland has the disadvantage that it's based on common sense about firearms - a "silencer" reduces noise, that's common sense. It's a bad legal practise of course, but the way the law gets implemented... is very Irish
Of course, if you're willing to spend the tens of thousands on soliciters fees, and risk the hundreds of thousands in case you lose, then the High Court is an option and you could try to beat the Gardai with the Law.... but I personally wouldn't recommend it!

Irishglockfan

Indeed sparks
All law should be based on common sense.Unfortuneatly Irish law is still based on the English law system which has been quoted as being an ass.

As for the boards being a source of legal loopholes.Well the rule of Cevat Emptor[let the buyer beware,or in this case the reader beware].Anything you read on the net,check it out yourself.
Hmm commonsense.The most uncommon of senses as a solicitor friend of mine likes to point out.Like a 24in min shotgun barrell length[excepting of course some old 16in riot shotgun] and no minimum length for rifle barrels under Irish law.An admitted oversight by the lawmakers themselves.Cant understand why there is such a problem of putting definitions in the law.Then everyone would know exactly where you stood.
Yup ,justice for all,so long as you can pay for it .
Kind of puts the oldest foundation of our western law on its head.Law shall not be bought sold or favourd to any man.[magna Carta I belive].

BTW can you shed any lite[no pun intended] as to why laser sights and NV scopes are on the prohibited list? I never could get a satisfactory answer to this.
regds
irish

civdef

Are they prohibited? All the law says is theyre to be treated as compenent parts of firearms.

Irishglockfan

As far as I can tell NO they are not illegal.
They are coverd under the act as requiring a special add on to your permit from your local super to posses and use.This is where it gets tricky,what is the good reason to posses?And what is agreeable to your local super?Everything has been suggested from its original use to reduce noise pollution to saving your hearing.As usual it is the ambiguity of the law that gives the problems.However if they are listed as a firearm component and you hold a liscense for that firearm,are you then just buying another part like a new bolt,or stock or whatever?See the clash in the law.?Yes it is classified as a gunpart so if you are liscensed you can buy it,but you need permission to buy own and use this part under the discretion of your local super.
Clear?As mud!

dcoll

Irishglockfan wrote:

Only thing that I can find that are illegal here are;night scopes and laser sites that are mountable on a firearm.As for the "silencer" liscense permit .There is no definition in the firearms law as to what a silencer actually is.So i suppose you could just call them "sound modifiers or suppressors" and say that the regulations apply to silencers only.Again Irish legislation is so vauge as to what is legal or not regarding firearms.The classic example is the shotgun barrell length.It is 24 ins.YET there are old Winchester 1897 pump actions with 16in barrells around[if you can afford them and find one].So it seems to be the usual "you cant have this,BUT...."type laws.So dont be too surprised if somthing is monkeyed around on this factor.

How do I obtain an import licence for an NV Scope.

chem

Hi dcoll. Save your money. I had a GENII+ scope awhile back. Brand new top of the range, high gain and US made. Payed alot for it too. Got it used it but was useless for anything long range unless you had a full moon and clear night. Also noticed its very very hard to gauge distance because in effect you were seening a projected 2D image. Also for a scope you can only have a small magnifacation as there is a light gain/mag ratio. Higher the mag the less light the scope will gain.

I have a feeling that the issues in the north had a big deal to play in why they were banned (restricted). But even the GENIII or IV is old hat now with thermal imaging been used.

Clare gunner

[

QUOTE=chem]Hi dcoll. Save your money. I had a GENII+ scope awhile back. Brand new top of the range, high gain and US made. Payed alot for it too. Got it used it but was useless for anything long range unless you had a full moon and clear night.

Did you not use an active IR source as well???Can I ask what make it was?

I have a feeling that the issues in the north had a big deal to play in why they were banned (restricted). But even the GENIII or IV is old hat now with thermal imaging been used.

[/QUOTE]

Ask Messrs O Dea and Burke as to that one.Thats their handywork.The thermal imaing eq,expect to pay around $25K for a rifle mountable scope,and good luck trying to get it out of the US or even buyin it in the EU.It is restricted technology.Wait patiently another 25 years,as it is the same size ,bulk and BS attached paperwork as the Gen1 Vietnam era nite sopes.

Babble

Personally myself I would like the ability to use a Suppressor/Sound Moderators. Unfortunately there prohibited here as well :mad:

And I would use it mainly for target shooting, although some of my target shooting goes alone the lines of...... "Shooter ready"...... Beep!......Run to door....open door....engage brown targets without hitting white targets...move through room to next door etc

chem

Clare gunner wrote:

[

Did you not use an active IR source as well???Can I ask what make it was?

Sure had CR. It was a built in 75mW IR source. Dont get me wrong it was great for rabbits and the like @ 50-75yrds but anything else was abit hit and miss.......mostly miss:rolleyes:

Problem was with the 2D image and unless you knew the area well and could have an idea of the range the target was at it was hard to judge. Was thinking of masking tapeing a range finder to it but just tought id end up going the full hog and just mount the rifle/NV scope/range finder on wheels. Maybe on the back of a ford pick up, african civil war style:D

The make was Deban if i remember right. I had the choice of a US or russian tube. I went for the US.

Vegeta

Oh I have a logun mkII pro air rifle and it has a moderator as standard; is this illegal??

Sparks

If you've got the licence for it Vegeta, no - the mkII's moderator is integral to the rifle, and since all the rifle's parts are covered by the licence, it's licenced too.

Vegeta

Cheers sparks, yeah I have a license for it. Its probably one of the best guns I own and its an air rifle. I can shoot the heads off a decent sized daisy from bout 20 yards with it. Went shooting crows and the likes with it a few times but I always rush my shot on live targets, got to learn patience i suppose.

Degsy

I was thinking about attaching a bayonet to my .22 in case an injured rabbit decides to rush me...would this create legal problems?:D

Sparks

For you or the rabbit?

Clare gunner

Be handy for gutting said rabbit.Or a necessity if you live by the caves of KY BAN ACH,with it's killer rabbit.:D [Monthy Python fans will know what I mean.]

jaycee

Ahh well in that case even a bayonet is useless,:(
The only thing that works on them is the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch.

Instructions for use...

"First shalt thou
take out the Holy Pin, then shalt thou count to three, no more,
no less. Three shalt be the number thou shalt count, and the
number of the counting shalt be three. Four shalt thou not count,
neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three.
Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number,
be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch
towards thou foe, who being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it.

Rovi

Rovi: "One!... Two!... Five!"

.

thelurcher

Heard a few of the Americans on about the NVS7 (?) goggles - they then use their normal scope - and think it works much better - can't picture me having enough eye relief on my setup no matter how far forward I'd push the scope
I'd imagine you'd have to have your head at a right awkward angle to line up the eyepieces.

They swear by it though - it would get around our vague laws as well.

Some good info here if you search:
http://rimfirecentral.com/forums/

Clare gunner

jaycee wrote:

Ahh well in that case even a bayonet is useless,:(
The only thing that works on them is the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch.

Book of Armaments chapter three verses one to six.:D

Aid the Blade

woody wrote:

I have a top folding stock on my remington 870 pump action shotgun for no more reason than storage in the booth of the car and also an extended magazine to 10 rounds but when hunting restricted to 3 rounds

just got an 870 and was wondering where i would get such accessories.

Clare gunner

thelurcher wrote:

Heard a few of the Americans on about the NVS7 (?) goggles - they then use their normal scope - and think it works much better - can't picture me having enough eye relief on my setup no matter how far forward I'd push the scope
I'd imagine you'd have to have your head at a right awkward angle to line up the eyepieces.

They swear by it though - it would get around our vague laws as well.

Posted and debated this with Sparks awhile back this year.
What you need is an ACOG or Bushnell Holosight that is NV compatiable [appx $3/400 USD] and your goggles [$300 to $1000].If you use russkie NV goggles that will be cheaper with a increased health risk from X rays.
It will beat the nite vision weapons mounted ban,as the NV component is NOT connected to the sighting mechanism.Most importantly.Thats why the NV scope mounted on the rifle as advertised in the UK is a nono here.All in all a stupid law,as there are plenty of ligit uses for a NV weapons mount.

Babble

Aid the Blade wrote:

just got an 870 and was wondering where i would get such accessories.

http://www.combatstocks.com/ATI_Universal_Top_Folding_Shotgun_Stock_SALE.cfm

http://www.combatstocks.com/Choate_Remington_870_Top_Folder.cfm

Sparks

Babble wrote:

Uh-huh. And people wonder why some Gardai get nervous over firearms licence applications. I mean, come on guys...

Sparks

Vegeta wrote:

Its probably one of the best guns I own and its an air rifle. I can shoot the heads off a decent sized daisy from bout 20 yards with it. Went shooting crows and the likes with it a few times

I don't hunt myself, so I missed this one; but I'm told that shooting birds or animals with an airgun is illegal under the wildlife acts? Can anyone verify this? You might want to not do that anymore vegeta!

Clare gunner

That advanced target top folder ,give it a miss.It is all plastic,the grip is like an AR15 and cuts into your web of your hand when you fire 3in loads or slugs somthing fierce.The "cool factor" is impressive on it tho:D .Unless you really need compact storage,I would give the folders a miss.And in a way I agree with Sparks.
BUT there is nowt to stop you having these accessories,just use common sense and dont go waving it under the general sheeples faces or Gardai.
I mean the way some of these target airguns look, do they go Zap or Bang?Look like somthing the Terminator would use.:D

Rovi

Clare gunner wrote:

I mean the way , look like somthing the Terminator would use.:D

Better not go looking to licence a 'phased-plasma rifle in the forty watt range' then, I suppose!


.

Vegeta

Hey you found my pistol thanks man, I'll be back :v: for that. Oh god worst joke ever I know but T2 would definitely be in my top 3 films

airy-fairy

SPARKS asked: "I don't hunt myself, so I missed this one; but I'm told that shooting birds or animals with an airgun is illegal under the wildlife acts? Can anyone verify this?"

I contacted the NARGC on this recently.

This is what their guidance is.

"The Wildlife Act prohibits the hunting of all birds with a rifle and under the definitions that includes an air rifle. The Act does not prohibit the hunting of rabbits or vermin such as rats, mink etc with an air rifle."

So fortunately for magpies and wood pigeon and the ferals in the cow shed they just get an ounce of 6s.

Some rabbits and rats meet their maker with 16gr's of lead at about 900fps.

Never saw a mink when I had the air gun out. I am not sure what etc is but probably not anything I could take with the airgun anyway - foxes, feral goats, feral cats?

BTW what is the legality of shootig a cat. I have heard that around release pens they may be shot on sight in some countries. Probably not in Ireland though...

Clare gunner

"The Wildlife Act prohibits the hunting of all birds with a rifle and under the definitions that includes an air rifle. The Act does not prohibit the hunting of rabbits or vermin such as rats, mink etc with an air rifle."

So fortunately for magpies and wood pigeon and the ferals in the cow shed they just get an ounce of 6s.

I think they mean GAME birds.

.

Never saw a mink when I had the air gun out. I am not sure what etc is but probably not anything I could take with the airgun anyway - foxes, feral goats, feral cats?

BTW what is the legality of shootig a cat. I have heard that around release pens they may be shot on sight in some countries. Probably not in Ireland though...

Shooting any of the above with an air rifle is a no no.Including Mink.They are tough critters.
Cats,well if they are feral and not within distance of a building,consider them fair game.Think you will spot the difference between a feral cat and a domestic house cat.As per usual not somthing to be done in the area of the GP.
The continent you can shoot cats or dogs,when they are 300 meters from the last habitated building.

Clare gunner

Rovi wrote:

Better not go looking to licence a 'phased-plasma rifle in the forty watt range' then, I suppose!


.

Hmmm so the thing will look like a SA80 that was truncated and had more bits glued on??:D Wonder why it never showed up in T2?As it was T1 that it was first mentioned.
Anyway I'll go with the future Govenor of Kommiefornia's weapons
Ze 9mm Uzi,ze longslide 45 vit laser sight.[in a different life long ago,I actually got to shoot the "real"version of that prop:D ],ze SPAS 12,ze Armalite,ze phased plasma rifle in ze 40 watt range.

Ironically three of those weapons that made Ahrnald famous are banned in the state that he termintes...er...governates.And he has banned 50 cals as well,not to mind making any effort to roll back the assault weapons ban over there.Glad I left.:mad:

Babble

sorry to be off topic but I just love the name "airy-fairy":D


Were heading for an election over here in January and the Canadian conservatives have made a promise to rewrite the Firearms laws.
So theres the vague outside possible maybe chance that we'll see changes over here. But I'm not counting on anything.
The optimists think they'll see concealed carry laws come in :rolleyes:
Yeah like thats every going to happen!

Babble

Clare gunner wrote:

Hmmm so the thing will look like a SA80 that was truncated and had more bits glued on??:D Wonder why it never showed up in T2?As it was T1 that it was first mentioned.
Anyway I'll go with the future Govenor of Kommiefornia's weapons
Ze 9mm Uzi,ze longslide 45 vit laser sight.[in a different life long ago,I actually got to shoot the "real"version of that prop:D ],ze SPAS 12,ze Armalite,ze phased plasma rifle in ze 40 watt range.

Ironically three of those weapons that made Ahrnald famous are banned in the state that he termintes...er...governates.And he has banned 50 cals as well,not to mind making any effort to roll back the assault weapons ban over there.Glad I left.:mad:

have you every seen the show Monster Garage?
There is a clip where the host is going to shoot a failed project with his FIFTY. He mentions how he picked it up before the ban and how much he likes guns etc its interesting.

You can see it online I'll have to look it up

Vegeta

Sparks wrote:

I don't hunt myself, so I missed this one; but I'm told that shooting birds or animals with an airgun is illegal under the wildlife acts? Can anyone verify this? You might want to not do that anymore vegeta!

I think shooting any game birds with it is definitely out, but vermin are a different matter. As far as I know its legal but I'm no expert. Also this is a hunting air rifle its muzzle energy is 12ftlbs. I know for a fact they are used for this type of shooting in england but cant say for definite if they are legal for vermin here. I'd better look into it

scout

What about the look of a gun say a .22 semi auto
http://www.hoosiergunworks.com/images/f_marlin_a1dl_22lr.jpg
http://www.rhinelandarms.com/R22/mpics/bull6.jpg
http://www.webarms.com/Gun%20Suppliers/Olympic%20Arms/olympi2.jpg

are all of these the same thing ????
all.22 semi auto......

Sparks

Legally, the look makes no difference, just the barrell and receiver. In practise, you encounter the "Idontlikethelookofthat" rule though, because the Garda usually wonders why someone would want a firearm that so closely resembles a military weapon (it sets off the Walter Mitty alarm in a lot of people if we're honest about it, really). But there's no problem with changing stocks on a licenced firearm.

Obviously, things like night vision scopes and laser sights are different though, as they're covered under legislation.

Vegeta

scout wrote:

What about the look of a gun say a .22 semi auto
http://www.hoosiergunworks.com/images/f_marlin_a1dl_22lr.jpg
http://www.rhinelandarms.com/R22/mpics/bull6.jpg
http://www.webarms.com/Gun%20Suppliers/Olympic%20Arms/olympi2.jpg

are all of these the same thing ????
all.22 semi auto......

The gun in that second link is class, want want want

Babble

Vegeta wrote:

The gun in that second link is class, want want want

Looks good but dosent feed so good yet :mad:


I'm expecting a new ejector, bolt and mag catch to cure my woes in the new year

Sparks

Babble wrote:

Looks good but dosent feed so good yet :mad:

Ah yes, the old form-versus-function tradeoff

I'm expecting a new ejector, bolt and mag catch to cure my woes in the new year

Bleh. Forget the gismos! Train more!
(Said he a week after buying a new buttplate for his air rifle )