Martial Arts: A Way of Life?

Trying to get off the topic of fighting/self defence.


What makes martial arts unique? (versus sport or other hobbies)


Does training 2 nights a week make something a way of life? Do you have to be a professional for it to be a way of life?

Any thoughts?

dudara

I think that in all reputable martial arts, not only are you being taught a skill, but also how to handle that skill. A philosophy if you will. I practise TKD and every class starts with an oath

As a student of TKD I shall..
observe the tenets of TKD
Respect the instructor and seniors
never misuse TKD
be a champion of freedom and justice
build a more peaceful world.

Lofty ideals, but every time i recite the oath I think about them. It's weird that in learning a marital art, I've learned a lot of self-control as well.

dudara,

Do you integrate that thinking into just your training or into your every action? This being the distinction between philosophy that impacts training and philosophy that is inherent in everything you do.

Also, what are the tenets of TKD?

edit: fixed typo

briano

I agree with dudara. I think its not about how many nights a week you do martial arts training, but more about what you bring out of that training into day to day life. I know it sounds really naff but I do think about the tenets, especially when I am doing something fiddly or really frustrating, even when that activity has nothing to do with martial arts at all.

briano

Tenets:

Indomitable Spirt
Perseverance
Courtesy
Integrity
Self-control

dudara

The tenets are courtesy, integrity, perseverance, self-control and indominitable spirit. They sound like soundbites, or flash words, but occasionally you do find yourself thinking about them. One of my instructors favourite tricks is to make you explain them in your own words.

It's very easy to remember the tenets in the dojang, but it's harder out in the real world. However, I'm definitely a calmer person now than before and I've gained self-confidence but not ego. When you find yourself achieving a high turning kick in training, that confidence and assurance translates in everyday occurances.

I would have always been a very polite person, this being something that my parents taught me, so I don't know how much of that comes from TKD.

Whats the difference between Indomitable Spirit and Perseverance? Surely theyre the same, or very similar, things?

I know it sounds really naff but I do think about the tenets, especially when I am doing something fiddly or really frustrating, even when that activity has nothing to do with martial arts at all.

As in your concentration is wondering so you strengthen your will and determination with an in-brain self pep-talk? Think I get what you mean!

dudara

while they are similar, I think there is a big difference between indominitable spirit and perseverance.

to me, spirit means not getting beat down by the world, and finding the courage within yourself to continue. Perseverance mean continuing until you achieve.

TwoKingMick

I think the most positive effect tkd had on my life is that i don't turn my back to someone immediatly after saying goodbye. All the other stuff is just buzz words made up in the fifties to make it sound legit and respectable.

I think the most positive effect tkd had on my life is that i don't turn my back to someone immediatly after saying goodbye.

I actually noticed that about you. I was gonna say something but...


OK. What makes practicing martial arts different from say rock climbing which requires

1) Indomitable Spirit: Fighting your weaknesses

2) Perseverence : Never Giving Up. Keeping on going!

3) Self Control: Not freaking out. Facing fears

Couldnt find an analogy for courtesy and integrity but I assume most rock climbers are known for their character and politeness . They also have to focus, be courageous among other characteristics!

What makes TKD or MMA or Karate or Kung Fu unique?

Any further thoughts?

pearsquasher

Thats a really interesting question actually. I would say nothing makes martial artists any more unique than anyone else who is enthusiastic about what they are doing. I have training in Budo Taijutsu for several years and have seen as many assholes, unreliable people, flakes etc than in any dicipline form rock climbing to ballet. Thats just human demographics for you.

The thing is, a lot of modern MA usually has a selling point of self-development, making you a better person etc, whereas rock climbing and ballet don't. But don't forget, those selling points are a realtively new, invention. The whole concept of doing a MA to improve yourself as a human being, outside of that MA is pretty new.

MA were born out of medieval times when quite simply, people needed to learn how to kill each other efficiently. Back in the day, in China, Japan and Europe, when civil wars erupted, invasions ebbed and flowed... nobody had the luxury of practicing MA to make their outlook on life better... they did it to survive! Are the Iraqi rebels currently engaged with the Us soldiers in Najaf teaching their guys to shoot mortors doing it to improve their mind? I think not!

Over the centuries, as the world becomes industrialised, stable (relatively) and we are able to feed ourselves and not fight over land/resources, the idea that MA could leave the practicioner with a new sense of self started to emerge.

I do Budo Taijustu as i am intellectually interested in efficient body movement (art) expressed through real combat situations(martial). The side effects of self improvement are there alright, but i think i would get the same had i decided to study fine art, for example. It's all about educating yourself. The greatest paradox of a Martial artist is that they should never need to fight. If i was an accomplished fine artist or rock climber, i doubt i'd be in aggresive situations either! It should bot take you to be a martial artist to see that being in fights is a poor lifestyle choice. If you are educated and realise that you have nothing to prove, its pretty obvious fighting is easily avoided.

Excellent post. This is the kind of direction that I was hoping the thread would go in.

The thing is, a lot of modern MA usually has a selling point of self-development, making you a better person etc, whereas rock climbing and ballet don't. But don't forget, those selling points are a realtively new, invention.

Good point. Rock-climbing and ballet dont need to use this USP (unique selling point). They just do it. Undoubtedly devoting yourself to something can have overwhelmingly positive effects on a person (and sometimes it can have very negative effects).

Maybe these selling points are a very western way of trying to make martial arts some kind of lifestyle accessory. I dont think that the spirituality of eastern martial arts fits in the context of western culture. I think its lost in translation, as such, and I feel that we over-prioritise and emphasise certain aspects that probably dont mean much to the original culture.

I do Budo Taijustu as i am intellectually interested in efficient body movement (art) expressed through real combat situations(martial). The side effects of self improvement are there alright, but i think i would get the same had i decided to study fine art, for example. It's all about educating yourself. The greatest paradox of a Martial artist is that they should never need to fight. If i was an accomplished fine artist or rock climber, i doubt i'd be in aggresive situations either! It should bot take you to be a martial artist to see that being in fights is a poor lifestyle choice. If you are educated and realise that you have nothing to prove, its pretty obvious fighting is easily avoided.

A very enlightened and unfortunately quite a rare outlook. Too many people whether they admit to it or not are concerned with chasing tough guy image. They want everyone to see them as some kung-fu master or invincible samurai, ultimately an unfulfilling thing to chase.

A major reason I do Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is for the joy of going into autopilot. When you stop thinking about doing something and just go. I guess its when the right side of the brain takes over (same thing happens when I draw!) and you are in the zone as they say. Maybe thats what enlightenment is all about. Maybe not.

Colm_OReilly

It should bot take you to be a martial artist to see that being in fights is a poor lifestyle choice. If you are educated and realise that you have nothing to prove, its pretty obvious fighting is easily avoided.

Perfect

TwoKingMick

Not quite perfect, theres a b there instead of an a, and the grammer is a bit ropey

elivsvonchiaing

Reading this: I'm kinda depressed no-one acknowledges: Bruce Lee as a contributor. I think he was. - a major one.

How many schools worldwide were there of martial arts - in 1971 - in 1981? Do you really believe David Carradine pulled this off alone????

Flames - abuse - NO - constructive arguement: OK lets do it!

GuanYin

Don't flameme for this, but sometimes I am sorry that martials arts were ever taken to the western world. So many of the premises behind the philosophy of martial arts just got lost in translation and you have flashy oaths like those above.

My family is Korean and my fathers family were one of the major schools of Tae Kwon Do. While there was always a rathern zen-like philosophy there was nothing as ridiculously cheesey as "be a champion of freedom and justice" or "build a more peaceful world". I suppose mainly because its so commonly taught in Korea (in school for instance) but also because it simply wouldn't be stood for, that the idea of it being misused is nearly unthinkable. These types of oath came to fashion in the west because, frankly, thats not the case here.

As far as philosophy and way of life goes, martial arts are more about unlocking aspects of a person and focusing them to perform, not just the skills of a martial art itself, but confidence, discipline and other important character traits important in life.

Sometimes I think people here romanticise things far too much.

Reading this: I'm kinda depressed no-one acknowledges: Bruce Lee as a contributor. I think he was. - a major one.

I dont think that Bruce Lee was acknowledged because its not really pertinent to this discussion. He was undoubtedly a contributor but I think thats a different discussion.

Flames - abuse - NO - constructive arguement: OK lets do it!

No flames around here!

Don't flameme for this, but sometimes I am sorry that martials arts were ever taken to the western world. So many of the premises behind the philosophy of martial arts just got lost in translation and you have flashy oaths like those above.

Good point. I think Judo is probably the only eastern art that manages to bypass a lot of this stuff.

Sometimes I think people here romanticise things far too much.

True. Colm hit upon this in the ninjitsu thread.

As far as philosophy and way of life goes, martial arts are more about unlocking aspects of a person and focusing them to perform, not just the skills of a martial art itself, but confidence, discipline and other important character traits important in life.

I would go a step further and say that activities taken seriously require all of the above. Martial arts are not unique in this respect. Whether that activity be art, writing, music, sport or martial arts it all takes the same kind of focus and dedication.

dudara

I would say that the reason a lot of those oaths are tenets are built-in in TKD is to remind people of the skills that they are learning. I treat TKD purely as an exercise regime (that does wonders for flexibility) and also as a way of pushing myself to do things that I thought my body never could.

however, there are people who take up martial arts for the sole intention of learning how to fight and hurt. By introducing the oaths etc, even if they are a bit "flashy", we are reminding ourselves that we are learning more than how to hurt people.

GuanYin

Do you not maybe think that glamourising and hollywood-ising the martial art with oaths and tenants above not only detracts from the actual art itself, but is also a dangerous example to the students.

"be a champion of freedom and justice"
and
"build a more peaceful world"

are very close to "hero" mentality. One could argue that they infer some sort of obligation to act as a superhero, or even worse vigilante.

Its a very Hollywood-ese notion and younger more impressionable students could easily take this the wrong way. Any martial arts instructor that suggests you enter into avoidable conflict, for any reason, is outside the scope of his responsability.
This sort of "tenant" would stand againts everything that most schools stand for.

dudara

To be honest Syke, I would say that only fools would think they were superheroes after studying martial arts. Fools who will get themselves hurt or worse when they try to act upon their stupidity.

Yes, the oath includes some very "glamorous" ideas, and in fairness, most of the time it's just something you spout at the start of the class. However, if we all took the time to do something each day that reflects the oath, such as opening the door for an old person or helping a woman with her childs buggy, then that's all fufilling the oath.

We don't need to go fight the supervillain in his evil lair.

GuanYin

Try telling that to a 12 year old who gets into a needless fight because he thinks he is obliged to act the hero.

I think whoever wrote that oath is grossly irresponsible.

dudara

Good instructors ensure that is not the case. It really all does come down to the instructor at the end. If he/she is a psycho-headcase then he will do irrepairable damage to his students.

Developing hero complexes is certainly quite worrying. It feeds the image of the student, which could lead to passive aggresive tendencies. Encouraging unnecessary fights just to prove this image. Quite unhealthy in my opinion.

dudara

AFAIK it was General Choi Hong Hi who wrote the oath.

GuanYin

dudara wrote:

AFAIK it was General Choi Hong Hi who wrote the oath.

I don't think so. Perhaps he did, he was the main proponent of westernising taekwondo after all, even still, the site doesn't attribute it to him at all (as it does many other things).

dudara

LOL, that's true, they attribute just about everything, short of the creation of the world to the man.

Moss

Don't mean to be harsh but that TKD oath sounds ike something president Bush would say. I don't know how you reconcile the violence of TKD and peace. I think the people who say they simply get a thrill out of TKD are more honest.

I did TKD for a few years when I was younger but gave it up. I now want to do aikido. I don't want to spend years training in martial arts so I can smash someones face in. I'd prefer to train so I won't have to.

Let me know what you think. :eek:

GuanYin

Moss wrote:

Don't mean to be harsh but that TKD oath sounds ike something president Bush would say. I don't know how you reconcile the violence of TKD and peace. I think the people who say they simply get a thrill out of TKD are more honest.

I did TKD for a few years when I was younger but gave it up. I now want to do aikido. I don't want to spend years training in martial arts so I can smash someones face in. I'd prefer to train so I won't have to.

Let me know what you think. :eek:

Hrmmm a controversial first poster... I never thought I'd see the day

I think that you're right about the Oath (although I'm not sure Bush could manage it, its a bit complicated for him) but I've never felt the urge to smash anyones face in, in fact, I tend to be much more cautious about being violent, even in play, because I am concious I could inadvertantly hurt someone. I had a broken arm once and my mother went to playfully punch me (I was slagging her), instinctively I blocked with my cast and I fractured her hand.

The only aspect of Taw Kwon Do that I am conciously happy about are my reflexes which, I must admit, are A1.

PhoenixRising

Moss wrote:

I don't know how you reconcile the violence of TKD and peace.

Moss wrote:

I don't want to spend years training in martial arts so I can smash someones face in. I'd prefer to train so I won't have to.

I think you just answered your own question there.

TwoKingMick

dudara wrote:

Yes, the oath includes some very "glamorous" ideas, and in fairness, most of the time it's just something you spout at the start of the class. However, if we all took the time to do something each day that reflects the oath, such as opening the door for an old person or helping a woman with her childs buggy, then that's all fufilling the oath.

You don't need to say a silly americanised oath two times a week to be nice to people.

Walsingham

Most people join a martial arts club with the idea of ending up like Bruce Lee.
Someone who is supercool and take anyone, who can look after themselves no matter what. This is tragic misconception of martial arts that Bruce Lee and those "Martial Artists" like Steven Segal, Chuck Norris and the rest have ruthlessly propagated. Bruce Lee used most of films to promote himself and his martial arts to the detriment of the martial arts about at the time. He was one of the first MMA and liked to project the image that his art was superior to all others. However if you read "The Tao of Bruce Lee" you will see that this is simply not true. Bruce Lee was not as good at martial arts as he was at self promotion.

Every martial art has its flaws, and today if you want to be a true engine of destruction you should join an artillery unit of an army. Why fight eyeball to eyeball when you can fire a 50 kg shell 50 km and land it within 5m of your enemy with the help of satelite/drone imagery and laser guidance? However the process of loading and firing an artillery piece and the other modern military endeavours that most engage in are to say the least brutal and mechanistic not to mention soul - less practices. Even today most modern armies use methods such a foot drill and physical training to instill attributes in their personnel that are required to make them effective and disciplined in high pressure environments.

As you have to admit martial technology has moved beyond solo martial arts(it has done since perhistoric times when armies were first raised) , so the aim of taking up a martial to be an unstopable force of nature is foolish to say the least. The thing is most martial arts have their own goals and objectives (or more accurately the instructors do) and there is frequently a mismatch between the objectives of the student and the instructor. The shameless self promotion of certain styles through the past 20 years (In Ireland, past 50 years in some countries) has made matters worse. Students get disillusioned and frustrated or worse still beaten and injured along with aforementioned disillusionment and frustration.

There is yet to be an "ultimate" martial art. Most martial artists today have no solution to dealing with a positively primitive weapon like a bow. A good field archer at 25 m will get one aimed shot off and nock another arrow before the distance is closed. (Allowing 2.5 seconds to run 25 m which is fast!)

So why study martial arts and not run out and get a gun or some other kind of weapon? Apart from legal implications I feel there is more to martial arts than a series of techniques than making short work of an opponent. Depending on you art you will be exposed to all kinds of strategy in a very real sense. You develop an ability to think on your feet and gain confindence as you see through the choice of strategy or approach that you have made to a successful conclusion. Martial arts encourage speed of thought and action to the point where you no longer have to consciously have to think.

They can improve fitness, speed balance and co - ordination. They can give fantastic awareness of what is going on around you and your body in space. Your interaction with training partners in a club/dojo can help you to learn new ways of dealing with others and equip you with pscyhological tools for dealing with all manner of people. You can be having a laugh and joke with someone and later when training they can actively try to take your head off with a bokken.

Dealing with this kind of interaction where another takes on the role of aggressor can help you deal with this situation should it arise and playing the aggressor can help you to undersatnd the ritual and psychology of attack. As you progress up the hierarchy of your organisation you may end up taking responsibility for the well being and training of others, the maintenance of your club or its equipment. Training in a one - one manner commonly found in all martial arts also helps to develop your communications skills and may ultimately develop into the ability to teach.

The most important thing people can learn in martial arts has to be emotional control over themselves. The timid become more outgoing, the aggresive and angry more even tempered and those that are afraid a kind of inner strenght and confidence they never new they had. This however does not happen for everyone and much depends on how a club is run and how the person percieves themselves.

These skills and many others spill over into your life. I do not think that you need to be a professional instructor to achieve this goal and some of the most competent martial artists have day jobs. Some maybe in associated areas, but ultimately it depends on the instructor themselves and how they lead there lives. If you try to incorporate the mental skills and strategies that you learn from your art into your daily life then you are continually practicing and practicing in the most important environment of all, the world outside of the club. 99 % of people and situations you meet are unlikely to escalate to situation where you will need your phsyical skills. You are more likely to have to negotiate a day off or a pay rise at work than have to submit someone or fight them. Being a full time martial artist who earns a living from his or her art can sometimes be counter productive, I imagine as most of the people you would encounter would be trying to learn martial arts not to do other things.

The reason most people (including myself) is to explore themselves their abilities and improve in a physical, psychological and (maybe) spiritual sense.
In short to be better people.

vasch_ro

What makes martial arts a way of life is the "DO" factor for example
this is the difference between aiki-do and aiki jutsu
The term do being a japanese expression for the the way or the path , whereby the martial art is the path to self enlightment and is ingrained into the martial art fully
it is the point of the art , you become literally moving zen through skills developed in martial training , ibuki brathing etc Kata

To quote " the suffix "do" found in kendo judo and budo means "the way" "path" or "road" the same character is also pronounced "dao" in Mandarin and is most notably used for the Doaist Philosophy of Lao Zi, in the philosophical traditions the do became the way of life a path one travels while pursuing karates goal of pefection. The ideogram jutsu in Karate - jutsu meant art or science"

Thus the do martial arts transcended physical boundaries of combat and became a vehicle through which the japanese principle of wa ( harmony) was funneled, it becomes a way of life ..................

elivsvonchiaing

vasch_ro wrote:

What makes martial arts a way of life is the "DO" factor for example
this is the difference between aiki-do and aiki jutsu
The term do being a japanese expression for the the way or the path , whereby the martial art is the path to self enlightment and is ingrained into the martial art fully
it is the point of the art , you become literally moving zen through skills developed in martial training , ibuki brathing etc Kata

To quote " the suffix "do" found in kendo judo and budo means "the way" "path" or "road" the same character is also pronounced "dao" in Mandarin and is most notably used for the Doaist Philosophy of Lao Zi, in the philosophical traditions the do became the way of life a path one travels while pursuing karates goal of pefection. The ideogram jutsu in Karate - jutsu meant art or science"

Thus the do martial arts transcended physical boundaries of combat and became a vehicle through which the japanese principle of wa ( harmony) was funneled, it becomes a way of life ..................

It is difficult to equate Chinese martial arts which I believe were inferior until Bruce-Lee (Lee-Xaiphong - no pinyin attempted so don't even bother!) had his input on this. I think most of the posts so far make some kinda sense including this one. The idea of a westernised oath I really think sucks - we really need to understand each other better. I think martial arts should be thought with the language.

You probably don't deserve this - but Lao Zi I have a problem with. Lao Tzu. Lao Zhu. Lao Tzou but not Lao Zi. It was not his name anyhow- it merely means the old master. nokwtf who he was!

Seion

Walsingham's post was really excellent - bang on the money

Anyway . . .

What makes martial arts a way of life is the "DO" factor for example

This is a fairly widely held misconception. The Japanese make no distinction between the terms 'do' and 'jutsu'. The origin of this idea - that arts with 'do' after their name are less concerned with actual battlefield methods than those with 'jutsu' was a noted martial arts researcher and practitioner named Donn Draeger who wrote the first significant books on Japanese budo in English. It has become accepted fact in the west but it's not really true and if you discuss this with a Japanese budoka they will normally look at you strange.

'Do' does mean path, but 'jutsu' actually is best translated as method, rather than art or science. Art is 'gei', as in Bugei (also geisha - art person). I don't know what the word for science is in Japanese.

The term budo has been used interchangeably with bujutsu and bugei for many hundreds of years. Sometimes arts that use 'Do' are more concerned with spritual growth, but if they are that is usually just a coincidence - there are also some very old schools that use the term and which have no sporting or spiritual goal. It is also interesting to note that the term Judo was first used around two hundred years before Kano used it by another jujutsu school. Sorry if I sound pedantic, it's not my intention to patronise, and I'm sure you made your comments with the best of intentions.

On the subject of martial arts as a way of life, I would tend to agree with some of the earlier posters in this thread - martial arts can become a way of life and contribute enormously to people's quality of life, but so too can running, art and other avenues of human endeavor. (Although, I don't enjoy art or running, but I do enjoy martial arts, so that makes it more useful to me than those other avenues.)

The problem that unfortunately occurs is that many people in the west are basing their 'way of life' on a sort of mish mash of pop culture 'martial arts' philosophy that is found in many of the more established arts here. Much of this strikes me as rather strange and silly. It's also natural for people to become highly disillusioned with this when they cop on, and clever people almost always will.

I did TKD for a few years when I was younger but gave it up. I now want to do aikido. I don't want to spend years training in martial arts so I can smash someones face in. I'd prefer to train so I won't have to.

Dunno if Aikido will give you that but good luck. Id recommend being nicer to people, reading up on philosophy etc to achieve this. (Im an ex-aikido person so have some experience with this stuff!)

I had a broken arm once and my mother went to playfully punch me (I was slagging her), instinctively I blocked with my cast and I fractured her hand.

You flipped out and kicked your mothers ass! Nice. Thats what she gets for screwing with a ninja . (Real Ultimate Power- The Official Ninja Site

You don't need to say a silly americanised oath two times a week to be nice to people.

I agree. You also dont have to practice breaking joints to be nicer to people. Just be nicer to people. Smile a little more. It doesnt require fore-knowledge of throat strikes.

Most people join a martial arts club with the idea of ending up like Bruce Lee.
Someone who is supercool and take anyone, who can look after themselves no matter what.

I agree.

However the process of loading and firing an artillery piece and the other modern military endeavours that most engage in are to say the least brutal and mechanistic not to mention soul - less practices.

Its certainly easier to press a button rather than kill a man eyeball to eyeball. I think the idea of killing a man with your hands is so utterly repulsive that it sickens me that some martial arts talk about death and killing in such a nonchalant way.

There is yet to be an "ultimate" martial art.

I think there is (with regards to combat anyway). The "ultimate" martial art is the one that is formless. The art that takes what works and incorporates it. The art that knows to stylistic boundaries. Hand to hand- MMA. With sticks- the Dog brothers etc etc.

Your interaction with training partners in a club/dojo can help you to learn new ways of dealing with others and equip you with pscyhological tools for dealing with all manner of people.

I dont know if this is unique to martial arts per say. I think you are talking about social experience which can be obtained in any social activity.

Dealing with this kind of interaction where another takes on the role of aggressor can help you deal with this situation should it arise and playing the aggressor can help you to undersatnd the ritual and psychology of attack.

Dont know if I agree with this.

Training in a one - one manner commonly found in all martial arts also helps to develop your communications skills

Talking to people develops communication skills more effectively. Public speaking classes -even better.

and may ultimately develop into the ability to teach.

I think the ability to teach is engendered in some. Martial arts are merely a forum for this ability to present itself. You become a better teacher by opening yourself to criticism and seeking to improve everything you do.

The most important thing people can learn in martial arts has to be emotional control over themselves. The timid become more outgoing, the aggresive and angry more even tempered and those that are afraid a kind of inner strenght and confidence they never new they had.

I think this is true of most sport.

The reason most people (including myself) is to explore themselves their abilities and improve in a physical, psychological and (maybe) spiritual sense.

Why martial arts to do this though?

The problem that unfortunately occurs is that many people in the west are basing their 'way of life' on a sort of mish mash of pop culture 'martial arts' philosophy that is found in many of the more established arts here. Much of this strikes me as rather strange and silly. It's also natural for people to become highly disillusioned with this when they cop on, and clever people almost always will.

Great point. Clever people are also the ones who get really sucked into this kind of thinking and then become ultra-disillusioned. Its a similar phenomenon that occurs with cults.



Interesting posts. Keep em coming.

Bepetki

Okay folks,

Wanna know why I started? Bruce Lee - and I'm not ashamed to admit it. He was like a superhero in a normal man's body. Someone that even I could strive to emulate.

Then I got older. I learned more about the man. I started to study the books and even attended karate classes (most unusual for me, a very shy kid who never got involved with the 'normal' sports of soccer, GAA and rugby). Very quickly I learned that Hollywood/ Rank films, were just that... films. But there was more to Lee than the films. This made me more interested in him. My interest in him prompted me to study Martial Arts and even a little Asian philosophy and culture and history. I started to understand, if only a little, how Asian culture ticked. Needless to say I found it fascinating.

Then as a teenager, I started messing. Cigarettes, girls, booze, drugs... the usual deviations of the post-pubescant. I stopped training, became selfish and slovenly, and effectively hit out at the world. I would never change that, by the way. Being like that made me who I am today - and I like me.

I became really passionate about the Martial Arts. Every time I saw films like 'Enter the Dragon', or 'No retreat No surrender', I regressed to that little kid who watched Lee in 'Way of the Dragon' for the first time many years before. Simply put... I love the fantasy of Martial Art. It has taught me to respect the reality of the art.

Okay, so Lee was enveloped by the Western notions of marketing and show-casing his product. He was proud of what he knew. He was absolutely right that these skills should be shared with others - non-Asians to be precise. So what? He certainly didn't boomf it up with crap like the cheesy stuff you hear today. He said it as it was... philosophical - but always in relation to the art. He never deviated from that. He never implied that you can use JKD to help you wash the dishes more efficiently. He was simply separating the good from the bad and introducing the idea that a martial artist should not be constricted by thousands of years of tradition, rather that you should move because it feels right. Efficiency of movement and, to quote him, "Using no Way as Way". That was forward thinking from a guy who being strangled by the beast that he was trying to tame. He was progressive.

Well, I came back to this way of thinking myself after failing two Leaving Certs. I worked around in crappy jobs and was effectively going nowhere. So, after a while I got my ass in gear, and went back to training. I'm still lazy but it's a constant struggle. I'll never give up though. I wouldn't be me if I did.

One day, a few years ago, myself and my girlfriend were at home. Two guys walked in to our flat off the street, with hoods over their heads. One had a blood filled syringe, the other a very large screwdriver. They wanted money "for drugs" no less. I wasn't prepared to fight them. I put my hands up and (quite calmly) said "take what you want". My girlfriend however erupted... started throwing money on the floor and shouting at them. They didn't need this and neither did I so I calmed her right down. We sat and stayed quiet.

I thought that they'd just take what they wanted and go but they didn't. They had been there for about ten minutes at this stage threatening us and throwing stuff. I was becoming agitated and was worried that they would become violent. I started to work on being calm. Then i worked on translating this calmness to the junkies. I let them know that I was no threat. In fact, I got them on my side in a strange way. This was my first lesson in the psychology of combat. I presented my girlfriend as the threat, and that "if it's okay with you lads, pals, mates, I'll deal with her". This was a defense mechanism to protect her. Sounds silly here, but it makes a lot of sense in a tense stand off.

I want you to try and imagine about how difficult this was for us. At least imagine yourselves in my shoes. Your girlfriend is sitting down, terrified, and two guys are threatening to kill both of you unless you give them money. I was constantly surveying my options - weighing up the 'what-ifs". Up to that point, there had been no way out.

A short time later the two lads were rifling through my girlfriends bag when I saw an opportunity. Their heads were hunched over this bag and I figured that I should go up and tag one guy - stun him - and then work the other guy. Then, return to the first fella and take him out and back to the second etc... Well, I went to stand up and....

... nothing. I couldn't. I was so fearful that I would endanger my girlfriend first that I didn't have the will to kick it off. Most importantly... Training in Martial Arts taught me that self defence should only be used in a LAST RESORT situation. That opportunity I had was not last resort. While I could, I decided that I wouldn't do anything unless it was LAST RESORT. Nothing happened. They stayed for another ten minutes (about 20 in total) and locked us into the bedroom and left. They got away with £27.00. My girlfriend and I were safe. And I learned the most important lesson in my life - or rather, a combination of lessons.

1 'Street' situations are so dynamic that you must learn some self-control to even BE in a situation of relative control. Your primal fear is so strong, that it dominates you for longer than you would like to believe.
2 Never attack in rage or blindly. You WILL die.
3 Never try to be the hero. You will be wounded. THINK. Someone you love will be wounded - or god forbid - worse.
4 Do what you are told in such situations. At least give your attacker the presumption of control.
5 ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT A TECHNIQUE MAY WORK WELL IN TRAINING (Including BJJ might I add). THIS DOES NOT GUARANTEE THAT IT WILL WORK IN A LIVE SITUATION.

I wish I could have done more justice to the situation we faced that cold night on the 8th December 1998. I will never forget it and neither will my girlfriend. If anything, it has strengthened my resolve to pursue the Martial Arts with renewed vigour. I can only say this... having a knowledge of the Martial Arts carried myself and my girlfriend safely through the arms of that night. It taught me self-control. It taught me that I need to remain calm to survive. It taught me that I don't know enough! I dread to ponder the alternatives.

I suppose in a round-about way, having watched Bruce all those years ago, may well have saved my life and that of my girlfriend. I know it sounds corny and a little fantastic, but I know what it lead to. If anything, what he had done in his short 33 years on Earth, should be respected. I know I do. I am sure I'm not the only one.

Apologies for the long post... I may have gotten slightly carried away

Bepetki.

Its amazing how such a situation can invoke feelings of helplessness and anger. Also the effect of adrenaline can never be underestimated. Thats why, in my eyes, you have to pressure test yourself as much as possible. Just so you can learn to deal with that adrenaline!!

Bepetki,

Pardon me if this sounds offensive, but do you train harder so that some day you can find those guys and kick their asses for putting you and your girlfriend through that. Is that thinking present even on some level?

Bepetki

columok wrote:

Pardon me if this sounds offensive, but do you train harder so that some day you can find those guys and kick their asses for putting you and your girlfriend through that. Is that thinking present even on some level?

That's not offensive in the slightest. To be honest, those guys never cross my mind anymore. I'm cool with it. I handled the best way i could and I've left it at that.

However, for a few days after the attack I went through the range of emotions. First - utter fear and vulnerability. Secondly - total anger and need for revenge. Third - anger at myself. Fourth - anger at those who said "you should've done this and you shoulda done that". That riled me. There were several people I know, who are tough in their own little worlds, who kept telling me that they would have killed them etc. I never claim to be tough, physically that is, but I know that even a 'tough guy' would have been in trouble that night.

I now know that the best possible permutation (and believe me I've gone through them all) was the safe outcome of, firstly my girtlfriend, and secondly me. That happened because I made it happen. I'm proud of myself for staying calm and dealing with these guys. My girlfriend also says it. She has sleepless nights imagining the outcome had i not been there. And I had only arrived home ten minutes prior to their entry! She was in the bath. She really does get freaked out about this. I don't blame her. Also, I am confident that these guys would not have hesitated to use their weapons. By the way, I was not as afraid of the syringe as I was of the screw driver. It was as good as a knife. Don't forget to that we were holed up in a flat. There was nowhere to run. Little room for f**k ups.

Like I say, I am content with the outcome. We're safe, more alert and better for the experience, believe it or not! That's why when I train, I train with that experience in mind. I'm not afraid of having to deal with that situation any more. I'll know that I can be calm. Would you like to know that you could be calm?

If I saw them on the street I wouldn't recognise them as they were wearing hoods. Well one guy took his off and the other guy FREAKED at him! But having said that, even if I did, I would calmly walk past him. Then I would follow the muthaf**ka down an alley and tear him limb from li... just kidding!

I couldn't care less. It don't bother me no more.

pearsquasher

I know its sort of immaterial but what dod they get away with?

I'm thinking .....its worth doing what you did to lose a video and say, 50 quid or whatever. Well done.

Another thing is the whole excessive force issue........ imagine you killed one of them accidenly and ended up in gaol? just cos some prick pciks your gaf and you lost control.

PhoenixRising

Bepetki wrote:

Okay folks,

Wanna know why I started? Bruce Lee - and I'm not ashamed to admit it. He was like a superhero in a normal man's body. Someone that even I could strive to emulate.

[.........]

Apologies for the long post... I may have gotten slightly carried away

Bepetki.

Good post Bepetki. You sound like you have your head screwed on right. That's definitely the type of attitude/approach that I'd like to see more people in the martial arts take. Common sense should always prevail and not some hero or invincibility complex.

Walsingham

columok wrote:

Its amazing how such a situation can invoke feelings of helplessness and anger. Also the effect of adrenaline can never be underestimated. Thats why, in my eyes, you have to pressure test yourself as much as possible. Just so you can learn to deal with that adrenaline!!

Bepetki,

Pardon me if this sounds offensive, but do you train harder so that some day you can find those guys and kick their asses for putting you and your girlfriend through that. Is that thinking present even on some level?

I think that anyone who encounters a situation like that and comes away unscathed has done well. No matter who you are, you are going to experience fear. There are three types of people,

1.People who worry before and incident, and then perform okay
2.People who have no worry beforehand and then go to pieces
3.People who perform ok and then go to pieces afterwards.

In my book, Bepetki you are in the first category. Martial arts should be more than a collection of techniques. They should encourage an attitude as well.
Martial arts were primarily designed to help people to survive. As long as you survive you have performed as you should. You showed all the characteristics that martial arts should encourage and do not let anyone tell you otherwise.