Should Cannabis be made legal.

AngelofFire

I for one believe that it should be legalised, Cannabis in its pure form is less of a danger to health than existing drugs such as alcohol and tobacco, it also has proven medical benefits, it is able and is used to treat Multiple sclerosis,arthreitis and epilepsey(i know its already available for medicinal purposes).

I do not accept the flawed argument that cannabis leads to harder drugs.Legalising it would seperate its users from the hard drugs market,making it much less likely that cannabis users would turn to heroin.The Netherlands has the lowest rate of heroin usage in Europe.

Legalising it would also deal a huge blow to organised crime gangsters who make millions each year from selling it each year,more police resources could be used to tackle heroin dealers as a result.Cannabis could also be taxed and the revenue could be used to treat existing heroin addicts.

It is grossly hypocritical of irish society that Cannabis is illegal yet a more dangerous drug tobacco is sold in nearly every newsagent.In my view the only reason why Cannabis is illegal is because of Paranoid Scapegoating,Scaremongering and Contrived association with Coccaine,Heroin,etc.

Flukey

It should be legalised only for the purposes of controlling it and regulating it and taking some of the dealing out.

Lennoxschips

I grew up in the Netherlands and have seen enough school mates become unmotivated no-brainers from cannabis in it's "pure form" (that's what they sell over here). It is also my experience in the Netherlands that the legalisation of the drug exposes the drug to more people than would otherwise be exposed. There is a reason that cannabis usage in the Netherlands is higher than anywhere else.

I do not accept the flawed argument that cannabis leads to harder drugs.

It's just that everyone on coke and heroin started out on cannabis. I guess that's just a coincidende then.

The Netherlands has the lowest rate of heroin usage in Europe.

This is due to methadone being administered by the government as a safer alternative for heroin addicts trying to kick the habit and the proper funding of clinics for people kicking the habit. (These are government policies I support.) Nothing to do with cannabis being legal.

Legalising it would also deal a huge blow to organised crime gangsters who make millions each year from selling it each year

Amsterdam is the organised crime capital of Northern Europe.

Cannabis in its pure form is less of a danger to health than existing drugs such as alcohol and tobacco

That's just a lie. When smoked, cannabis is just as toxic, if not more toxic, to the lungs than tobacco. Cannabis also can impair a person driving a car, as with alcohol. But worse still, cannabis can also can trigger schizophrenia in people that are genetically vulnerable to the disease, but who would have otherwise not developed it. Like my sister. I'm sorry, but cannabis is a nasty piece of work and I'm fed up of people romanticising it as something harmless.

I don't accept the fallacious argument that the legality of tobacco and alcohol inherently makes the case for the legalisation of cannabis. These drugs are legal now because they were used before people knew about the dangers involved, and their usage was unfortunately allowed to spread to epidemic proportions. Going down the same road with cannabis as was done with alcohol and tobacco, knowing full well the dangers involved, would be stupid, seeing as we still have the chance to nip it in the bud. (no pun intended) If anything, when, with hindsight, we look at the burden that alcohol and tobacco inflict on modern society, it should make a case for not legalising cannabis and not letting it spread to similar, epidemic proportions.

l3rian

I grew up in the Netherlands and have seen enough school mates become unmotivated no-brainers from cannabis in it's "pure form" (that's what they sell over here).

no brainers in your opinion only, and have you seen the dirty poisonous filth called soapbarhash they sell over here?

It's just that everyone on coke and heroin started out on cannabis. I guess that's just a coincidende then.

everyone? :rolleyes: generalizations. Education is the key to prevent crackheads

Amsterdam is the organised crime capital of Northern Europe.

You know what he means: if legalised here, the black market in soapbarhash will disappear

When smoked, cannabis is just as toxic, if not more toxic, to the lungs than tobacco.

That's just a lie. I cough my lungs up when smoking tobacco or soapbarhash. But I breath easy when smoking proper cannabis

If anything, when, with hindsight, we look at the burden that alcohol and tobacco inflict on modern society, it should make a case for not legalising cannabis and not letting it spread to similar, epidemic proportions.

another self righteous do-gooder voting for the nanny state :rolleyes:

Xterminator

I think it should be legalised for 2 main reasons.

1. I think a person sould be allowed to choose whether or not they take poisons like tobacco, alcohol and cannabis, within reason. I dont think criminalising the personal use of socially unacceptable poisons (while allowing socially acceptabe ones such as drink and tobacco) is the way to go. I would rather see education to the risks, and use restricted to controlled areas, and acceptable dosages. And because the industry would not be controlled by scumbags, you could have quality controls in place.

2. The 'war on drugs' is lost.The drug barons are making a killing selling hash, and other 'recreational' drugs. If the government legalised the sale of cannabis, they could insist on minumin standards, and tax the product raing funds that can be spent on police-ing and health and education etc.

At the same time they would be removing the main source of income for many dealers, and it is the vast sums of money these poeple control that makes them so powerful.

Finall

Beruthiel

Lennoxschips wrote:

It's just that everyone on coke and heroin started out on cannabis. I guess that's just a coincidende then

so are you saying here that everyone who smokes hash is going to automatically move onto coke and heroin? Do you realise what a b/s statement that is? That's like saying that someone who drinks a glass of wine will automatically become a wino
Not everyone is a moron you know

Zulu

l3rian wrote:

That's just a lie. I cough my lungs up when smoking tobacco or soapbarhash. But I breath easy when smoking proper cannabis
[/IMG]

Unfortunately it's not a lie. You don't "cough your lungs up" because of the effect the drug has on you. Smoke inhalation of any kind is extremely bad for your lungs. Cannabis contains tar, carbon monoxide, and a feast of other carcinogenic chemicals which are very very bad for your health. He's not lying; you are in fact mistaken.

midget lord

AngelofFire wrote:

It is grossly hypocritical of irish society that Cannabis is illegal yet a more dangerous drug tobacco is sold in nearly every newsagent.

Utter, utter tripe.


Cannabis is proven to have many adverse psychological effects.

I had a problem with cannabis and decided after much deliberation that I would give it up two and a half years ago. My short term memory is still effected but I feel that I am over the worst of it, and believe me it was difficult.

During my smoking period I frequently changed jobs, took a two year ‘break’ from college and ran up a lot of debts (also helped by a spongy girlfriend). I had absolutely no motivation and all I wanted to do was sit at home, smoke lots of joints, pipes, bongs etc and play the playstation.

Last month I made the final repayment on the debts I accumulated and I am trying to repair the damage it done to my credit rating with the ICB.

My point here is that a lot of the side effects are purely psychological so in that regard can be quite hard to quantify, but believe me, they exist. If cannabis is legalised (and it wont be, not with the change of public opinion on smoking) we will see a lot more college drop outs, unemployment will rise and so too will taxes as paying for more unemployed, and the health system needing more money will mean that our nice 28k @ 20% will be no longer, back to the outrageous 27% of the early 90’s!!

midget lord

On the plus side, nobody can beat me at This is football...

Paladin

I smoke hash and Ive been to the netherlands to smoke their hash. (Netherlands quality is better obviously). I wouldn't at this point advocate the legalising of hash. Its (relatively) easy to get as is, but I would agree with the british police that people with small amounts of hash (a few grams) should not be prosecuted.

Also I know someone just like you midget lord, in the way that you wasted time smoking accumulating debt. In general I don't agree with attributing that kind of thing purely to drugs (your specific case I have no comment). In my friends case he is just a gobshíte without the willpower, work ethetic or sense to avoid ****ing things up (although he is getting things on track now) and in most cases like you described it is the persons own fault that they are a waster, a state they would have achieved with or without hash (imho).

How many waster hash heads do people here know? Loads? How many are wasters regardless of the drug? Most? All? None!?!??! Yeah right.

lisa.c

cannabis is a personal choice and becomming a scumbag is a personal choice. you choose to become a waster. smoking cannabis dosent make you a waster you become a waster cause thats how you want to be... i know a guy that has smoked hash every day for twenty odd years and trust me he smokes a lot about 15 to 20 joints a day and all the time he has never once chosen to become a loser and sponge of the state or even use harder drugs. he has his own buisness and works hard to provide every thing for his family. they never have to pay for a thing and holiday abroad every year....

swiss

The great cannabis debate returns.

I believe that there are certain privileges that should only be conferred onto a society once it can be demonstrably be shown that that society can responsibly handle those privileges. In the case of cannabis, I believe that this boils down to whether the harm that abuse of this drug causes to certain people, were it to be legalised must be weighed against the liberty conferred to people by allowing them to indulge in the habit.

This decision is obviously not mine to make, but at this present time, I believe that the benefits associated with cannabis; it's relaxation value, it's ability to allow one to experience different states of mind and it's medicinal value does not outweigh the drawbacks that I believe would accompany it's legalisation. In this case abuse of cannabis entails lethargy and a consequent lack of interests in other pursuits, addiction (albeit a milder form than tobacco addiction) and it's tendency to lead people onto more addictive substances. I have witnessed these impacts personally on people I know who used, and probably still use cannabis frequently.

I cannot comment on the long term medical effects of cannabis usage as I am not a doctor nor do I have any sort of extensive knowledge in this field. However, I cannot imagine the overall effect to be healthy. I do not base my opposition to cannabis on health grounds, but I would be interested in finding out more about the medical effects of cannabis from unbiased reference sites.

Zulu

lisa.c wrote:

cannabis is a personal choice and becomming a scumbag is a personal choice. you choose to become a waster. smoking cannabis dosent make you a waster you become a waster cause thats how you want to be... i know a guy that has smoked hash every day for twenty odd years and trust me he smokes a lot about 15 to 20 joints a day and all the time he has never once chosen to become a loser and sponge of the state or even use harder drugs. he has his own buisness and works hard to provide every thing for his family. they never have to pay for a thing and holiday abroad every year....

Thats a little simplistic. Some people have more willpower than others.Society need to look to the weak, otherwise it will fall in the ruin.
Who are the scumbags?
As for the waster argument. I personally believed that I could smoke everyday and have no impact on my life. That was a complete fallacy. Sure I could keep a job, but I had no motivation. When I gave up, I became far better at my work.
Some people can't give up. We need to think about these people.

midget lord

lisa.c wrote:

cannabis is a personal choice and becomming a scumbag is a personal choice. you choose to become a waster. smoking cannabis dosent make you a waster you become a waster cause thats how you want to be... i know a guy that has smoked hash every day for twenty odd years and trust me he smokes a lot about 15 to 20 joints a day and all the time he has never once chosen to become a loser and sponge of the state or even use harder drugs. he has his own buisness and works hard to provide every thing for his family. they never have to pay for a thing and holiday abroad every year....

If only everything was this simple.




"when i grow up i want to be a waster"


Puuuhhhhhleeeaasssseeee.



I would also imagine that your friend is an exception to the rule, i doubt there are too many 'successful' business men out there smoking 10-15 joints a day, unless their business is smuggling.

muffen

I don't think cannabis should be legalized, but I do believe minor possession should be allowed (say upto 5 grams, you only loose it, no penalty should be associated with it).

Dealing should still be disallowed.

I personally lived in the Netherlands for 3,5 years, and I think it worked pretty well there.
I don't think you can say that cannabis leads to heavier drugabuse, because if you want to go down that route, almost everyone who smokes cannabis started with alcohol and tobacco. Following that logic, alcohol and tobacco leads to heavier drugabuse. Also, because a lot of dealers carry a large variety of drugs, its easy to get it once you get cannabis. If the cannabis laws weren't that strict, dealers might change to dealing just cannabis, and thereby not making it easier to get other stuff.

In any case, we can see that in the Netherlands, there are fewer heavy drugabusers than there is in Ireland (counted in % of population), yet more people smoke weed in the Netherlands.

I think it should be decriminalized because of the amount of people that smoke it. Is it really right to make 10% (just throwing out a number here) of your population into criminals, when they aren't directly hurting anyone else.

The reason I don't think it should be completly legal is because it does affect your motivation after a prolonged usage (I know alcohol does the same, but is one bad drug a good reason to introduce another one?).

In the end, I belive in free choice, as long as you don't harm anyone else. I know that you can indirectly harm other people, but I think that with cannabis thats only a minor issue as most people tend to be very calm when smoking.

So, decriminalizing is a good "meeting point". You tolerate certain usage, while still showing that is might not be good for you.

Lennoxschips

The people I knew at school who smoked Dutch strength cannabis daily:

Two are now cleaning dishes at restaurants.
One has had three go's at his first year in college.
Two are unemployed and spend most of their time at the hash bar.
And then there's my sister who developed schizophrenia. Link.

So please don't insult my intelligence call me a "self righteous do-gooder voting for the nanny state."

Lennoxschips

2. The 'war on drugs' is lost.The drug barons are making a killing selling hash, and other 'recreational' drugs. If the government legalised the sale of cannabis, they could insist on minumin standards, and tax the product raing funds that can be spent on police-ing and health and education etc.

At the same time they would be removing the main source of income for many dealers, and it is the vast sums of money these poeple control that makes them so powerful.

This sounds nice in theory, but in practice it just doesn't happen. Once again: Amsterdam is the organised crime capital of Europe. Do you think that when cannabis is legalised that it will suddenly be grown by farmers and distributed through legal channels? No, it will still come from the same people, who will now make even more vast sums of money by being able to sell even more and with less of a chance of being caught. This is what happened in the Netherlands and this is why all the other countries in the western world are less than enthusiastic in following their example.

lisa.c

lennoxchips what will we do bring out the violins.... so you have had bad experiances with hash what do you want us to do...

zulu if people want to waste there lives on cannabis and other drugs then let them its there choice you choose to give up cause it interfeared with your job.. more power to ya.

people who use drugs full time in my opionion are complete wasters, just like my friend but if a waster can hold his own and live a decent life then ill respect them for doing that, but if some one wastes there whole life worrying about how many hours it is til dole day so they can buy drugs then screw them there a nuiscence and why give a damm about them they have choosen to live a **** life... drugs wont make your life **** unless you want it to.

as for will power i got crap willpower so i have the common sense not to use drugs other wise i to would become a waster..

my point being if you want to use grugs and become a waster then p'iss off i dont want to know ya
if you want to use drugs and be a honest hard working person then come on in for tea. i respect ya man.

midget lord

lisa.c wrote:

my point being if you want to use grugs and become a waster then p'iss off i dont want to know ya
if you want to use drugs and be a honest hard working person then come on in for tea. i respect ya man.

:rolleyes:

muffen

Lennoxschips wrote:

The people I knew at school who smoked Dutch strength cannabis daily:

Two are now cleaning dishes at restaurants.
One has had three go's at his first year in college.
Two are unemployed and spend most of their time at the hash bar.
And then there's my sister who developed schizophrenia. Link.

So please don't insult my intelligence call me a "self righteous do-gooder voting for the nanny state."

There are lots of horror-stories, and you can find the worst in everything. There are people who "waste" their lives playing online games... heck, there are even people addicted to sending SMS messages. I say waste in quotes because, in the end, what if they are really happy doing it. They might not be productive members of society, but that might also not be their goal. If they are happy smoking and just kinda hanging about, and if they can keep that life going by doing dishes, then so be it. They might even be happier than you or me... again.. I truly believe in free choice.

I want to tell you my cannabis experience.
I smoked for about 5 years, started when I lived in London, and for the first 4 years, I only smoked on weekends... probably averaged three joints a month.
In those four years, I took four courses at a university, while working full time... my job was something most people would consider really good, and my pay was atleast twice the average in the country.

However, the last year or so I started to really dislike my job, and all my friends started moving away ... needless to say, I was bored to death. I smoked pretty much a joint a day for a year, and it really kept the boredom away. I still had the same job, and I was still doing just as well at work .. although I have to admit I had some troubles getting up in the mornings.

Finally, I got the chance to move to another job. When I made the move, I decided to stop smoking completly. I haven't smoked for about half a year now, and I can say that the only difference I've really noticed is that I feel a little bit more awake now... and I'm not as "slow" in my head as I was when I smoked alot.
I do kinda regret smoking as much as I did the last year, but in the end I think that it was thanks to smoking that I actually found my existence tolerable and was able to keep up with the very demanding job.

I don't think that I'll be smoking ever again.. and although this isn't something I have decided, I just don't feel the need to anymore. I like my new job, and it is a very good job.. I'm sure that my salary is still close to double the average salary. My job is actually something my company created for me.. it didn't even exist until I talked to them and told them I wanted to move... and all this was done while smoking pretty heavily.

I still think that if you want to smoke, then it should be your choice to do so, and based on my experince, I know that you can smoke everyday and still keep up with a demading job.

Zulu

lisa.c wrote:

people who use drugs full time in my opionion are complete wasters, just like my friend but if a waster can hold his own and live a decent life then ill respect them for doing that, but if some one wastes there whole life worrying about how many hours it is til dole day so they can buy drugs then screw them there a nuiscence and why give a damm about them they have choosen to live a **** life... drugs wont make your life **** unless you want it to.

They are also member of our society. Do you wish to use your taxes to support them? or would you rather see more tax money being channeled into health care?

lisa.c

Zulu wrote:

They are also member of our society. Do you wish to use your taxes to support them? or would you rather see more tax money being channeled into health care?

why should my taxes be used to support them why should any ones????
i work a full week for the pathetic min wage and let me tell you the money is crap. but do i go and wallow my sorrows in drugs no i get on with it and accept it. ya i could stop working and claim every god damm benfit going but i dont. ya pump my taxes in to athen once its not supporting drug addicts who cant bother to get a job and earn an honest living....

midget lord

lisa.c wrote:

why should my taxes be used to support them why should any ones????

Do you have any swastika tatoo's?

lisa.c

why are you happy to pay high taxes so people can spunge of your earings to.... god you deserve a noble prize for humanities and generosities

midget lord

Its part of living in modern society. Not all people on the dole are spongers, some are unlucky i.e made redundant, some just cant work at all. Your idea of not wanting to pay taxes so it wont make its way to a stoner on the dole is rediculous. Would you like to seperate those that are stoners and not pay them any unemployment benefit? Sounds a tad nazi-ish to me...

Zulu

lisa.c wrote:

why should my taxes be used to support them why should any ones????
i work a full week for the pathetic min wage and let me tell you the money is crap. but do i go and wallow my sorrows in drugs no i get on with it and accept it. ya i could stop working and claim every god damm benfit going but i dont. ya pump my taxes in to athen once its not supporting drug addicts who cant bother to get a job and earn an honest living....

Well, if you want to legalise hash, you have to accept that there will be an increase in unemployment. You tax will be used to support these people.
Or if there isn't a rise in unemployment, then unemployed people who smoke hash will be lass motivated to find new work. Either way it'll absorbe some of your tax.
Again I ask the question: are you prepared to support, financally, the legalisation of hash?

echomadman

man i said i'd never post in one of these threads again....

but

I smoke every day, i occasionally smoke a lot I have done for nearly 10 years now ,I run my own business, do long hours, and amazingly .. I'm not addicted to heroin or putting an intolerable strain on our beleagured health board, what are the odds eh? :rolleyes:

and it's tendency to lead people onto more addictive substances

I hate this fallacy, its having to buy ****e hash off scumbags that leads to harder drugs, as they're the ones who sell them.
If it was decriminalised, and i could grow one or two plants for personal consumption without fear of criminal prosecution, i'd never have to do and deal with anto, macca, sla or whatever knack is peddling low quality adulterated soapbar crap this week

Zulu

lisa.c wrote:

why are you happy to pay high taxes so people can spunge of your earings to.... god you deserve a noble prize for humanities and generosities

Why thanks, but personally I feel like I don't deserve anything other that a decent standard of living - like everyone else in this world. I feel I have a duty of responsibility to the society I'm a part of. I'm happy to pay high taxes, because I'm happy to help make this world a better place.

Majority of people don't "spunge", majority of people want to stand up for themselves and make a better life for themselves, by themselves.

lisa.c

ok put it this way
I DONT WANT MY TAXES SUPPORTING DRUG ADDICTS THAT ARE ON THE DOLE CAUSE THEY ARE TO LAZY TO WORK A DECENT JOB..

I AM ALL FOR MY TAXES SUPPORTING OLD PEOPLE DISABLED PEOPLE REDUNDANT PEOPLE AND ANY ONE WHO FOR GENUINE REASONS CANT WORK.

lisa.c

well said echomadman. and fair deuce to ya to....

Zulu

lisa.c wrote:

ok put it this way
I DONT WANT MY TAXES SUPPORTING DRUG ADDICTS THAT ARE ON THE DOLE CAUSE THEY ARE TO LAZY TO WORK A DECENT JOB..

I AM ALL FOR MY TAXES SUPPORTING OLD PEOPLE DISABLED PEOPLE REDUNDANT PEOPLE AND ANY ONE WHO FOR GENUINE REASONS CANT WORK.

Thanks for using capital letters - I didn't understand you until now. :rolleyes:

How do you intend to ensure where your taxes are going? - You can't. Your taxes go into goverenment coffers, and get divided according to the budget.

...Unless you want to get rid of the dole altogether?

lisa.c

Zulu wrote:

Well, if you want to legalise hash, you have to accept that there will be an increase in unemployment. You tax will be used to support these people.
Or if there isn't a rise in unemployment, then unemployed people who smoke hash will be lass motivated to find new work. Either way it'll absorbe some of your tax.
Again I ask the question: are you prepared to support, financally, the legalisation of hash?

zulu i love the way you qoute every one so please quote me on where i said that cannabis should be leagalised

lisa.c

god zulu your posts just get better and better..
i said i dont want them to go to drug spongers but what can i do. do you think im stupid enough that i think i can choose where my taxes go to..

Zulu

lisa.c wrote:

cannabis is a personal choice and becomming a scumbag is a personal choice. you choose to become a waster. smoking cannabis dosent make you a waster you become a waster cause thats how you want to be... i know a guy that has smoked hash every day for twenty odd years and trust me he smokes a lot about 15 to 20 joints a day and all the time he has never once chosen to become a loser and sponge of the state or even use harder drugs. he has his own buisness and works hard to provide every thing for his family. they never have to pay for a thing and holiday abroad every year....

Fair enough - you never stated you wanted it legalised, but then - I never said you did either. On the other hand, in relation to this thread, you don't appear to be against it. Your arguments tend to be pro legalisation.

By-the-by, I quote people, so then can tell where I'm comming from - as opposed to making random comments which lead to uninformed arguments.

midget lord

lisa.c wrote:

god zulu your posts just get better and better..
i said i dont want them to go to drug spongers but what can i do. do you think im stupid enough that i think i can choose where my taxes go to..

yes.

Zulu

lisa.c wrote:

god zulu your posts just get better and better..
i said i dont want them to go to drug spongers but what can i do. do you think im stupid enough that i think i can choose where my taxes go to..

Ok - just so we're all clear: You do not want to see canabis legalised. Is that correct?

lisa.c

i dont have a problem with cannabis ive lived with it all my life i dont use it cause well why would i want to. my argument was when someone mentioned that it will lead to every cannabis user progressing to harder drugs. well that statement was wrong and inaccurate. so is there a problem with me disagreeing with that...

tribble

I just made the most delicious cookies in the whole wide world...

I see this as more of a civil liberties issue.
If taking (eating/smoking whatever) cannabis does not cause harm to people other than the taker then what business does the government have banning it?
(No, that the economy would suffer is not a reason, our economy would do better if we didn't have to pay the darkies either :rolleyes: )

It can exacerbate (sp?) laziness, which is fair enough but some people simply lose all motovation leave the house - this is definatly bad, but it's an issue to be sorted out on a local level (friends, family etc) not at a governmental one.

tribble

lisa.c

to be quite frank zulu
its none of your buisness!

Zulu

Whats none of my business? :eek:
Are you ok?

swiss

Originally posted by midget lord:

Do you have any swastika tatoo's?

I invoke Goodwin's Law.

On a similar note, to all posters; keep snide comments to yourselves, ad hominem attacks are not tolerated on this board.

Originally posted by Echomadman:

I hate this fallacy, its having to buy ****e hash off scumbags that leads to harder drugs,

I don't dispute that this is a contributory factor, but there are always going to be elements in society that will seek bigger thrills, a bigger "hit" and attempt to become more "hardcore". The current situation simply makes it easier to migrate to harder substances. Who is to say this observation is a fallacy?

I don't begrudge you your smoke, the entire crux of my argument was that while in principle I have no problem with the use of cannabis, I have problems with it's abuse. For every responsible individual who is capable of differentiating the line between use and abuse there are going to be people who are unwilling or incapable of making that differentiation. My main dilemma was wondering whether it was worth sacrificing those individual freedoms if it helped stop people falling into the drugs trap, and I eventually tentatively decided that it was worth those sacrifices for the greater good.

Perhaps I need to examine the Netherlands model more closely in order to make that determination, but from what I have heard, the legalisation of drugs have created as many problems as freedoms in that country. I would not like to see the same happen here. We have a large enough criminal and drugs problem, thank you.

lisa.c

Zulu wrote:

Ok - just so we're all clear: You do not want to see canabis legalised. Is that correct?

Zulu wrote:

Again I ask the question: are you prepared to support, financally, the legalisation of hash?

its none of your business

Zulu

Zulu wrote:

Ok - just so we're all clear: You do not want to see canabis legalised. Is that correct?

HA! I got negative reputation points for this comment. :rolleyes: Good to see they are being put to use correctly. Thanks for that.

ferdi

DECRIMINALISE NOW

i am studying to better myself and to give myself a future

i work and pay my taxes

i dont ask for any money from the state

i drink once in a blue moon

i never cause any trouble to anyone

yet i am a criminal for choosing to spend my free time in a certain way

up until 1993 if someone chose to engage in homosexual activities, they were also classed as a criminal...and yet we look back at that now and think how stupid the law was in viewing gay people who wanted to express themselves in an intimate way with another human being as criminals....

people who smoke cannabis dont like the fact that they have to use dodgy methods to get it and are empowering organised criminals by buying it, if there was an alternative, most of them would take it.

once again i say - DECRIMINALISE!!!

if u want to clamp down on a drug, go after alcohol - 1 in 3 people in ireland have a somes sort of drink related problem.

Chopper

Hi Guys,

Although this is a subject dear to my heart I am not going to join in the debate here since I have been down this road many times. Needless to say I am in favor of government controls and not blanket criminalisation of the general public for what is IMHO a personal lifestyle choice.

Please refer to http://www.CannabisIreland.com/ for some interesting localised information relating to legalisation in Ireland.

¬
Chopper

Paladin

[Apologies for side note:]
Never argue with someone who ignores the very existance of punctuation, capitilisation, grammar, sense and clarity. Its makes reading threads difficult when half the posts are a strain on the interpreting centres of the brain.

For goodness sake Lisa.C (lisa.c), there is little difficult with making english text coherent without earning a Booker prize.
[/End Of Side Note]

Having been to Amsterdam I believe that comparing that model for the legalisation of cannabis to the possible reality of another country legalising cannabis is hugely misleading. Whilst it is the only real working model in the first world there are many mitigating factors that impact negatively upon the model.

Since cannabis is illegal throughout Europe dealers find it convenient to use Holland as a centre of distribution, something that would not happen if cannabis was legal throughout Europe. This contributes to the existance of organised crime there.

The culture in the country is very different to the culture in Britain, Ireland, Germany even. The legalisation of cannabis would have different effects on different cultures.
I fear that Ireland has demonstrated with alchohol that we can be very self destructive.
At the same time I dont believe is a strict nanny state with cannabis, so if someone makes the choice they want to use cannabis, either responsibly or otherwise, they should not be prosecuted for possessing small amounts. I just fear what would happen to the country if we legalised cannabis on our own (not going to happen).

If there is ever a cannabis legalisation debate for more countries of europe, I really think it would be better to have a blanket EU law, legal or not, to avoid another drug/distribution centre like Amsterdam. If its legal everywhere this will be avoided. However for the moment the Netherlands have their cake...(or brownies).

lisa.c

Apolagies Paladin! I'm terribly sorry that I am not as punctually intelligent as 'you' appear to be. I will in future(and I mean this) include punctuation, and all them other important marks that are presently present in our english text.

I've been smoking cannabis for roughly twelve years on and off. I'm not what you would call a stoner as such. I get stoned very very quickly, and have no need or desire to smoke more than a joint a day (I smoke maybe two/three days a week). In fact, its only on my regular trips to Amsterdam that I would partake in amounts of three/four joints a day.

Saying that, since I've been smoking for years, the majority of my friends smoke cannabis. Some moreso than others. Some have their own businesses, some are students, and some are approaching the waster mentality. Its a matter of choice. They've chosen the amount of cannabis to smoke to fit where they want to be in life. And they haven't moved on to harder drugs. For my own history, I started on speed, and micro-dots prior to trying cannabis. I only smoke cannabis now. In fact, none of my friends have moved from cannabis to harder drugs. There's no need.

Cannabis is a relaxant. It definetly won't help you to get laid, but its nice after work to get stoned a bit, watch the news, have dinner, etc. Its a welcome relief from the pressures from the day. And to this date, I have only one bad experience from Cannabis. Lol. And thats due to liberal amounts of drink being mixed.

Cannabis on its own is perfectly ok. It doesn't make you aggressive like Drink does, nor does it give you a hangover. Its alot cheaper (while being illegal) than alcohol, and doesn't cause liver damage. While it does have diseases associated with it, mainly these are associated due to the tobacco used in the joint. (Which you can avoid, by using pure smokes/pipes etc)

For my part, I prefer the effects of cannabis to drink, and I prefer the affect it has on other people as opposed to the crowds of drunk guys on a saturday night.

In regards to Amsterdam, I have never had a problem there. It's the only city I have ever been in that I haven't got freaked out by being alone late at night ****ed off my face. Ireland? I'd be very wary. the UK, more wary of trouble. Amsterdam? Love it. Might be the organised crime centre of Europe, but stoners don't cause trouble. Stoners want to have a good buzz and be nice.

And I agree totally with Paladin abt the difference between Holland and Ireland.

So for me, legalise it all the way.

midget lord

up until 1993 if someone chose to engage in homosexual activities, they were also classed as a criminal...and yet we look back at that now and think how stupid the law was in viewing gay people who wanted to express themselves in an intimate way with another human being as criminals....

How can you possibly connect the two, they are completely different. Smokers have the choice to smoke or not.

ferdi

midget lord wrote:

How can you possibly connect the two, they are completely different. Smokers have the choice to smoke or not.

i'm just pointing out the fact that some laws are stupid, made by people who dont have a clue what they are talking about who are just following the herd mentality.

swiss

Originally posted by Paladin:

Never argue with someone who ignores the very existance of punctuation, capitilisation, grammar, sense and clarity. Its makes reading threads difficult when half the posts are a strain on the interpreting centres of the brain.

For goodness sake Lisa.C (lisa.c), there is little difficult with making english text coherent without earning a Booker prize.

If you have difficulty understanding a post for whatever reason, it is preferable to simply ask the original poster to rephrase in a clearer manner. If the posts are a chronic attack on the English language, then a judicious use of the ignore feature may be in order. Nit picking grammar or punctuation is neither big or clever, and you had better make sure that your own grammar is perfect when you do it.

Having been to Amsterdam I believe that comparing that model for the legalisation of cannabis to the possible reality of another country legalising cannabis is hugely misleading. Whilst it is the only real working model in the first world there are many mitigating factors that impact negatively upon the model.

Accepted. Despite this, it is the only viable model on which we can base any sort of estimate of the effect decriminalisation of cannabis would have on our society. As you yourself have stated Ireland does have self destructive tendencies with alcohol, so I believe it would be reasonable to assume that comparitively more people would also take too much cannabis. Of course, there is no way to know whether this is the case or not, but in the absence of more reliable data, would it not be better to err on the side of caution?

Originally posted by klaz:

Cannabis on its own is perfectly ok. It doesn't make you aggressive like Drink does, nor does it give you a hangover.

I would amend this slightly to say cannabis in moderation on it's own is perfectly okay. The issue as I see it is whether people can be trusted to keep it in moderation.

As I've said before, I have little problem with the health hazards associated with cannabis. If we as a society tolerate people doing untold damage to their lungs with tobacco, and untold damage to their liver with alcohol, it would be highly disingenuous to rail on comparitive health risks with cannabis.

Amsterdam? Love it. Might be the organised crime centre of Europe, but stoners don't cause trouble. Stoners want to have a good buzz and be nice.

If I was walking through a large city at night, I also wouldn't worry about stoners. I would however be wary of other, rather more nefarious criminal elements. I don't mean to be scaremongering but organised crime infers the presence of organised criminals. I'm sure not all of them are stoners.