another 1 gone - Scholes quitting international scene

LegacyUser

England's Paul Scholes has retired from international football to concentrate on his career with Manchester United.
The 29-year-old, who scored 14 goals in 66 appearances for his country, told United's website: "This is a decision I have not taken lightly."

Scholes, who made his international debut in 1997, added: "I have been considering retiring from international football for a while."

The midfielder bows out having scored once in three years for his country.

Scholes hit the net during England's 4-2 win over Croatia at Euro 2004 but he endured a long barren spell before that and there were calls for him to be dropped.

Steven Gerrard of Liverpool and Chelsea's Frank Lampard were both putting pressure on the Manchester United man for his place.

Eriksson's solution in Portugal was to play all three with Scholes on the left but now he has evidently decided to walk away and leave the two younger men to it.

"I started my England career in 1997 and have enjoyed seven years of great football, playing in the best competitions, with some of the best players, under the best managers," said Scholes.

"Euro 2004 was fantastic but afterwards I felt the time was right for myself and my family to make it my last England appearance.

"I would like to thank everyone at England for the wonderful years I had playing for the team and all the experience I gained. I wish them all the best and good luck for the future."

L5

Thats a big suprise

LegacyUser

Ye I know. Huge surprise. I thought it was a joke.

Source is BBC Football btw.

Thinking about it, I can understand it. He was being played out of position for England.

daveg

Jesus thats a big loss for England. Massive shock.

BaZmO*

I was waiting for a "Carlsberg don't do wind ups.........." type thing at the end of the post!

Strange that he decided to quit. Pressure from Fergie??

Although I suppose it'll stop Sven from playing that stupid Diamond formation, well that is of course if he's still there after the latest Svengate saga!

B.

Washout

How much do you think alex ferguson had in this decision? It is a big big shock I mean he has another world cup left in him.

ShriekingSheet

cheesedude wrote:

Thinking about it, I can understand it. He was being played out of position for England.

Na I reckon AF's influence strikes again! Scholes was always 'his boy' and he called him the 'perfect professional' what with managing to be one of the best in the league without attracting media attention a-la Beckham!

Being a Scot Ferguson obviously couldn't give a damn about England, or Ireland in Roy's case. It's a shame they don't have a Scottish international 29 years plus - we could see if Ferguson would deprive his OWN nation of a top player!!!!

PHB

I'd do the same if I was him.
He was forced to play out of position for England and I can't imagine he was enjoying it.
If you think about it he is going into a two year qualification spell and then a campaign, making him 31/32 during the world cup, where he might not even have a place.
I guess he figures he might aswell quit now instead of fighting for a place in the next world cup.

Johnny_the_fox

I have to agree with both 'Out of Position' and 'Alex Ferguson' factors.

Over the last couple of season - Scholes has had a major dip in form for both Club and Country

At Man Utd - with Ferguson playing 1 up front i.e. van Nistelrooy. It is mainly Giggs is playing the ‘Supporting Role’ and not Scholes. Probably because Scholes cant play that role - so he shifted out to the wing at Man Utd. His Best position is in central midfield beside Keane <look at the year they won the treble>.

We all know the story at England… no left footer – so Scholes is shifted out there.

As for the 'Alex Ferguson' factor – As he is Looking to win the league this season.. I wonder how many Wales games Giggs will put out of this season…

Bungalow Bill

Wow that is a shock, well I thought he actually had quite a good Euro 2004 and that he is a more intelligent player than Lampard and Gerrard, so he adds something else to the team.
Personally I would love to see Kieran Dyer maybe get a better chance at International level as I think he is an awesome player.
Here's hoping he's all fired up for United anyway!

gandalf

Definately the hand of Ferguson at work here. We all already know the contempt the man has for International football with Roy Keane and Ireland. Its a shame even though I hated the "Ginger Twat" I would conceed that he was one of United best players and one that always impressed for England. This is another hammer blow for England after the "Sven shagged the secretary"gate over the weekend.

jesus_thats_gre

The final decision was definetly arrived at with Ferguson's help.. Scholes would have been more than aware that questions were been asked about his english performances and that Lampard and Gerard have pretty much established themselves in the centre. He knew he was been played out of position and the position itself was only available because ENgland have no decent left wingers.. If a decent left winger came along, Scholes would have lost his place in the first 11..

Scholes knew this and so did Alex Ferguson. Wouldnt be surprised if AF dropped the old "entend your club career" by quitting from international football.

GuanYin

A big loss for England and a sad loss for international football aswell as he is truely one of the most solid attacking midfielders around.

Probably the best Irishman never to play for Ireland too

kilkennycat2004

The trend of modern day premiership players looking upon international football more as a nuisance than an honour continues it seems. Surely Scholes still had a lot to offer England? Fergie will be pleased:-)

Manchester United star Paul Scholes stunned England on Tuesday by announcing his retirement from international soccer. He said he considered the move "for a while."

The 29-year-old attacking midfielder made his England debut seven years ago, scoring 14 goals and earning 66 caps. He was part of the national team at the recently completed European Championships.

"This is a decision I have not taken lightly," Scholes said in a statement released on Manchester United's Web site. "I have been considering retiring from international football for a while now.

"Euro 2004 was fantastic, but afterwards I felt the time was right for myself and my family to make it my last England appearance.

"I would like to thank everyone at England for the wonderful years I had playing for the team and all the experience I gained. I wish them all the best and good luck for the future."

The move comes with England preparing for its first World Cup 2006 qualifying games in September. England's next game is a friendly against Ukraine on Aug. 18, four days into the new Premier League season.

Long admired by two of the world's top midfielders, Real Madrid's Zinedine Zidane and Arsenal's Patrick Vieira, the redhead was a regular in current coach Sven-Goran Eriksson's squad.

"I am very sorry that Paul has decided to retire from international football," Eriksson said on the FA's Web site. "Paul and I have been speaking about this since Euro 2004, and while he remained a key part of my plans for the England team, I fully respect his decision."

Never one to demand a place in the team, Scholes said before Euro 2004 he would understand if he was replaced by Frank Lampard. When he scored against Croatia in the tournament, it was his first England goal for three years. In the end, both players started in all four of England's games.

He was called into the England squad by Glenn Hoddle in 1997 while just a reserve for United, making his debut as a substitute against South Africa and then scoring on his first start against Italy in Le Tournoi de France.

Scholes was named to England's World Cup 1998 team and bagged a hat-trick in a 3-1 win against Poland in a Euro 2000 qualifier. Another highlight was scoring for England after just three minutes in a 3-2 loss to Portugal at Euro 2000.

He also played in World Cup 2002.

"Paul is a great player who has given so much to England over the last seven years," Eriksson said. "He has a very special talent, and it has been a privilege working so closely with him."

Scholes, married with two children, has long drawn praise for his work ethic. United manager Alex Ferguson has often called Scholes his most valuable player, and Tuesday's announcement should prolong his glittering club career -- which includes 78 goals in 288 league appearances.

"I would like to wish Paul every success in the future with Manchester United," Eriksson said. "He deserves it."

His best season came in 2002-03, when he netted 14 times as United won its eighth Premier League title.

Even though United lost its league title to Arsenal last season, Scholes ended the Gunners' hopes of a treble, scoring in a 1-0 win in the FA Cup semifinals. Three days later, the Gunners were knocked out of the Champions League quarterfinals by Chelsea.

Former United and Northern Ireland great George Best called Scholes "one of the most naturally gifted England players for a long, long time.

"It's a big loss for England, but at the same time, probably a big gain for Man United," Best said. "And being a Man United supporter and being Irish, I'm quite happy."

Northern Ireland is one of the countries in England's World Cup qualifying group.

Dewey

syke wrote:

Probably the best Irishman never to play for Ireland too

true.....very true.lol.

anyway, i couldnt belive it when i heard the news. i think scholes is one of the best attacking midfeilders around and i'm very surprised he has quit.
I think with the papers saying Schole was poor for not scoring in 3 years and then Sven playing him out of position for Euro2004 then i can understand him quitting but it wouldnt surprised me if Fergie had a wee whisper in is ear first.

Huge loss for England.

talla

threads merged

woosaysdan

great news for man united for a great loss for england!!! fergie has to be behind it but the truth will never been known about that!!!

PHB

I don't see how you can say Lampard and Gerrard established themselves in the centre.
During Euro 2004 they never established a strong hold over the middle, and never showed that they deserved the spot.

I still say Sven should have dropped one of the three and put on Dyer on the left, Scholes attacking with Gerrard defending, but it never happened.
Obviously Scholes probably wanted to play in the middle and Sven said it wasn't gona happen, thus he retired.

International football has become a nuisance since he wasn't guarenteed his place why bother?

eirebhoy

PHB wrote:

International football has become a nuisance since he wasn't guarenteed his place why bother?

If everyone had that attitude teams would be lucky to get 11 players to turn up.

BTW, Gerrard isn't a DMC. Championship manager may think so but I would class him and Vieira as MC's thus being partnered with defensive players in Hamann and Gilberto.

PHB

Yeah but of the three of them he is the most defensive minded.

Yeah that would be the case.
International football should be played in the years up to about 28, when it doesn't really effect you that much, but its a career so when it starts to get detrimental to your career its time to say byebye.

Bungalow Bill

Players being apathetic about playing for their country is something I find sickening. Surely this is the greatest honour as a player as a footballer. While I will never be a proffessional, when I was younger that was what everyone really dreamed of, surely.

PHB

Ok look at it this way.
If you are an footballer, and you make 10000 a week
You can't work past age 35, 32 at best.

If you play in international football past about 28 you will damage your chances for playing for an extra three weeks.
You've already played for about 6 years for your country, and now you feel its best to concentrate on your career.

You have to make enough money to live off for the rest of your life.
You've done your "duty" to your country, now its time to be selfish

Big Ears

So you would pick money instead of the chance to be a World Cup winner , something any footballer would trade all the other competitions they've won to do ? .

I supose you think Roy Keane should retire (as a Man Utd fan) , sure isnt club football more important anyway .

eirebhoy

PHB wrote:

Ok look at it this way.
If you are an footballer, and you make 10000 a week
...
You have to make enough money to live off for the rest of your life.

The thing is, Scholes earns £4m a year on wages alone which is more than the vast majority of us would make in a life time. He could retire from professional football now and live happily ever after, so money isn't an issue.

Anyway, I'll never fall for that, an extra 5-10 matches a year will mean your career won't last as long. The only risk your taking is the risk of injury. I'll never understand when people say 3 matches a week will make you tired. George Best said yesterday he would have played every day if given the chance.

He may have wanted more time with his family but we all have to work.

PHB

Well first off if he is making 4mill a year, and only started making that from say 24, and gets it until 32, thats 8*4 = 32mill
24-75ish
800,000 a year

Its a very nice salery but if you have 3 kids and college etc its not perfect to live the wealthy life, while its a ****load, which all of these players want, and so does everyone else. They want more money to pass on to their kids, so that their kids have it easier than they do. They want to get as much money as possible.

5-10 less matches a year.
Most club footballers and coachs seem to think that its determental to their club career and I accept that they are the experts.

So you would pick money instead of the chance to be a World Cup winner , something any footballer would trade all the other competitions they've won to do ? .

Sorry England are going to win the world cup when?
And scholes is even gona be on the team?
Even if it was the case.
What are my choices.
12 million pounds or a world cup winners medal.
12 mill thanks.

I supose you think Roy Keane should retire (as a Man Utd fan) , sure isnt club football more important anyway.

Yep, club before country.
Don't get me wrong I'm a big old Ireland lover, but when it comes to football, I'd rather see Man Utd win the CL than Ireland win the world cup.
Obviously I'd like not to have to pick.

Big Ears

PHB wrote:

.


Sorry England are going to win the world cup when?
And scholes is even gona be on the team?
Even if it was the case.
What are my choices.
12 million pounds or a world cup winners medal.
12 mill thanks.



Yep, club before country.
Don't get me wrong I'm a big old Ireland lover, but when it comes to football, I'd rather see Man Utd win the CL than Ireland win the world cup.
Obviously I'd like not to have to pick.

England winning a World Cup:I dont think so but I think the players do.

Scholes in the team would depend if he could push Lampard or Gerrard out because I dont think he would be played on the left again.
well I would take a World Cup winners medel over 12 million any day , and in Scholes case he already is loaded .

and the last bit I can only answer with : :eek: :mad:

Jivin Turkey

PHB wrote:

I'd rather see Man Utd win the CL than Ireland win the world cup.

Please dont say anymore.

BaZmO*

PHB wrote:

I'd rather see Man Utd win the CL than Ireland win the world cup.

You are joking right?

PHB

Not in the slightest.

I support my club all year round, follow them in every match, and love the team.

Woohoo Ireland wins the world cup, great, I'm all for it.
I'm happy for Duff, Keano, Keane, Given, O Shea, maybe Cunningham.
Rest of the team I couldn't give two ****s about.

I watch it and I support them, but I wouldn't go out of my way to make it to one of their matches.
The football generally isn't as good imo anyway

England winning a World Cup:I dont think so but I think the players do.

Big Ears, you're the one who gave the option, of winning a world cup or getting the money, that was scholesy option. He knows just as much as you do that England ain't gona win it

Big Ears

PHB wrote:

Not in the slightest.

I support my club all year round, follow them in every match, and love the team.

Woohoo Ireland wins the world cup, great, I'm all for it.
I'm happy for Duff, Keano, Keane, Given, O Shea, maybe Cunningham.
Rest of the team I couldn't give two ****s about.

I watch it and I support them, but I wouldn't go out of my way to make it to one of their matches.
The football generally isn't as good imo anyway



Big Ears, you're the one who gave the option, of winning a world cup or getting the money, that was scholesy option. He knows just as much as you do that England ain't gona win it

England would never win a World Cup and Grecce never will and never have won a major tournament ,oh wait :rolleyes:

so you would be happy for individual players but not the whole team or the country itself .

Internationel games are way more exciting , I suppose you're one of the people who want to get rid of the thing permantly .

oh well , you're entitled to you're own idea and opinions .

Davey Devil

PHB wrote:

I'd rather see Man Utd win the CL than Ireland win the world cup.
Obviously I'd like not to have to pick.

I'm glad you don't have the choice son.

I think that's a disgraceful thing to say, I support Villa but if you gave me a choice of them going bankrupt or Ireland winning the World Cup - Ireland for the WC all the way. I've supported Villa for 15 years but never get anywhere near the same feeling watching a Villa game as I do watching a big Ireland game.

I wonder is the anymore football supporters out there that share similar views to PHB?

Jivin Turkey

Davey Devil wrote:

I wonder is the anymore football supporters out there that share similar views to PHB?

I think you left the inverted commas out of supporters.

Big Ears

Jivin Turkey wrote:

I think you left the inverted commas out of supporters.

agreed .

but there is there was a poll a while back called club over country ? (I think) and club won .

BaZmO*

Big Ears wrote:

agreed .

but there is there was a poll a while back called club over country ? (I think) and club won .

Yeah unfortunately Club did win.

Davey Devil

Had a look for the thread couldn't find it, does anyone have a link??

Can't believe anyone would rather watch a club from another country play than support their fellow countrymen. Ireland fans are so well loved around the world due to their their passion and devotion in following their team. I think this is created due us not having their own professional league that everyone felt stronger about supporting the national team. Maybe I was wrong.

Drag00n79

Must admit Im very surprised by the members who would opt for their English club's success over home country success. For what it's worth, I would always want Irish international success above all else — even that of the 'Pool.

Bateman

As shown by the big teams barely turning up in Portugal, we all know that highly paid players no longer give a **** about lining out for their country. It's a sad state of affairs, but thats the way it is. And I don't think I ever saw Scholes singing the anthem when he lined out for England; he was never a die hard. Ferguson will be delighted, no doubt about that.

The Muppet

PHB wrote:

International football has become a nuisance since he wasn't guarenteed his place why bother?

Playing a player Like scholes out of position to make way for Lampard is akin to telling Denis Irwan that he has to prove himself hence Pauls announcement yeaterday. I'm sure Scholes discussed the issues with Fergie before he made his decision but i would be equally sure that the final decision was his own.

BTW isn,t Keano still playing for Ireland or have I missed something.

Bateman

>akin to telling Denis Irwan that he has to prove himself

:rolleyes:

Have to say Mick McCarthie was right on that one.

The Muppet

Bateman wrote:

>akin to telling Denis Irwan that he has to prove himself

:rolleyes:

Have to say Mick McCarthie was right on that one.

Yeah right


I have been looking for a link to poll about club over country but search seems to be fooked as if you want to go any further back than july. But i remember the poll in question quite well and it wasn,t a close run thing either Club came first ahead of country by a mile which was surprising to me at the time.

If I really had to choose I would agree with PHB and the majority of posters here and choose club.

Davey Devil

I personally feel it's a disgrace that anyone could choose a foreign club over their own country. Most people don't even support "their clubs" for any particular reason. The most common reason is "my whole family supports them" or some other bullcrap. So somehow that reason has become more valid than being born and bread in Ireland.

Can someone who decided "their club" over their own country please explain how they have come to their decision because I can't understand how anyone could choose a club.

The Muppet

Davey Devil wrote:

I personally feel it's a disgrace that anyone could choose a foreign club over their own country. Most people don't even support "their clubs" for any particular reason. The most common reason is "my whole family supports them" or some other bullcrap. So somehow that reason has become more valid than being born and bread in Ireland.

Can someone who decided "their club" over their own country please explain how they have come to their decision because I can't understand how anyone could choose a club.

I found this in this in the boards archive . you should sit in a darkened room for while before you read it.

The club over country is a bit of a dilema all right but its only a game its not like we are swearing allegeince to the crown or anything. I have supported Man Utd for over 30 years and own shares in the club so my emotional ties to that club are very strong. I also have emotional ties to the national team but as they don't play week in week out the feelings are not as strong. I would rather not have to choose as there is no real conflict of interest in supporting both but if pushed to a choice I would pick UTD.

Davey Devil

Good find Muppet. Some people earlier on said club won by a mile but according to that country was leading the way by 5 votes.

I think that thread is in a different context too. I think the true test is would you rather see your club win the Champions League or Ireland win the World Cup is a fairer test. This is because of a point made in the other thread that many international matches are meaningless, examples being friendlies and matches against poor opposition. In this way I can understand club football being more attractive, however to chose your foreign club to win the CL over Ireland winning The WC is in my opinion a disgrace.

PHB

A disgrace? wtf like?
This isn't patriot school, it isn't part of our nationality.
I've been born and bred here, big ****ing deal.
It's the same as any other western country and all of them are united under the idea of liberty.
We're western in reality, the only thing that makes us different is the fact we know all about irish history compared to other areas of history.

I support my country to the fullest, and in every single match I will get totally behind them, but if say O'Shea got injured during an Irish match the first thing I would think of is "**** I wonder how long he'll be out for Man U" not Ireland.
Man utd play week in week out and have my support week in week out.
Ireland win the world cup, coolio, might happen in 8 years if all our hot prospects become reallly good players. Not really though.

Man Utd winning the CL, it'll happen again at some point, and I'm rooting for this.
I remember when we won the CL last time, it was one of the best experiences in football ever, I just don't think Ireland can replicate that sorta experience

Jivin Turkey

PHB wrote:

Ireland win the world cup, coolio, might happen in 8 years if all our hot prospects become reallly good players. Not really though.

Man Utd winning the CL, it'll happen again at some point, and I'm rooting for this.
I remember when we won the CL last time, it was one of the best experiences in football ever, I just don't think Ireland can replicate that sorta experience

Glory hunting at its finest.

Ireland mightnt ever win a world cup. United will win another european cup. . Sure they won one only 5 years ago. Thats the entire point. Think how amazing it would be if Ireland won the world cup. The country wouldnt stop for days. On the other hand if united won a champions league you and your few mates will have a good night down the pub, and will have a bit of ammo to fire at rival supporters. WOW deadly!

The Rooster

As Davey Devil said to chose your foreign club to win the CL over Ireland winning The WC is a disgrace. As an Irishman I'm actually embarrassed that there are Irish people out there who feel like PHB does. Its just mad, and there's no use debating it with them. Let them get on with it, and just try not to think about it.

As for Scholesy, I wasnt in the least bit surprised. Over the last number of years he never was able to play as well for England as he does with ManU. To me he didnt seem to have the same drive and enthusiasm - maybe it was down to his position in the team. An interesting point, that I wouldnt necessarily have thought, but is worth highlighting - when English players are asked who is the most skillful player in the England squad, to a man the response is "Scholes".

PHB

Thats crap.

This has nothing to do with patriotism, its all about what would bring you the most happiness.
Man Utd winning brought me a lot of happiness, even if I still watch it today I remember how cool it was.
Ireland winning doesn't bring me that sorta happiness.
I can't imagine Ireland winning the world cup could compare.

Jivin Turkey

PHB wrote:

Thats crap.

This has nothing to do with patriotism, its all about what would bring you the most happiness.
Man Utd winning brought me a lot of happiness, even if I still watch it today I remember how cool it was.
Ireland winning doesn't bring me that sorta happiness.
I can't imagine Ireland winning the world cup could compare.

No that is utter bollox. If United winning the CL would bring you more happiness than Ireland winning the WC you are an idiot in my opinion.

Would you really be more happy having a laugh down the pub with a few mates, or get out on the streets of this country with every other person who lives here and go mad for days?

Big Ears

PHB wrote:

Thats crap.

This has nothing to do with patriotism, its all about what would bring you the most happiness.
Man Utd winning brought me a lot of happiness, even if I still watch it today I remember how cool it was.
Ireland winning doesn't bring me that sorta happiness.
I can't imagine Ireland winning the world cup could compare.

I see so you hate you're country and would rather be from England then Ireland .

The Muppet

The Rooster wrote:

As Davey Devil said to chose your foreign club to win the CL over Ireland winning The WC is a disgrace. As an Irishman I'm actually embarrassed that there are Irish people out there who feel like PHB does. Its just mad, and there's no use debating it with them. Let them get on with it, and just try not to think about it.

As for Scholesy, I wasnt in the least bit surprised. Over the last number of years he never was able to play as well for England as he does with ManU. To me he didnt seem to have the same drive and enthusiasm - maybe it was down to his position in the team. An interesting point, that I wouldnt necessarily have thought, but is worth highlighting - when English players are asked who is the most skillful player in the England squad, to a man the response is "Scholes".

Sorry Rooster and anyone else it applies to but what justification have you for calling Phb a disgrace for expressing his genuinely held opinions. I dont see anything disgraceful with what he is saying , the choice is his to make and the rest of us should accept it.

You say its "mad that anyone should feel like that, Why is it mad? Is your opinion that everyone should support their national team first made on political grounds rather than sporting ones. I know its difficult for some people to differentiat between sport and politics but there are many people that can and so feel able to express opinions such as Phb's.

BaZmO*

PHB, it's as simple as this....

If Manchester Utd. win something, i.e. Premiership, FA Cup, Champions League, etc. a lot of people in "Manchester" come out onto the streets to celebrate that "their" team has won and welcome them back home with whatever trophy they have won.

Now if a country, e.g. Ireland win something, i.e. World Cup or European cup a whole nation comes out to celebrate and the knock on effects of that are immense.

Now are you honestly saying that you would rather have a team that you have absolutely no ties with, from the north of England, win something rather than the country that I assume you were born and live in?

If the answer is yes I really feel sorry for you!!

B.